1/8 Bit Adapters Now Available !

[rjustice]

I have finally got the time to produce and test some high precision 1/8 bit adapters with a few different style of tools. I found that on this small of a shank it wasn't necessary to put a flat on the tools, and didnt use Locktite. If you plan on leaving the tool set up it would be a good idea to use it however.

In the tests performed my machine ran quieter, had less vibration, and I was able to create some very thin text that i couldnt reproduce with the stock carving bit and adapters without much more chipping out. The reduction in vibration is due to holding a much tighter tolerance on the runout of the bore to the taper on the bit adapter. The method used in manufacture guarantees them to be incredibly close... I am checking less than .0002 so far. I also fit the bore to fit standard tooling which is .0002 under nominal. Therefore the setscrews push the tool a very minute amount. Because of this the tools fit very nicely in the adapter.

All adapters have been tested to work correctly in 3 different quick change chucks. The set screws require a smaller Allen wrench, I chose to go this way because the ones in the stock holders broke out on me several times trying to loosen and tighten them. This will eliminate that problem. If you need an allen wrench be sure to let me know.

I have also aquired a batch of long reach ball cutters for experimental purposes. I will sell these out of the stock i have for $25 till they are gone then may have to adjust the cost.


1/8 x .75 flute length with 1/8 shank
1/16 x .5 fute length with 1/8 shank
1/32 x .25 fute length with 1/8 shank

After more testing I will be offering the engraving style tool which is the 1st one on the left in the picture. While I dont have the Centerline option yet, I am pretty confident that we will be able to produce very nice small engraving and text using this style tool.

The others just show dremel bits, and some standard ball cutters, which will be less cost that I can post at a later date. I show these because they really perform much better if you can keep your carving depth shallower. They are considerably more rigid, therfore reducing "flex" and potential breakage.

If you would like better pictures emailed to you let me know. I cant get them uploaded here due to file size restrictions.

Please email me with your order or any questions you may have at cw_parts@yahoo.com

Be sure to include your Mailing address with your order
I will send you an acknowledgement with my PayPal account, and will ship the next business day if you use PayPal.

I prefer PayPal, but will accept Check, or Money order.

Prices are as follows:

High precision 1/8 Bit adapter - $20 ea.
1/8 Long reach ball cutter - $25 ea.
1/16 Long reach ball cutter - $25 ea.
1/32 Long reach ball cutter - $30 ea. (only 6 tools in stock)
Allen Wrench - $3 ea.

Shipping - UPS ground - $11 total anywhere in Continental USA.
Shipping international - quoted

More goodies are in the works, such as:

3/16, 3/8, 4mm, and 6mm adapters
An "emergency" solid chuck
Cool tool for removing the chuck.

Thanks everyone for your interest !!!
Ron

[rjustice]

I added a buy it now auction on Ebay but at a little higher price to cover the Ebay charges. If anyone is interested and would rather go that route, Click HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320120081879&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=011)...

Thanks,

Ron

[Dirtydan]

I added a buy it now auction on Ebay but at a little higher price to cover the Ebay charges. If anyone is interested and would rather go that route, Click HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320120081879&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=011)...

Thanks,

Ron

Interesting for sure, but for the price, the shipping should be FREE :rolleyes:

Any idea what the various bit cost? I got a nice set of 10 1/8" router bits from WoodCraft here in Huntington Beach, Ca. to use with my WEcheer High-Torque Carver/Engraver for $55. There good to 25,000 RPM, but I'm not sure if they would last to long based on the CarveWright/CompuCarve feed rate... Might end up eating bits...

Just had another thought, This sure would be nice if you could carve down to the 1/32 or 1/64 level of detail, but I'm not sure there are any bits at that small of detail, plus, if it can't be programmed into the CarveWright/CompuCarve program, the machine will think it's still carving with the standard carving bit.. Don't think you'd end-up with what you wanted.

[rjustice]

Dan,

I appreciate your thoughts on the price. I had a hard time trying to figure out what to charge. Especially with the price you can get standards for from Sears or CW. Here is the dilemma - They are importing them, they have made thousands of them, they are made from soft material (thats why you get a one with each tool you buy), and while i may have an isolated incident, I have holders that run out as much as .005. (There is an aftermarket manufacturer of the 1/16 carving bit that has apparently refused to sell adapters with their tools due to this). I simply could not compete with overseas mass production in terms of cost, but I can offer excellent quality, and give our carving community something to experiment with that you can't get elsewhere at this time...

The way i came up with shipping was to contact a shipping company, and see what the wost case was that they would charge to pack and ship anywhere in the US, and they gave me the $11...

What you are getting for the money...

1) Material is prehard 4140 (at 28 Rc). You might look at your holders you've been using and see if there are dimples on the edge of the groove and the taper where the balls inside the QC grip the adapter, or wear spots on the taper itself. My theory is that the holder isn't be held as securely once there is a a wear situation. This would allow for possibly more run-out etc. I'm pretty sure thats why you get a new one with each bit.

2) High precision - Produced in small batches therefore individually inspected, the way i chose to produce these, it is pretty much impossible to get the kind of run-out that i found with my stock adapters. I have checked the run-out on every part when i set the job up, and had near zero run out checking them with a .0001 graduated indicator... as i got them up and running I checked every few parts, and they were less than .0002. Every part has been checked to work properly in a QC chuck.

3) Re-Usable - Honestly, you probably don't need more than a couple of these. Change the tools out. If you get to the point where you have 2 or 3 tools you like to keep set-up to avoid the hassle of changing them all the time, weigh out the hassle factor v/s cost. What is your time worth?... Once I have messed with it for 20 minutes, I should have bought a new one... (thats at $60 per hour as posted by many as their shop rates)

4) While I am not responsible for the decision you make in terms of Loctite, I ran many tests without loctiting the screws in. This was based on the fact that I went with a screw with a smaller Allen wrench hole. You can really get these tight without stripping out the hex. Therefore making it possible to change bits out without the hassle of heating up the part, getting out the loctite and reapplying etc. Like I said before, If you are going to leave a tool set up, it is a good idea to use it!

5) You are getting options to experiment, and try other tooling options that you can't currently configure properly. I tried some of the "bushings" and "sleeves" to run tests with some Dremel bits. This didn't work at all... When the machine spun up, it was louder, indicating a whipping of the tool, the run-out was terrible, and it just snapped the bits off. I couldn't even get a decent test.

6) If you compare the cost of their "bit & holder" combination I am pretty close to the $40 bucks they charge.

7) There are charges from PayPal, and Ebay... that come out of the price (I know, not your problem, but I had to consider it in the decision of the price)

8) A true user of the machine spending countless hours working on this, trying to improve it for everyone.

9) Made in USA...

As far as the tooling options. The experimental tools are actually designed for machines running 30K RMP spindles. They have a coating on them to resist wear, and as stated before are "experimental"

- I buried the 1/8 .625 deep in a pine carving with no problem. Left a very clean cut.
- I buried the 1/16 .5 deep, again in pine, it cut for about 10 passes and the chips packed up in the cut, and broke. I suspect that if i had air blowing on the bit to clear the chips it would have worked.
- I went down to .3 with a new 1/16 tool in pine with no problem. It cut cleaner, and didn't chip standing text that was pretty small. I went back to the standard carving bit, and tried the same carving, it chipped out about 60% of the lettering.
- Addressing the smaller tool issue - I can get cutters down to .003 in diameter LOL... but you are right, without control of the machine feed rates, and resolution we will probably never be able to use anything like that.

What I am excited about is the project I am working on. I have a job pending for making a boat load of door tags for an industrial building. They are the 2 color plastic laminate. I need to use a pretty small cutter to get some of the small text they want. These will cut very shallow (.04 deep)... so i can easily use a standard stubby 1/32 tool with no problem. I will be cutting in vector mode, so should work great! I can also go to a tapered, engraving type tool, which is the first one on the left in the picture, and get any effect I want. I make these tools.

I really hope this address any concerns... I am truly not trying to gouge anyone. If I charged a $60 shop rate, and counted my R&D, and setup time, materials, etc.... these should cost twice this amount. I am just trying to help our carving community expand their abilities..

Please feel free to ask any other questions!!!

Happy Carving!

Ron

[liquidguitars]

my bad :rolleyes: your 1/8 bit holder looks good, how about .022 fret cutter :)

[rjustice]

my bad :rolleyes: your 1/8 bit holder looks good, how about .022 fret cutter :)

I can fix you up!

How many do you want ?
How deep do they need to cut ?
What is your tolerance on the .022 ?

Ron

[Dirtydan]

Ron,

I didn't put 2 and 2 together and come up with the fact you were making the adapters. Guess I should go to bed earlier so my brain (what's little left of it) would be a little clearer. :rolleyes: Hmmmmmm sounds like a good idea, huh?

Considering all the R&D you've done as well as the material used, the cost is not that much...

My main concern was the programming of the CarveWright to use the smaller bits. Path and depth feed control could be a problem as you stated.

Best of luck with the adapters and bits as well as the door tags. I really want something that works well for small lettering... You might have the answer to my problem... Hope so.... keep up the good work.

[eagle1]

Ron,
Thanks for offering these bits & adapters. The pictures you sent cleared up any confusion I had. I am looking forward to using them on the centerline text projects.


keep up the good work

Dean :p

[rjustice]

Dan,
I am running out of time to produce samples for the plant i am working with so it shouldnt be long before i can post some pictures of what the new bits can do. I am anxious to get a resolution for my situation.

Dean,
Glad you could see the details in the emailed pictures...

Thank you both for your encouragement

Ron

[Aaron B]

My main concern was the programming of the CarveWright to use the smaller bits. Path and depth feed control could be a problem as you stated.


That's what I was wondering as well. Since the bits are not in the Designer "list" how would we know which one to pick.

[rjustice]

Aaron,
The 1/16 and 1/8 are in the bit list on the machine. I posted somewhere that the 1/8 tool cut .625 without a problem in a raster cut mode... and the 1/16 cut .3 without breaking ... I tried at .5 and it broke, but i think it was due to getting packed with chips in the cut.

I have tried the engraving bit in wood using vector cuts and it works fine... the thing to keep in mind is that the smaller the tool the shallower it will need to cut (unless it is a tapered tool). I will post my experiences once i have some solid data.

Ron

[Dirtydan]

Ron,

Is the 1/16th bit tappered like the carving bit that comes with the machine?

I've had problems with through holes and carving recesses. The holes and recesses always end up tappered. Nothing like what I thought I was going to get... If the cut is all the way through, I just use the cutting bit, but if you want to clear an area at say .25 deep, you have to do a cut at .25 and then repeat the same pattern using the Carve Region to clear the area... Even with that the bottom surface always seems to be slanted one way or the other...over to the orginal cut pattern at .25. I believe the reason is because the carving bit is tappered. Dose your 1/16 shank carving bit have a tapper to it?

[rjustice]

Dan,
No, both of the bits i have are NOT tapered they are straight. if you are shooting for straight sidewalls and a flat bottom perhaps going to a flat bottom tool would be a better option to finish the sidewalls. I can get you something to try if you are interested.

Ron

[rjustice]

my bad :rolleyes: your 1/8 bit holder looks good, how about .022 fret cutter :)


I can fix you up!

How many do you want ?
How deep do they need to cut ?
What is your tolerance on the .022 ?

Ron

LG... Ok drumroll.... see picture below.... here is a .021 flat bottom cutter all mounted up in a shiny new precision adapter with a new allen wrench all ready to go for you... :D :D

Pretty enticing, huh !!!.... LOL

Ron

[liquidguitars]

I need to go about a .186 deep , I have not programmed the ease in and out "radius arch" so it straight through the fingerboard :mad:
will it hold up ?

LG

[rjustice]

Oh sure, bust my bubble!..

This tool wont go this deep.... I'm sure you will have to do multiple depth of cuts to keep from snapping one that long right off. I think you could bury this one and it would hold up. It is about .08 of flute length.

I will do some more checking...

Ron

[liquidguitars]

Hi Ron,
I am using a 1/8 v bit to scribe the frets slots and then take a small dovetail saw to finish the groves, setting the depth to .187 the CW cuts the groves in one pass but still needs cleanup along the sides. :)


LG

[Gman_Ind]

http://www.copycarver.com/images/guitar%20carving%200.JPGLiquid,
Are you making new designs or reproducing existing designs? I have been thinking of using the CC/CW for the master and reproducing with something else this photo reminded me of what you might be doing.


(http://www.copycarver.com/images/guitar%20carving%200.JPG)

[rjustice]

LG,

What if you took this tool as deep as it will go since you are finishing out by hand anyway. This would leave you a very clean surface and straight wall as a guide... ???

I checked the flute length, and it measures .075

I can order a longer flute length but that is what i have at this time.

Ron

[liquidguitars]

[QUOTE=Gman_Ind;24594]http://www.copycarver.com/images/guitar%20carving%200.JPGLiquid,
Are you making new designs or reproducing existing designs? I have been thinking of using the CC/CW for the master and reproducing with something else this photo reminded me of what you might be doing.



Mostly just in Designer and not much scanning or master parts are needed. This gives the freedom of making changes on the fly, I am happy to say that the CW is working out as a good design tool.

LG

[rjustice]

Just wanted to let everyone know that i went ahead and added a "black oxide" coating to the 1/8 adapters to give them a nice finished look that will resist rust from handling them, and moisture in your shop.

Thanks to those that have ordered. And yes, yours have the coating and you should see them before the end of the day friday.

Please let me know what you think once you have tried them out. Good or bad... (as if you wouldn't anyway LOL) ;)

Ron

[Gman_Ind]

I received your note Ron, very professional. I like the way you conduct your self, I would recommend you to anyone, and I haven't even received the adapter yet. :cool:

[eagle1]

Ron,
I am looking forward to receiving my order.
Like Gman-Ind said " very professional. I like the way you conduct your self......" I second this motion....

Dean

[rjustice]

Thanks for the kind words guys...

I edited the first post to include a 1/32 x .25 flute ball cutter. I only have 6 in stock. I realize that the machine doesnt have this as a tool selection, but it can be ran in place of the carving tool, or vector cutting.

I mentioned above that these are "experimental" tools. Keep in mind that i have not tested the small tool yet. Another forum member is asking about cutting foam, and i am sure it will do this with no problem. I am guessing in wood, we will have to be around a .125 depth max with this tool based on the performance of the 1/16 that I tested. Blowing air right at the tool flutes will probably be necessary, just to keep them from packing with sawdust, causing the tool to just snap off..

If you have any questions feel free to contact me cw_parts@yahoo.com

Thanks,

Ron

[eagle1]

Received my bits and adapters today and your work is just unbelievable. it is very professional. The smoothness of the 1/8" adapters is remarkable. I am going to try out the different Dremel bits I have. Thanks Ron and keep up the great work. This is a nice addition to the CW and it's made in AMERICA !!!!:D

[murph]

Please let us know what Dremil bits give good results, This could lead to even more detailed carvings.

[rjustice]

I just had my first report of breaking a 1/16 tool. Please note the following:

These tools are fragile. I am thinking it may be mandatory to run an air blow on the flutes of the cutter. again, this is to keep the sawdust from packing into the flutes. It would be like trying to carve something with a wooden dowel at that point if you can picture that...

I would also suggest starting shallow. I have almost 3 hours of carve time on the 1/16 tool but it was limited to .3 deep.... maybe start off even shallower to do some testing before you push it...

The 1/32 ... HMMM... im not sure about this one. I really believe it will work in the foam application that Bob Hill is working on, but use really light depths until we get some control over the feeds and speeds from CW...

Let me know how things are going...

Thanks,

Ron

[Gman_Ind]

Mine came in today as well and as I expected it beat my machine here so I only gave it a look and I like it, very well made. I better clean my bit shaft up this is such a precise fit any dirt or burrs might cause it to be too tight. I mean that as a compliment, nicely done!
I happened to notice the 1/8 cutout tool from a Dremel fits nicely in the new adapter, I might have an emergency 1/8 cutting bit, actually 10 I by them in packs. Just to clarify, I mean the cutting bit not the drywall cutting one with the pilot for cutting out electrical wall boxes. two potential issues,
1. its long length might break too easy,
2. it is a down cut and might pack in chips during a pocket cut.
I sure wish I had a machine to try it out on! I miss that noisy gal.
I am wishing I had the buy three for $1519 each deal.

[rjustice]

Gman_ind,
Actually you are correct these are fit very closely to the actual tool shank size. This may sound a little wierd, but it is a very good idea to blow the hole out in the adapter before trying to slide it in. Then, if you place the tool in with the flutes first from the back of the adapter, it actually goes in easier. Most every tool i checked was very slightly smaller towards the flutes.
I have posted a couple other places that it will be necessary to blow air at the flutes of the small tools to keep chips from packing, and breaking the bit. Until we have better feedback, I think it would be a good idea to limit your depth in one shot to .3 with the 1/16 tool.
The flutes should actually be a right hand spiral, therefore an "upcut" style. A good way to affirm this would be to twist the bit in a clockwise direction looking down on it, with the ball end down. Watch the flutes to see if it looks like they would auger the material up or down. Please double check the tool and let me know if it isnt. The ones i have left are definately upcut.

Does anyone have any feedback yet good, bad or ugly?

Thanks,

Ron

[Gman_Ind]

I tried the 1/8 adapter with my dremel tool 60 degree v bit and it cut very clean, no chipping this time.
The cutout tool is originally from the Roto zip drywall tool, Dremel made knock offs I guess. These large bits are defiantly down cut to blow the drywall into the wall not up at the operator.

[rjustice]

Mike,
Ok, I think I know what is going on now... the bits you are talking about are ones that you had, not ones that I sent you, is that correct?..

Ron

[Gman_Ind]

Ron your correct, I have my own bits. I have not tried the Rotozip bits yet , I am getting caught up on some signs.

[rjustice]

A few updates after getting feedback from users, for those that have ordered the experimental long reach ball cutters from me.

I have had several people let me know that the following depths for these tools are working, using air blow at the cutter...

1/8 - .6 deep
1/16 - .3 deep
1/32 - .05 deep

Note that you can go deeper because of the reach of the tool, but you will have to do it in multiple passes.

As for more info - I now have a solution for the chuck removal tools.
If anyone is interested, I will be able to start shipping in about a week. Cost of $26 will include the square tool (see picture), and a thin wrench to remove the Quickchuck from your machine. Simply slip the tool into a 7/16 socket and you are ready to go. Note that your parts will be Black Oxide coated just like the 1/8 bit adapters to prevent rust.

I had a request to offer a spare screw kit, as there has been some dropped and lost while putting on the Loctite. These were designed for the 1/8 adapters, but do fit the standard 1/4 adapter you received with your machine. I have personally had the hex break out of a couple from the 1/4 adapters, so i went to a slightly smaller hex. These seem to be much more robust. It does require a different Allen wrench. The kit includes two screws and is $5. The Allen wrench to fit is $3

1/8 precision bit adapter - $20
Allen wrench to fit - $3
Spare screw kit - $5
Quickchuck removal tools - $26
1/8 long reach ball cutter - $25
1/16 long reach ball cutter - $25
1/32 long reach ball cutter - $30

Shipping is Priority Mail USPS, Insured - it will remain at $11 and I can add anything else to your order for no additional shipping charges.

If you cut and paste the list above into an Email to cw_parts@yahoo.com with the quantities that you would like of each, I will send you a PayPal invoice.

Thanks for your interest!

Ron

PS... website coming soon.

[liquidguitars]

High Precision 1/8 bit adapters from Ron are the best thing out now for smaller 1/8 cutters. I am using 2 in production now and will be getting 2 more. Nice work Ron! 8)

LG

[Dale in Anaheim]

I realize this is an old thread, but I just found it.

Call me dense but how do these bits work on the compucarve? What do I tell the machine I am using for a bit size on the 1/32 or do I just select the 1/16 and let her rip?

Can someone elaborate on this in some detail for me because there seems to be something I am missing here.

Dale

[swhitney]

Yep.. Let her rip... a bit of a lie... tell the machine you are using whatever, but remeber to put what ya want in the chuck....

[rjustice]

Dale,

swhitney is correct. You can tell the machine to use the 1/16 carving ball. It will simply give you a sharper detail in the deepest depths of the carving, and you will have detail that is slightly larger at the tops. Sometimes this can be the difference between seeing chipping on small text, or having it work nicely.


Ron

[Fireman Phil]

Has anyone tried carving in Corian with a 1/32" bit? What do you think Ron? I need to carve .12" deep into Corian. The standard 1/16" carving bit does not give me the desired results I need for small carvings (3"x4"x.12").

[Gman_Ind]

I tried the small vee from Ron and it performs well. Another good product from Rjustice.

[bdehoyos]

Has anyone tried carving in Corian with a 1/32" bit? What do you think Ron? I need to carve .12" deep into Corian. The standard 1/16" carving bit does not give me the desired results I need for small carvings (3"x4"x.12").

Did you try the 1/32 on corian? Did you get a better results?

Thanks

[Fireman24]

I am still fairly new to this all but I am learning all the time.
I see other people on here seem to get bits (router, cutting, fine detail and now 1/32 bits) and they are not from CW. I am wondering if anyone can give me information on what kind of bits they are using that are compatible with CW machine and where I can get them, otherwise I will have to get them from CW directly. The 1/32 bit sounds awesome since I have some intricate designs that I work with and carve. Any help out there for a newbie?
Thanks in advance

[Amonaug]

I have to question the 1/32" bit idea as the programming in Designer and the machine logic only has a 1/16" resolution. A finer bit won't help if the program can't make use of it correct?

[bdehoyos]

I have to question the 1/32" bit idea as the programming in Designer and the machine logic only has a 1/16" resolution. A finer bit won't help if the program can't make use of it correct?

I’m not so sure about that, if the probe has a resolution of .005” I would think that the carving process is the same.

Meaning that the raster process sould start at about 1/32 from the pattern edge, then continue in increments ( I’m guessing of .005 at best)

So by using a 1/32 you should only loose a 1/32 at the edge

I don’t know it’s just a guess