Watch out!!! when warranty runs out

[fozziebo]

Speaking to techs at CW, they seemed delighted to inform me that the cost to repair this machine is $70.00 an hour plus parts out of warranty. No chance for extended warranty and tack on shipping charges both ways as well. With all the trouble reported on this forum, is anyone at least nervous about the cost of ownership once Carvewright starts charging us for their flawed merchandise?
I love what my machine can do, but have seen too much trouble to justify any more out of pocket expenses in the future. I will be selling my machine and buy back a new one later on....trying to keep one in warranty if I can. The costs to repair this thing can easily set back the home "hobbyist" types!

[Jeff_Birt]

No, I'm not really surprised that they would charge someone parts, labor and shipping on an out of warrenty repair. If I take my car to the garage, or have the HVAC guy come over to my house both will be delighted to charge me too ;) .

[VtBlues]

I agree that CW has the right to charge for out of warranty repairs. But, they also have a lot of problems with their machines failing as often as not. This all can't be user errors as a lot of the people on here seem to be pretty knowledgeable about machinery in general. If GM has a design problem or defective parts, they issue a recall and fix it free of charge regardless of warranty. CW should adopt a similar approach or I belive they are going to see a lot of people that are willing to give the machine a chance and work thru the bugs under warranty that will unload their machines due to the expense of keeping them running. I'm sure that those people also will be very vocal about the problems they had and the response from the company. CW has a potential goldmine with this machine but needs to increase the robustness and reliability of their design/machine. Even goldmines can play out and dry up. For a machine with this price point aimed at a hobby user market these machines have way to short mean time to fail to continue on like this. Getting long winded here. Sure charge for repairs out of warranty but make a machine that can run for more than a week without breaking.

[Julie Coffey]

I'm not taking sides here either way but I recently had a plumber out to install a new hot water tank $45.00 an hour, last year I had someone out to work on a hot tub $75.00+ an hour. And just got through paying a lawyer for the probate work on my moms estate - you don't even want to know.

And speaking of computers- my son had an issue with his new laptop took it back to Best Buy and the geek squad charges an arm and a bloody leg. He never thought to ask me if I could fix it (which I did) he's now mowing my yard for a month in exchange.

It's my wish that the machines output will be equal to or better then the cost of eventually having it serviced. So far both Barb and I have been fortunate.

Julie

[VtBlues]

How long did your hot water tank and hot tub run till it had to be replaced/repaired? Can't afford a hot tub but my water heater has been working beautifully for over 20 years with no service. My CC has been giving me one kind of grief or another since day one. Some of it you can work around, which I don't mind but there is a lot of room for improvement. Figure a couple hours per repair and probably a 100 total shipping both ways and then parts, coupled with a short mean time to fail and it wouldn't take long for repairs to be more than the cost of a new unit.

[CallNeg151]

Personally, I'm hoping that Sears techs will be fully trained at some time in the future, since taking the unit into Sears for me would eliminate the shipping charge.

Several of the people who are discussing their operation costs factor in the cost of complete replacement after 200 hours.

What I would like to see priced is a piece of replacement hardware-only with out-of-warranty core exchange. The way I see it is that a good chunk of the price you pay for your CW/CC is the cost of software. We are licensed in perpetuity for software, so why buy it again? Likewise, some of the stuff in the box, such as the card and card-reader are not all that likely to fail compared to the mechanical bits.

So, I would love to see CW offer a discounted non-retail boxed replacement CW (possibly rebuilt but under full warranty) without an additional software license (I don't need to run the program on 4, 6, 8 computers, etc.), without the card reader or memory card (I can always buy extra if I want), and with a discount for sending in the out-of-warranty unit. This would help keep customer loyalty, and increase the pool of rebuild parts.

[VtBlues]

CALLNEG151 makes a valid point but I doubt that the software is that substantial to the total cost. The real issue, to me, is that CW has some real design and quality issues that they are going to have to correct if they are going to really live up to the potential of this machine.

[rjustice]

I am with CallNeg151.... I had discussed the same point of view with a friend last week... I think this is a perfect solution. I would be willing to go with a "refurbished" unit that was under full 200 hrs warranty. Perhaps $250-$400 with your rebuildable core as an exchange. ????

Something certainly needs suggested!

My 2 cents...

Ron

[liquidguitars]

How long did your hot water tank and hot tub run till it had to be replaced/repaired? Can't afford a hot tub but my water heater has been working beautifully for over 20 years with no service.

I changed a few parts on the old Hot water tank... Parts 12.94 labor priceless. Overall looks like the unit can be worked on at home to save a few bucks and you can save shipping costs but it's not for everyone. ;)
LG

[MarkJamesDesign]

I agree that CW has the right to charge for out of warranty repairs. But, they also have a lot of problems with their machines failing as often as not. This all can't be user errors as a lot of the people on here seem to be pretty knowledgeable about machinery in general.

I beleive that LHR has sold between 5000 to 6000 units in 2006 and I have only seen about 30 or 40 folks on this forum with major or semi-major problems and I think many of those have beta units. Last I heard LHR had a return number of less than 100 units. Even if that number was doubled that would only be a 4 percent fail rate. Hardly sounds like "...their machines failing as often as not." I have worked in retail management and I can tell you that every retail store has a back room full of customer returns due to damages or product failure. It's simply a part of manufacturing that every company has to endure. I have a friend with a large bents & dents liquidation biz and he buys factory return tools, furniture and appliances by the tractor trailer load at .15 to .25 cents on the dollar.

With the exception of a sticky chuck (which LHR replaced in 3 days, no questions asked) I have not had any of the problems posted here. I price my work in accordance with the cost of owning & operating this machine, fully aware that I may have to replace it at my expense when the warranty expires. The machine may not be perfect, but let's not paint a bleaker image than actually exsists.

Just my rant, I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if you need.

Jim

[pkunk]

I'm with you Jim. I've probably had more that my share of machine problems, but I kind of expected them as a Beta tester. On the other hand, in the past year I've logged 145hrs and scan time too. Much of it on paying jobs. I've rebuilt my machine many times, & that will only make the product better. Complaints are inevitable but we do have more than our share of whiners here.

[cajunpen]

PKUNK AND JIM - I really don't want to get involved in this debate, but it's hard for me as purely a hobbyist not to say anything. Before I start, I have no personal issue with LHR and have had absolutely no major problem with my CW.

Like you pkunk, I am a beta tester, having bought my machine about the same time that you did. Unfortunately (and I know that this is my fault and certainly not LHR's) I only have about 40 hours of carve time on my machine. I am out of warranty now - and even though I don't have a problem - it sounds like it's just a matter of time. I do not have the luxury of having clientele that will pay me for carving - I do it for self satisfaction and carve for family and friends.

When I bought the machine I did it with the intention of it being something to add to my hobby. It's nice for you guys that are making money on your machines to say that we complain too much. In fact pkunk, I think I recall a post saying that you earned enough to pay for your machine on your first couple of jobs - that is good indeed for you. But please keep in mind that some of us are digging into our pockets (or will be soon) to pay for repairs. We have the right to be concerned and yes, even complain sometimes. I agree, some of the people have a tendency to go overboard with the complaining - but I have not been one of them. Had I known what I know now, I would not have spent the money on the CW - I would have waited for all the problems to be worked out.

I feel that LHR should extend the warranty (at least the labor charges) for ALL machines until they get the bugs worked out. I think that they owe us consumers that much. LHR has been wonderful with all of their support and service. I only hope that that will continue now that some of the original machines are running out of warranty. They owe that to people - they should continue this service until such time as they get the product to work "as advertised" for a reasonable amount of time. I know that they can't offer an indefinite warranty, nor should they. But they should at least provide a dependable product.

PKUNK AND JIM - I really don't want to get involved in this debate, but it's hard for me as purely a hobbyist not to say anything. Before I start, I have no personal issue with LHR and have had absolutely no major problem with my CW.

Like you pkunk, I am a beta tester, having bought my machine about the same time that you did. Unfortunately (and I know that this is my fault and not LHR's) I only have about 40 hours of carve time on my machine. I am out of warranty now - and even though I don't have a problem - it sounds like it's just a matter of time. I do not have the luxury of having clientele that will pay me for carving - I do it for self satisfaction and carve for family and friends. This is not your fault, but please understand our (those of us that are purely hobbyist) concerns.

When I bought the machine I did it with the intention of it being something to add to my hobby. It's nice for you guys that are making money on your machines to say that we complain too much. In fact pkunk, I think I recall a post saying that you earned enough to pay for your machine on your first couple of jobs - that is good indeed for you. But please keep in mind that some of us are digging into our pockets to pay for repairs and consequently have the right to be concerned and yes, even complain sometimes. If we did not use the Forum to voice our concerns, where would you guys suggest that we post them? I agree, some of the people have a tendency to go overboard with the complaining - but I have not been one of them. Had I known what I know now, I would not have spent the money on the CW - I would have waited for all the problems to be worked out.

I feel that LHR should extend the warranty (at least the labor charges) for ALL machines until they get the bugs worked out. LHR has been wonderful with all of their support and service. I only hope that they will continue now that some of the original machines are running out of warranty. They owe that to people - they should continue this service until such time as they get the product to work "as advertised" for a reasonable amount of time. I know that they can't offer an indefinite warranty, nor should they. But they should at least provide a dependable product.

As stated in an earlier reply in this thread - Julie's hot water heater and hot tub broke and had to have repairs and she was charged for the repairs. She insinuated that we were silly and didn't understand the basic concept of paying for repairs! Would she have felt the same way if she had to have the hot water heater repaired after every few showers - or the hot tub repaired after every few hours in it? I suspect that she would have been complaining (and rightfully so) to the manufacturers about the inferior product. Everyone on this Forum understands that we have to pay for service on products in our homes that break - but how many would pay for repairs on an Air Condition Unit that broke every few weeks, without voicing a complaint?

It might also interest everyone to know that the software updates are FREE for only the first year - after that you will probably be charged for any fixes/updates in the software - which will mean digging into our pockets to feed our hobby even further.

Hopefully one of the moderators will forward this thread to LHR and let them read what their customers are thinking and saying. I honestly feel that LHR will eventually do the right thing and offer support until all the bugs are ironed out and the machine is working reliably.

[IM2HAPPI]

I have been down for 2 weeks waiting for sandpaper rollers ( traction belt). I ordered extras but who knows when they will be in. Im outta here for 3 weeks now so it doesnt even matter. The mushrooms are growing. Be back in 3 maybe 4 weeks. Take Care all.

Im still 2Happi with my CC

[Semper Fi]

I'm sorry, but when I spend @ $2000 for a new device that doesn't run more than 2 or 3 hours without an error, I don't call it whining, I call it a valid concern. I also don't call it whining when I can't have a parts diagram or wiring diagram for a machine that only the naive think won't 'need hands' on pampering for its lifetime, based on its initial track record. As far as the number of machines that LHR has received back for service, how many times have you worked on the machine, with the Tech's instructions, without sending it back? I have done this easily 6 or 7 times, and for different problems. I understand the need to charge for factory service after warranty time is up, but alternatives should be there for those of us who were good enough to service the machine under warranty for LHR, so as to keep their shipping costs down, and hopefuly down time to a minimum.

That being said, I really like my machine and having quit smoking over 27 years ago, I figure if I junk my machine, I'm still way ahead of the game. But, the problem still remains, we are hostage to LHR until something is done about the service issues. I have never bought a Craftsman machine before that didn't have a parts catalog and parts available for it. Loyalty is a two way street.

IMHO,
Ernie

[dukecreek]

[QUOTE=CallNeg151;22305] Personally, I'm hoping that Sears techs will be fully trained at some time in the future, since taking the unit into Sears for me would eliminate the shipping charge.


Having been a Service Technician with a major soft drink company for many years and working on vending machines, postmix dispensers, bill validators and coin mechs, I find the Carvewright very user friendly when it comes to repairs. I have repaired my machine 4 different times. I can easily envision a day or two of classroom instructiion and the Sears Technicians would be fully trained in the complete repair of this unit. This is not "brain surgery", only a matter of changing or cleaning the part that is causing the problem. The Caravewright is much simpler in design and easier to work on than my Kenmore washing machine Perhaps even a couple dvd's/videos for the Sears people to look at would solve the problem.

In my book, the support techs at CW get a standing ovation. Most repairs are handled over the phone by talking the everyday hobbist through a procedure that cures the problem.

Hats off to everybody in Texas

[JOHNB]

I'm with you Jim. I've probably had more that my share of machine problems, but I kind of expected them as a Beta tester. On the other hand, in the past year I've logged 145hrs and scan time too. Much of it on paying jobs. I've rebuilt my machine many times, & that will only make the product better. Complaints are inevitable but we do have more than our share of whiners here.

"WHINER"= (1) 40 HRS. OR LESS OF CARVE TIME (2) NOT MAKING MONEY WITH MACHINE (3) LOSING MONEY FROM DAMAGED WOOD (4) BROKEN BITS (5) 2 OR MORE MACHINES IN AS MANY MONTHS (6) 2 OR MORE REPAIRS IN 1 MONTH

"NON-WHINER"= (1) 40 HRS. OR MORE OF CARVE TIME (2) MAKING MONEY WITH MACHINE (3) CARVING BEAUTIFUL PATTERNS AND DESIGNS THAT WILL TAKE YOUR BREATH AWAY (4) 1 MACHINE (5) MINIMAL BREAKDOWNS (6) MAKING MONEY WITH MACHINE
MY 2nd MACHINE IN 4 MONTHS IN TEXAS NOW. 1st MACHINE HAD ONE TRIP TO TEXAS, 2nd TRIP WENT BACK TO SEARS. I SURELY DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR REPAIRS LIKE THIS , HECK THE SHIPPING ALONE WOULD BREAK MY BANK ACCOUNT FROM VA. I AM A WHINER. W.T.F.
WE ALL KNOW THE MACHINE IS ABSOLUTLY AMAZING WHEN WORKING RIGHT.
PLEASE PK DON'T TELL ME NOT TO BUY THE MACHINE IF I AM NOT HAPPY WITH IT AS ONE DAY I HOPE TO BECOME A "NON-WHINER".
I HAVE A DREAM THAT ONE DAY WE ALL WILL BECOME A "NON-WHINER" AND WHEN THAT DAY HAPPENS THERE WILL BE NO MORE BICKERING ON THIS FORUM . I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT DAY

[Jeff_Birt]

This thread has gone WAY off track so I am closing it. The point is that this machine is like any other. Most work just fine, some have problems. Most problems are caused by users (myself included). It would be silly of me or any other user to expect free service or free software upgrades for life. I got my first machine in late November 2006 from Sears and had about EVERY problem that has been discussed on this board talked to CW a few times and decided to exchange it for another. I have had ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NO problems with the second (other than operator error).

Have we found that there were some week points in manufacture and/or design, Yes. Has CW been working to remedy these issuses, Yes. As a matter of fact it impresses me how responsive CW is to their customers. I've had the oppertunity to work with many business' over the years and you just don't find that alot. Does it mean that they are perfect,No; it just shows that they are commited to improving and serving their customers.

We hear 10x more from folks with problems (probably because they are trying to figure out what to do), than people who's machine is working fine. Constructive criticism is a good thing, it helps us become better users and LHR become better engineers. Destructive criticism is just that, destructive or non-productive, which could also be called whining, if what your saying has no constructive purpose than don't say it! Take a look at the thread RC Woodworks started called "You just have to laugh'. It is a really good example of folks engaged in Contructive criticism concerming the CCM message poppping up.

So let's get back to carving....