Artcam to .ptn?

[ljdm]

Anybody have a way to use Artcam .rlf or .stl files in Designer? I can do it the long way (not best results, either), by saving as .bmp or .jpg, and importing into Designer, but that's not best. Any ideas appreciated.

[Sarge]

The files in designer are stl. You should be able to "Import" the stl files directly into Patterns. Right click on Favorites, then import. I'm not saying this is gospel, but should work.

[HandTurnedMaple]

Um Sarge, Designer patterns are ptns.

[tbroeski]

It would be great if we could import stl files directly. I was told they are working on the "professional" software that will allow this, but haven't heard anything as to exactly when. (was to be "sometime soon" several months ago).
T

[ljdm]

Over at the ArtCamPro forum, one of the reps suggested creating the model in Artcam, then saving as 16 bit greyscale image file and using that. Going to try it today. Also, it's on the wishlist for them to create output to .ptn files. Hopefully, it will happen, better if it happens in the near future. I really like the FaceWizard, makes pretty good images for carving, once you get the hang of the program. Let you know if I come up with a work-around for this in the meantime.

[Greybeard]

Over at the ArtCamPro forum, one of the reps suggested creating the model in Artcam, then saving as 16 bit greyscale image file and using that......

Perhaps someone should point out to the Artcam rep that Designer only imports the greyscale image as an 8-bit, not a 16 bit. Perhaps he will know the difference.
Whatever software you use to produce your image with, it must come in via the import process.

You can use Designer, or you can import 8 bit greyscale images as .png or .jpg or .bmp.

Or you can buy images from VectorArt who produce compatible files.

That's it.
The rest is wishfull thinking till the CW team produce new software.
John

[Kenm810]

This might be where some of the confusion
with Artcam to .ptn and STL files may have come from.

[Sarge]

Okay guys,
I'm having crow for breakfast today. I don't know where the stl thing came from. I know they're ptn's, just didn't register. Maybe I was having a brain dead moment. Something just broke and I had one of those moments. :? :?

[Kenm810]

Sarge,

Don't let anyone tell it's because of your hat!
I,ve got a couple just like it, maybe a little older,
and I'm sure there's few others out there that have them too.

[liquidguitars]

Perhaps someone should point out to the Artcam rep that Designer only imports the greyscale image as an 8-bit, not a 16 bit.

Not sure about this, as Designer also imports the 32 bit PNGs using alpha masking.” This will auto remove the image background." for us. :rolleyes:

Lig

[Greybeard]

Not sure about this, as Designer also imports the 32 bit PNGs using alpha masking.” This will auto remove the image background." for us. :rolleyes:
Lig

The cw can carve to a maximum depth of 1".
It's best resolution for that depth is 0.004".
8 bits contains 256 possible levels of grey, from black to white.
256 x 0.004 = 1.024"

IMHO any more information is redundant.

John

[Jon Jantz]

Mr. Greybeard, I think you hit the nail right on the head.

[Matty]

After creating you model in Artcam, “ Create Grayscale From Relief” This is done from the Model option. Then under the relief option you save as a .bmp and then you can import the bmp to the Cartwright software. Works great do it all the time.

Matty

[liquidguitars]

The cw can carve to a maximum depth of 1".
It's best resolution for that depth is 0.004".
8 bits contains 256 possible levels of grey, from black to white.
256 x 0.004 = 1.024"

IMHO any more information is redundant.

Sorry,this is an over simplification and some what misleading statement in the way designer interpolates information.

Lig

[Sarge]

Sorry,this is an over simplification and some what misleading statement in the way designer interpolates information.

Lig

LG............ for some of us (me included) the simpler the better!!

[ljdm]

After creating you model in Artcam, “ Create Grayscale From Relief” This is done from the Model option. Then under the relief option you save as a .bmp and then you can import the bmp to the Cartwright software. Works great do it all the time.

Matty

Does that method work the same with Facewizard? I like the ability to sculpt, smooth, etc to make photos carve more realistic.

[Greybeard]

Sorry,this is an over simplification and some what misleading statement in the way designer interpolates information.

Lig

Hi Lig.

Why an "over" simplification ? In my experience simplification is generally a good thing, hence my use of the word "redundant" meaning not necessary for understanding.

Why "misleading" ? Who is likely to be misled, and in what direction ?

How many of the users of this machine are likely to need the knowledge of "the way Designer interpolates information" ?

I'm sorry to be pedantic, but do you mean "interprets information"?
I for one certainly don't need it in order to import images, even with its present limited scope.

If you do mean "interpolates", then you've lost me. I'm not familiar with the use of the word in this context, only in the expansion of compressed files to add averaged data.

Regards
John

[BobHill]

John,

I think the confusion to some may lay in the fact that 2D resolution only needs the pixels to be determined (size), but in 3D you need both depth (which you gave) and travel, which is also to be considered, thus to say that the 256 steps covers resolution of 1.024" isn't really saying that's a pixel per inch as one would think in terms of inkjet/laser printing.

Bob

[sk8nmike]

I know this doesn't follow the thread (you can shoot me later), but how many of you use Artcam? I called for info and was told that the price was $8700. Did I call the wrong place?

[HandTurnedMaple]

That's about the right price. It is designed for other CNCs that do not have built in processors, and for 3D work from CAD files. It has a plethera of other uses as well. It is way overpowered if the only thing you want/need it for is the CW.

I don't want anyone to think I'm putting ArtCam down, I think its an excellent piece of software and does what it does very well. I just don't think its a match for people who only use the CarveWright/CompuCarve.

[Bill]

The price is correct.

It is way overpowered if the only thing you want/need it for is the CW
I agree with HTM, you can purchase a lot of art work from http://www.vectorart3d.com/
for that amount of $$$$

[Greybeard]

Hi Lig, Thanks for the PM but I'm not sure how sending a dictionary definition of "interpolation" helps. I'm trying to work in the context of the original thread, and I have yet seen no reason to change my mind over the idea that as Designer only imports an 8bit greyscale image, trying to import a 16bit file is a pointless exercise.

Hi Bob.
I have a picture in my mind of what happens, and I'll try a slightly different approach to explain that to other interested readers, and hopefully clarify the discussion.

Hi everyone.
An 8bit greyscale image contains 256 possible shades of grey from black to white, so if you import that image type into Designer, it's quite happy to convert those shades of grey into 256 different depths.

Now sending a data file into most cnc machines, you would need to tell it the location of X and Y for each of the different Z (depth) values that you had given it. Give it, just for example, an 8bit value for X, Y, and Z, and you need to use a 24bit file type in order to locate the three dimensions.
But with Designer it doesn't need to be given the larger bit size to tell it where each of those depth points are located, because it can extract the individual values of X and Y, the location of each separate spot of grey in the image from the very fact that it is an image. It will read the file in such a way that it generates the X and Y values itself, adding that information to the depth data.
This is why you can only import certain file types. Why, for example you can't import a vector image which might look very similar on the screen, but contains the data in quite a different form.

So if you want to use your favourite software, and it produces 16bit greyscale, with presumably 65,000 or so different shades of grey, fine. Just be aware that Designer will simplify it to 256 in its own way, and you will not be controlling how it does it.

Note that I haven't mentioned the resolution of the image - the number of pixels on screen or dots on your printer- as this has nothing to do with the present discussion. If you have a 72 dpi or 300 dpi image, you can still use an 8bit greyscale to file it.

Please let me know, either here or we'll start a new thread, if you would like me to explain anything that is not clear - it may help others as well.

More importantly, please tell me if I have got it wrong, and how it should be.
Regards to all,
John

[Jon Jantz]

Greybeard, I agree with your theory 100%. I would like to see it explained clearly how a 16 bit grayscale could increase the accuracy of the machine.

Like you said, the way Designer interprets grayscale bitmaps, different shades of gray only affect the Z travel of the machine or in other words the DEPTH. If the machine only has a Z accuracy of .004 inch, again like you said, there are 250 steps the machine can carve in 1". I assume it actually probably does have the 256 levels, and when worked out and rounded off, they call it .004 in. accuracy.

So what possible good could it do to have all those shades of gray in between the 256 steps the machine is capable of? It will simply take the different shades of gray that fall in those ranges and round them off to the 256 steps, leaving you with the exact same carving as the 8 bit grayscale would have.

I don't know what interpolation could possible have to do with it... if it's limited to 256 steps, no amount of trying to trick the machine is going to make it carve more accurately.

Ok, now someone convince me differently.... :)

[mtylerfl]

That's about the right price. It is designed for other CNCs that do not have built in processors, and for 3D work from CAD files. It has a plethera of other uses as well. It is way overpowered if the only thing you want/need it for is the CW.

I don't want anyone to think I'm putting ArtCam down, I think its an excellent piece of software and does what it does very well. I just don't think its a match for people who only use the CarveWright/CompuCarve.

Hello,

You mentioned that ArtCam is overpowered if all we need it for is for the CW. Do you have any suggestions for alternative software that would allow us to create professional quality models/patterns for use with the CW?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[MarkJamesDesign]

I'm gonna let you guys in on a little secret. There is an application called bitcam that I stumbled on that shows some potential. It is used primarily for making 3D jewelery molds I think. You can find it at bitcam.com. Their site and usage terms were a little hard to understand and the software is even more difficult to figure out. I downloaded the full 2007 gold version thinking it was a demo and when I emailed the company to inquire about a license or pricing I got a very rude response in broken english (HQ is in Spain) telling me the software was not available for download or trial. They never did tell me what to do to obtain the rights or pricing. My download version works everytime I open it and it has a manual (although vague) included. I guess the real benefit of a licensed version would be tech support because this thing is hard to figure out, but with a little trail and error I'm getting better.

Basically what this application does is import a bitmap into a mesh grid and allows you to transform height and smoothness of different areas by selecting them by color. Once you have made the image into a 3D model, you can export as a grayscale. It is not easy to navigate this program but I think with a lot of practice it could be used to create 3D files for the CW.

One Note: I have found that you cannot bring in a very large bitmap or the app will crash...at least it does on my system. It does not seem to support large files more than 300dpi by 300dpi. Download and try at your own risk.

http://www.bitcam.com/download.htm

[HandTurnedMaple]

Hello,

You mentioned that ArtCam is overpowered if all we need it for is for the CW. Do you have any suggestions for alternative software that would allow us to create professional quality models/patterns for use with the CW?

Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm quite happy with CorelDraw using Jon Jantz's logo tutorial as a starting point and then experimenting on my own. I have even had some limited success of converting photographs with this method (but its labor intensive and I gave up on photo carvings a long time ago).

But look into this thread about ArtCam Pro. http://carvewright.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2328&highlight=artcam

JamesB is a former employee of Delcam, the developers of ArtCam, and is currently a partner in VA3D. His statement about using ArtCam only for greyscale (as is the limit for CW work) only being a small part of what ArtCam is capable of is right on the nose. Spending $7500 on software where you can only use $250 of it doesn't make much sense to me personally. That kind of money saved could offset alot of design hours using CorelDraw and other graphics software.

If $7500 on software is in your price range, then I would start exploring $15,000 CNCs that offer more features and capabilies than the $1700 CompuCarve does.

[mtylerfl]

I'm quite happy with CorelDraw using Jon Jantz's logo tutorial as a starting point and then experimenting on my own. I have even had some limited success of converting photographs with this method (but its labor intensive and I gave up on photo carvings a long time ago).

...Spending $7500 on software where you can only use $250 of it doesn't make much sense to me personally. That kind of money saved could offset alot of design hours using CorelDraw and other graphics software.

If $7500 on software is in your price range, then I would start exploring $15,000 CNCs that offer more features and capabilies than the $1700 CompuCarve does.

Hello,

Yes, I have used CorelDraw for, I think, 20 years (since version 1.1 anyway) and it is a wonderful program. It is indeed useful to an extent for creating patterns. It all depends on what one is wanting to create. Signs, lettering, logos, and not-too-complex shapes are easily done with CorelDraw and Corel PhotoPaint.

I think many of us are searching for a software program that the user can more or less "sculpt" freeform shapes, curves, flourishes, objects, and so on, in a 3D environment (I guess it's more accurate to say 2 1/2 D). Also, since the CW software is not compatible (yet) with standard "3D" file formats, it is important that the software can export a high quality greyscale image that accurately represents the model's features for our carving purposes.

I have had rather good results with the tedious procedure of manually creating somewhat complex models in CorelDraw, editing in Corel PhotoPaint, still other editing in Ulead PhotoImpact, and some further tweaking/editing in the Designer software Pattern Editor.

With so many steps to yield the desired result, I feel there must be a better way. Does anyone know of a better software solution to what we have to do now to create original, workable patterns?

Perhaps the upcoming "advanced" version of the Designer software will offer features that make modeling easier. I am eagerly awaiting its release. Last I heard, CW is shooting for making it available this summer.

[dougmsbbs]

I may have an answer pretty soon. I have not been on the forums much the last two weeks because I'm writing a program that does about what you are talking about.
It takes a photo and allows you to set the depths of different parts of it. You tell it what sections are background, foreground, etc, and it outputs a grayscale image to take into designer. I also have it import a OBJ file from Wavefront, because it's an easy format to import. Free programs are available to convert DXF to OBJ, so thats not a problem.
It's hard to describe how it works, but I'm writting it because I need this myself. Trust me, it's designed to get stuff into designer the way we all know it 'could' be done.
My only worry is that I'm wasting my time. I wonder if Designer won't have all this in it before I even get it done. Any thoughts?


Mtylerfl:
With so many steps to yield the desired result, I feel there must be a better way. Does anyone know of a better software solution to what we have to do now to create original, workable patterns?

[Greybeard]

.........With so many steps to yield the desired result, I feel there must be a better way. Does anyone know of a better software solution to what we have to do now to create original, workable patterns?

I'm beginning to the think the simplest answer would be to learn to draw over again, with pencil and paper, but most importantly, shading in a new way, to indicate height, not lighting.
Then use a scanner.
John

[mtylerfl]

I may have an answer pretty soon. I have not been on the forums much the last two weeks because I'm writing a program that does about what you are talking about.
It takes a photo and allows you to set the depths of different parts of it. You tell it what sections are background, foreground, etc, and it outputs a grayscale image to take into designer. I also have it import a OBJ file from Wavefront, because it's an easy format to import. Free programs are available to convert DXF to OBJ, so thats not a problem.
It's hard to describe how it works, but I'm writting it because I need this myself. Trust me, it's designed to get stuff into designer the way we all know it 'could' be done.
My only worry is that I'm wasting my time. I wonder if Designer won't have all this in it before I even get it done. Any thoughts?

Hello dougmsbbs,

What you are working on sounds good. Although my personal interest is not necessarily in photo manipulation. However, I can imagine it could be useful for creating/manipulating freely-drawn patterns as well (animals, fleurs, scrolls, etc.)

Nobody knows exactly what features will be working or even available for the "advanced" version of Designer (probably not even CW at this point).

If you need a Beta tester, lemme know!