Rotary Jig newbie - Several Questions

[Underdog]

I've been out of the loop for quite some time, so hopefully y'all will be patient with me as I ask some noob questions.

A new rotary jig and 2" long x 1/8" carving bit was delivered to the doorstep today.


How do I register the license for the rotary jig?
I have upgraded Designer to handle 2" depth, but I can't remember which replacement chuck and collet I bought for my older machine.

Will this 2" bit work with any of the chucks?
*EDIT* - I see now that I have the Rock Chuck. - Not sure what collet I bought though.


I saw this rotary jig advertised on Facebook, and in the ad, it was mentioned that all you had to do was scan an object with your phone, import it into the program and then carve.

Does LHR provide a phone app for this?
If not, what app would you recommend?
Is it really that easy? (I can't imagine that it is.)


Failing being able to scan one or two into the program, does anyone have a 3D file of a comfort bird?

I want to carve 4 at a time and save myself a little hand carving time.



Thanks for any and all help.

[Underdog]

Ok. Question #1 and #3 are answered.


Apparently, there were some wires crossed and they didn't update the licenses. That's been taken care of now.
still unanswered.I have upgraded Designer to handle 2" depth, but I can't remember which replacement chuck and collet I bought for my older machine.

Will this 2" bit work with any of the chucks?
*EDIT* - I see now that I have the Rock Chuck. - Not sure what collet I bought though.


Also I got an answer to this question: Apple created EM3D app to utilize Face Id technology, and one can use that to scan in 3D faces. I'm wondering if it will also scan other 3d Models?
Anyone have a full 3d sparrow model?

[oscarl48]

I don't have the rotary jig so can't help with that but the newer iPhone have LIDAR and you can scan 3d objects with it. I have an older iPhone so haven't used it yet so don't what kind of resolution you get.

You can also try photogrammetry. There are free programs to try it with.

[Underdog]

Thanks Oscar.
Unfortunately I only have a second generation SE, so...
Photogrammetry?
Hmmm.. I'll have to look that up.
Failing that, I can always cut one of my comfort birds in half and use the scanning probe on each half.
Hmmmmm... Can you use the scanning probe on a rotary model?

[oscarl48]

Might not be perfect but here is a pattern for a two piece carve. Some gluing and sanding would be required.

[oscarl48]

I've never carved a comfort bird so want to try making a couple. Modeled a quick version of a tufted titmouse. One of the local birds that are a favorite of my wife's and mine.

I've not carved this model so don't know if there are any issues with it.

P.S. Don't carve. I did a test carve and the tuft was too shallow. Playing with the model now.

[oscarl48]

cleaned up the model a bit more. Much happier with the carving. Carved in hard maple.

[Mugsowner]

We don't have many if any of this type of bird flying around here. However it looks great, good job Oscar

[want2b]

Don't have them here either but it looks a lot like a cardinal except for the double 'tuft'. Thinking about trying a double sided carve and making a tree ornament.

[Underdog]

89170

Here are four birds I've hand-carved recently (and sanded and finished!)
Note that I couldn't hold the birds exactly on their side AND take the picture at the same time , so their positioning is only approximate. The black rectangles represent a dowel and 2 end pieces.
I usually make these from 2" x 2" x 5" blanks, and they turn out to be anywhere from 4.25-4.75 long x 1.5-1.75 tall x 1.5-1.75 wide.

What I'd like to do is carve these on the rotary jig four at a time as laid out above so as to maximize wood usage - Beak to tail axially, and back to back radially - as shown in the picture. Make sense?
I've got a lathe in my shop, so creating 3-4" diameter blanks isn't a problem at all.

QUESTIONS:

Scanning:


Do you think these could be fastened to a dowel* in this layout, and then mounted in the rotary axis and scanned as a complete model? (*as shown by the black rectangle lines)
Alternately, if I cut one in half, or make one with a paper glue joint in the center, can a flat scan be done for each half, and the resulting half models merged/spliced together into one piece in the STL slicer?


Carving:


Do you think this model would work as a rotary carving?
Or do you think this would be better as a two sided flat carve in 3" thick material?

[oscarl48]

Again don't have the rotary attachment but don't see any technical issue stopping you from carving them. You will have to tweak the design a tiny bit. Since its on a rotary system you will have a common center of rotation so the starting point and ending point have to be on same center line.

Hopefully someone with the attachment can pipe in.

[want2b]

Sorry I can't help with answers but those are absolutely awesome. Just the thought of them being hand carved really blows my mind. Hope you can get things worked out so the carver helps. There is a carving group on facebook where you may get more help, most of us using the forum are non-facebook users but willing to share whatever we can to help.

[Underdog]

Thanks want2b. I've probably carved a hundred or so of these by now.

I'm hoping some of the old-timers are still around and can help with this.

[Underdog]

Hey Oscar,

If I split a comfort bird and do a flat scan of each half, is there a way to merge those together to make one model?

[oscarl48]

Yes, and for most 3d software you only need one half as long as they are symmetrical. In the software you can mirror the other half.

[Underdog]

I don't want to just mirror two halves, I want to merge it into one STL file so I can just pull the whole thing into the rotary project multiple times.

[oscarl48]

lol. That's what I meant. You can mirror one half for the other side and have one object you can then export as an stl. As long as symmetrical. You can merge any 3d object together.

[Underdog]

What if I don't want it to be exactly symmetrical?

[oscarl48]

Then you do need both sides. In most 3d software you have a boolean join command to merge them into one object and then be able to export as an stl.

[Underdog]

I don't suppose Designer or STL slicer will do that.

If I scan both halves in the Carvewright, can I export them to some other software and join them up?

[oscarl48]

There is also the possibility of tweaking the model in the 3d software to alter the symmetry. There are probably dozens of different ways to do it.

In my meantime here is another quick model for you to play with to get your methodology/process down. It would be cool if you could figure out how to scan your own model.

I don't have the rotary so don't know how the whole process of getting it into a pattern works.

[oscarl48]

Missed the post while posting my post. lol

I don't know how to do it with designer or the stl slicer. Since I don't have the rotary never tried.

Blender is free and can easily join the two sides together and also export as stl.

P.S. I just opened Designer and all the rotary functions are greyed out for me so no way for me to play with it.

[want2b]

Interesting conversation between 2 who speak the same language. It gives me a clue of the different levels within the 3d design world. Thank you for what you share with us.
I really liked the Titmouse that Oscar made and did a two sided carve using a scrap piece of 2x4 on normal carve looking to possibly make ornaments with better wood. Haven't done any sanding/finish work on it. Attached is the result, not the quality that Underdog does and wants to carve, but I may do some Xmas ornaments for the family. When you get this figured out please post a pic of the result.

[Underdog]

Cool.

Bergerud says merging two halves can be done with Pattern Editor and STL Slicer in the thread linked below. Not sure I completely understand how he did it yet. I need to familiarize myself to the software again.
Scanning for Rotary Carving (carvewright.com) (https://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?25731-Scanning-for-Rotary-Carving&highlight=rotary+flat)

[Underdog]

Yeah, that softer wood tends to tear out and have stray fibers everywhere doesn't it?
:D
For what it is, that carve is not bad. But it's gonna take a lot of elbow grease to sand it smooth, yes?

Gotta get you some some hard maple or cherry.

[oscarl48]

Nice and actually since it is soft wood sanding should be fairly quick. Takes a lot longer to sand hard woods.

[oscarl48]

I am trying to figure out how Dan did it but I keep hitting the no rotary jig software wall. So can it be done? Dan showed it can, I just don't know how he did it without me owning the software.

But joining two halves of a model can also be done with 3rd party software. The learning curve on all the 3d modeling packages I use is pretty steep.

It would be easier in Designer though if you can figure it out.

[want2b]

Got the hard woods, just wanted to see what one would look like and scrap 2x4 is a cheap way to make a sample. Wife immediately said Xmas ornament when she saw it . Never learn to keep some things to myself, now have another honeydo. Sounds like there is a way to do what you need, good luck.

[Underdog]

That STL file bird is pretty nice. Thanks so much!
I might even be able to use it if I can figure out how to properly import it into the Rotary file. It keeps wanting to slice it. I'll review the tutorial and maybe it'll help.
Meanwhile do you think you could make one where the tail was at this angle using the outline from the birds in these pix? (Sorry about the shadows.)

8917589176

[oscarl48]

Yes, I'll make one but I'm curious if it will work on a rotary because in my head it won't work. It is rotating around a common center. You can't do undercuts on the same cutting plane.

For anyone without the stl addon, here is the grey scale height map pattern.

[oscarl48]

Here you go. Let us know what you learn. :cool:

[oscarl48]

I did the quick model while I was waiting for my carve to finish.

I frustrate myself a lot sometimes. Guess what I just carved. Carved them out of a beautiful chunk of cherry. The carvings came out great. Now can everyone see how I royally messed up. lol

I am going to turn on some soothing music and have a nice adult beverage.

https://forum.carvewright.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down/https://www.routerforums.com/attachments/window-png.405981/

[Underdog]

Awesome!
Looks like it will work with some tweaking.
I still have to review the tutorial, but I kind of figured out how to get this thing into the rotary project.
I need to make the center axis thingy bigger.

89181

[Underdog]

Thanks for those STL models. They look great.
I have the 3D package, but haven't really used it. I'm used to ArtCAM and Aspire products.

Can you give me a quick rundown of how you achieved these models?

[oscarl48]

lol. I used metaball modeling to make the base mesh and then digital sculpting to tweak the shape.

You have nurb modeling (CAD), poly modeling (polygonal modeling of 3d art software) and you have the granddaddy metaball modeling which was created in the early 1980's for Carl Sagan's Cosmo series.

[fwharris]

I did the quick model while I was waiting for my carve to finish.

I frustrate myself a lot sometimes. Guess what I just carved. Carved them out of a beautiful chunk of cherry. The carvings came out great. Now can everyone see how I royally messed up. lol

I am going to turn on some soothing music and have a nice adult beverage.

https://forum.carvewright.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down/https://www.routerforums.com/attachments/window-png.405981/

Used the same side? Glad to see you and Jim working this out.. I pointed him to you as a possible source for making the bird STL

[oscarl48]

I sure did. Newbie mistake from an old guy.

[Underdog]

I can get the model into the rotary file, and I can adjust the depth and percentage, but I can't seem to resize the width of the pattern to fit the 2" diameter. It's stuck on the 4-1/4" diameter width @13.359".
I can't type in a new number and have it stick, nor can I drag the yellow handle back to the edge of the unwrapped model on the left.
Any idea on how to get it "unstuck"?89182

[want2b]

Don't have any rotary experience but when I see the yellow number it means I've got a 'locked' dimension. Right click on the yellow number and at the top select ' remove attachment' which hopefully will allow you to change the number. Hope this helps.

[oscarl48]

test carved the model. Really happy with the pattern. Hard maple and mahogany. Using up some hardwood scraps.

[Underdog]

Don't have any rotary experience but when I see the yellow number it means I've got a 'locked' dimension. Right click on the yellow number and at the top select ' remove attachment' which hopefully will allow you to change the number. Hope this helps.

Thanks so much! That did the trick. It was driving me mad...

[Underdog]

test carved the model. Really happy with the pattern. Hard maple and mahogany. Using up some hardwood scraps.

Nice! Was that a solid model import with a 2 side carve? Or was it a two piece, two side carve?

[oscarl48]

I took the stl into the stl importer and split it down the middle and did a two piece carve which I glued back together.

Sorry you had asked what I used to make the models. It was Blender3d.

I also use Zbrush and 3d Coat. All poly modeling software and not CAD.

For CAD, I have Fusion 360 (hobby), VCarve Pro, and Georotic Vexx, though I primarily use the poly modeling software. You lose precision but you gain freedom and speed.

[Underdog]

Is it possible to do a two sided carve of a one piece model?

[oscarl48]

Yes, just add the pattern on both sides of the board and use the auto align to make sure they line up.

[Underdog]

But that would be a half pattern on each side of the board, right?

Or are you saying it would be a whole pattern placed twice?

[oscarl48]

Right, half pattern on either side.

https://support.carvewright.com/two-sided-carve-techniques/

[Underdog]

Hey Oscar,
I tried PMing you, but your mailbox is full so I'm rattling on over here....

I'm trying to find a sign tutorial that I saw several years ago.
The guy made really nice wedding gift - Family Established (date) signs with the last name in the background and first names layered on top. He got really spectacular results. And he posted a step by step tutorial that I should have bookmarked but didn't.
Have any idea how I might find that tutorial again?

Thanks!

[oscarl48]

I guess its time clean up my mailbox.

The only folks that I remember doing those types of carves was rmock. I don't remember seeing any tutorials so it might have been someone else. I'll do a quick search after dinner.

[oscarl48]

Did a quick search and didn't find much on the forum but did find this on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeJ9ybT-zsU

[want2b]

I make a plaque that gets good reviews from recipients using layers of different woods for the contrast. Attached a pic of one.

[Mugsowner]

Great work Want2be, I have never done one liket, but I really like them and they do draw attention. Not sure, but it also sounds like Underdog is looking for, not sure, but that's what I got out of his post.

[oscarl48]

Nice!

The part I always forget and have to play with each time is setting up the textured background. I use clip inclusive after grouping the texture separately from the rest of the elements.

[want2b]

That is an awesome layout, definitely a complex design. My plaque is very basic using several carves and wood inlays. Wasn't sure if it works for what Underdog needs. If anyone is interested I will post the steps and some MPC's showing how it works.

[Underdog]

Yep. That's the one.
Seems like there was a post somewhere on the forum.

Nice job on the signs guys.

I want to make one something like this:

89186

[Mugsowner]

Great work guys, and I think that Underdog is looking for just what you guys are doing.

[want2b]

First I decide on the size needed to fit the names. Last name length, number of letters impacts, along with the first names impact what the final carve will look like. This creates the final carve length and height of the carve region they will fit inside.. I then make a separate carve with just a carve region 1/4 in deep that is slightly smaller or the same size as the carve region in the final carve.
I select the different woods to create the contrast desired. Example oak main board, mahogany last name and poplar first names.
Run the carve of the carve region only on the oak board. I plane the mahogany and poplar to 1/8 inch thick, they have to be larger than the carve region in the oak board. I cut them to fit snuggly in the carve region and glue them in as laminates, mahogany on the oak, poplar on top. Then I run the final carve which cuts the laminates out using the depths set and the final carve region to eliminate most of the laminates.
Basically 2 carves with the woodworking in between to create the contrast. Your choices of contrast are wide open, been thinking about some purple heart in the mix.
Not the best at writing procedures, let me know if anything needs clarification

[Underdog]

That made sense. I never thought of doing that.
I've seen the V-Carve way of doing it, but never tried it.

Hey where do you get the backgrounds or similar that the wedding sign guy had in his tutorial?

[oscarl48]

If you are talking about the texture background, Designer has a few built in but they are just another pattern so you can use anything. I have shared a bunch on here.

As to where I get them, I make my own. There are some in the store as well.

[Underdog]

you know what?
I don't think I've ever used the pattern editor...
Is that the one where you take a black and white image and create patterns just from the values?

[oscarl48]

It can be used for that. It can also be used to clean up patterns that are brought into designer.

[oscarl48]

I just read Designer 3-4 can create background textures natively. I use Designer 2 so no idea how its done.

[Underdog]

Really?! That's cool.
Do you have a link to where you read that?

Speaking of Background, I was just rewatching Ken's video tutorial and taking notes... but I never saw if he turned off Feather or turned on Draft for the background rectangle.
Any clue?

[oscarl48]

https://www.carvewright.com/designer-compare/


(https://www.carvewright.com/designer-compare/)The default in Designer 2 is no feather or draft. They can be added though if needed. Again don't have 3 or 4 to look at.