Big problem here

[Shacky]

I only have time to carve in the winter months and am getting a late start. I sent in my machine last summer for LHR to do a major service. Repair and replace anything they see that seems like a good idea as well as all available upgrades.

When I got it back, I did one small project as a test and everything seemed fine. Now, I am ready to make some signs and have a big problem.

Everything starts up OK and it starts carving the sign and then I can hear it start to struggle to spin and then it slows down and stops spinning. This happens after a couple minutes. The machine continues to go back and forth as if it is carving, but whatever bit is in is stationary. When I open the lid, I try to spin it by hand to see if anything is catching or binding and it seems to spin freely.

Any tips on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

[fwharris]

First thing I would check would be the motor brushes.

[bergerud]

Surely the motor brushes cannot be worn out if LHR just checked out the machine. A brush could, I suppose, be stuck. My bet would be a poor connector. Have you run the cut motor test?

[Shacky]

83336 Would that have been these brushes or are these for the xyz motor? (I got all this done, plus the upgrade package.)

[Shacky]

Doesn't the Cut Motor Test, just switch the motor on? It works during board setup and it works at the very beginning of the project. Then it just bogs down and quits.

[fwharris]

It does show they installed new brushes. Yes the cut motor test just turns on the motor. Worth doing to see if it bogs down with out and load (no cutting) on it.

[bergerud]

Doesn't the Cut Motor Test, just switch the motor on? ... Then it just bogs down and quits.

Yes. Run it and see if it bogs down and quits. It is an easier and safer way to trouble shoot than running a project. Maybe you can hit it and it will start running again!

[Shacky]

OK, I'll try it and report back.

[Shacky]

I ran the cut motor test twice, letting it run for several minutes. The motor runs fine and never bogs down. But, I do hear a bit of a cycle of it running faster and slower. It's still running high speed the whole time, but it's not completely steady, kind of like the sound when someone is using a carpet vacuum cleaner.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sounds like a problem with the X Termination board... Broken C1 Capacitor.

OR a brush seating problem.... Brush sticking in the holder.

The C1 may be glued NOW but since it is a older machine the damage may have been done before the Service glue job...

AL

[bergerud]

Mine does that too. Spins full speed and does fluctuate a bit. I would say it is not the motor. Maybe the speed controller (X termination board). Try to carve again, maybe the bugs worked out.

[Shacky]

I'll examine the board, especially the capacitor. I'm not too optimistic on it working itself out as it only did one small project well and has bogged down on the next two. I may not get to examine the board until tonight or tomorrow, but I'll post back. Very grateful for your assistance, gentlemen.

[Shacky]

833408334183342
I took out the board. The capacitor looks fine, but those resistors look pretty suspect! Agree?

[bergerud]

The resistors may be ok. Check the solders on the other side. I think the capacitor and the big resistors have to do with handling the back emf when the motor shuts off. Your problem seems more like speed control which is in the chips. Too bad you do not have another X termination board to swap in as a test.

[Shacky]

The solder connections look ok to me. I checked the resistance across them. Not sure what I'm looking for. You can see I set the ohm meter at 20k.
BTW, before I even touched the board, I inspected and made sure that the wire connections were all good and tight. Also, no corrosion inside either side of the connectors.
8334383344

[bergerud]

With all the plugs removed from the board, I got 47.2k ohms for R3 and 100.2 ohms for R2. (I suppose that if you got a much a higher resistance it could mean the resistor is blown.)

[Shacky]

I don't do a lot of this. What setting do you use on the ohm meter?

[bergerud]

My ohm meter is fancy with self setting ranges. You need to set your meter to a range number larger than what you hope to measure. 200k range for R3 and 200 range for R2 should be good.

[Shacky]

Thanks. Will do.

My ohm meter is fancy with self setting ranges. You need to set your meter to a range number larger than what you hope to measure. 200k range for R3 and 200 range for R2 should be good.

[Shacky]

46.7 on R3 and 00.0 on R2 on the 200k setting . .09 on R2 when I switched to the 20k range.

[bergerud]

R3 agrees but R2 should be 100 (on the 200 range).

[Shacky]

Guess I'll order a new board tomorrow. I could replace just the resistor, but I might as well replace the whole thing.

[bergerud]

I do not think it is the resistor. If that resistor was blown, the cut motor would keep running and not stop. The X termination board, however, could still be the problem. (I hate to see you buy one and have it not be the problem.)

[Shacky]

Anything else you think I should test before I do?

[bergerud]

I do not know. Without being able to swap parts, it is hard.

I would try a few more simple carves and if the behavior is consistent, buy a new X termination board.

If the behavior is erratic, it could be something else like a poor connection in the motor.

It is a tough one.

[Shacky]

Thanks so much for the help on this! I think I will order a board in the morning and see if that fixes it. It seems likely and if not, at least that will be ruled out. I'll post back when I install it. Again, thanks for the help. Over the years, this forum has proven invaluable to me with so many members who are willing to give of their time and knowledge.

[Shacky]

83417 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18dVF2S25mck40N2s https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18TGk3Ukt3WGxaV1k

Well, I'm not out of the woods. Got the x termination board and installed it. I did a project and it completed it, sort of. Where the shaft used to slow down and stop spinning. Now, it keeps spinning slowly and eventually speeds back up. Still not right. I also noticed that it seemed like I got a lot of burn through the whole project. Now, this is on oak, but the bit is brand new. I have attached a close up picture of a single letter to show you the burn (maybe it's nothing.) Plus, 2 videos to show how the machine is acting. One is when its carving a pattern, the other when it's carving text. Any suggestions?

[bergerud]

It kind of sounds like it cannot handle a load. As soon as it comes under load, it fades. Since you replaced the X board, I think the problem must be in the motor. A fickle connection which is affected by the increase in current when under load. Do you see any extra sparking at the brushes when it dies out?

I would take the motor apart and look for signs of heat since bad connections always get hot.

[henry1]

Berg do you know of any update just lately for 3 pro

[bergerud]

Berg do you know of any update just lately for 3 pro

There is an update to 3.103. Just check updates. (Note that I was wrong about the extra patterns being part of Designer 3. There are no more patterns in updates than there were in 1.187.)

(Sorry Shacky for side tracking your thread.)

[Shacky]

I can figure most of this out as I go. I can pull the cut motor. How do I check it out from there? I have a lot of hours on that motor. Should I just plan on getting a new one?

[bergerud]

I would pull the motor and split it apart. (Note the hidden screw in the small blower pipe.) You might get lucky and see evidence of a part or connection getting hot. Just take off one half and make sure you can put it all back the way it was.

[Shacky]

I tried one more carve today, after the video I took of it carving oak. I need a small sign carved in pvc lumber and since its so easy a carve, I thought it might work. I still had slowing issues, plus I got one Check Cut Motor error, and one X axis stall. I don't know if those clues give any more information or not. I'll pull the cut motor in the morning.

[Shacky]

Here are some pictures. Nothing is jumping out at me. Anyone see anything of concern?8342483425834268342783428

[bergerud]

I cannot see anything in the pictures. Look for signs of heat or loose connectors.

[normrichards]

You can clamp the motor to a table and hook it direct to 110 volts and see if it runs ok.

[bergerud]

You can clamp the motor to a table and hook it direct to 110 volts and see if it runs ok.

The problem is that it seems to run ok load free. The cut motor test was ok. When under load, it seems to flake out.

[normrichards]

I understand, If I had the motor out I would run it just to see. I just wonder from the pics if there is also a depth of cut issue. With all the burning and such.

[Shacky]

I also did a carve of some letters in pvc lumber. Very easy carving and it didn't appear to go abnormally deep. Even then I had the issue of it slowing down. I guess I try a new cut motor. (I am to the point now that I wish I just bought a new machine last summer instead of sending it in.)

[bergerud]

It is too bad we could not determine the problem. Still spend a little time looking over all the connectors. Look at the brushes as well. You may still see something which indicates a poor connection.

(Do you think it could be a bad spindle bearing in the truck? Did the motor sound like it was backing off or did it sound like it was under more load when it slowed down?)

[Shacky]

It seemed like it was when it was under load. But, it didn't sound like it was being manually slowed down if you know what I mean. It's like it was under load and just slowed down. It would travel over to a new carve area and still be turning quite slow and then decide to speed up again. When it spinned up to full speed, it sounded really good. I looked at all the connectors, they don't show heat and are snug. The brushes moved easily and seemed ok from what I could tell.

[bergerud]

Take a look at the spindle. I know it is hard to check the bearings as you cannot spin them at high rpm. With the flex out, see how the spindle feels. Is there any play? Any gritty feeling?

That is all I have. Out of ideas.

[Shacky]

The flex shaft is out and the spindle seems to spin quite freely. No resistance and no play. Also inspected the flex shaft and it seems to look the same as it always has. I have never had to replace it. I also sent all this information to support at LHR. I got one reply and he wanted pictures of the motor. Waiting to hear back.

[tackytim]

It could be that the motor has a bad spot on armature windings. Possibly an intermittent short that makes it lose power. I have checked a bad laminate trimmer armature before. If you already have the motor out, it's not hard to check.

[tackytim]

I just looked at your pictures from this morning. You could also try cleaning the buildup off the armature where the brushes make contact. Over time, it can build up and could cause conductivity issues. I would try a little rubbing alcohol with a Q-tip and clean rag. If it's really on there, I have heard recommendations of using super fine sandpaper and *lightly* scuffing it to take off the build up (ideally spinning it in a drill/lathe). I did this on my laminate trimmer, but I had a bad winding and so it didn't make any difference.

[bergerud]

The brushes moved easily and seemed ok from what I could tell.

You did take the brushes out and had a look, right. It is not something like a tether wire broken?

[DickB]

It would travel over to a new carve area and still be turning quite slow and then decide to speed up again. When it spinned up to full speed, it sounded really good.Motor speed sensor?

[bergerud]

Motor speed sensor?

As far as I know Dick, the speed sensor only is used for that spin up speed test and is not actually used to control the motor speed.

[DickB]

Hmm - before the firmware update I would get Check Cut Motor messages not at spin up but into a Centerline operation, leading me to think that the speed is being monitored.

[Shacky]

I did not take them out. With the case open, I could see them and move them, but I will do so in the morning.

[bergerud]

Hmm - before the firmware update I would get Check Cut Motor messages not at spin up but into a Centerline operation, leading me to think that the speed is being monitored.

That is the spin up test. I think it only does the test before vector operations.

[DickB]

No, I'd gotten it in the middle of Centerline or near the end of a cutout.

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk

[bergerud]

After asking many questions about this and getting different answers from different people at LHR, it is still remains a mystery to me.

Just from my own observations, the speed test always seems to happen just before a vector operation starts.

The speed control seems to have nothing to do with carving and so, in this case, since the speed is varying during carving, I do not think it can be related to the speed control system.

It would be easy to disconnect the speed sensor as a test.

[Shacky]

Where is this speed sensor?


After asking many questions about this and getting different answers from different people at LHR, it is still remains a mystery to me.

Just from my own observations, the speed test always seems to happen just before a vector operation starts.

The speed control seems to have nothing to do with carving and so, in this case, since the speed is varying during carving, I do not think it can be related to the speed control system.

It would be easy to disconnect the speed sensor as a test.

[henry1]

Where is this speed sensor?
In the front of the cut motor just 2 wires going in,, right by the fleck shaft

[Shacky]

Further disassembled the motor and put it all back together. Miracle of miracle, it starts up. I checked closely for loose wires etc and will run a test, but I'm guessing it will behave the same. One thing, is the armature suppose to have these two low spots? The look like they were machined, not worn, but I thought I would check.

Also, noted that when I spun the spindle with the cut sensor up, it would not show any change when I turned the spindle with the flexshaft disconnected (I'm guessing that's normal.) When completely reassembled , I could turn the spindle a bit, but it has a spring back type reaction. The sensor did record changes though.

I see the speed sensor connection, if it slows down again, perhaps I'll just disconnect it and see how it reacts.

When I reassembled, I couldn't figure out where the clip for the cover wiring harness goes. It's safely tucked in the back out of the way, but it looks like the clip is designed to go onto the fins nearby?83432

[Digitalwoodshop]

The grind marks are done during manufacturing to balance the armature.

[Shacky]

As I posted earlier, I reassembled everything and did a cut motor test and all seemed good. I loaded it up with a small job to give it a test and the cut motor would not start up. I went back to the cut motor test and it wouldn't work now. I just threw up my hands and ordered a new cut motor. I hope that fixes it.

[bergerud]

Not the news I wanted to hear. You must be frustrated. Let us know what happens next.

[Shacky]

835208352183522
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18ZEpLNnR3d2Rzbnc
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18a3JpUjRFQWt1c3M
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18T2xBOUotMmM0dGM


Got the new cut motor today. Apparently, I now am the owner of an extra cut motor because it did the exact same thing. I carefully replaced the cut motor and with the top off, examined every connection in view to make sure they were snug. Of course, replacing it is quite easy. Put it all together, ran the cut motor test and it started right up. Loaded up a piece for a small test project and everything was fine right until it was time to carve. As you can see from the video, the bit goes into position but does not spin up. I took off the bottom plate and reexamined all the connections underneath. Recall that I replaced the z termination board. Everything looks fine underneath so I do it again. The cut motor starts on the test. Will not work on the carve. Go back after the attempted carve and it won't start up for the test. I did video of a couple things. First, when it runs for the test, it sounds like it's running really fast. Maybe just my imagination but check it out. Secondly, I have included photos. If you see any connections I should check, please advise. Not really sure what to do next.

[bergerud]

This is not good. The only thing left seems to be the controller. (I suppose it could be firmware. Have you re-flashed the card at all during these tests?)

The undulations of the motor speed during the motor test are much greater than on my machine. (Does it behave the same with the speed sensor unplugged?)

Maybe a call to LHR to ask if it could be the controller.

[Shacky]

I'll try the cut test with the controller unplugged. It seems like if I start up the machine fresh and do a cut motor test, it works. Then I try to carve and it fails. Go back to the cut motor test and it fails after the failed carve. I have not re-flashed the card. Not quite sure how to do it, but a search will probably give me some results.

[Shacky]

OK, I give up. How do you re-flash the machine? I have vs 1.187 on my desktop. build 10870

I've looked through the forum and am not seeing directions.

[Mugsowner]

Plug card into reader. Click file, then flash manager,Click firmware. This is done at pc

[Digitalwoodshop]

Interesting.... Great Videos by the way...

Humor me by trying a Seat Belt after you re flash and try it FIRST. Then if it still does not work try a Seat Belt... A Strip of heavy tape applies with the clear cover up 1/4 way at the Right Side Switch. When the cover is closed it holds the clear cover tight to the right switch. I don't think it will help but it is one more thing to check off the list...

I did the Seat Belt on my LEFT Switch.

NEXT I would ship my Controller to LHR for testing....

All it is going to take is one GATE on the Micro controller to fail and this is what you get...

AL

[Shacky]

I will try both tomorrow morning and report back. Thanks!

[Shacky]

Well, things are not better. First, I did flash the card as suggested. I tried that and got the exact same result. The cut motor spun up on cut motor test, but when I went to carve, it was a no go. In fact, this time I got a "check cut motor" message before it even tried. It then went to position made a little noise like it was trying to startup and then stopped and I got an error message. I then tried Al's seatbelt suggestion. Didn't seem to make any difference.

I then took a magnifying glass and check every connection I could find in the bottom compartment and with the top off. I checked the switches and did an ohm test on the one with the bullet connectors. I inspected the X-termination board and the control boards while still installed for any sign of a bulging capacitor or anything else irregular. I noticed that when the machine came back from LHR they installed a tight zip tie holding the flexshaft to the case. I knew it wouldn't make any difference, but since it was new and did restrict the flexshaft movement a bit, I removed it. When I inspected the bullet connectors, I'm not sure, but I wasn't as confident that one was snug, so I made sure it was.

Now, I tried it all again. This time the cut motor test worked and I loaded up a piece to test carve. When I loaded the bit, the spindle actually spun a bit. I forgot that it was suppose to do that and I don't think it has been doing that. But, when it went to do the setup the plate wouldn't flip out for the depth test. It would just keep asking me to load the bit and do the setup and the plate wouldn't flip out. This is something totally new. I made sure it was not bound and moved easily. Then I turned off the machine, unplugged it, plugged it back in, turned on the machine and tried again. I got the exact same result. I have attached a video. Please look at it. When it does the little spin, it just doesn't sound right to me. See what you think. That being said, I disconnected the flex shaft, again, and spun the spindle by hand. It spins easily. With the flex shaft attached I turn the spindle and I can see the cut motor rotate. I've never had any problem with the flex shaft.

Any suggestions on what to try next?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18VG01d0VOZnE5ekE

[fwharris]

Make sure the cut motor wires are tucked back into the corner of the top cover. They might be out a little and hitting the back of the Z motor and stopping it from pushing the bit plate out.

The wire tie is a new thing they are doing on all machines. It keeps the flex shaft from flexing at the cut motor and possibly reducing the cracking of the case.

[bergerud]

That spin up does sound strange. Take out the flex core just to see how the motor sounds by itself.

The bit plate not flipping out is most likely due to the motor wires up in the rear right corner of the machine cover. The z motor hits them and the carriage does not make it all the way to the right to thwack the bit plate. Tuck the wires back into the corner.

[Shacky]

Can't believe after all this time and how much time I've spent under the hood, that I didn't realize that's how the plate pops out. I fixed that and did an easy 20 minute carve. That worked and I'm going to try more tomorrow. I want to be optimistic, but I'll believe it when I see it. I still think that the machine just has a higher pitched whine to it when it's running. It is the new chuck and it has been serviced, so maybe it's just a little different, but not a bad different. I'll prep a board tonight and do some more experimenting.

[SteveNelson46]

I agree with Dan and Floyd. Since you had the cover off, the wires to the right cover switch are probably what is keeping the bit plate from flipping out. There isn't ANY clearance room and if not tucked or secured in the right place it will cause the problem. With that said, I had the same problem and tried everything including removing the wires entirely and the problem persisted. With a closer inspection I found a small wood chip below the Y belt tension spring. When I removed it everything worked normally.

[Shacky]

Had a bad cold for several days and am finally able to get back to this. Unfortunately, it is still doing it. To recap, the machine sets up the project fine and begins the carve. At some point, the spindle winds down and just stops spinning. I have replaced the cut motor and the x termination board. I have inspected all connections multiple times and can find nothing wrong.

The only good news is that I captured on video exactly what it does. The first one shows it carving a very shallow carve and it just spins down and stops. The second video show what happens if I lift the lid and try to restart. Every once in a while, it will spin up and continue when I lift the lid, close it, and push the button to continue.

What's next? Send in the control board to be checked?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18ZXlFVENyRnNsZkk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6AHMN8gmK18Vl9ER0xMMDFkaW8

[Digitalwoodshop]

Have you tried the Seatbelt ? A strip of heavy tape installed on the clear cover to the black cover with the clear cover 1/4 way up. So when the cover is down it pulls the clear cover toward the switch and holds it tite. I did my LEFT Switch. Do the right Switch...

If that does not work...

I would remove the top cover and using a wire crimping tool, re crimp where the wire is shoved into the barrel connectors... Looking for a loose crimp.

AL

[fwharris]

As a test, remove the dust collection attachment or verify that the clear cover is not making any contact with the dc attachment. The cover might be making intermittent contact with the attachment.

[Shacky]

You recommended the seat belt before, but I don't think I did it right and I hate to seem dense, but I'm not quite getting it. Understand to do the right switch as it runs the cut motor but not quite sure how to place the tape. I know the bullet connections are tight, but I will double check that the wire crimps to the connectors are good.

[Shacky]

I will check, but it hasn't been a problem all these years. But, who knows?



As a test, remove the dust collection attachment or verify that the clear cover is not making any contact with the dc attachment. The cover might be making intermittent contact with the attachment.

[Shacky]

Here's the latest. I got feedback from you helpful folks about the cover maybe not closing all the way because of the dust collector. It's been that way for years, but I looked closely at it and took off about another 1/4" off the bottom of the cover. It does close completely now and probably wasn't quite doing that before. (It does touch a little bit, yet. Should I take more off to make sure it doesn't touch at all?) I also put tape on the right side to add a "belt" to tighten up the fit when the cover was closed. I have been able to complete several small jobs and not once have had the project quit mid-job like it was doing.

It does usually give me a "Check cut motor" message just before beginning the project. Is that normal? I also have had at least one time had to make a fix because the bit was so high for part of the carve that it wasn't even touching the board.

That being said, I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I seem to be having better luck.

[fwharris]

Good find! If it is still making contact I would trim it a little more to remove any possibility of it giving you any more problems.

[bergerud]

Glad you are up and running, but, it seems strange to me that the cover switch could have been the problem. Easy to check though. Wiggle the cover around while the cut motor test is running.

[rmock]

We had the same problem with a machine, it would run fine for several days and then would give me problems. Cut a little more off of the lid and good to go, no stopping anymore. As far as the check cut motor, have you changed or checked your cut motor brushes, could be an early warning.

[Shacky]

It's a brand new cut motor. Put it in as a part of troubleshooting my original problem.




We had the same problem with a machine, it would run fine for several days and then would give me problems. Cut a little more off of the lid and good to go, no stopping anymore. As far as the check cut motor, have you changed or checked your cut motor brushes, could be an early warning.

[Digitalwoodshop]

That CCM or check cut motor is normal. You will find that if you did the same project twice in a row without turning the machine off that the second time you would not get a CCM as the machine knows from the first time to go into what I call default mode.

It's all about the computer checking the motor speed and not being happy.

LHR #1 has commented on this years ago.

It's just something I learned to live with.

GLAD you got your machine running.

AL

[DickB]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but are you using the latest firmware with the Check Cut Motor fix?

[Shacky]

I did flash the card as part of the troubleshooting. What is the Check Cut Motor fix?


Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but are you using the latest firmware with the Check Cut Motor fix?

[SteveNelson46]

I did flash the card as part of the troubleshooting. What is the Check Cut Motor fix?

Awhile back someone posted a patched firmware (3.103.12507) that seemed to fix the "Check Cut Motor" problem. At least it did for me. The current version is 3.103 and when I flashed it to the card the problem resurfaced. I found the patched version on my computer (I think) but I don't want to post it until its verified.

[bergerud]

Go to the bottom of the page: http://www.carvewright.com/update3/

I think this still takes you to the older firmware 3.103.12507

[SteveNelson46]

Go to the bottom of the page: http://www.carvewright.com/update3/

I think this still takes you to the older firmware 3.103.12507

I looked on that page but couldn't find any previous versions. 3.103.12507 was a special "patch". I'm not even sure of the version number until I test it.

[bergerud]

I think that is the version you are talking about.(CUTMOTOR FIRMWARE UPDATE (http://www.carvewright.com/firmware-update/)) The firmware that comes with 3.103 is 3.103.00007. (Smaller number but newer version??)

[Shacky]

Interesting. Hopefully this addresses the issue. I'll be doing this today. http://www.carvewright.com/firmware-update/

[Shacky]

I upgraded to 1.188 and applied the cut motor firmware update. I did a small job and it did not give me a check cut motor message at the beginning. Maybe that fixed it! :)

[Shacky]

I guess that firmware update for the cut motor did the trick. I just did a pretty big project and had no problems at all. Thanks for all the help!

Just wondering. I put in a new cut motor with about 8 hours on it now. Any way to reset my machine cut motor hours to reflect that there is a new cut motor in it?

[fwharris]

The machine hours are stored on the machine computer and the only ones I know of to do that are the CW techs. I right down my cut motor hours to keep track.

[Shacky]

Thanks. Maybe a little sharpie note on the side of something.




The machine hours are stored on the machine computer and the only ones I know of to do that are the CW techs. I right down my cut motor hours to keep track.

[normrichards]

Don't forget to change your motor brushes at about 250 hours to keep this motor running.

[alan19512]

Flex shaft is catching lip on top of carvewright and causing z axis stall. Quick fix?83768

[bergerud]

Usually the flex hits the back of the slot, not the front. The top hat on the truck wears out and the flex tilts back. Your case seems opposite.

Maybe your top cover is moved back. Check the screws and see if you can move it forward? Is the top cover warped? Is there something pushing the flex forward? Is the truck rolling properly on the rails?

[Digitalwoodshop]

Posted on the Facebook page He found one of the support wires on the outside of the flex came off causing the problem.