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Ohio
02-15-2017, 08:36 PM
Does anyone have a procedure or video showing how to do a two-sided carve using the Universal Carrier Base from the Pattern Depot?

I started one MPN and while the reverse carved perfectly, the front...didn't. Basically, the CarveWright recognized I was doing a two-sided carve, but I wasn't prompted for "jog to position," so the front started in the wrong place. Do I need to create the front and back of the pattern as two separate MPN files?

Many thanks.

bergerud
02-15-2017, 09:47 PM
I have not tried to do a double sided carve using the USB and a double sided mpc. (I do double sided carving differently.) I do not, however, see any reason why it should not have worked. The second side of the board should, after being measured, have carved properly.

You did not use the new "flip in Jig" feature did you? Did you answer YES to "Is the Board in a Jig"?

How was the front off?

Ohio
02-15-2017, 10:26 PM
Thanks for your help.

"Flip in jig" is Designer Pro, isn't it? I have Designer BASIC.

I tried to place the board in the same place after I flipped the board, then I used the bit to line up the sled. Unfortunately, the front carve started too far back (standing at the keyboard, the carve of the front started too far to the left). I think I could set up a simple stop so when I flip the board, it ends up in the same position. Would that work? Or do I need to figure out a way to place both the board and the sled in the same place?

Without the prompt I don't see how I can jog to position to reference. I guess I could split the front and back into separate MPN files and carve them separately.

bergerud
02-15-2017, 11:02 PM
You should be able to flip the board on the carrier, let the machine remeasure the board exactly as you did for the back side, clamp down the head, and away it should go. It should know where to carve.

If you are trying to do something different than the normal double sided procedure one would use down on the belts, you will have to explain. (Are you trying to use the ACB procedure?)

Ohio
02-15-2017, 11:19 PM
I don't know what the ACB procedure is.

I flipped the board, re-clamped, and got caught in the machine prompting for the bit over and over. I even took the sled out and cleaned out the inside of the machine. That's why I tried to align the sled by hand.

Edit: I need a bit of clarity, please.

If I'm understanding correctly, I should

1. Flip the board over.
2. Let the machine re-measure exactly as you did for the back side.
Questions: You mean let the machine re-measure as if I was doing this without the sled or do you mean to follow the procedure in the instructions for the UCB sled? If you mean the instructions for the UCB sled, which part of the procedure? (I expected that I'd flip the board and clamp, and the machine would know what to do, but that didn't happen, as noted above.)
3. Clamp down the head.

bergerud
02-15-2017, 11:30 PM
Prompting for the bit over and over could be because the head was not clamped completely down before the touch.

bergerud
02-16-2017, 02:45 AM
1. Flip the board over.
2. Let the machine re-measure exactly as you did for the back side.
Questions: You mean let the machine re-measure as if I was doing this without the sled or do you mean to follow the procedure in the instructions for the UCB sled? If you mean the instructions for the UCB sled, which part of the procedure? (I expected that I'd flip the board and clamp, and the machine would know what to do, but that didn't happen, as noted above.)
3. Clamp down the head.

Whenever you carve a board on the UCB, you have to first go through the UCB measuring procedure. This also applies to when you flip the board over on the UCB.

When the machine prompts to flip the board, you take the UCB out of the machine and flip the board. It does not matter exactly where the board is replaced as the machine is going to remeasure it anyway. Put the UCB and board back in the machine and repeat the same procedure to measure the board as you used on the first side. After the board is measured, clamp down the head, do the bit touch and away it goes.

(Note that if you jog to position on the back side, you will not need to jog again on the front side. The machine knows (within the accuracy of the board sensor) where to carve to match the other side.)

normrichards
02-16-2017, 01:13 PM
Although I have yet to build my ucb. I do many 2 sided carves on a sled. I do them as two different carves and mark the center and use jog to center. I write down and match the numbers from side one on side 2.

bergerud
02-16-2017, 02:00 PM
Although I have yet to build my ucb. I do many 2 sided carves on a sled. I do them as two different carves and mark the center and use jog to center. I write down and match the numbers from side one on side 2.

That sounds like a pretty good method. I think that, however, since the numbers are relative to each board measurement, it cannot be any more accurate than using place on center. I have also used the numbers but only when the board (carrier) is not removed and remeasured.

If you do many double sided carves, you may want to make the modified, side clamping UCB posted here:

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=247053#post247053

With it, you can use the ACB measuring procedure which measures the board only once. Your numbers can then be "absolute" in the sense that they are relative to only one board measurement.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=249253#post249253

Ohio
02-16-2017, 04:21 PM
Bergerud, I followed your directions for carving the second side and well, it didn't quite turn out as expected.

You wrote:


When the machine prompts to flip the board, you take the UCB out of the machine and flip the board. It does not matter exactly where the board is replaced as the machine is going to remeasure it anyway. Put the UCB and board back in the machine and repeat the same procedure to measure the board as you used on the first side. After the board is measured, clamp down the head, do the bit touch and away it goes.

This was not my experience. It appears that it does matter where the board goes. I put the board back in in and then put the sled back in about the same position as when it carved the first side.

At first the Carvewright struggled to even find the board to measure it and sent the sled completely out of the machine. I had to re-load several times (each time testing that the project board was 1/8" inch all the way around, re-tightening bolts, etc.), and even put a piece of tape along the keyboard side of the board to make sure the sensors could see that edge. I finally moved the board to the center of the sled and then re-set the sled so more of the front was within the Carvewright, rather than trying to place the first black rectangle under the Y sensor.

The machine proceeded to measure as expected.


(Note that if you jog to position on the back side, you will not need to jog again on the front side. The machine knows (within the accuracy of the board sensor) where to carve to match the other side.)


When the Carvewright finally finished measuring, I did the clamp when prompted to load the bit, and then was prompted with FINDING SURFACE... I remembered what you wrote above and let it run instead of hitting STOP and then doing JOG TO POSITION. When the bit started carving, it was carving air---it wasn't on the board at all.

So it would appear that one procedure for doing two-sided carves with a two-sided MPN and this sled requires following the same steps for the second side as for the first---measure, clamp, and jog to position. But I'll have to test this to make sure it's correct.

I'll be doing a lot of two-sided carves. I think normrichards's procedure may work better for me, so I'll probably try that one, too. I like the sled a lot (the two-sided thing notwithstanding) and can see where I could add a couple of stops to make the process go a bit quicker. The sled is probably just going to live in the Carvewright once I get my own process down because it'll save a ton of material.

Thanks for the responses.

bergerud
02-16-2017, 05:14 PM
I think your problems have more to do with getting the UCB working right than to do with two sided carving. For example, having the carrier roll out of the machine is because the roller did not click when it rolled off the end of the board onto the carrier. The board has to be initially under both rollers when you slowly lower the head until both rollers just barely click. (This is so they unclick at each board edge when they drop the 1/8".) After the board is measured, the head is clamped down the rest of the way as normal.

There may be some confusion about jogging. There are two types of jog. One can jog to determine where the carving will place on the board and/or one can jog to choose where the bit will touch. The operation of the UCB requires that you jog to touch so that the bit can be lined up in the x direction with the touch hole in the carrier side. (normrichards was talking about jogging to place. You should, for now, just use center on board instead.)

I will go and carve a simple double sided carve on the UCB just to see if I have missed anything.

bergerud
02-16-2017, 05:50 PM
I just went through doing a two sided carve with a two sided mpc on the UCB and it went fine. I put the board around the middle of the carrier. When I flipped it, I put it in a slightly different place (just to test). That did not matter to the carving but it meant that I had to re-jog to touch as it remembered the old jog position. It would have been be more convenient if I had positioned the board in the same place.

Initial placement of the board is important. The carrier needs to be lined up so a pair black areas on the carrier sides lines up with the board sensor under the y truck and at the same time, the board has to be under both rollers.

Ohio
02-16-2017, 09:23 PM
Okay, I see. I was confusing jog to position and the bit touch in your instructions. I think that's uunderstandable given that after LOAD BIT, I hit STOP, and am given three options including 3) JOG. Doesn't say BIT TOUCH or anything.

Regardless, I got the front of the double-sided carve done by creating an MPN with just that part of the pattern on it and following the UCB instructions.

I think the stock 1/16th bit is already dull, so I need to do some shopping. Sorry to change the subject, but I got the ER11 from your Chinese supplier on eBay. The parts are sitting on the bench looking at me sadly because I haven't gotten any bits for them yet. (Please don't say that there's no way the bit could be dull yet because I've already convinced myself it is vital to the operation that I go tool shopping. Vital. Better go dig some change out of the sofa cushions.)

Thanks again for the sled and your help. I'm going to try out a couple of ideas I have for stops to make the board flip a little quicker.