Best Way To Make Architectural Molding

[Flash]

Just discovered this great machine and can think of all kinds of things I can make with it.

I've read all the literature but I don't see an easy way to make lenghts of molding. I have an older house and need a few lenghts of molding to match the existing molding. The molding is 4 inches wide with edges and the center routed routed evenly the length of the piece (cross section is the same throughout).

Any ideas on the easiest way(s) to do this task.

Also what if I wanted to make carved molding like nautical rope? Is there an easy way to make a small drawing and have it duplicted over and over lengthwise.

If this makes any sense and anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate your help!

[Greybeard]

Are you familiar with graphics software, like corelDraw etc ?
If not, you've got some learning to do :)

Some present owners might suggest using the scanner (another purchase),
but I would be inclined to use a graphics program. But then I've got several years experience tucked under my belt, so I would say that, wouldn't I.
Regards

John

[pkunk]

Just discovered this great machine and can think of all kinds of things I can make with it.

I've read all the literature but I don't see an easy way to make lenghts of molding. I have an older house and need a few lenghts of molding to match the existing molding. The molding is 4 inches wide with edges and the center routed routed evenly the length of the piece (cross section is the same throughout).

Any ideas on the easiest way(s) to do this task.

Also what if I wanted to make carved molding like nautical rope? Is there an easy way to make a small drawing and have it duplicted over and over lengthwise.

If this makes any sense and anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate your help!
If you're talking about just straight routed moulding without carved details, the best way to make it is with a router in a table or better a shaper. Rope moulding is another matter-I've seen a pattern somewhaer, but can't see through my fog right this minute.:confused: (just came in from spraying alot of shellac ;) )

[right_wright@msn.com]

Rope detail is created with an ornamental mill. The blank is rotated while the cutter moves on the length, creating the rope detail.

You may consider buying the rope molding at Home Depot or Lowe's which comes 3/4" wide X 8' or 10' lengths. If you need a larger width, find some one with an ornamental mill, like us!

When creating your molding allow a flat spot to glue on the rope detail and other router bits to create the rest of the detail.

We have a molder which, custom knifes are available or made to order, that allows us to recreate virtually any detail. Some times it may take multiple passes and an assortment of knifes or router bits.

Hope this was helpful.

[Kenm810]

Seach: Generating new elements as jpgs

John I think these are from one of your earlier posts

[Greybeard]

Hi Ken
Yes, I thought they might be, so I've just spent a couple of minutes finding them !

Flash - they were some of my first attempts, but it will give you some idea.
(Should be able to do better now ;) )
I did them in coreldraw, changed them into bitmaps in greyscale so they could be imported into Designer for the machine to use.

The process is quite straightforward once you've got your design done, and regarding duplication in length, that can be done in designer, but it's easier if you do it in the original software.

On the subject of length, be aware that there is a 12 foot limit in length in Designer which related to a typical board weight becoming too heavy for accurate movement by the friction feed rollers.
I think that limit still applies, but I'm not sure if it's advisory or mandatory.

Regards
John

[Navigator]

Caution - There are two distinctly different cuts, both of which look like twisted rope, but are actually done with different cutters. Strip the finish from your original and look at the groove between the rope beads. If the groove is a sharp "V" then it's Roping, if it has a somewhat round bottom then it's a Barley Twist. Way back when these designs were mostly used for table legs and were often hand carved. The reason for 2 different cutters is that Roping is difficult to finish without filling the gooves. Put enough varnish/poly on and you fill the gooves and wind up with Barley. Also Roping is difficult to sand as the bottom of the goove is essentially end grain. Barley is actually the preferred cut as the rounded groove is easier to deal with.

Further, if the diameter (width) of your design is less than 1" it is unlikely that you will be able to successfully split the piece down the middle and get two useable halves. The CW with scan probe is actually a great solution to this problem. As mentioned in another post, you can buy the moulding from any number of suppliers. A small section would be sufficient for scanning.

Sorry for all this noise but split Roping/Barley always appear better when they lay tightly to the surface of moulding. Any gaps along the length reveal that it is just stuck on trim. Scanning and carving the design directly on the surface of your moulding will yield results you can be proud of.

[right_wright@msn.com]

Flash is right, there is a difference between rope and barley twist. There is also a combination barley twist. The best source for these types of router bits is Magnate. That being said I still have an alternitive appoarch to making the molding (replicated) to match your needs.

Could the CW replicated these, sure! The question is at what cost. As I mention in a previous post rope or barley twist are created on an ornimental mill. Check out Legacywoodworking.com.

As with most period and currently available moldings, they are usally created on the length of the board. It may, depending on the profile, require multiple passes with various knives or router bits to replicate the profile. Just like crown molding, which was made of an number of pieces glued up to create the profile. Today most is made in extruded foam.

Now for the practical side. Even if you bought a CW and ordered a scanning probe (mine has been on order for 2 months) the operation time to scan the profile and ultimately carve the molding with a 1/16 inch carving bit ($20.00 each) may prove to be a bit expensive. The machine at around $2,000.00 has a 200 hour warranty. So if your need to recreate molding was a few feet or so, this would be fine. However if you needed alot, maybe 20 plus feet, it seems to me that you could find other sources to custom cut your molding at an affordable price.

I can't say yet how long it would take to scan the profile what less cut it. If you visit the gallery there are lots of great examples of how others are using the machine.

As for another of Flash's comments, I don't see any way just to make rope molding on the CW were spliting would be an issue. The profile, which can not be over 1" would requre only cutting off the pattern from the board on which it was carve. This would not be a 3d carving. When cut on an ornimental mill or a CNC router with a fourth axis (it would be round) it is pretty simple to cut out four sides to retain the profile, in this case rope molding.

I included a couple of photos of a rope and barley twist router bits which, unless you have a mill will not be of much use, so you can see the difference. I also included some examples of mill work.

Hope this helps!

[Navigator]

Actually, I made the comment re splitting a rope or barley in half and I also have the Legacy mill. I was quite pleased to see that I already have a number if the router bits (plus too many others) that are compatible with the CW. I also got them from Magnate. My reply was to a post offering milling services if the poster could not find/create what they were after.

Like many others I am awaiting my scan probe so I can't speak to cut times for designs created with the probe. Wouldn't it be wonderful if someone could create a rotisserie for the CW! I guess they call that 5 axis milling.

[right_wright@msn.com]

Navigatior, your right! I guess is was responding to Flash and reference him instead of you.

I should have guessed that you had a Legacy, who else deals with rope or barley twist. Now that we have the CW and its capability, we have several new projects in mind utilizing both.

I have been in conversation with Andy, for about 5 years, on several improvements to the Legacy, just met up with him again last week. We likely will be a demonstation and training site for them in the near future.

Later!
Gary

[Navigator]

Gary

No problem. I too have had a couple of ideas on ways to utilize both in some projects. I have already had to share jobs with hand carvers where I did the duplicating of an antique table leg but had to have someone else carve a rosette at the top. I also plan to use the Legacy for the edge routing, you can't beat 2 1/2 hp. It seems we now have the best of both worlds for offering truly custom work. My next goal is to attempt carving on plates and platters turned on the lathe. Not sure but figure I'll mount them on the scanning sled. Andy seems like a pretty great guy, now we need to find a similar fella at CW.

[right_wright@msn.com]

Navigator, We are running 3.25 hp on our legacy. Just bought the new x-axis, or maybe its the y axis, what ever the router mounts on, the new mount has better visibility and greater depth. I should send you photos of the modifications we made to our Legacy.

And by the way we love the new capability the CW provides.

We are in West Virginia, are you a full time wood worker?

Later!
Gary

[Navigator]

Gary

2.5 vs 3.5 hp - is that a testosterone question?

All of the work I do on the Legacy or lathe is referral business from contractors restoring old homes or furniture. I seem to specialize in very old tables with missing legs or soggy plaster crown mouldings. I don't refinish the wood or layup plaster, I just make the pieces/molds. I have managed to recover the cost of my various machines but hardly call it full-time work. If getting paid makes you a professional then I am a pro, but if you ask me questions then I am an amatuer!

It has taken me a very long time to know what I don't know.

Don't want to turn this into a Legacy forum but how much more depth are you getting from the new carriage? How would you support a finished table leg in the CW? My concern with using both machines is which cuts to make first?

I am in the heart of SE Michigan where every other neighbor works (worked) for an auto company, so construction/repair is pretty slow around here.

Ed

[right_wright@msn.com]

Ed,

We get a plunge of slightly over 5”, with digital readout, (3” on the old one) without move the rails. By the way it is the Z-axis.

I understand that we do not want to make this into a Legacy forum however; I do think it serves others interested in CW and demonstrates how others utilize CW capabilities and other equipment in real world solutions.

I haven’t figured out yet how to carve on a cylinder so in the interim I carve my pattern on a square blank then offset my blank when loading it into the Legacy and set a taper. Think in terms of a walking stick, my CW pattern is left on a flat, rounded on the sides and back, and the taper starts at the end of the CW pattern, usually a barley twist. In WV the coal miner inspectors carry a walking still to probe mine walls, they tell me they are required to. I have made two of these with the combination of the CW and the Legacy; unfortunately I did not take photos. I am real sure I will get another order soon and I will get a photo to share.

On the other things we use the CW for is creating glass molds, plaster molds, stamps, precious metal clay molds for jewelry, and templates for pin routing and of course signs.

We are full time self employed and have 3 shops Woodworking, Stained Glass and Metal. We specialize in custom work, repairs, recreations, restorations and several of our own products.

When I look at some of the other projects people have done with their CWs I am amazed. I hope to have the time in the future to further my CW skills.

I got to go paint a 12’ sign I carved last night, installing Saturday, I do love this machine.

[Navigator]

Gary

5" plus a side cutting bit should permit about 9" of depth. I have needed this much when using a profile following template. Funny, I had not thought about using the CW just to make templates for other projects! I saw your post using a CW layout with your pin router, it just makes sense.

Do you have a website for Wright Stuff?

Ed

[right_wright@msn.com]

Ed,

Glad you found my post on Pin Routing.

And yes we do have a web site, www.thewrightstuffworks.com You can do a profile lookup on anyone in the forum and find all the other info that is part of a profile, we listed our web site there as well.

On other fronts, CW called today and our Scanning Probe, more bits and extra bit collors are on the way, and the full set of bits will ship shortly, Now that makes me happy. And as it could not get any better then that, Legacy call and my other new stuff is on it way.

Its going to be a late night tonight gota earn some bucks!

Later!
Gary

[Ted Grinnell]

I noticed you were thinking of carving designs on plates or platters that you turn on a lathe.

I may be all wet, but why not carve them first, then turn. That way you do not risk the plate being off center of the carving.

You may also consider carving the entire plate in carvewright. I did this on a fish platter I had, carving both sides in the machine. Turned out OK.

[right_wright@msn.com]

Hi Ted,

Actually Navigator, Ed, and I were referring to a Walking Stick. We were sharing ways of carving a CW pattern first on a square blank and then mounting in an ornamental mill, as we both have mills. To save the carved area I offset the blank center before milling. I am sure that there is a way to carve a cylinder on the CW; (It would be awesome if they, CW, introduce a forth axis). I just have not got that far yet. As for plates and platters I have an indexed turn table on the mill to make these. I would love to see some photos of your carvings and the techniques you use.

Thanks!
Gary

[Navigator]

Ted

Thanks for your input. What we actually face is Which machine to use rather than What each machine can do. Legacy w/ indexing table, Lathe turned plates, or CW carved from solid stock, all will do the job. For those of us that actually want these machines to pay for themselves, time and materials, and equipment wear become the real issues. Wood turned on the lathe can be finished to the ready to stain point very quickly, while the Legacy and CW require more work to prepare for finishing. I think I can turn plates/platters more quickly, leaving an unturned center, on the lathe, then use the CW to add the carving detail. My hope is to develop a method to my madness so that I can work quickly and efficiently. It's true that there is a "Right" tool for every job.

Every tool in your workshop has a specific use, however, at some point it can also used as a hammer!

Ed