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200k
09-06-2016, 08:11 PM
I've been off the Forum for numerous months due to some health problems. I have a basement shop with no fresh air outlet. (It's in the back deepest part of the basement and my In-Laws apartment is in the front part of the basement that opens to the outside.) My basement walls are 8 to 10 feet underground so venting through a wall is a non-starter. I have a large 3HP Delta "dust collector" that sucks up the prodigious amounts of sawdust from my tablesaw, planer, and jointer without problems. I also have a Ringneck Blues DC on my Carvewright hooked up to the Delta that I thought was taking care of that dust also. In addition to this Delta dust collector connected to individual machines, I have a JET 1000 CFM air scrubber supposedly good for cleaning down to .5 microns. This system was getting all of the big stuff that you can see. My shop remained clean to the eye.

But as I said, late last year I started to have some medical problems. Specifically, some serious breathing problems. For a guy who has never smoked I was wheezing like I had a lifetime 3-pack a day habit. I saw a bunch of doctors and did a bunch of research and found among others a website that specifically addresses the ultra-fine particulate matter that is created in woodshops - Bill Pentz website: http://www.billpentz.com/ (some scary reading when you suddenly can't breathe.) Basically all the equipment I have doesn't filter out the sub-microscopic ultra-fine sized particles that are comparatively the size of smoke particles. I'm talkin' reeeeeealy tiny here. Since they are so tiny they just blow through filters and the Brownian motion of even still air molecules keeps them in the air so they never settle out on surfaces. They just float around until you have a chance to breathe them. Cough, cough.

As it turns out my problem is more of an allergic response to these particles rather than any sort of lung tissue scarring disease that would be permanent. So all I had to do was stop working in the basement - especially my Carvewright which produces the plenty of ultra fine particulate when cutting Corian and PVC lithopanes of which I was doing a lot of at the last.

The solution of course is to move my machine into an area that can be completely ventilated on a regular basis with a full exchange of air and thereby get rid of the sub-microscopic but toxically breathable particulate. So, I will be moving my Carvewright to my garage. Unfortunately like most guys my age I have collected enough "stuff" to fill my garage so space is already at a premium. So I all this stuff I've written is only a preface to my question to you guys on the forum:

What kind of physically small size dust collector can I use to suck out the major dust/chips while the machine is operating? By this I mean something like a Fein shop vac, but how to connect it to the Carvewright? I'm not talking about the sub-microscopic stuff but the visible crud that will muck up the working of the trucks, sensors, and belts.

Some thoughts:
1. The Ringneck Blues adapter has a 4" outflow - waaaaay too big for a shop vac. I don't think necking it down will ensure enough vacuum from a 2" hose.
2. A couple years ago I made one of the Bergund's small dust pickups that bolts near the base of the Z-truck but you have to take off the flip-out bit checker and permanently install a lucite piece in its place. I never did get it to work.

I'm looking for help from anyone out there. I really miss carving on my machine and until I get this solved, nothing's gonna happen.

Thanks,
200k

bergerud
09-06-2016, 10:13 PM
I would say that you should get that old dust shoe working. It sounds like it is just what you need. (I use my dust cap which is a better but it only works with the ER type spindles.) Others have made the dust shoe but I have not heard too much about it for awhile. It works quite well for normal type carving.

Why could you not get it to work? What kind of trouble did you have?

fwharris
09-06-2016, 10:22 PM
What micron size is the filter bags on your dust collectors? Most are 5 to 10 microns but you can get upgraded bags down to 1. In a situation like yours, a closed environment, that is still a lot of dust particles being put back into the work area.

What I have on my system is a Wynn filter cartridge. It filters down to 0.5 micron http://wynnenv.com/woodworking-filters/

He has instructions for fitting them up to just about most makes of dust collectors.

Keeping the filter cleaned on a frequent bases helps maintain a good draw for better pick up at the machine. I would highly suggest adding a paddle to the filter so that you can knock the dust off the inside of the filter.

200k
09-07-2016, 10:56 AM
My main problem was that I could't get the outflow right-angle tube part to carve correctly. I calibrated the machine several times to try and remove the inaccuracy but that part is so thin walled that even an infinitesimal offset resulted in carve through of the tube wall. I also wasn't comfortable with taking off the bit checker though right now I'd be willing to give it a try. I've already got the bearings and even glued on the felt "brush" ring on two of my tries. I tried using a small plastic 1/2" right angle barbed plumbing connector but even cut down it was too long and scraped against the front "lip" of the inside frame. The available space in that particular spot is VERY small.

The rest of the pattern you gave carved really beautiful. You do spectacular work in Designer.

200k
09-07-2016, 11:21 AM
I'm not kidding when I say this ultra-microscopic particulate exists and you can't see it, and single membrane filters won't stop it. If they are fine enough to pick up stuff this small, you can't get enough air through them to work with a machine.

The kind of filter I can use that will work are the organic molecule cartridge type filters that fit on a silicone face mask. It looks like a WWI gas mask. If I have to wear one of those for hours at a time I'll take a pass.

I'll still try to find a solution for the garage which I can open completely and get a full air exchange.

bergerud
09-07-2016, 11:32 AM
I know the tube is very difficult to carve. I have carved through a few as well. If you want to give the shoe another go, PM me your address and I will send you a tube.

fwharris
09-07-2016, 11:37 AM
I know what you are talking about with the dust floating in the air. I had that situation with the normal dust bags that came with the dust collector. After converting over to the cartridge filter I did not have the dust floating in the air. I could actually do finishing, staining and painting, while carving.

The cartridge filter has more filtering surface area than the bags and I saw an increase in suction (air flow) at the source as they state in the description of the filter.

Give them a call to discuss your situation as they are very knowledgeable about the subject of filtration and very willing to help people out.

Digitalwoodshop
09-07-2016, 12:26 PM
I would also consider a stand alone air filter system and one with the static plates to collect fine stuff too. You could never overkill on air cleaners....

AL

oscarl48
09-07-2016, 10:11 PM
Dan,

Can you add a quick link to your dust shoe thread. I am curious about the design. I tried searching for it but no luck.

Regards,
O

bergerud
09-07-2016, 10:54 PM
Dan,

Can you add a quick link to your dust shoe thread. I am curious about the design. I tried searching for it but no luck.

Regards,
O


Here is the original thread: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?22715-Dust-Shoe-Prototype-I-Project&p=198552#post198552

oscarl48
09-07-2016, 11:03 PM
Thank you. Very impressive design.

200k
09-12-2016, 08:15 PM
Yes, muchos kudos to Dave for working on it. He has more skill with Designer than I will ever have. I've carved about six of the dust shoe patterns including two of the earlier iterations with the open front. I have been using 1/2" Corian instead of the Lexan mainly because I get the Corian free from a countertop installer as sink cutouts. They don't look as sexy as Lexan but it is still a good material. The bit check plate I did make out of Lexan mainly because I had some 1/4" on hand from another project.

OK, now the latest update on my efforts to get this design of dust shoe working. I was able to find a plastic 90 elbow at Lowe's that, with some Dremel tool work, would fit within the very close clearances this design requires. (Four different attempts to carve the angled outflow tube were all failures due to the very thin wall and my inability to flip the work and re-register the corner within the tolerances needed - it's a two sided carve.) I also found a nice piece of ~1/2" corrugated plastic hose that would be flexible enough to track the width of the Y-axis without creating too much drag. So I put everything together and installed it. (BTW, installing the bit check plate requires partial disassembly/reassembly of the carriage lock mechanism. It's a pain but doable.) I did a little 6x8 lithopane carve with the dust shoe hooked into my Fein shop vac. For the first 25% of the carve there was barely any flecks showing anywhere within the CarveWright. At that point the glue that I attached the outflow tube to the shoe ball bearing race failed and the change was immediately evident. So I can count this as a provisional success!

I used the glue sparingly to attach the outflow tube because I didn't want to get any in the bearing itself and freeze it up. I'll try not only a little more glue, but a different kind. The stuff I used (Uhu) has a flexible bond and is usually tenacious but of course even a tiny amount of oil from the bearing race would weaken or negate any bonding, especially on non-porous materials like plastic and metal. I'll try gluing it again with better preparation, using a judicious amount, and a different glue that will be stiffer. I'll let you all know how it turns out. I'm going out of town later this week so I won't get to it for a couple of weeks, but I definitely will.

One last question for Dave Bergerud. Where do you source the fuzzy window seal strip you use in the slot on the bottom? I had to resort to using felt fabric for this purpose. It works but I like yours better. thanks.

bergerud
09-12-2016, 09:02 PM
I have sent you a tube. You should get it in a week or so.

The brush material is sliding window seal. I have also seen it on door sweepers.

Dan

Digitalwoodshop
09-13-2016, 09:33 AM
For the hose check out your Neighbors that may be using a CPAP Breathing Machine for sleep apnea.

Very flexible, crush resistant, and about the correct size. Only fresh air is blown through the hose so it is not a bio hazard.

You can even find them on eBay new.

I plan to revisit this project in the winter... and use a small variable speed blower and dust trap.

AL

bergerud
09-13-2016, 09:53 AM
I will have to check out that hose Al. It could be the answer I have been looking for. Good one.

Digitalwoodshop
09-13-2016, 10:11 AM
I plan to try to adapt a CPAP Mask to install after bit check too... Using your base plate shoe.

It has a clear slip or twist connector letting the hose rotate that might be a good thing too...

AL

bergerud
09-13-2016, 02:39 PM
I just ordered 6 ft of 19mm CPAP hose. The normal stuff seems to be 22mm which is closer to 7/8". The 19mm (3/4") seems already big enough for me. I will report on it when I get it and give it a try.