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View Full Version : A modest trouble-shooting proposal (long post)



cycollins
03-20-2007, 04:17 AM
I'm currently in the midst of two simultaneous trouble-shooting issues (a persistent close-cover warning and a z-axis stall - the stall might be resolved, but I can't get the close-cover warning to go away so I can find out). I've scanned the forum and found MANY people with the close-cover problem. In some cases the problem appears to be software related. People have reported that reformatting their memory module was sufficient to clear the problem while others say that the upgrade to 1.2 caused it. In other cases, the close-cover bug appears to be an old-fashioned hardware glitch, which was my first assumption. Users report that resetting the door sensor cable connector or (and this one gives me the creeps) pulling a gray ribbon cable associated with the scan probe will clear this up. Still others say that mechanically monkeying around with the micro switches that compose the hinge sensors will do the trick. There is a similar spectrum of problems/solutions posted for all kinds of axis stalls, board sensor failures, depth craziness, postion drift, margin fraying, etc. etc.

You see the problem. My bug and/or solution could be any one of these or one that I missed amid the jumble of posts or a completely new one. I can (and probably will) try one or more of them in addition to bothering the support folks at CW, but I'd like to have some confidence that I've covered all the bases. There's a staggering amount of wisdom out there about the machine, but it isn't organized very well. Hence my suggestion: we (the users of the forum) should put together a trouble-shooting index - a database of solutions indexed by symptom. The idea would be for some collection of volunteers (presumably the moderators and some wise-guys like me who open their mouths to make suggestions like these) to scour the existing forum entries, finding problems and sorting the solutions into collections by the particular symptom. But that's only half the trick. The other half is to normalize the solutions; that is, to describe each one as a series of steps, with reference to some common diagrams with labled parts. I mean no offence to the contributers, but there is a fair amount of "yank on the thing to the left of the flange around the back of the franistat". It would be great if the CW manual had an exploded view of the unit with callouts, but common sense says that such a thing would be too complex to read. However, there could be a map to the user-servicable parts beyond the z-truck and beneath the black top-cover. If CW doesn't have diagrams we could use, it would be a simple enough matter to devise such a map from a series of photographs with arrows and labels. That way, each procedure could reference a common machine layout and part labeling scheme.

So imagine my (and others') close-door warning bug in such a format. There are a finite number of symptoms, but I search the index to find a close-door problem (did I mention the index should be searchable?). I find, say, five procedures, clearly delineated with reference to common diagrams. I follow them all. No luck. I call support. I can now tell the guy at support what I did by reference to the index. The support guys say they'd like to spend more time on the forum and the index (as a forum-supported resource) would be the most time-effective way of doing that. In fact, one would hope that more than half the entries in it were contributed by the support folks themselves. After talking for a while on the support call, we try a few things and come up with a new solution that does the trick. I can then go and update the index (did I mention it should be user-updatable?) with a new procedure and the next guy to have a close-door warning will have six procedures to try before calling support. Newbies to the forum could be directed to the index to avoid constant repetition and duplication of solutions (a problem called out by the moderators). The interactive portion of the forum would still be useful for debating procedures or devising new ones collectively, but the discussions would be cleaner by referencing the common index.

Some of the senior forum folks have suggested that whiners (such as myself on occasion) either put up or shut up. The idea is that this equipment is not for the feint-of-heart and that one should step up to the challenge of ownership and master the thing. Fair enough. I'm game. But in order to do that, I think there should be a better resource than the manual (sufficient to get one up and going, but not really useful beyond box-opening day) and the collected lore of the discussion forum to make that possible.

So what am I really proposing? I'm offering to collaborate with any willing group of forum users (hopefully a knowledgeable cross-section) to get such an index off the ground. Since my CarveWright skills are nothing to brag about, I'd be happy to do some of the heavy lifting as far as collating the data and publishing it. One medium for doing this springs to mind pretty quickly - Wikipedia. It's hosted, user-editable, searchable, hypertexted and includes image and other support media. Maybe another way might be a collectively-maintained PDF document (like the top-hatch removal document), which has many of the same properties along with annotation and change-control. By an odd co-incidence, I happen to work for Adobe in the Acrobat group, so I have access to a lot of resources along those lines.

So what say you, forum-dwellers? Anyone game to try to make all this collective wisdom really useful? If you have good ideas about how to execute on this plan or if you're just interested, post to this thread. If a core group of enthusiasts emerges, we can continue to collaborate by private messages and/or e-mail. Or if you think I should switch to a decaffeinated brand and go back to scouring the forum for hard-to-find veins of gold, you can post that too. Just looking for ways to lift eachother up by our collective boot-straps.

Thanks,
cycollins

Greybeard
03-20-2007, 08:51 AM
Hi Cy.
Speaking as a non-owner(explanations elsewhere in the forum) yet curiously a Moderator, I wholeheartedly agree with your summing up of the present situation, and perhaps more importantly to you, to your idea for a direction the solution should take.
No doubt there will be some debate on the pros and cons of the Wiki approach as opposed to an "in-house" solution, but I for one would incline to the former if it would be the simplest way to produce an editable resource.

Currently the forum is relatively small, compared say with cnc zone, another site that I frequent, where hundreds of postings a day make keeping up something of a chore. Not a close comparison, I agree, but it's all I've got at the moment.

Before someone else thinks of it, I will confess a bias towards your idea, as if introduced, it would make servicing some future machine available on this side of the Atlantic a great deal easier.
It could be this point alone might give the CW team more confidence in developing such a machine.

If a non-owner has anything to offer in this project, you can count me in, even if it's only proof reading. Mind you, I'd then try to get you all to spell in the old fashioned way !

Regards
John

Jeff_Birt
03-20-2007, 08:51 AM
I think a troubleshooting guide and pre-use check list are great ideas. The real trouble comes in seprating the wheat from the chaff (real problems/fixes from someone who tried a little of everything). Many people reported troubles after upgrading to 1.120, most of which had nothing to do with the firmware upgrade. Two or three people actually did seem to have real issues with this firmware version as when they reverted to 1.115 and all was well again. Post hoc ergo propter hoc (or) Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. (both are logical fallicies).

For such a guide to be of any use, each root cause and relevant symptoms must be tracked. The 'chaff' must be discarded. This is A LOT of work (the Designer wish list thread is an example of this, I have not kept the compiled list updated), a 'open' system that everyone could contribute to would ease the work load but could also lead to the situatiuon where there is a lot of data but no useful information, perhaps an open but moderated situation. I'd be willing to pitch in anyone else?

BoardSilly
03-20-2007, 09:50 AM
The ideal solution would be if the techs at CW were to create an online "Knowledge Base". These are commonly used to assist end users to 'self serve' themselves for trouble/corrective actions. Since CW knows this system inside and out, their creation of this would eliminate all the chaff.

liquidguitars
03-20-2007, 11:28 AM
We need a service manual with part numbers ect.. I feel not haveing one is a safety issue.

Lig

a439664
03-20-2007, 11:33 AM
Hi all,

We are currently working on developing a new manual for both hardware and software and we are also working on providing Sears with a troublehsooting guide that will allow them to know the product better and help you guys with your machine as well! The manuals will be written by technical writers so they will be easy to read and use. I have actually seen a copy of the new hardware manual and although it is still a work in progress, it is incredibly more detailed and helpful than the original. All of these manuals should be available to our current customers via the website once they are released. (The website should also have an online store in about 3 weeks). We really want you guys to enjoy our product so we are working on making it easier to do so. If you have any other questions about it, feel free to call us at 713-473-6572!

Thanks,
Deidre
CarveWright/CompuCarve Support Team

Jeff_Birt
03-20-2007, 11:39 AM
Ask and ye shall recieve. Thanks Deidre!

nodwell
03-20-2007, 11:47 AM
I like the idea. Was thinking it could be arranged as a separate main forum topic and each thread labeled as to its contents, such as “X axis stall – error 246”. Members could post their solutions (replies) to that particular problem. Mods would have editing rights to make the posts more concise - that is removing the wheat from the shaft to borrow a phrase.

By no stretch of the imagination am I an ‘IT’ person but I will be happy to help in any way I can.

Don

Greybeard
03-20-2007, 04:29 PM
Hi all,

......The manuals will be written by technical writers so they will be easy to read and use.......

CarveWright/CompuCarve Support Team

Er, umm, yes, OK.
John

pkunk
03-20-2007, 05:17 PM
Er, umm, yes, OK.
John
Now, John.:p If the tech isn't in China, we have a chance for it to be understandable, don't we?:confused:

Greybeard
03-20-2007, 06:40 PM
Paul, if I remember the old B-movies right, isn't this where I hold my hand up and say "I'm pleading the 5th amendment"?

;)

John

HandTurnedMaple
03-20-2007, 06:44 PM
I'll have to check the Magna Carta, but I think only Americans can plead the 5th.

Bill
03-25-2007, 07:41 AM
Lets hope they make an announcement when the new manual is ready for downloading.

Kenm810
03-25-2007, 08:20 AM
New Machine Manual,
I know there is one being worked on now,to be ready for downloading soon.
Along that same line, has any one ever listed or published,
or even seen a complete list of all the Error Codes for the CW and what they mean or what could/would cause them?
I’ve seen several posted, but new ones “at least for me” pop-up every few days.
I went through the search and manual that came with my machine.
I have found several, and some repeated many times.
If there is a good comprehensive list I would appreciate a little help finding it.

pamjmayo
03-25-2007, 11:32 AM
I think this is the biggest mistake CW made. It seems ridiculous not to have a list of errors. It would sure save a lot of work and frustration.

Sarge
03-25-2007, 01:31 PM
In my quest to "fix" my CW, I compiled a Word doc that has some (not all) error codes and so here's a cheat sheet for trouble shooting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have an anally retentive, attentive to detail, aggressive/abrasive personality. (Hummmm, like you couldn't have already guessed)!!!

For three days, I've been combing through the forum for definitive "fixes" for my Error 246. I found alot of ash, trash and whining, which rendered absolutely NO HELP!!! There were a few links that disappeared (deleted??), which were probably good info from CW Administrators. No wonder the Help Desk is swamped. We've also been playing phone tag for three days, my fault.

I found some very specific posts, (ie: "I talked to CW Tech and they had me check A, B, C, or I did this and found this problem fixed) These, I've copied and pasted to a Word document (zipped) as a quick reference Cheat Sheet. It doesn't mean your problem will be definitely solved, just easier to start troubleshooting.