Cut Motor Wont Run...Again

[ronboley]

So this problem has been visited many times here. Here's the situation this time...
Changed my cut motor brushes (see cut motor abuse thread) , set up and carved two 10 hour carves that went just fine. Just finished one carve, set up to do the next and then it happened, cut motor wont run. Only thing I had touched was the wires from the motor to the right hand switch as they were preventing the head from going all the way over to the touch plate which I fixed with a piece of duct tape...but this was on the previous carve with no problems. Cut motor check of course says running, but no running. I've checked the two white wires and one black wire and their connections several times. I tested both switches and both open and close (continuity, no continuity) as they should. On close inspection I found a small kink or indent in one of the white wires so I cut it and inserted a connector. With a cut motor check it ran! Hurrah. After setting up for the carve I got the same problem, no running motor. Shoot...or something like that. I'v jumpered the switches to the same no-run result.

So now my checklist...
Switches - OK checked with tester, and jumpered and both click when cover closes.
Motor - new brushes and on inspection new brushes ok and motor turns freely
Wires? all seem continuous and connected, but...I've heard the connectors sometimes are suspicious and haven't inspected closely where the wires enter the motor yet.
X-Term Board....who knows $62 to replace...
Cut Motor ...$185 to replace...

Any suggestions? Or likely suspects? Or Magic?

[normrichards]

check the fsc cable for any nicks or cuts or if you have an extra or another machine swap it out.

[bergerud]

Poor or loose connectors on the X termination board could be worth a check.

[SteveNelson46]

Ron,

You can connect 115v directly to the cut motor to check it. Obviously, disconnect it from the machine first and make sure it is well anchored. If it starts it will have a lot of torque. Also check continuity through the brushes and leads with a multimeter.

It could also be an intermittent connection in the power supply. Especially if you have an older machine.

[SteveNelson46]

Since the control logic is on the data card it could be that also. If you can, switch cards. If not, try reformatting and re-flashing the card. Reformatting will wipe the data and re-flashing will replace the control logic.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I would with the unit un plugged, get a quality wire crimper and re crimp the motor wire push on connectors.

Remember the post with a loose connection INSIDE the Motor that was re soldered...

Visual inspection of the X Termination Board looking for burnt parts or a broken C1 Cap leg.

Your CW Computer may have dust inside?

AL

[ronboley]

Thanks for all your input. I'll be checking all of those...

Al: you mentioned a wire "inside the motor that is re-soldered" is that the black power wire? That seems likely as the two times I've gotten the motor to temporarily run was after messing with that wire...Don't have the motor off yet (again) so that may be my next issue...

[Digitalwoodshop]

It's going to be trial and error to find any loose wire. Be gentle as the wires are delicate... And watch placement of the wires even take pictures as you open the motor. A miss placed wire putting it back together could hit a moving part or get pinched. And you are using LHR Brushes? Some sanded to fit aftermarket brushes cause major trouble from sticking to being too long...

Check for a hidden screw inside the muffler hole when you open the motor.

AL

[ronboley]

So this seems crude, but to bench test the cut motor just take a 115v chord, attach to the black and white wires on the cut motor and plug it in? After anchoring the motor down of course...

[normrichards]

That is correct. Just connect it to a 110 cord and plug in, I set mine in a vise, dont crank to hard on the plastic in the vise.

[ronboley]

Hurrah!!! After bench testing the cut motor, it runs like a champ! Reinstalled everything, cut off all wire connectors from the motor, power and cover switch, soldered new wires to all, cut off a piece of the top cover to pass the wires out back where connections can be made (and unmade as necessary). Run cut motor test, works like a charm.
Oh boy now I can carve again! NOT! Immediately get the fatal “Edge Detection Failure” Flashed memory cards. Same problem. Checked the board sensor, all clean and clear. Checked the wires, all connected. Ran board sensor test (this is where it gets weird) The head homes, the starts across the board (left to right) to about 2” into the board then stops and gives E03 error. I run the board sensor test and it reads 0 at home and 0 (left to right) until it gets about 2” into the board then goes to 157. Reads 157 (left to right) until it gets to the right edge of the board and goes to 0.
OK so why does it read 0 from home to 2” into the board then(always at the same spot) reads 157 until it gets to the other side of the board and then goes to 0. This is the same spot (or so it seems) where the Err 03 occurs. The board is pretty consistantly light yellow, no marks or otherwise.
Going crazy. I read the CW repair bulletins and I get to the part where it says “consult sensor engineer”. Oh yeah and if I start tests with head at home, immediately get Z Axis Stall error. Test movement and head moves freely. So here’s the data:
#Sensor Check
Cover switch close
Front roller compressed
Rear roller compressed
Board Sensor 157
Y position 0.00
Z position 0.00
X position 0.00
Board 0.00
Probe State Open
Cut Sensor 0
#Enter Projects
Z Axis Stall E06-0324
#Measure Board
Clear Board Sensor
#Stop
Edge Detection Failure Err: E03-0400 Press Stop
#Checks
X: A=112.07, M=168.12
Y: A=38.13, M=165.16
Z: Z Axis Stall @Home
Z: A=39.49, M=102.18 @ Middle
Z: A=39.90, M=126.41 After Cut Motor Test @ Middle
CW repair Bulletins say number only mean anything to LHR engineers. So what do numbers mean?

Any ideas on hiow to fix errors????
I’ll call LHR Monday and inquire if there are any “sensor engineers” there.

[bergerud]

When behavior is sensitive to y truck position, we usually suspect the FFC ribbon. Check for cracks and the connection beside the z motor.

[ronboley]

Checked the FFC cable....removed and reinstalled it in its connections....checked the encoder (removed plastic cover and blew out gently) was pretty clean inside....tried to run again. Now the head just jumps a little and returns a Z Axis stall no matter what button I push....

[bergerud]

Jumping and then returning a stall error occurs when the controller is not getting the encoder data. That is, the controller is not getting the feedback that tells it the motor has moved. This, along with the earlier problem, still seems like the FFC ribbon.

[fwharris]

Jumping and then returning a stall error occurs when the controller is not getting the encoder data. That is, the controller is not getting the feedback that tells it the motor has moved. This, along with the earlier problem, still seems like the FFC ribbon.

I have to agree with Dan that it is probably the FFC ribbon cable. Most often the break/crack is close to the black support bracket in the back.

[ronboley]

Yep...I called LHR and spoke to Chris...FFC Cable is the most likely suspect...especially with the Z AxisStall and Board Edge Sensor errors together....I'll order a new one and see what happens....Thanks for the advise!

[ronboley]

Finally got back to town...ordered FFC cable (two of them, one to screw up and one to work). Installed it today. Ran tests and test project...all went well, no problems and machine seems to function as before.

So in summary had two problems. First was the connections between cut motor/switches and rest of machine. Solved that by cutting out all of the push pull connectors and soldering in extension wires to outside the machine where I could work with the connections without the removing cover hastle. In the mean time something went wrong with the FFC cable (see photos). New cable solved that problem...be a ware that replacing this cable takes a lot of dexterity and VERY careful routing an dplacement in the end connections.

In the course of this very frustrating experience I got rid of the bothersome cover connector screws and welded some long rods onto new screws to allow the cover to be removed without magnets, flashlight and small screws flying into the guts of the machine. I'll also leave the electrical wire connections outside the cover to also allow cover removal and replacement with less grief.

So my machine is working again. I didn't have to resport to by-passing cover switches or "hot wireing" the motor with a manual switch, (although I was surely tempted) but the machine is starting to look like a Franken-Carver rather than Carve-Right.

Thanks to forum members advise and Chris at LHR...

[DianMayfield]

I hate those screws, love your adaptation!

[Digitalwoodshop]

So picture 2 shows clearly the damage to the FSC Cable from the sharp bend over and over. When installing the cable I like to keep that section as flat as possible so the majority of the cable flexes not just a kink or sharp bend flexing over and over.

If you placed a wide board in the machine and covered it with 2 sheets of copy paper overlapping to the edges and called up the board sensor data it should read about 156. With a damaged cable you move the head and watch the reading. IF it changes drastically like going to ZERO then you are seeing the cable make and break contact.

The reading is REFLECTIVE Light from the board so when the sensor goes off the edge of the board the reflection goes away. Like a Road Reflector in the Headlights.

It's just thin FLAT copper wire held by plastic..... It can snap then touch then NOT touch...

Good Job fixing it.

AL