Flapper won't come out.

[djarboe]

Got done with the carving, and put in the cutting bit. Now the flapper starts to come out, and stops before the bit can touch off of it. Checked it, and it moves freely. Went ahead and blew it out with compressed air. Still seems to move freely and tried it again with the same result. So any ideas about what is going on here?

Dave

[dbemus]

The truck may be hitting the wires leading to the cut motor, upper right hand corner of the cover.

[lynnfrwd]

Sometimes on the right back corner, the power cord interferes with the movement of the z-truck over to the slap plate.

[djarboe]

Sometimes on the right back corner, the power cord interferes with the movement of the z-truck over to the slap plate.

Seems strange it did not happen during the carving part, only when it came to the cutout process.

[fwharris]

It could be dust built up on the Y rails and Y bearings. Give them a good wipe down with WD-40 and lube them.

PS the flapper is called the "bit plate" ;)

[cestout]

The bit plate does not come out except to check the bit length so when carving the Y truck never goes that far over. It worked ok when you installed the bit to start the carve so something happened in the interim. With the power turned off can you push the Y truck over far enough to pop the pit plate out? Dirty rollers, Y belt tension, warn Y gear?
Clint

[djarboe]

The bit plate does not come out except to check the bit length so when carving the Y truck never goes that far over. It worked ok when you installed the bit to start the carve so something happened in the interim. With the power turned off can you push the Y truck over far enough to pop the pit plate out? Dirty rollers, Y belt tension, warn Y gear?
Clint

Well, I cleaned and lubed the rails. I also checked, and the Z truck does not hit any of the cables. When I easily slide it all the way over the Z truck seems to stop just a little short,like it is hitting something, the bit plate starts to come out and stops short. If I push it over with a fair amount of force, the bit plate pops out just fine. I can manually operate the bit plate, and it has no feel of resistance. I'll go look at it again.

[bergerud]

It is sometimes the z motor which hits the wires to the cut motor (from the cover switch) that are up in the top right corner of the cover. Hard to see.

[djarboe]

It is sometimes the z motor which hits the wires to the cut motor (from the cover switch) that are up in the top right corner of the cover. Hard to see.
Having taken the top off to check/clean the Z truck encoder, I was careful to replace the wires and cable from hitting the Z motor. Will check it again... nothing to lose at this point.

Well, I checked, and no cables or any other wiring is contacting the Z truck motor/sensor housing.

[Digitalwoodshop]

It will be the very back Z Servo Motor Cooling FINS that hit the right cover switch wires. If that wire is not pushed into the very back corner then it will hit in a area that you will NOT be able to see... Trust us... It has happened to everyone here at one time or another...

AL

[djarboe]

Well, my friends/mentors, it is done. I don't know what I did... possibly a combination of things. I cleaned/lubed the rails, checked the wires and cable behind the Z truck motor. Then, I vacuumed what dust I could see.
Oh, I also raised the cutting bit just a fraction in my rock chuck. The end result was that the carver started working, and the bit worked just fine.

The only "problem" (trivial) is that I had to modify the original model for only the cutout. Consequently once it remeasured, it was off on the length by about 1/16th". So I have some careful shaving to do. Well worth it!

I think it was working as a result of a combination of all your inputs. Gratitude to all contributors!

Dave

[Digitalwoodshop]

That brings up a point... you raised the cutting bit in the Rock Chuck... It is a known problem that a 1/8th cutting bit placed in the ROCK chuck TOO LONG will cause the machine to reject the bit.... The Firmware or the Operating system of the Carving Machine is tuned for the CT Chuck and the CT 1/8th inch cutting bit with a flange. THAT length is programmed into the system and it as in the machine expects that length. IF you put the bit in a ROCK too Long, the machine does a "Tilt" like the old Video Games... So by shortening the bit in the ROCK that may have actually fixed it....

Or not... Another WAG.... Wild AL Guess... Make it longer and see if it goes "tilt"...

AL

[djarboe]

That brings up a point... you raised the cutting bit in the Rock Chuck... It is a known problem that a 1/8th cutting bit placed in the ROCK chuck TOO LONG will cause the machine to reject the bit.... The Firmware or the Operating system of the Carving Machine is tuned for the CT Chuck and the CT 1/8th inch cutting bit with a flange. THAT length is programmed into the system and it as in the machine expects that length. IF you put the bit in a ROCK too Long, the machine does a "Tilt" like the old Video Games... So by shortening the bit in the ROCK that may have actually fixed it....

Or not... Another WAG.... Wild AL Guess... Make it longer and see if it goes "tilt"...

AL

The bit cutting and carving bits I have I got from the Rock Chuck company, so there is no slot. The did send me a photo about how to set up an LHR bit with the slot, so I used that as my guide. Moving it up in the chuck was just a guess, and perhaps that was the key. I also made sure all the wires and cable were well out of the way. Also, as I mentioned previously, I cleaned and re-oiled the rails. With all the little tricks, etc. there should be a text book put out... or better, a searchable PDF file.

I never had this problem before taking the top off to check the Z truck sensor. Come to think of it, I never had it before my original bit holder self destructed, and for that matter, nor before I put in the Rock Chuck. Coincidence?

Thanks for all your help!

Dave

[lynnfrwd]

With all the little tricks, etc. there should be a text book put out... or better, a searchable PDF file.

Thanks for all your help!

Dave

Go to www.carvewright.com > Support > Type "bit" or "plate" into the Search Support bar at the top > that produces several options including PDF called "Bit Not Touching the Bitplate" and video called "Cleaning & Lubricating the Bitplate".

[SteveNelson46]

Got done with the carving, and put in the cutting bit. Now the flapper starts to come out, and stops before the bit can touch off of it. Checked it, and it moves freely. Went ahead and blew it out with compressed air. Still seems to move freely and tried it again with the same result. So any ideas about what is going on here?

Dave

This is a very common problem and almost always corrected by moving the wires in the far back right corner. The clearances between the Y motor and the wires is very small and very difficult to see. Even with a flashlight. Also, after moving the wires they have a tendency to spring back. With the machine turned off, slide the Y truck to the right until the flapper comes out. Make note of the difficulty of movement in the last inch or so. If it feels soft and "squishy" the Y motor is probably hitting the wires. Also, as you move the truck use a flashlight and watch for wire movement in the back corner. Most of us that have had the problem have removed the cover and glued on a clip to hold the wires out of the way.

[djarboe]

This is a very common problem and almost always corrected by moving the wires in the far back right corner. The clearances between the Y motor and the wires is very small and very difficult to see. Even with a flashlight. Also, after moving the wires they have a tendency to spring back. With the machine turned off, slide the Y truck to the right until the flapper comes out. Make note of the difficulty of movement in the last inch or so. If it feels soft and "squishy" the Y motor is probably hitting the wires. Also, as you move the truck use a flashlight and watch for wire movement in the back corner. Most of us that have had the problem have removed the cover and glued on a clip to hold the wires out of the way.

That approach sounds like a good idea. Thanks!
Dave

[lynnfrwd]

Bit Not Touching the Bit Plate[/URL]/[URL="http://support.carvewright.com/category/carvewright/"]CARVEWRIGHT (http://support.carvewright.com/) / CarveWright Troubleshooting (http://support.carvewright.com/category/carvewright/carvewright-troubleshooting/) / Other Problems (http://support.carvewright.com/category/carvewright/carvewright-troubleshooting/other-problems/) / Bit Not Touching the Bit Plate


Other Problems (http://support.carvewright.com/category/carvewright/carvewright-troubleshooting/other-problems/)

Description of Issue
The machine uses the top surface on the swinging bit touch plate (located at the far right of travel) to locate the position of the bit tip during its homing routine. Failure to touch the top surface of the bit plate results in a “Please Load Bit Error” discussed above.
Possible Causes
Causes include: a bit plate that is not swinging all the way out, obstacles that prevent the Y-truck from moving far enough to the right during the bit touch on the bit plate or a bit plate that is bent out of position.
Troubleshooting Steps


Clean and lubricate the bit plate pivot post and spring. Clean the plate mechanism with compressed air and spray WD40 on the spring. Crank the head all the way up to the top and spry upward at the pivot shaft. Actuate the bit plate several times to let the WD40 penetrate the mechanism.
Make sure that there are no obstacles to the Y-truck moving far enough to the right to actuate the swinging bit plate. Turn the machine off, position the Y-truck on the left near to the keypad, and move Y-truck all the way to the right side of the machine. Pay attention to see if the Y-truck is getting stuck somewhere along the travel. Check for wires or interference with the cover that prevent the Y-truck for moving far enough right. Also check that the screws holding the Z encoder cap are not hitting on the cover at the far right side.
Make sure that there are no obstacles to the Z-truck moving far enough down to touch the top surface of the bit plate.
If none of the above steps solves the issue consult with CarveWright Service.

[lynnfrwd]

Cleaning and lubricating the bitplate VIDEO
http://support.carvewright.com/cleaning-and-lubricating-the-bitplate/ (http://support.carvewright.com/cleaning-and-lubricating-the-bitplate/)


https://youtu.be/uFZoXpstO0c

[djarboe]

Since the machine seems somewhat sensitive to the length of the bit, carving or cutting, it would be really helpful if there was a bit tip to rock chuck distance that I should set. Any suggestions?

Dave

[Digitalwoodshop]

Since the machine seems somewhat sensitive to the length of the bit, carving or cutting, it would be really helpful if there was a bit tip to rock chuck distance that I should set. Any suggestions?

Dave

I use a 1/4 inch locking ring to keep the length the same all the time. The length is going to be the shortest you can make it.

AL

[djarboe]

I use a 1/4 inch locking ring to keep the length the same all the time. The length is going to be the shortest you can make it.

AL
Well, I don't think the locking ring will work on the rock chuck. However, in looking at your photo, I can see that I have been setting my bits a lot longer out of the chuck. Will try that on my next project. Thanks!
Dave

[djarboe]

So, should I change the rock chuck for some other chuck? I don't like the one that originally came with the CW back in 2008, since it was hard to remove and eventually wore out, but bit placement in the rock chuck seems to very tricky.

Dave

[mtylerfl]

So, should I change the rock chuck for some other chuck? I don't like the one that originally came with the CW back in 2008, since it was hard to remove and eventually wore out, but bit placement in the rock chuck seems to very tricky.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I would certainly (and highly) recommend getting the CarveTight Spindle upgrade for your machine! Everything is designed to work with the specific dimensions and specs of the CarveTight spindle (not third-party spindles).

Here is the link to the CarveWright Upgrade webpage:

http://store.carvewright.com/home.php?cat=297

By the way, AL (Digitalwoodshop here on the forum) will likely be interested in buying your old rock chuck. He knows all the in-and-outs of the rock and has good luck with them. Send him a PM in case he doesn't see this posting.

[djarboe]

So, how much is the carve tight spindle going for?

[normrichards]

Lhr may be out of them, they are not showing up on the website at all. Usually that means they are out of stock, I cant remember what the price was.

[lynnfrwd]

Lhr may be out of them, they are not showing up on the website at all. Usually that means they are out of stock, I cant remember what the price was.

$159.99 and yes, we are out of stock.

[bjbethke]

So, should I change the rock chuck for some other chuck? I don't like the one that originally came with the CW back in 2008, since it was hard to remove and eventually wore out, but bit placement in the rock chuck seems to very tricky.

DaveHi; I use two or three brass washers to maintain the spacing between the bit and the rock Chuck. 99 % of the time it works great. hope this helps you, I also replaced all my bits with 1/2 inch shanks where I Can. I also use the brass washers for the new CW chuck. If you are going to junk the rock chuck; I would keep the 1/4 & 1/8 inch collets; if installed right they work great to hold the carbide carving and 1/8 cutting bits, the Collet that CR offers only locks one side of the bit and it can slip with the hard carbide. the new bits that CW sell work great, but are costly- ;)

[djarboe]

Hi; I use two or three brass washers to maintain the spacing between the bit and the rock Chuck. 99 % of the time it works great. hope this helps you, I also replaced all my bits with 1/2 inch shanks where I Can. I also use the brass washers for the new CW chuck. If you are going to junk the rock chuck; I would keep the 1/4 & 1/8 inch collets; if installed right they work great to hold the carbide carving and 1/8 cutting bits, the Collet that CR offers only locks one side of the bit and it can slip with the hard carbide. the new bits that CW sell work great, but are costly- ;)
Can you send me a photo of what you do... it's hard to visualize.
Dave

[Digitalwoodshop]

Yes, if anyone has Rock Chucks that they are not using I do buy them....

Thanks MT :)

AL

[djarboe]

Hi; I use two or three brass washers to maintain the spacing between the bit and the rock Chuck. 99 % of the time it works great. hope this helps you, I also replaced all my bits with 1/2 inch shanks where I Can. I also use the brass washers for the new CW chuck. If you are going to junk the rock chuck; I would keep the 1/4 & 1/8 inch collets; if installed right they work great to hold the carbide carving and 1/8 cutting bits, the Collet that CR offers only locks one side of the bit and it can slip with the hard carbide. the new bits that CW sell work great, but are costly- ;)
Since it looks like the new chucks from LHR are sold out. Please, can you send me a photo of what you are talking about with the brass washers.
Dave

[djarboe]

Can ANYONE please give me some guidance on how to set my bit length in my Rock Chuck? PLEASE!

[mtylerfl]

Hi Dave,

BJB and AL should be able to give you some tips, since they both use the rock. Maybe send both a PM or give AL a call (his phone number is on his website).

[henry1]

Yes, if anyone has Rock Chucks that they are not using I do buy them....

Thanks MT :)

AL
does he still exist for selling parts

[bjbethke]

Can ANYONE please give me some guidance on how to set my bit length in my Rock Chuck? PLEASE!

For your carving and cutting bits, It might be best to buy the new CW bits. The rock collet will hold the bit in place or paint a mark on your bit. There is a cam in the Rock chuck that tightens the bit, make sure you don't tighten on the split in the collet or the bit will fly out. The new chucks work the same way. I added some photos. I find the rock collet holds the bit better then three split collets.

[djarboe]

For your carving and cutting bits, It might be best to buy the new CW bits. The rock collet will hold the bit in place or paint a mark on your bit. There is a cam in the Rock chuck that tightens the bit, make sure you don't tighten on the split in the collet or the bit will fly out. The new chucks work the same way. I added some photos. I find the rock collet holds the bit better then three split collets.
Unfortunately, LHR says they are sold out on the CW chuck. I will look at the CW bits. Thanks!

[djarboe]

For your carving and cutting bits, It might be best to buy the new CW bits. The rock collet will hold the bit in place or paint a mark on your bit. There is a cam in the Rock chuck that tightens the bit, make sure you don't tighten on the split in the collet or the bit will fly out. The new chucks work the same way. I added some photos. I find the rock collet holds the bit better then three split collets.
In looking at your photos, please explain the purpose of the brass washers.

[SteveNelson46]

Here is a link for purchasing router bit stop collars. I haven't purchased from this vendor but the stop collars I have are similar and work pretty good.

http://www.infinitytools.com/Bearing-Stop-Collar-for-1_4-Shank-Router-Bit/productinfo/SC-002/?gclid=CPrcppu-zcwCFZRlfgodhm8EhQ

(http://www.infinitytools.com/Bearing-Stop-Collar-for-1_4-Shank-Router-Bit/productinfo/SC-002/?gclid=CPrcppu-zcwCFZRlfgodhm8EhQ)Install them on each router bit used in the project before carving. Even better, install one on all of your router bits.

[bjbethke]

In looking at your photos, please explain the purpose of the brass washers.

When you first start your carving. The CW unit requires you to load all the bits one at a time to load the data in the CW controller for the project. The washers or a collar is used to maintain the same spacing when it is used to make the carving. Brass is soft and won't damage your collet or the bits. The old collets that were used when the CW unit was designed - kept the bits locked in the collets.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Can ANYONE please give me some guidance on how to set my bit length in my Rock Chuck? PLEASE!

As far as I know the only bit used in a rock chuck that is sensitive to length is the 1/8th inch cutting bit. And for that bit, I have found that the shortest length I can get and still lock the set screw on the ring will work. The set screw is very close to where the cutting edge starts.

See my picture where the locking rings sits on the 1/8th inch cutting bit. Sometimes it is trial and error. The machine will FAULT OUT if the bit is TOO LONG and it hits the flipping plate before it expects it... Sometimes bending the plate down.

All the other bits I use the locking ring just to keep the length consistent when doing multi bit projects.

I do the bulk of my Plastic Tag cutting with the very cheap eBay Circuit Board bits held in a Roto Zip holder. I use the 1/16th end mill bit but tell the machine I am using the 1/4 inch bull nose bit to keep the cut rate in 1st gear. I then just call up the depth and even do multi pass if needed.

Never use the Roto Zip BITS in the machine, they are too soft and can bend then being out of shape damage the machine and even start a fire.... :(


AL

[djarboe]

As far as I know the only bit used in a rock chuck that is sensitive to length is the 1/8th inch cutting bit. And for that bit, I have found that the shortest length I can get and still lock the set screw on the ring will work. The set screw is very close to where the cutting edge starts.

See my picture where the locking rings sits on the 1/8th inch cutting bit. Sometimes it is trial and error. The machine will FAULT OUT if the bit is TOO LONG and it hits the flipping plate before it expects it... Sometimes bending the plate down.

All the other bits I use the locking ring just to keep the length consistent when doing multi bit projects.

I do the bulk of my Plastic Tag cutting with the very cheap eBay Circuit Board bits held in a Roto Zip holder. I use the 1/16th end mill bit but tell the machine I am using the 1/4 inch bull nose bit to keep the cut rate in 1st gear. I then just call up the depth and even do multi pass if needed.

Never use the Roto Zip BITS in the machine, they are too soft and can bend then being out of shape damage the machine and even start a fire.... :(


AL

Interesting. When the Rock Chuck guy was still answering the phone, I asked him about the bit set up. He recommended just leaving the carving bit in place, without using the cutting bit. He said the machine would readjust automatically when the cutting bit touched the bit plate during the actual cutting phase. Do you agree with this?
He also sent me a photo of how to position the slot in the bit when using CW bits. He shows just placing the top of the slot just at the bottom edge of the Rock Chuck. Does this make sense?

Dave

[DocWheeler]

Interesting. When the Rock Chuck guy was still answering the phone, I asked him about the bit set up. He recommended just leaving the carving bit in place, without using the cutting bit. He said the machine would readjust automatically when the cutting bit touched the bit plate during the actual cutting phase. Do you agree with this?
He also sent me a photo of how to position the slot in the bit when using CW bits. He shows just placing the top of the slot just at the bottom edge of the Rock Chuck. Does this make sense?

Dave

Ron's suggestions work well with the possible exception of the1/8" straight bit in my experience.
If the bits are about the same length for the project there is no problem.
If one bit is extra long, the machine may produce a Z-axis error because it hits the bit-plate when it was not expected.

As far as positioning the notch in the bit, leaving it below the bolt makes it extra-long which I try to avoid.
If the notch is turned toward the cam that clamps the bit, it causes problems, but I've been doing it for years.

[djarboe]

Ron's suggestions work well with the possible exception of the1/8" straight bit in my experience.
If the bits are about the same length for the project there is no problem.
If one bit is extra long, the machine may produce a Z-axis error because it hits the bit-plate when it was not expected.

As far as positioning the notch in the bit, leaving it below the bolt makes it extra-long which I try to avoid.
If the notch is turned toward the cam that clamps the bit, it causes problems, but I've been doing it for years.


Where is the cam? I thought it was just a split collar that the bolt through it tightens. I'm still using 1/4" shank diameter bits. Are just this size bits still available?

I also have a replacement Rock Chuck adapter that takes 1/2" diameter shanks.