Unique clock

[DickB]

I am working on this clock for a customer. Do you notice anything unusual about it?

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[oscarl48]

Very nice looking clock. Love the motif.

I had to look it up. Those darn kooky French. Lol. I was unfamiliar with a decimal clock. Learned something new today. Thank you.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Very Nice... Learned something new too... :)

AL

[xchief807]

Nice work how did you do the number set up I would love to do a clock just not sure how to get the number set up so its right.

[bergerud]

Strange 10 hour clock with 100 minutes to the hour. Is that going to be 10 hours a day or 20?

Edit: Ok, a metric clock. Love Google.

[Chip]

Nice project! I had to look that one up.:confused:

[DickB]

OK, so how would you make a mechanism to operate a metric clock?

[Digitalwoodshop]

OK, so how would you make a mechanism to operate a metric clock?

Since a 12 hour clock is based on a 360 degree divided by 12.... If you used the very same clock works, 360 degrees is divided up into 10.... Just Interpolated different...

Is that correct? Or am I off in left field...?

My background in electronics began in 1977 with my first analog gun fire control computer with lots of dials and hand cranks... Used to aim the 5 inch gun in it's 12 mile range.

AL

[xchief807]

What I was looking for was some sort of PTN you could put on your board place your numbers then remove the PTN. If that makes sense.

[bergerud]

What I was looking for was some sort of PTN you could put on your board place your numbers then remove the PTN. If that makes sense.

Here is how I would do it. In the mpc, with the snap grid on, I move the whole group so that the spot for each number is at the center of the board. Select the next number click both the center hor. and ver. buttons twice each. On and off. The number is now centered. In the carving list, drag it into the group. Now select all in the group, move the whole group to put the next vertex on center. Repeat.

[DickB]

Since a 12 hour clock is based on a 360 degree divided by 12.... If you used the very same clock works, 360 degrees is divided up into 10.... Just Interpolated different...

Is that correct? Or am I off in left field...?

My background in electronics began in 1977 with my first analog gun fire control computer with lots of dials and hand cranks... Used to aim the 5 inch gun in it's 12 mile range.

ALBut regular clockworks divide seconds by 60, minutes by 60, and hours by 12. We need to divide by 100, 100, and 10. Regular clockworks can't be used. Also, a metric second is shorter than a second, so we need a different timebase.

[xchief807]

I'm not real sure what you mean is there a way to take what you did and make it a PTN then all I would have to do is make the circle with the lines the size I want on the board then add the numbers 1- 12 and then delete the PTN and all that would be left is the numbers in the right placement.

[Digitalwoodshop]

But regular clockworks divide seconds by 60, minutes by 60, and hours by 12. We need to divide by 100, 100, and 10. Regular clockworks can't be used. Also, a metric second is shorter than a second, so we need a different timebase.

Yes, my thinking was flawed.... The more I think about it... Interesting clock.... I wonder if klockit.com offers the works? I have some 24 hour clock works.

klockit@klockit.com

AL

[DickB]

I'm not real sure what you mean is there a way to take what you did and make it a PTN then all I would have to do is make the circle with the lines the size I want on the board then add the numbers 1- 12 and then delete the PTN and all that would be left is the numbers in the right placement.Lots of ways to do this. Here is mine. Open the attached mpc. Click on the group "clock layout". Grab a yellow corner and drag to your desired size. Enter numbers one at a time, and place them on the intersection of the guidelines as I did with the numeral 1.

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[DickB]

Yes, my thinking was flawed.... The more I think about it... Interesting clock.... I wonder if klockit.com offers the works? I have some 24 hour clock works.

klockit@klockit.com

ALIf you find one, let me know!

[DickB]

BTW my customer has warned me that there are many so-called "metric" clocks for sale, like this one http://www.amazon.com/METRIC-metric-system-timing-interval/dp/B00821OC3K
but all they have done is put a metric face on a standard clock mechanism, which is not correct at all. (Read the review.) I have not been able to find a true metric clock or mechanism, nor has my customer, which is which I was approached. I have a solution, but if there is a clock or meck available, I'm all ears.

[bergerud]

Is this one a fake metric clock as well? (I was also sucked in by the amazon clock. Had to delete my post!))

http://www.cafepress.ca/+metric_clock_with_dashes,30924592

[DickB]

Is this one a fake metric clock as well? (I was also sucked in by the amazon clock. Had to delete my post!))

http://www.cafepress.ca/+metric_clock_with_dashes,30924592I believe it is a fake; if not my customer would buy one (for less money than I am charging!).

DocWheeler, let's do the math. A standard clock has 60*60*24 seconds in a day, or 86,400 seconds per day. A metric clock has 100*100*10 seconds in a day, or 100,000 seconds per day. So a metric second is 86,400/100,000, or .864 standard seconds. The first problem is to get a clock to "tick" at .864 seconds rather than one second (that is not 50/60, or .8333). Second, the minute hand on a standard clock moves 1/60th of a rotation for every 1 rotation of the second hand. The minute hand of a metric clock moves only 1/100th of a rotation for 1 rotation of the second hand. They are completely different animals.

[Wood Art 1]

So, it isn't a standard clock motor. Isn't this just a gearing problem? Determine the motor RPM and calculate the gearing for the 3 functions? May have to make the clock larger to fit all the gears in. I'm going to bed now! Will think on it in the AM.

[xchief807]

This is great just like the other one but I can't place this on my board and use it as a guide. If my board size changes then it screws it all up. If it was a PTN then I could set it place the numbers and then delete just the PTN and be left with the numbers in the right position.

[bergerud]

You can resize the vectors that Dick and I made. Select all and drag a yellow corner handle. It works the same as a pattern would.

My method is a little work but it precisely centers each number where it should be.

[xchief807]

Yes I tried that and it works the problem I have is that when I try to change the board size that the clock PTN is on it throws the whole thing off. To use this I am restricted to the board size that it is on.

[bergerud]

In Dick's mpc the circle is centered. Remove the centering before you change the board size. After the board size is changed, select all and do the group centering.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Klockit sent a reply to my eMail and they do not have a metric works.

AL

[xchief807]

Thank you I never would have figured that one out. Thank god for this forum and the people on it I wouldn't be able to do half the things I do without it.

[DickB]

Klockit sent a reply to my eMail and they do not have a metric works.

AL
Thanks Al.

[DickB]

In Dick's mpc the circle is centered. Remove the centering before you change the board size. After the board size is changed, select all and do the group centering.
I often find selecting all, then copy and paste to a new project works better than changing board size.

[DickB]

OK, so one idea that I had for metric clock works was to modify one of my pendulum clocks. Not too hard to design gear sets to divide by 100. And I could shorten the pendulum and reprogram the electronics to operate at the shorter metric second period. Unfortunately, the pendulum clock was too expensive for my customer (I don't give them away, and I would need to invest considerable design time). So, I thought about a synchronous motor-driven clock like my Naked Clock. But synchronous motors speeds are based off power line frequency, and I didn't think I could find one that would operate at .864 seconds or some multiple. So I need a motor that I can very accurately program its speed. I did come up with a solution, but what are your ideas?

[normrichards]

So I do not understand why anyone would want a clock like this? Who wants to learn a whole new way of keeping time? I can see a 24 hour clock but this?

[Digitalwoodshop]

So I do not understand why anyone would want a clock like this? Who wants to learn a whole new way of keeping time? I can see a 24 hour clock but this?

It's like a binary clock.... a novelty. This is a Mid 80's Navy Computer that you talked to it in binary.... Univac UYK-20. I taught this at Great Lakes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_clock

[DickB]

So I do not understand why anyone would want a clock like this? Who wants to learn a whole new way of keeping time? I can see a 24 hour clock but this?I don't entirely understand either, except for the novelty, but that doesn't stop me from taking on the commission!

OK, if the motor question is too hard, try this next one. These wings are part of another unique clock that I am building for a customer. To what object do they belong? Hint: I was able to find a free 3D model online, so it is a popular object. I imported the .stl via Pattern Sculptor, which is my new favorite software program. I was very pleased with the alignment on this double-sided carve.

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[DianMayfield]

First glance looked like piano keys, but wrong pattern. Kinda looks like turbine vanes

[normrichards]

I am thinking its a time flies clock?

[oscarl48]

I got a kick from this. I guess there are more than one metric crazy out there. This person designed a digital version but it does show there is hardware out there to make a metric clock possible. Maybe the adruino computer to control an electromagnet to keep the time.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Metric-Clock-Take-2/

[DickB]

Maybe the adruino computer to control an electromagnet to keep the time.Close. I'm using a 28BYJ-48 stepper motor and driver that was built for Arduino and similar platforms. These motors and drivers are widely available and inexpensive at less than $3. I use a TI MSP 430 Launchpad, not Arduino, which I have used for other projects. For those not familiar with stepper motors, this particular one is a unipolar motor with four coils. Energizing the coils in the correct sequence causes the motor to rotate either clockwise or counterclockwise in precise increments or steps. By timing the pulses correctly, the motor can be made to rotate a second hand at exactly the correct speed for a metric clock. (The math and algorithm is somewhat interesting.)

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Many CNC machines use stepper motors. Ours does not - ours uses servo motors.

[DickB]

Here are a couple of hints on the wings. Mine are larger than the original object. And the object is from a popular children's book.

[DickB]

No one playing? I guess another hint is needed.

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This was my first time using the 1/16" long bit carving 1.5" of MDF.

[bergerud]

We do not know anything about Harry Potter stuff!

[Sliverfoot]

It's the golden Snitch!

[DickB]

Yes. The customer gave a very good description and drawings of what was wanted. The body is basically sliced in half, and the clock's face put on it.

[DickB]

Construction is completed.

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[oscarl48]

Pretty cool. Great looking piece.

[SharonB]

Dick, I truly like your design. It is always a pleasure to have the opportunity to see the projects that comes out of your shop.

[DickB]

Dick, I truly like your design. It is always a pleasure to have the opportunity to see the projects that comes out of your shop.Thanks. The customer really had a lot to do with this one. And, the wings and body came from a 3D model someone else created.

[Sliverfoot]

Very cool. Wonderful job Dick.

[ktjwilliams]

So time flies when being chased by wizards !!

[DickB]

Primer, sanding, primer, sanding, body putty, sanding...

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[DickB]

I've made lake maps and I've made clocks, but I never thought to put the two together until a customer requested one. I like the idea - I ma have to make one for myself.

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[bergerud]

Great idea. With all those lake cottages back east, there could be a large market for those. (Hard market to get to I suppose.)

[DickB]

Harry Potter clock is finished.

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[mikemi]

Great job Dick, very nicely done.

Mike

[DickB]

Thanks.

Before I developed the microcontroller circuit that I use in my own clock designs, I had developed a more robust (than other published circuits) op amp circuit for electromagnetic pendulums. Other clock builders have contacted me and purchased electronics kits to drive their clocks. A number of builders of Clayton Boyer's Toucan clock have done so. Last March, Rolf Beuttenmuller used my circuit to drive a clock that he built which was designed by Alfred Mifsud. The plans for this clock were recently published in a special Scroll Saw Woodorking and Crafts magazine edition Gizmos and Gadgets, and I am listed as a source of electronics: http://www.scrollsawer.com/2015/10/02/gizmos-gadgets-2015/ So in addition to making sawdust, I have a mini electronics production line going.

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Mr. Mifsud's design is a clever simplification that basically uses no gears. I may have to steal it for a future clock project.

[oscarl48]

Sweet. I just picked up the mag last week and couldn't figure out where to get the electronics.

Congrats by the way.

[DickB]

Back to the original project.

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[oscarl48]

That is really cool in a nerdy kind of way. Great looking project though.

[DickB]

Here is the finished clock:
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This unique clock also has a unique mechanism. I used three stepper motors, one for each hand, rather than one motor and lots of gears. Here you can see the three motors with their driving gears. The hours shaft with its driven gear has been inserted and meshes with the hours motor.
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Here the minutes and seconds shafts have been inserted.
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The motors are driven by the driver boards that came with them. These are controlled by a TI MSP430 microcontroller. I programmed the microcontroller to step each motor at the proper speed to make a metric clock. A pushbutton switch allows a person to align the hands, set the current time, and start the clock.

The red board is actually a development board called Launchpad. It is typically used for development only. Often the complete project has many more components, so a unique circuit board is designed to hold only the microcontroller and the other added components, eliminating the development tools hardware. In this case, other than the driver boards, there are only two other components. The Launchpad is inexpensive - it would have cost me considerably more to get a custom circuit board made. And, this is really a prototype. So, in this case, I just used the Launchpad. If I build more (it appears there may be a market, as true metric clocks are scarce) I will design a custom board.
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The Launchpad is USB powered (the cable is not shown in the photo, but you can perhaps spot the mini USB port on the red board). The motor drivers require 5 v power, which I stole from a convenient test point on the Launchpad.

[bergerud]

That is very cool. Nice solution. I imagined it would have had to be much more complicated. How well will it keep time?

[DickB]

It uses the same watch crystal timebase as my pendulum clocks, as do most watches and clocks for that matter. Typical specs are 10 ppm (parts per million), so worst case about a second per day. Some crystals operate very close to spec. This one is within a second after 5 metric hours (so how many standard hours is that?). We'll see after a day or two.

You might enjoy the math needed to figure out how to time each step of each motor. Watch crystals are miniature tuning forks set to a frequency of 32768 Hz, which is a power of two. Microcontrollers use binary arithmetic, so it is straightforward to derive a 1-second timebase or "tick" from a watch crystal timebase. Metric seconds are .864 standard seconds, so the nice binary arithmetic goes out the window. Also, the stepper motors have 32 steps per revolution with an internal gear train often stated as a 1:64 ratio, but actually the ratio is slightly less at 1:63.68395. So some floating point math in the microcontroller is required.

While developing the code, I first used the parameters for a standard clock, because it was difficult getting my head around the whole metric deal. It was easier for me to confirm the hands were moving in proportion as they should. I made up some paper standard clock faces to assist. Once I got the standard clock working, I plugged in the metric constants and it worked.

So actually what I have is a fully programmable clock. Want 24 hours per revolution rather than 12? No problem. Want it to run backwards? No problem. Want the second hand to jump in intervals rather than continuous? No problem.

Actually, what might be cool is a clock with both metric and standard markings, and hands that alternate between metric and standard time every 15 seconds or so. Hmmm...

[normrichards]

I still cannot grasp how to tell what time it is? LOL We would need a lcd screen interpreter clock to go with it.

[DickB]

I still cannot grasp how to tell what time it is? LOL We would need a lcd screen interpreter clock to go with it.Ha! You read it like a standard clock, so in the photo it is 3:19:60. 10:00:00 is midnight, and 5:00:00 is noon. So hour three is more than halfway between midnight noon, or somewhere in the 7-8 am vicinity.

Here is one dual clock that may help: http://www.metricclock.com/

[bergerud]

"Also, the stepper motors have 32 steps per revolution with an internal gear train often stated as a 1:64 ratio, but actually the ratio is slightly less at 1:63.68395."

Seems a bit strange. Are they not gears?

[DickB]

"Also, the stepper motors have 32 steps per revolution with an internal gear train often stated as a 1:64 ratio, but actually the ratio is slightly less at 1:63.68395."

Seems a bit strange. Are they not gears?
By coincidence I recently read a paper from a trade magazine that discussed this: http://static.micromo.com/media/wysiwyg/Technical-library/Gearheads/25_gearhead_construction_use.pdf

If you use gear ratios with an integer ratio, say 3:1, for example a 10 tooth spur with a 30 tooth pinion, the same sets of gear teeth will constantly mesh. If there is a defect in one of the teeth on one gear, it will cause wear in the same spot on the companion gear.
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If you use a non-integer ratio, the wear will be more evenly distributed and the gear set should last longer.
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The stepper motor I am using has gear set pairs of the following:



wheel
pinion
ratio



32
9
3.555555556



22
11
2.000000000



26
9
2.888888889



31
10
3.100000000





63.683950617
final



Oddly, the second set is an integer ratio. Well, I didn't design the thing; I'm just using it.

[bergerud]

Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

It still seems very strange to design a stepper motor without a final integer gear ratio.

[DickB]

It still seems very strange to design a stepper motor without a final integer gear ratio.I agree. I basically have to keep track of the error - the difference between the ideal 64 steps and actual 63.639.. - and add an additional step when the error is equal to or greater than 1.

[DickB]

Design News accepted and published my metric clock Gadget Freak submission:http://www.designnews.com/author.asp… (http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1362&doc_id=279385) I built this clock for a customer in the UK, knowing that I would spend way more time on it than what I charged him. But it was a fun project, and I figured that it had a good chance of being accepted as a Gadget which, when published, earns a $500 stipend.

This is my third published Gadget.

[bergerud]

Outstanding project, write up, and presentation. Truly amazing Dick. Thanks also for educating us on metric time. I had never even heard of it before.

[DickB]

A customer asked to have a clock made, posting this picture and story:
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"My father is retiring in April 2016 after decades of working as a software engineer. He started at Digital Equipment Corp in the late 70s. The original plant overlooked the mill tower (pictured) in Maynard, Massachusetts. At the employee's 20 year anniversary with the company they got a mantle clock with a small replica of the mill in it. Digital equip Corp was sold 3 months before my dad got "his clock." I'd love to be able to give him what he earned so many years ago... My mom says she thought the clock was metal in glass, my dad appreciates natural materials so I think it would look amazing in wood."

I said I could do it, although I wasn't sure how I was going to fabricate the bell tower on top.

Later, she found a photo of one of the original clocks:
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Good - no bell tower!

I just finished the clock today:
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The customer is going to add a small metal plaque.

I designed the clock using several rectangular carve regions and the 3D Extrude and Sweep tools. I did use my table and band saws to make the miters and a few other cuts. There are 14 pieces to the clock and three clock movements.

[oscarl48]

Very cool clock.

[SteveNelson46]

Time for you to go grasshopper!

[cestout]

Beautiful clock, but does it have wooden gears?
Clint

[SharonB]

Your clock looks so much like the original that, if it had a "metal" finish, you probably couldn't tell them apart. Excellent design.

[Gary Koval]

DickB,
that really came out well, the customer and Father are going to be impressed for sure,
Gary

[normrichards]

I love seeing new and interesting things like this. Great job!

[DickB]

Working on another unique clock. The customer provided a CAD file of this Audi R8 wheel. I used Pattern Sculptor to import the .stl and then made a few changes. (BTW did I mention this feature of Pattern Sculptor has become one of my favorites? It allowed me to easily take on this project. And, so many free 3D models available!) Material is MDF - the wheel will be painted black. About 17" diameter (near full scale).

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[Sliverfoot]

What a cool idea! Working for the last 40 years in the automotive service industry car stuff can be cool.

[DickB]

Here is the finished clock:

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[normrichards]

That is one cool clock.

[lynnfrwd]

Some people are going to struggle telling time with this one, but looks pretty cool.

[myshop1044]

Dick thought you used Common Core math to lay the letters.

[DianMayfield]

Ah, it's European, must be that metric clock :)

[DickB]

This is a geared version of a metric clock I'm just finishing. (If you don't know what a metric clock is, look back to the start of this thread.) The clock is 18" in diameter. This one is going to a mathematician friend of a customer.

As far as I know, no one else makes true metric clocks. Not many people would want one, but it would be nice to get in touch with those who do!

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[want2b]

Gorgeous! I am absolutely astounded by what you create. Just figuring out the gears and layout on paper is a monumental task. Then doing the design for all the pieces to be cut by the carver blows my mind. Thx so much for sharing with us.
Rick H

[DickB]

Gorgeous! I am absolutely astounded by what you create. Just figuring out the gears and layout on paper is a monumental task. Then doing the design for all the pieces to be cut by the carver blows my mind. Thx so much for sharing with us.
Rick HThanks! A metric clock is not too hard - three pairs of gears ratio 1:10 and one pair 1:1 to reverse direction. Member JLT posted a nifty gear designer that I use.

BTW no paper involved. I use Designer to lay out multiple parts, then copy and paste portions to .mpc project files to machine.

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[oscarl48]

Dick, that is very impressive. The design and using designer as your compositing tool.