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View Full Version : New Rotary Litho finished.



sunmiztres
08-21-2015, 12:02 AM
I wanted to make a Litho of one of my favorite people and also include a base that said something meaningful. I used the inlay technique Michael showed us in July's POM.

Chip
08-21-2015, 09:55 AM
You did a great job on a fantastic subject!

Bigtyme
08-21-2015, 09:59 AM
Wow!! Super job...

aokweld101
08-21-2015, 10:09 AM
That looks real nice, I set my depth at .113 and height at 450 and it varies on different pieces of cvpc pipe... what are your magic numbers..

sunmiztres
08-21-2015, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the nice comments. I usually use depth at .180 and height of 400.

bergerud
08-21-2015, 01:42 PM
I have to comment on these "numbers". The depth is certainly important and is an absolute number. The height, on the other hand, is not an absolute number. It is a percentage. Normally, when a pattern is created, it has a length, width, depth, and a height which puts the highest point at the top of the board. There is no real number for this initial height, it is just 100% of what it is. If you change the height to 50, it will drop by 1/2.

If a pattern's length or width is altered, the height is automatically also altered. For example, if one takes a pattern and scales the length and/or width down by 1/2, the height also drops to 1/2 of what it was. If you want to scale the top of the pattern back to where it was, you would have to change the height to 200. Also, if you change the depth of a pattern, the height also drops. For example, if you double the depth, you would have to change the height to 200 to get the pattern back up to the surface.

The percentage one has to use to compensate for altering a pattern depends on how the pattern was altered and so, is not an absolute number. For lithos, the depth number, of course, is very important and a rule of thumb for depths makes sense. The height, on the other hand, is relative to the specific pattern and there cannot be a rule of thumb for that. It just needs to be adjusted so the pattern comes to the top. (You could always choose 999!)

I hope this make sense.

rcdages
08-21-2015, 03:50 PM
Out standing litho carving !!!!!

aokweld101
08-21-2015, 05:01 PM
Dan, thanks for your input, it was a hit and miss on the rotary jig for me I got 9 pieces that were good enough to keep out of 2 lengths of pipe and I tried the depth on different pieces of 10" pipe, the .180 went though the wall into the pipe, so I abandon that idea at .180 it might of been at the beginning that my pipe wasn't centered and you helped me with centering the pipe.... thanks

mikemi
08-21-2015, 06:12 PM
What a fantastic job you did. I have had the rotary about a year now and still haven't had the time to work with it. A project like this makes me want to go to the big box store, buy some pipe and get busy.
Thanks for sharing your great project.

Mike

SharonB
08-21-2015, 11:32 PM
That is an outstanding litho... both in your subject matter and the design of your base.

Rob Mulgrew
08-22-2015, 12:41 AM
Looks great. Really nice job and great subject matter!

mtylerfl
08-22-2015, 07:59 AM
Beautiful! I love how you incorporated the inlay into the project, too. Wonderful project. Thank you very much for your inspiration!

CarverJerry
08-27-2015, 09:18 AM
Great job. Looks Beautiful. Thanks for sharing it with us.

CNC Carver
08-27-2015, 09:58 AM
That is wonderful. Our minister will be done with us soon I was trying to think of something to give him. This will work wonderful.
Jeff

rcdages
08-27-2015, 01:02 PM
The litho as it has been stated and I agree it is out standing.

Where did you get the photo or picture of Jesus from ?

aokweld101
08-27-2015, 04:26 PM
I have to comment on these "numbers". The depth is certainly important and is an absolute number. The height, on the other hand, is not an absolute number. It is a percentage. Normally, when a pattern is created, it has a length, width, depth, and a height which puts the highest point at the top of the board. There is no real number for this initial height, it is just 100% of what it is. If you change the height to 50, it will drop by 1/2.

If a pattern's length or width is altered, the height is automatically also altered. For example, if one takes a pattern and scales the length and/or width down by 1/2, the height also drops to 1/2 of what it was. If you want to scale the top of the pattern back to where it was, you would have to change the height to 200. Also, if you change the depth of a pattern, the height also drops. For example, if you double the depth, you would have to change the height to 200 to get the pattern back up to the surface.

The percentage one has to use to compensate for altering a pattern depends on how the pattern was altered and so, is not an absolute number. For lithos, the depth number, of course, is very important and a rule of thumb for depths makes sense. The height, on the other hand, is relative to the specific pattern and there cannot be a rule of thumb for that. It just needs to be adjusted so the pattern comes to the top. (You could always choose 999!)

I hope this make sense.

Dan. I was asking this question because I"m not grasping the concept If I made a bigger carve on on a project it distorts the height so if I make the depth .25. and the height at 999 do I get the best that I can out of that pattern ?

bergerud
08-27-2015, 05:32 PM
If you make a carve bigger, the height will increase only until the top of the pattern gets to the board surface. In your case, the bow of the ship has reached 0.00 and so changing the height to anything higher would make no difference. It us already at the top. (In fact, your pattern has been scaled so much that a height of only 12 gets the bow to the surface.) The only way to get more out of the pattern is to make it deeper.


(Sorry to hijack your thread Sunmiztres.)

aokweld101
08-27-2015, 06:11 PM
I did the pattern at .5 deep and height at 999 would I harm the machine doing a carve that deep, I have always used the default at .25 It looks a lot better at .5 deep My project has been running all day it at 52 percent done would I be better to stop the project or to stop the project and tape over and start over again to save the wood, but I don't like doing again because of the tape gumming up the bit.

bergerud
08-27-2015, 06:40 PM
There is nothing wrong with carving 1/2" deep. Since it is almost all deeper than what you are doing, you could just re-carve over what you have.

aokweld101
08-27-2015, 07:02 PM
Dan, I just looked at the project and it's at 70 percent done how do I go about starting the project to do the calibration to do the .5 carve ?

sunmiztres
08-27-2015, 07:16 PM
The litho as it has been stated and I agree it is out standing.

Where did you get the photo or picture of Jesus from ?

Glad you like it. I found the picture not copyrighted on the net.

bergerud
08-27-2015, 07:26 PM
Dan, I just looked at the project and it's at 70 percent done how do I go about starting the project to do the calibration to do the .5 carve ?

Abort, start all over again. Measure the board and load the 0.5 deep project. If it is the same pattern just deeper, it will carve over what you had. You may need some masking tape to help the machine measure the board. Just give it a try and see what happens.

(Sorry again Sunmiztres!)

aokweld101
08-27-2015, 07:56 PM
I apologize also, I have been on this Carve that I've been doing for six weeks, I hope someone has learned something about Dan and my correspondence.

rcdages
08-27-2015, 09:51 PM
Thank you for attaching the File

sunmiztres
08-27-2015, 11:13 PM
I apologize also, I have been on this Carve that I've been doing for six weeks, I hope someone has learned something about Dan and my correspondence.

Not a problem whatsoever. No need to be sorry :)

aokweld101
08-28-2015, 05:48 AM
I just looked at your size of material and the part off I was on the understanding that it is the part off should be the same as the diameter of the pipe, If I'm wrong or right someone will chime in..

bergerud
08-28-2015, 09:05 AM
I just looked at your size of material and the part off I was on the understanding that it is the part off should be the same as the diameter of the pipe, If I'm wrong or right someone will chime in..


Yes, that is strange. Did the pipe get cut off by the machine? I would have made the part off diameter 3.4 or so just to leave a reference mark to help me cut it later.

sunmiztres
08-28-2015, 09:26 AM
Yes, that is strange. Did the pipe get cut off by the machine? I would have made the part off diameter 3.4 or so just to leave a reference mark to help me cut it later.

With my machine the rotary litho does not carve any of the part off. This is why it is set at .5. It leaves me a 1/2 inch at the bottom and at the top.
I actually use a 12" piece when the pattern is set at 10" so that I have at least a couple inches to work with for the base and top. The PVC sits in my base and the top sits over the PVC so I need extra inches so I don't cover the carving. The first litho I did I was expecting the part off to cut a reference point but it did not. It just carves the patterns and that is all. I was then thinking I would change the part off to 1.5 so that it leaves me 1.5 inches at the top and the bottom as that is what I want for the base and top but it still left me .5 inches at the top so I then kept making my PVC longer then what the project calls for so I have room for the top. Is my machine not working correctly?

sunmiztres
08-28-2015, 09:41 AM
Thank you for attaching the File

Robert, If you do use the MPC use a 12" piece of PVC so that it gives you extra pvc for your base and top. I always use a longer piece then what the project calls for. I then cut the pipe to where I want it after I figure out what kind of base and top I want. Bergerud also thinks my machine may not be working correctly with the part off so please change your settings. I don't want you to waste any time and material if you follow my MPC.

aokweld101
08-28-2015, 09:48 AM
When I first have gotten the rotary, Micheal had said to put the cut off at the size of the pipe dia. I assume it depends what size you make your pattern as to what your end length is, all the cpvc was 10" length when I was missing up on the depth of my carve, all the end pieces varies from .05 to 1.25. It seems to work the way I set it up I do a snap to grid and leave a half of inch to the carve I was leary because of the way it was digging into the pipe, if it works why fix it !!

bergerud
08-28-2015, 09:50 AM
The part off diameter is how deep the the machine will carve at the ends. It is how much dowel will be left like big tabs. There are "forbidden" zones at the ends of the virtual dowel in Designer. I think that if the part off (or any part of the pattern) is in these zones, it does not carve it. If your dowel had been longer in Designer, the part offs would have been out of these zones and the machine would have plunged down deep at each end to carve them.

Look closely at the dowel in Designer and see the difference changing the part off diameter makes. I think you got lucky here and avoided disaster.

mtylerfl
08-28-2015, 10:14 AM
I think you got very lucky, too! Could have had a really bad day. For the rotary lithos, you normally want to keep the part-off diameter the same as the pipe itself so it doesn't carve through the pipe during your project run.

bergerud
08-28-2015, 10:23 AM
This raises the question again: Why did the part offs not get carved? Others have noticed this before and we did not resolve it. Why would the part offs show up in Designer (supposed to be WYSIWYG) yet not carve?

aokweld101
08-28-2015, 10:27 AM
If you remember I was having problems with it going through the pipe and I came up with the magical number of .113 on my carves so that might be why the .180 didn't work. It wasn't Constant on the carves

bergerud
08-28-2015, 10:33 AM
I do not think that would make this difference. This is an operation which is or is not performed. Some condition like the pattern being too close to the part offs causes the part offs to be aborted. It may just be a bug, who knows?

aokweld101
08-28-2015, 10:42 AM
Micheal, I was useing a 3" pipe and had the part off at 3" are you saying that is the way I was to do it ?

sunmiztres
08-28-2015, 10:42 AM
I think you got very lucky, too! Could have had a really bad day. For the rotary lithos, you normally want to keep the part-off diameter the same as the pipe itself so it doesn't carve through the pipe during your project run.

For the part offs I have used .5, .75, and 1.5 and it does not make a difference at all when it comes to the carving except the centering of the pattern. With .75 the pattern is centered and it leaves me the same amount on top and bottom. When I used 1.5 the bottom had quite a bit more then the top. I was expecting the dowel part as the videos show but never got them.

Bergerud,
I do see the difference in designer by changing the part off but like I said I never got the part off carved no matter what I used. As far as my pattern running to close to the part off therefor the machine aborting isn't true with my machine because I have made small patterns that are over and inch from the part off and the part off still does not carve. I am thinking it has to be a bug because changing the part off does effect how the pattern is centered.

sunmiztres
08-28-2015, 10:48 AM
If you remember I was having problems with it going through the pipe and I came up with the magical number of .113 on my carves so that might be why the .180 didn't work. It wasn't Constant on the carves

When I carve on PVC with a 1/4 thickness I always take the pattern into the pattern editor because I too have had patterns carve through the PVC. I learned to take the pattern into pattern editor and make sure the depth is correct. Every time I carved through the pvc and then look at the pattern through pattern editor it showed that it would carve through exactly where it did. I then use the raise/lower filter to raise the pattern so that it would not carve through. Since doing this I have not had a carve through using .180 depth.

aokweld101
08-28-2015, 11:01 AM
sunmiztres, the sounds like a good idea, in pattern editor you do use a 1/4 thick material then see what it does in your pattern in the lothopane settings ?

sunmiztres
08-28-2015, 11:02 AM
sunmiztres, the sounds like a good idea, in pattern editor you do use a 1/4 thick material then see what it does in your pattern in the lothopane settings ?


I take the pattern into pattern editor and set the depth to .180 and see if it will carve through. I then use the raise/lower filter and raise the pattern till the carve through disappears and then add .05 extra to be on the safe side and then save to designer.

aokweld101
08-28-2015, 11:06 AM
Never to late to learn a litte more... thank you.

mtylerfl
08-28-2015, 01:20 PM
Micheal, I was useing a 3" pipe and had the part off at 3" are you saying that is the way I was to do it ?

Yes, that is correct. Make the part-off diameter the same as the pipe diameter to make sure no carving takes place outside of the desired carving area (in this case the litho photo area).

dltccf
08-29-2015, 08:37 AM
Yes, that is correct. Make the part-off diameter the same as the pipe diameter to make sure no carving takes place outside of the desired carving area (in this case the litho photo area).

at 3 inch pipe has a diameter of 3.5 inches.

mtylerfl
08-29-2015, 09:00 AM
at 3 inch pipe has a diameter of 3.5 inches.

Unless it was a 3" OD pipe! (ID would be 2.5")