question for the wood gear clock makers out there

[oscarl48]

Gents and ladies,

Is there a program or an easy way to create the escapements?

The original reason I purchased the CW (and a laser) was to create wood gear clocks for myself. After a year and a half I have completed zero clocks. I have learned how to cut gears but how to do the escapements still escapes me (at least ones that actually work). :)

I believe I have read all the entries on involute gears and clock gears on the forum but I may have missed the one that had this nugget.

Thanks,
Oscar

[Digitalwoodshop]

How many watts is your laser? Laser envy... only 20 watts here..

Had to look this one up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapement

Don't have a clue....

[oscarl48]

There is no laser envy here. Its says 40W but probably closer to 30W actual. I can cut 1/8" plywood with no problem but 1/4" takes multiple passes and leaves a bit (lot) of scorching. I've realized if I ever do get serious with laser work I need a minimum of 60W for real work and a much larger work area. Mine can only do 8"x9". I am trying to remember who but someone on here has a real nice laser.

It does make pretty gears. I glue up two blanks to get at least a 1/4" gear which seems to work well.

Mine completely sucks at cutting hardwoods (pretty good engraver in cherry and maple). At some point if I figure this stuff out I would love to cut the gears with CNC and then engrave with the laser.

The escapements I have made have pretty much been good for one tick and no follow on tock. (they've been garbage)

[blhutchens]

I built a complete clock off of a sketch up swiss all wood before I got advanced software add ons. I spent two solid weeks and never got a tick.
It is a wonder it even looked like a clock.
I have looked a many escapements and played with making a few. Like you have not found a way to totally make them on the cw.
most i would cut out with the cw and hand drill holes through the top for wheel pegs from hobby lobby to fit in.
I did build Dick Bipes' " Mystery Clock". I like his escapement, it would have to be modified to work on a pendulum clock though.

[oscarl48]

Brent,

I've actually gone as far as buying several of Brian Law's plans. I guess its just a pride thing. I want to show off a clock that I designed and built that half works. lol. It doesn't even have to keep time correctly. I have plenty of other clocks that do that already. blender 3d natively creates involute and worm gears as primitives so i can now make gear patterns with minimal effort. I also got gear generator 3.0 but the spokes it creates are more utilitarian than beautiful.

I was hoping for a short cut which may not exist. I may have to actually learn what I am doing instead of half assing it. I am usually pretty good at half assing but this one may be just a little bit outside of that range. For the targeting nerds: The CEP may be a little bit outside the target.

Manager called today as well. My vacation may be cut short since the contract negotiations went really well and work should be starting next week. So my play time will go back to weekends only again. First vacation I've had in 4 years. Opening a bottle of vodka, wine or beer at 8 in the morning is about end.

Regards,
Oscar

[SteveNelson46]

Gents and ladies,

Is there a program or an easy way to create the escapements?

The original reason I purchased the CW (and a laser) was to create wood gear clocks for myself. After a year and a half I have completed zero clocks. I have learned how to cut gears but how to do the escapements still escapes me (at least ones that actually work). :)

I believe I have read all the entries on involute gears and clock gears on the forum but I may have missed the one that had this nugget.

Thanks,
Oscar

Check out "Gear Generator" at:

http://woodgears.ca/gear/

For $26.00 it's pretty amazing.

[oscarl48]

Steve,

<smiles> I have it as well. I can make gears all day long. Its the escapement that is giving me fits.

I agree with you that its an awesome deal.

Oscar

[SteveNelson46]

I drew this in Aspire in about 10 minutes and imported it into Designer 1.187 as a .dxf. I think you could do the same in Corel Draw or other vector drawing programs. It isn't precise but, I think you can get an idea of how easy it would be to just draw it yourself.

[oscarl48]

Steve,

Thank you for the time to build the example.

Its the arbor I am having problems with. In blender its about the same time in drawing the escapement wheel. But its not very precise which is the problem. There is precise geometry you need with the escapement arbor that I am messing up with. I was hoping there was an easy answer but I think I will have to take the time and actually learn the process in building the piece.

Oscar

[SteveNelson46]

Steve,

Thank you for the time to build the example.

Its the arbor I am having problems with. In blender its about the same time in drawing the escapement wheel. But its not very precise which is the problem. There is precise geometry you need with the escapement arbor that I am messing up with. I was hoping there was an easy answer but I think I will have to take the time and actually learn the process in building the piece.

Oscar

I redrew the example to be a little more precise. The arbor or center hole is exactly dead center. If you send me the exact specs i will attempt to draw it for you.

[DickB]

Check this thread: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?17794-Make-Gears-with-Radial-Vector-Generator&p=149795#post149795

JLT posted a free program Radial Vector Generator that can generate a grasshopper escapement. You also use the free program ai2mpc to import to Designer. I have used the Radial Vector Generator to make gears and ratchet wheels, but not escapements.

To clarify, my clocks Mystery Clock and Synchronicity use a ratchet wheel and pawls, not an escapement. My clocks are driven and regulated by their pendulums; most wood gear clocks are driven by weights and regulated by their pendulums.

[oscarl48]

Steve,

Thank you. Great looking escapement wheel.

DickB,

Thank you. Downloaded the radial vector generator.

Its going to be fun playing with this stuff again.

[oscarl48]

Just found a wonderful article by Mark Headrick (http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Headrick-EscMechanics.pdf) on clock escapement mechanics that walk you step by step on building a graham escapement. I think I have the starting point to begin now. Looking at the gear calculator to figure out how many teeth gear I need. I also have to figure out how to make some hardwood plywood with the tools I have without wasting most of the material.

I hate to say it because I have spent so much time trying to figure it out but this method looks super easy. Now have to see if it actually works for me.

[SteveNelson46]

I didn't know exactly what you were looking for until I saw the drawing. If this is it, it's extremely easy in just about any vector program. Just need to know the diameter and the number of teeth, height and angle. This one has 30 teeth with a diameter of 3" and a tooth height of .375 with an angle of about 3 degrees.

[oscarl48]

Steve,

Sorry for not being able to explain myself well. Its the other part of the escapement that has been giving me problems. Not a very good clock maker since I don't know the names of the parts (anchor???). The angles of the pallet faces have to be precise (within a few degrees) of the escapement wheel teeth or not enough energy is transferred to the pendulum.

The article explained the geometry between the parts without the math. My brain doesn't work with math very well anymore so it visually clarified what I was doing wrong. Still doesn't mean I can do it right but at least I have a good starting point.

Regards,
Oscar

P.S. I am still downloading all of your patterns. They look better than mine. :)

[oscarl48]

Okay. First time attempt at using the 1/16 cutting bit and I am doing something wrong. The system will not allow me to set the parameters for a .2 or .25 board to cut. It will accept a .125 setting but not anything deeper.

I have a cut path set with 1/16 cutting bit and no deeper cut than .125 (it won't allow me anything deeper). Tabs are set at 1/16 in.

When I go to the board to increase board depth I get the error in the picture.

What setting or command should I be using. The description on the bit states its capable of cutting upto .25 in.

I am using designer 2 with trace done on gear pattern. I want to do a vector cut instead of a raster carving. mpc uploaded to show what I have so far.

Thank you.

[SteveNelson46]

Okay. First time attempt at using the 1/16 cutting bit and I am doing something wrong. The system will not allow me to set the parameters for a .2 or .25 board to cut. It will accept a .125 setting but not anything deeper.

I have a cut path set with 1/16 cutting bit and no deeper cut than .125 (it won't allow me anything deeper). Tabs are set at 1/16 in.

When I go to the board to increase board depth I get the error in the picture.

What setting or command should I be using. The description on the bit states its capable of cutting upto .25 in.

I am using designer 2 with trace done on gear pattern. I want to do a vector cut instead of a raster carving. mpc uploaded to show what I have so far.

Thank you.

You have to set the board thickness first. Trying to set it after there are drawings or patterns on the board and a bit has been assigned results in the error message. This is a flaw in programming and I think it was discussed here on the forum quite some time ago. Apparently it was never fixed. It's also in version 3.

[oscarl48]

Awesome! Thank you for all the assistance you've given me on this project. It is appreciated.

[bergerud]

It is not a bug. I have complained about it. It was programed to give that extra 1/16" to make sure the cut goes through. (3/16" for the 1/16" cutting bit and 15/16" for the 1/8" cutting bit.) The bug is that you can get around it! Just make a new board 1/4" thick and copy paste everything to it. (One has to choose all the board settings up front. The Board settings dialog will catch the error and all you can do is cancel.)

[oscarl48]

Copy. Much appreciated. Did exactly that and did a few more gears. Gear calculator shows 57 tooth:12 pinion, 45 tooth:11 pinion, 32 tooth:11 pinion and 30 tooth escapement for a 44 in long pendulum.

blender makes short work of making gears but I know the touch surfaces are going to be off. The addendum and dedendums are not exactly the same with each gear/pinion but hopefully they will work.

Heat index is 108 right now so I think I will wait for the weekend. Anyone up north want to trade locations. :)

[SteveNelson46]

It is not a bug. I have complained about it. It was programed to give that extra 1/16" to make sure the cut goes through. (3/16" for the 1/16" cutting bit and 15/16" for the 1/8" cutting bit.) The bug is that you can get around it! Just make a new board 1/4" thick and copy paste everything to it. (One has to choose all the board settings up front. The Board settings dialog will catch the error and all you can do is cancel.)



If the 1/16" bit cuts all the way through a .25" board without any problems, why can't the board thickness be changed to .25" if the initial thickness was set for something less. I think there is a fly in the ointment.

[bergerud]

There was some worry about the bits cutting down past their cutting edges. For example, the 1/16" cutting bit has 1/4" LOC and so if if goes a little deeper to cut through, the top of the bit will not be cutting. I do not know why they changed, maybe someone started a fire!

The only reason we can still cut deeper is for backward comparability with the older mpcs. That left a workaround.

[oscarl48]

I went to install the steel adapter sleeve on my 1/16 cutting bit and when I was putting into my vice I snapped it like a twig. Frustrating waste of 40 dollars plus the 10+ dollar shipping cost from LHR. Went flying before I realized I could have used the adapter for another bit. Oh well.

Installed the 1/8" cutting bit and redid the mpc for that size. It actually cut fairly well. Next time I will change the number of tabs to 1 or zero (will have to use double stick tape for zero).

Still don't know what I am doing. Escapement wheel is fine but the escapement lever isn't matching up too well. I also failed to properly center the hole in the escapement wheel on the drill press. Rushed it instead of taking my time measuring. This was only a proof of concept cut.

The gears came out great though. I used cheap Lowes oak plywood. It really is terrible for this but it validated some parts of the design using the 1/8" cutting bit. It is doable using only the 1/8 cutting bit. The picture is of the 57 tooth gear using the cheap plywood. It would still need a bit of sanding if I was going to use it (I'm not).

The next step is to make some solid hard wood plywood and try again.

[bergerud]

Next time I will change the number of tabs to 1 or zero (will have to use double stick tape for zero).



Note that is "Minimum number of tabs". If you set it to none, you still get tabs. You are thinking, as I did, that it is maximum number of tabs.

If you do not want tabs, I think you have to route with the 1/8" cutting bit. I have not been able to disabled tabs with cutouts.

[oscarl48]

Thank you for the info. I can live with the tabs but just a lot more sanding afterwards or very careful removal. I'll play with it tomorrow and see what it does. I don't think I have the patience to actually build the routing cutting path manually for each gear everytime.

[bergerud]

It is no harder than a cutout. Just assign the 1/8" cutting bit with a 1/16" inset. It is better since the tabs usually cause nearby distortions.

[oscarl48]

:D re-learned something again. I think you had taught me that awhile ago but my old brain just remembered by you reteaching me. lol

old is good. Its not the actual age but the miles (and liquid libations).

Oh and its been one of those days. I broke the 1/16 cutting bit this morning and now I've accidentally erased the 3d models of all the gears I had made. I think its time for me to open a beer.

[DickB]

Installed the 1/8" cutting bit and redid the mpc for that size. It actually cut fairly wellI use only the 1/8" cutting bit for wheels and pinions. As you found it works well and is a more robust bit less likely to break.


I also failed to properly center the hole in the escapement wheel on the drill pressUse the Carvewright to accurately place the center hole. In my clock projects I select the 1/16" cutting bit to drill a pilot hole .1" deep, then after machining drill a precise diameter hole with my drill press. You can load the 1/16" carving bit when the machine prompts for the 1/16" cutting bit, as it will work fine for such a shallow hole. I found my Carvewright is not capable of drilling precise holes such as 3/8" or 7/16" with the 1/8" bit, hence this technique. I since learned what works better for me is to have the Carvewright drill a hole 1/16" smaller than desired, then finish with the drill press. I get more precise centering that way.


The next step is to make some solid hard wood plywood and try again.Perhaps you know this, but use an odd number of plies to prevent warping.

[oscarl48]

Thank you for the great advice. I had a piece of maple that had been outside forever with minimal warping so planed it this morning to 1/2" and its cutting now.

Do have working clocks or do you use them for mechanical gear projects?

[DickB]

Do have working clocks or do you use them for mechanical gear projects?
I have several working wood gear clocks; three of them are available in the Pattern Depot. You can download the instructions from the Pattern depot no charge and see how my clocks are made.

The Naked Clock uses a synchronous timing motor:
77069 http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=21882&cat=&page=1

The Mystery Clock uses an electromagnetic pendulum:
77068 http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=23467&cat=&page=1

As does Synchronicity, a wall clock:
77070 http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=24723&cat=&page=1

[oscarl48]

Gorgeous pieces and designs. I am so close I can almost taste it.

I will have to work around my machine. It carves beyond all my expectations but I have never been able to get a consistent cnc cut out of it. The teeth on my gears are all slightly different shapes. They may be close enough to true that they will work with a little sanding. We'll see. I am putting them away for today.

Overall not a bad day. I got the gears cut and did a proof of concept cut in the morning for a new pattern I made.