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bergerud
05-08-2015, 03:59 PM
The Universal Carrier Base is now up in the Pattern Depot. Making it should not be hard. It could easily have been a basic level project. I thought, however, that actually using it might require a little more than basic knowledge of the machine. (I did not want any newbies to think they were making a towel rack!)

http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=25240&cat=261&page=1

Have a look at the project instructions (Try) and see what you think. I plan to update the "how to use instructions" down the road after the discussions I hope we have in this thread.

There are two project files. One for the UCB 24 and one for the UCB 36. You should build the 24 first.

I really think this is a good thing. I hope you do too.

fwharris
05-08-2015, 05:22 PM
Job well done sir!!!

Mike58
05-08-2015, 06:43 PM
I followed along in the thread you started as you were working on and improving your design. I plan to give it a try when I get a chance. I am glad to see it in the Pattern Depot. You did a great job designing and building this. Hope you see $$$ for all the time you put into creating it.
What are you going to do next? ;)

bergerud
05-08-2015, 07:18 PM
Thanks Floyd.



What are you going to do next? ;)

I will work on an Advanced Carrier Base. Side clamping, repeatability, and double sided accuracy. Mostly procedures.

carrothers
05-08-2015, 09:10 PM
I think this is so popular that you have crashed the CW registration site...keep getting error messages.

bergerud
05-08-2015, 09:18 PM
You are not the only one. Mikemi sent me a PM saying he was getting 404 after he bought it.

lynnfrwd
05-08-2015, 11:50 PM
May not be cycled through the database until the morning.

DonCP
05-09-2015, 05:47 AM
The CW registration server is working for this project now. Just registered mine.

mikemi
05-09-2015, 08:27 AM
You are not the only one. Mikemi sent me a PM saying he was getting 404 after he bought it.

Bergerud,

Thanks for the help. I got mine activated this morning. Now it is off to Lowe's to buy the materials.

Mike

dbemus
05-09-2015, 04:15 PM
Bergerud,

Thanks for your creative project! I hope to build mine this week and begin putting it to good use.

boilermaker
05-12-2015, 07:34 AM
I purchased the ucb project yesterday as I was getting ready to upload the mpc to my card today I noticed the line at the top of the side cutout does not look quite straight. After looking at all the dimensions I noticed that the 1" dimension is 1.008 on the left and 1.000 on the right not much difference not sure how i even noticed it. Must be my new reading glasses. I am not sure if there is a reason for the different dimensions but I will take a guess and change them both to 1" before I cut the parts.

bergerud
05-12-2015, 08:28 AM
Yes, you are right. Same for the corresponding point at the bottom of the mpc and same for the UCB 36. Those points should all be snapped to a 1/4" snap grid. I do not know how that happened. (Snap grid round off error when I had the grid at 1/16" I guess.)

Change the snap grid to a 1/4" and snap those points.

I do not think it is a serious enough problem to re-upload and recode the files. It bothers me all the same. Thanks for spotting it.

boilermaker
05-12-2015, 08:34 AM
I just right clicked then edit length typed 1.000 hit enter then right clicked again and removed the constraint no big deal

zan29
05-12-2015, 08:56 AM
What an awesome project Dan!! I keep looking at it and not sure I can do it. You'll become the most popular vendor on CW!! Good for you.
Suzanne

bergerud
05-12-2015, 09:01 AM
I keep looking at it and not sure I can do it.
Suzanne

What part of the project do you think is hard to do?

ktjwilliams
05-12-2015, 12:54 PM
Dan Congrats on UR hit ... Hopefully you do well with the Carrier ,, God knows you put in a lot of research and development on many items over the years for the machine ... Great Invention my ole friend ..

Kevin
Middletown, NJ

bergerud
05-12-2015, 01:00 PM
Thanks Kevin. I think I finally have something that is simple and nearly everyone can use.

bergerud
05-12-2015, 03:46 PM
Carrier in action. Some black walnut only 3/8" thick with a support board under it.

zan29
05-12-2015, 05:43 PM
Too many parts.........:p


What part of the project do you think is hard to do?

Dale
05-12-2015, 06:18 PM
Actually Suzanne it is not that bad. It looks like a lot to begin with but once you get started it is pretty easy. Mine is almost complete.

mtylerfl
05-12-2015, 06:52 PM
Carrier in action. Some black walnut only 3/8" thick with a support board under it.

So COOL, Dan! Excellent accessory for all.

SteveNelson46
05-12-2015, 07:35 PM
Dan,

I just bought the project from the Pattern Depot and I have been reviewing the instructions. It looks fairly straight forward and I plan to build mine out of Oak tomorrow. In the notes for the UCB-36 you stated that 5/8" thick boards could be substituted for the 1/2" boards with a couple of modifications. Can this be applied to the UCB-24 also? Since I have to plane the boards to thickness it would be less planing.

bergerud
05-12-2015, 08:23 PM
Dan,

I just bought the project from the Pattern Depot and I have been reviewing the instructions. It looks fairly straight forward and I plan to build mine out of Oak tomorrow. In the notes for the UCB-36 you stated that 5/8" thick boards could be substituted for the 1/2" boards with a couple of modifications. Can this be applied to the UCB-24 also? Since I have to plane the boards to thickness it would be less planing.

Sure. The first ones I made were all 5/8". The touch hole is then right in the middle of the side. I would have made the plans for 5/8" only I figured 5/8" MDF was hard to find.

bergerud
05-12-2015, 08:59 PM
Thanks Michael.


Too many parts.........:p

It is true, I always seem to end up making lots of parts. You should see some of my other projects.

zan29
05-13-2015, 04:19 AM
If I can get my cw to work I will certainly consider it.


Actually Suzanne it is not that bad. It looks like a lot to begin with but once you get started it is pretty easy. Mine is almost complete.

bergerud
05-13-2015, 08:56 AM
Suzanne,

The carrier may also beat the stair stepping problem we have had on cutouts. If the tracking problems really are caused by cutting bit vibration near the brass roller (as I think), then the carrier would fix it. All of my cutouts so far using the carrier have been right on, so, I am hopeful.

Start another thread on your problem and lets get it fixed!

ktjwilliams
05-13-2015, 10:31 AM
How bout a video Dan ...

bergerud
05-13-2015, 10:46 AM
I think there would have to be a sequence of videos. I did make one:

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=245725#post245725

I have been thinking about it.

boilermaker
05-13-2015, 11:05 AM
I finished my carrier base today. I will have to try it out tomorrow. I am wondering if I missed something as the side rails will only go down to hold a 1" board. The dowel on the touch block bottoms out in the slot stopping the rails from going down all the way. I am thinking about cutting off the dowels and gluing strips of 1/4" plywood on the sides making a channel for the touch block guides as I am worried about weakening the carrier by lengthening the slots. Like I said I might have missed something.

bergerud
05-13-2015, 01:37 PM
Just flip the blocks over!

Edit: I mean so the dowels are out.

Edit edit: you could also leave the blocks off. If the bit cannot make it down to the blocks, they do nothing anyway. If I recall, a 1" board with the standard carving bit is the limit of bit reach.

Geomoo1
05-13-2015, 05:31 PM
bergerud,
I received an email from Connie with a link to download an update to your UCB patterns. Could you please tell me what the updates changed or what error it fixed (if any)? I am about half through assembling my UCB and am wondering if some part is not correct and needs to be re-carved.

TIA for your reply,
George

bergerud
05-13-2015, 05:56 PM
Look at previous posts 11 and 12. It is not anything to worry about. Some corner points were a few thousandths off of the snap grid. Two hair widths!

(The only reason I even fixed it was to experiment and see if a protected file in a project could be replaced without having to re license.)

mikemi
05-13-2015, 07:18 PM
I got mine cut out last Saturday and on the last one when it was finished the Crank Torque Plate broke into so I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. I order parts right away Saturday the 9th and I received an email at 3:39 today that the information was finally sent to UPS from LHR and that the package should arrive on Monday the 19th. I even paid for 3 Day UPS Select. Lot of good that did. I thought parts were sent out quicker than that. Oh well, live and learn.
I have had time to assemble them since my machines are down.
Can't wait to try the carrier board though.

Mike

boilermaker
05-16-2015, 07:43 PM
I have carved 3 projects on this jig and all have worked very well. I love it that it only measures the board and not the jig saves a lot of time. I advise everyone to make this board carrier and then sell your stock in double stick tape and masking tape.

bergerud
05-16-2015, 08:37 PM
I advise everyone to make this board carrier and then sell your stock in double stick tape and masking tape.

I hope Al is sitting down when he reads that! LOL.

Thanks for the feedback. It makes me a bit nervous when my stuff gets made and used. Great to hear it works!

mikemi
05-18-2015, 07:03 PM
Bergerud,

I finally got my parts for the machine this afternoon. It didn't take long to replace the broken Crank Torque Plate so then I had time to try out the carrier board and it worked fantastic, just as advertised. I think it will take a lot of aggravation out of the whole process for a lot of people.

Can't wait to see your next Carvewright changing project.

Mike

bergerud
05-18-2015, 07:57 PM
I am so happy to get the positive feedback. Thanks.

SteveNelson46
05-20-2015, 10:15 PM
Dan,

Well, I finally finished the UCB. As I stated earlier, I made mine out of 5/8" Oak and the results are stellar. The documentation is pretty good and easy to follow and I had very little trouble assembling it. After finishing the UCB, I carved my first project on it. However, instead of using a shim and a block of wood to set the height of the board in the Carrier, I used a rabbeted block (see pic). It was much easier and I didn't need 3 hands. The carving is for one of my daughters and it came out very good also. It's just MDF as I wanted to see how the UCB handled pierced carvings and I couldn't have asked for better results. The actual size of the carving was 8.25" by 8.25" and I used a board that was 10.5" square so it saved a lot of wood .The next carving will be out of mesquite and I'll post the pics as soon as it is complere.

bergerud
05-20-2015, 11:35 PM
Nice job. I want an oak one now too! Nice how the piercing worked.

SteveNelson46
05-21-2015, 11:09 AM
The only issue I had was when trying to jog to the line the machine would stop about 1/8" from the line and would not advance any further. Probably because the roller dropped. Consequently, the touch hole on the other side was off by an 1/8" also. I fixed it by making the touch hole 3/8" in diameter. Since the sides are 5/8" thick this seems to work. This is sort of better as all I have to do is jog until the carrier stops and then press enter.

EDIT: I guess I could move the touch block to the other touch hole.

bergerud
05-21-2015, 12:17 PM
That is a little strange. The touch hole should line up just before the roller drops. I made the touch hole where I thought the machine naturally goes. Now I think another 1/4" further down may have been better. I copied the placement I used on the poor man's carrier. This may be a thing to tweak.

bergerud
05-22-2015, 12:12 PM
Since all machines are a little different, I was originally making the touch hole elongated. Then I figured the elongated hole was too hard to make (especially in the 1/2" side) and thought that jogging to a drill hole was not so bad. (It seemed that forcing the user to jog was good because a z stall will result if the touch hole is missed.)

More experimenting has to be done on this but it seems that, when using place on center, each machine naturally goes to the same spot to load the bit. It moves the board close to where the front roller is about to drop. This is a bit of a variable and I am not sure it always does it.

Steve, what do you think about just removing the stop block on the front? Cut it off so it is the same as the 1.5 X 1.5 bock at the back. Then find the "sweet" spot where the front of the board should go so the the machine automatically lines up at the front touch hole for the bit load. One could then mark it on the carrier. After that, lining up the front of the board with the mark would automatically cause the touch hole to line up later. (I would stiil set the user options to Jog (Always) so that one always makes the visual check before pressing Enter)

I am starting to think the stop block is more trouble than it is worth and I wish I had removed it from the design. It also stops one from sliding boards out of the front, and I think sliding boards out the front is going to be a useful thing to do. The carrier would be more versatile without it.

SteveNelson46
05-22-2015, 02:08 PM
Dan,

Actually, I'm not having any problems now that I have made the touch hole a little larger but, your suggestion may make the jig even more useful so I'm willing to give it a try.

I just finished another slight modification that seems to make it even easier to load a board. I bought a short piece of 3/8" ID copper tubing and cut two pieces to a length of 1 1/4" (the thickness of the side plus the stop block). Then I enlarged the holes where the all-thread went through the right side to a 1/2" diameter (that is the exact outside diameter of the tubing) and tapped them in with a rubber mallet. The fit was so tight that I didn't even have to use an adhesive. This allowed the rods to slide much easier. Now, all I do to insert a board is to adjust the height using my rabbeted block, use a clamp to squeeze the sides together and snug up the nuts.

bergerud
05-22-2015, 02:26 PM
Dan,

This allowed the rods to slide much easier.

Nice. (I was just looking at those aluminum tubes on the CW rotary jig the other day. Hmm.)

carrothers
05-23-2015, 03:32 PM
I know this is a newbie question; but I downloaded the project file from the CW website after I got the download keys...when I go to manage licenses it says it's on my machine but when I try to open a new project it doesnt show up in favorites or basic how do you open a project?

bergerud
05-23-2015, 03:40 PM
This is not a pattern, it is a project. You downloaded a zip file I think. In the zip file there will be .pdf and .mpc files. You have to unzip it and then open the mpc in Designer.

DonCP
05-23-2015, 03:52 PM
Another Newbie question. Can I just measure a board in this jig? I just completed it and am checking it out. Getting alot of edge detect errors.

I like it, just having trouble kicking the tires, sort of speak.

Bergerud, Thanks for all your hard work.

bergerud
05-23-2015, 04:07 PM
You can just measure the board. You have to measure the width where the sides are black and the board has to stick up 1/8" above the sides. Are you following the procedure in the instructions?

DonCP
05-23-2015, 04:12 PM
As best I can. I have tried what you have suggested. Will try again thank you.

It worked for a measurement, think I was confused as to how to put the board in the UCB. Will try a project. Thanks

jab73180
05-23-2015, 07:48 PM
So how does this work? Does it measure the length of the board or the entire jig? I thought I saw the ends of the jig tapered in on the end. I guess I don't understand that part. Doesn't the jig have to lose contact with the brass roller during the measuring process? Is this witchcraft? Also, does the board go into the carrier in the center or on an end?

bergerud
05-23-2015, 08:36 PM
So how does this work? Does it measure the length of the board or the entire jig? I thought I saw the ends of the jig tapered in on the end. I guess I don't understand that part. Doesn't the jig have to lose contact with the brass roller during the measuring process? Is this witchcraft? Also, does the board go into the carrier in the center or on an end?

Only the board is measured, not the jig. (You can choose to measure the jig width if you want but not the length.)

The jig says under the rollers and on the brass roller at all times.

The board can go anywhere on the sandpaper rails.

The witchcraft to this is having the top surface of the board 1/8" above the sides of the jig. This allows the machine detect the ends of the board. With the head clamped down lightly, the roller switches switch off when the rollers roll from the board down to the sides of the jig. The optic sensor then finds the end(s) of the board. (There is no end of the jig.) After the board has been measured, the head gets properly clamped down. Now as the carving or cutting proceeds, the rollers may roll off and on the ends of the board but the roller switches do not switch now that the head is down. That means that the brass roller never goes offline and is always tracking. (Normally when a roller switches off, the brass roller goes offline.)

jab73180
05-23-2015, 08:53 PM
Only the board is measured, not the jig. (You can choose to measure the jig width if you want but not the length.)

The jig says under the rollers and on the brass roller at all times.

The board can go anywhere on the sandpaper rails.

The witchcraft to this is having the top surface of the board 1/8" above the sides of the jig. This allows the machine detect the ends of the board. With the head clamped down lightly, the roller switches switch off when the rollers roll from the board down to the sides of the jig. The optic sensor then finds the end(s) of the board. (There is no end of the jig.) After the board has been measured, the head gets properly clamped down. Now as the carving or cutting proceeds, the rollers may roll off and on the ends of the board but the roller switches do not switch now that the head is down. That means that the brass roller never goes offline and is always tracking. (Normally when a roller switches off, the brass roller goes offline.)
OK, I see now. Just have to trick the machine a Lil. I didn't know you could do that. Thanks for the detailed explanation and sorry if it was already discussed.

Canemaker
05-23-2015, 10:12 PM
You mention on several occasions that The board can go anywhere on the sandpaper rails. Are your referring that this only works on the old sandpaper belt or am I missing something will it also work with the rubber belts. Thanks John

bergerud
05-23-2015, 11:17 PM
You mention on several occasions that The board can go anywhere on the sandpaper rails. Are your referring that this only works on the old sandpaper belt or am I missing something will it also work with the rubber belts. Thanks John

The rails are a part of the Carrier Base not the CW machine. The rails have sandpaper grip tape on them. The board sits on these sandpaper rails in the Carrier. What I was saying was that the board can be put anywhere on top of these rails. The board does not need to be put at on end or the other.

The UCB works in CW machines with sandpaper belts or rubber belts. That makes no difference.

Canemaker
05-24-2015, 09:00 AM
One last question before i purchase this project. I noticed taht the project comes with a pattern, is that the pattern to cut out the rails and all the necessary holes or do I have to use a drill press and table saw to achieve this feat. Thanks for your response, and I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered if I missed it.

bergerud
05-24-2015, 09:30 AM
One last question before i purchase this project. I noticed taht the project comes with a pattern, is that the pattern to cut out the rails and all the necessary holes or do I have to use a drill press and table saw to achieve this feat. Thanks for your response, and I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered if I missed it.

The project comes with two project files (mpc's not patterns) for two different size carriers. Each project file has all the wooden parts for each carrier. All the parts, except the base rails, get cut out with the 1/8" cutting bit. The base rails are simple strips which are cut out of the left over sides of the board. One does need a table saw or band saw to cut these strips from the left overs. If one does not have a saw to do this, one could easily make a project for the CW to cut out strips or one could just use 1" X 2" lumber. One also has to drill two holes vertically down into the sides of the carrier. A drill press is nice but, with some care, a hand drill can work.

SteveNelson46
05-24-2015, 09:58 AM
I suggest that you download the project as a trial. In the .zip file is a .pdf file that contains very good explanations of everything.

oscarl48
05-24-2015, 11:18 AM
Dan,

Yesterday taught me I need a jig if I want to route precision pattern so I got your wonderful carrier. I can't wait to start using it. I am already getting ideas for future projects. Up to now I have only been using the CW as a carver since I already have most other tools in my tool set but routing inlays and intricate cut flat patterns just opened up. Weather will keep me from any woodworking for at least a week but hopefully I can get the jig up and going next weekend and finish the clock.

Long winded entry to say thank you for the project and the effort in designing it.

Regards,
Oscar

carrothers
05-29-2015, 10:49 AM
I loaded the card for the 24in universal carrier and got the machine set up...it took the measurements and I put in the 1/8 cutting bit (a relatively new one) and then it went thru the slide tap and then asked me to put in the board depth. It had ">>0" on the screen. I tried putting in 1/2 and it wouldn't take it...tried putting in .5 and it wouldn't take it...so finally I just said continue. It did all the hole cuts and then started on the first cutout and I noticed that it was cutting the outline very lightly...less than a 1/16 and then the bit broke. I turned the machine off...ordered a new bit and haven't moved the board. When I get the new bit how do I get it to start carving the first outline and not go thru all the hole cuts or start a new board? Can I just take the bit out after it takes it's measurements and "air cut" the holes...then stop and put the bit in when it gets to the first cut out? Thanks.

bergerud
05-29-2015, 11:13 AM
What size is the board? You better not start this again until we figure out what went wrong. How could the bit break if it was doing such a shallow cut?

How are the out feed rollers adjusted?

SteveNelson46
05-29-2015, 11:26 AM
I had a couple of problems like that too. I discovered that the board height above the carrier sides needs to be EXACTLY 1/8". However, this may be due to my specific machine tolerances. Also, I found that when lowering the head for the first time (at the load project prompt) when the display changes to"Press Enter To Continue" give the handle a little extra nudge.

bergerud
05-29-2015, 11:34 AM
Steve, he is just trying to cut out the Carrier. He has not made it yet.

When the LCD displayed >>0 , you should have been able to key in 1/2 or .5. If you pressed enter with >>0, the thickness would now be 0 and then you pressed continue?? I will have to try that.

SteveNelson46
05-29-2015, 11:37 AM
Steve, he is just trying to cut out the Carrier. He has not made it yet.

When the LCD displayed >>0 , you should have been able to key in 1/2 or .5. If you pressed enter with >>0, the thickness would now be 0 and then you pressed continue?? I will have to try that.

Oops! I don't recall the machine asking for a board thickness.

bergerud
05-29-2015, 11:48 AM
I tried just pressing enter at the >>0 and it would not proceed without some input. It must have, therefore, taken some number from you before continuing.

Please go through the start up again. Just use a 1/16" carving bit. Take notes of all the LCD prompts.

bergerud
05-29-2015, 12:15 PM
I don't recall the machine asking for a board thickness.

Whenever the board is 14" plus in width, it does not do the sliding plate thickness check. The machine has no idea how thick the board is and so asks.

What I have just discovered from experimenting is that you can key in a larger thickness than the project and it will go ahead and cut. (Even if the number is too big for cut through!) If you key in a smaller than project thickness, you will get a "Board Maybe Too Thin" 1)Abort 2) Continue.

sunmiztres
05-30-2015, 10:48 AM
I have a lot of 3/4 MDF. Can I use this for the sled? If so would I need to change any of the pieces or hardware to make it work correctly? Thank you for your input.

bergerud
05-30-2015, 11:12 AM
I have not made one with 3/4" MDF. You would, of course, need longer bolts. You would not be able to hold as wide a board: something like 13.5" instead of 14". The normal board touch would miss the board and touch the side on the first touch and so you would always have to jog the y as well as the x. The bob for the sliding plate may scrape the bit down the side of the jig.

I think these are all problems which can be overcome. Give it a try. I love a good experiment!

jakab
05-31-2015, 09:40 AM
I was wondering what is the minimum version of the CarveWright software required for both making and using the jig.

Thank you.

...Peter

bergerud
05-31-2015, 09:46 AM
The files were created in Designer 1.187. So, basic Designer 1.187 the minimum of what is needed to make the Carrier. Any version could use the Carrier.

carrothers
06-11-2015, 09:27 AM
I set up the outfeed rollers so the MDF just barely rolls over them....the half inch MDF is 14 inches wide and 40 inches long. I just got my new 1/8 cutting bit from LHR (took 10 days to arrive?) and ready to crank it up again. I will see if I get the thickness message again...hopefully not. Should I go thru all the set up and check the bit depth and then take the bit out and let it air carve the holes and then put the bit back in when it gets to the first outline cut? Thanks.

bergerud
06-11-2015, 09:38 AM
You should get the thickness message. The machine asks for the thickness because it cannot reach the sliding plate with a 14" plus wide board. If it could reach the sliding plate, it would test the thickness itself.

If you want to skip the holes, why not delete them from the mpc before upload?

Edit: I still do not understand why the bit broke last time. Good luck.

sunmiztres
06-25-2015, 08:52 PM
I finally made the Universal Carrier and all I can say is I am thoroughly impressed by the carrier. It was easy to make, only took about 3 hours assembling and that included drying time for the glue. Great instructions!! It works like a charm. Never had a tracking error that I usually would get at least once when measuring a board or a board within a sled. You are a brilliant man coming up with the Universal Carrier Bergerud. Thank you for making it available to all of us through the pattern depot.

bergerud
06-25-2015, 11:31 PM
Great to hear. Thanks for the feedback.

papawbummie
06-26-2015, 08:27 PM
How to Jog . I have never used jog feature except to use the scan probe. I want to drill a hole in board at a specific spot Thanks Bert(I go 0 5 to open jog turn on and that is as far as I can get)

bergerud
06-26-2015, 09:19 PM
How to Jog . I have never used jog feature except to use the scan probe. I want to drill a hole in board at a specific spot Thanks Bert(I go 0 5 to open jog turn on and that is as far as I can get)

I would just make a project on a really small Designer board with a hole drilled in the middle of it. Now when running the project on the machine (with UCB or not), when it asks to center on board, arrow down to jog instead. After bit measurements and such, just before the cutting starts, it will ask " jog to center or corner". Pick jog to center. Use the arrow keys to jog to where you want the hole.

sunmiztres
07-08-2015, 02:57 PM
I am having a problem with UCB. The last 3 projects I made with the UCB I am getting lines going down the carve 3.5" from the both ends of the project. The same problem I would have if I did not give myself the extra 7" of board. I have 2 machines and tried the project in both machines and the same problem happens. I have enclosed the pictures of the project. Please let me know what may be going wrong. Thank you

CNC Carver
07-08-2015, 03:23 PM
You are giving the extra 7" all on same board?

bergerud
07-08-2015, 03:39 PM
When I tested the UCB in my machines, I found the base did not move up and down at all as the rollers roll off and on the ends of the board. I did get those lines once and it was because the board was not flat. The ends of the board were turned up and the board "rocked" in the carrier as the rollers rolled off of the ends. One has to test that the board will not do this. Place the board cup down or put some shims under the corners.

This could also happen, I suppose, if the rails are not adjusted parallel. Just make sure the board is solid on the rails.

If for some reason the carrier is moving in the machine (I hope it is not), one could lay 1/8" shims on the tops of the sides.

SteveNelson46
07-08-2015, 03:47 PM
I am having a problem with UCB. The last 3 projects I made with the UCB I am getting lines going down the carve 3.5" from the both ends of the project. The same problem I would have if I did not give myself the extra 7" of board. I have 2 machines and tried the project in both machines and the same problem happens. I have enclosed the pictures of the project. Please let me know what may be going wrong. Thank you

If the board was moving in the jig or the jig was moving the lines would not be even. The ridges in the pic appear to be following the grain. Did you check for a loose Z or Y bearing? Or maybe dirty rails.

sunmiztres
07-08-2015, 05:30 PM
I thought maybe the board was moving up and down as it goes through the rollers so I then used some nice straight Red oak on the 2nd try and got the same results. I placed a level on the rails of the UCB and it was coming back even. I could screw the board down and see if that helps. IF it does then I know the board is moving in the carrier. What do you think?

Steve I always make sure the rails are cleaned on the carrier. Is that what you mean, the rails the board lays on?

sunmiztres
07-08-2015, 05:42 PM
You are giving the extra 7" all on same board?

Using the UCB I do not need to give the extra 7"

bergerud
07-08-2015, 05:47 PM
Sounds good. Put some screws in the side holes. Look also at the rails. Maybe they are curved.

In my tests on my machine, the carrier did not move more than a thousandth of an inch under the bit when the rollers rolled off. I assumed that it was not going to be a problem. Different machines are different. We may learn something here.

sunmiztres
07-08-2015, 08:11 PM
Sounds good. Put some screws in the side holes. Look also at the rails. Maybe they are curved.

In my tests on my machine, the carrier did not move more than a thousandth of an inch under the bit when the rollers rolled off. I assumed that it was not going to be a problem. Different machines are different. We may learn something here.
I put 3 screws in each side as the board is 13" long. After putting the screws in I used my 1/8 shim to make sure the board was exactly sitting up by 1/8". The carve is 79% through so I looked at the edge coming out of the machine and there is a line going through the entire carve at exactly 2 3/4" on that side. The side the line is going through are the sides not laying on the rails ( the width of the board) which has me stumped. I figure if the rails were off the line would be thinner and thicker Since one side would be out of whack with the other side but to me it looks like the line is the same throughout the carve as far as depth. I will take pictures as I remove the carrier from the machine so you can understand what I am saying better and post them as soon as the carving is through.I am thinking the other side will also have the line going through but can't see that side at the moment.

SteveNelson46
07-08-2015, 08:23 PM
Steve I always make sure the rails are cleaned on the carrier. Is that what you mean, the rails the board lays on?

I was referring to the rails on the Z truck and the Y rails on the machine. If there is a wood chip or debris stuck to one of the Y rails it could cause the problem. I would check the bearings also.

bergerud
07-08-2015, 08:45 PM
It sounds to me like the carrier is moving in the machine when the rollers roll off of the board. Check your head pressure. Check if the bottom of your carrier is flat.

Why it is happening, I do not know, but, if you lay 1/8" shims on top of the carrier sides (after the measurement), it would have to stop.

(In my original design, I had the board up 1/4" above the sides and I used shims to keep the rollers up.)

sunmiztres
07-08-2015, 10:10 PM
I will put the shim on top and see if that helps. I have included some pictures that I just carved. Let me know if you see anything that might be wrong. I can also send the MPC if you need it. Why I am thinking it is not the carrier is only because on both carves the line is in the exact same place. If the carrier was moving wouldn't the line be in different places are wiggly, not a completely straight line?

sunmiztres
07-08-2015, 10:15 PM
I was referring to the rails on the Z truck and the Y rails on the machine. If there is a wood chip or debris stuck to one of the Y rails it could cause the problem. I would check the bearings also.

I did do a thorough cleaning of the machine before I started carving today so the rails on the machine are good. The bearings have no wiggle to them.

bergerud
07-08-2015, 10:41 PM
That 2.75 inches is exactly when the board comes out from under the roller. The carrier is lifting up a little when the roller pressure on the board decreases. To tell the truth, I was expecting the carrier to do that but then, on my machines, it did not. It may be differences between machines or carriers. I think you will have to use the shims.

Make four 4" long shims 1/8" thick and as wide as the tops of the sides (1/2" or 5/8"). After the board is measured, as part of the clamp down step, lay the shims on the tops of the sides so that the rollers will roll onto the shims as they roll off of the board.

I think I will have to change the operation instructions as this may happen to others. Thanks for trouble shooting this problem.

SteveNelson46
07-09-2015, 10:13 AM
That 2.75 inches is exactly when the board comes out from under the roller. The carrier is lifting up a little when the roller pressure on the board decreases. To tell the truth, I was expecting the carrier to do that but then, on my machines, it did not. It may be differences between machines or carriers. I think you will have to use the shims.

Make four 4" long shims 1/8" thick and as wide as the tops of the sides (1/2" or 5/8"). After the board is measured, as part of the clamp down step, lay the shims on the tops of the sides so that the rollers will roll onto the shims as they roll off of the board.

I think I will have to change the operation instructions as this may happen to others. Thanks for trouble shooting this problem.

Dan,
If the board is lifting slightly as the rollers leave the board, wouldn't that leave a horizontal line or depression?

EDIT: Maybe adjusting the infeed and outfeed tables would help.

bergerud
07-09-2015, 11:14 AM
Dan,
If the board is lifting slightly as the rollers leave the board, wouldn't that leave a horizontal line or depression?

EDIT: Maybe adjusting the infeed and outfeed tables would help.

It does leave the horizontal step. You can see it in the pictures.

As for the outfeed rollers, I think you are right on. I just realized this morning that my outfeed rollers are adjusted with a preload. (It makes no sense to me to have them adjusted to just touch the board. They spring down and do nothing.) Mine are adjusted higher and that is why my carrier does not move when the rollers roll off of the board onto the carrier sides.

In my desire to make the carrier operation as simple as possible, I was biased and was quick to take the behavior of my machines as typical. This was a mistake. Even with the outfeed rollers adjusted high like mine, there are cases where it will not help. Short boards for example. I usually put my boards in the middle of the carrier, and so, I never noticed the problem.

Just to be safe, I am going to have to recommend always using the four shims. (I use them all the time with ACB to put under the board during measurement. Then I take them out and the board drops below the sides. The problem does not exist when the board is just below the sides.)

bergerud
07-10-2015, 11:20 AM
I have made some shims to use with the UCB. There are cases where the decrease in roller pressure as the rollers roll off of the board result in carving depth change. These shims should have been part of the original project. I have added them to my list of changes.

One may or may not need to use them. Once made, however, they are easy to use and one just as well be safe and use them.

I worry about shims sliding off of the rails and so I made them with slots. You need some 1/4" thick material. The slots are 1/2" wide assuming that your carrier MDF is really 1/2" thick. If it is not. you will have to adjust the slot width on the mpc. Do this by dragging the yellow side handle on the long sides of the shims. (See the last picture.) The left side for the left two, the right side for the right two. Try and get the right number in the width box (rail width - 0.125). (Typing the number in the box does not properly scale the width, you must drag.) Some hand tuning or a few tries may be required. (Only 8 minutes to cut.) It is nice to have a set with a snug fit.

The four shims should not be used to set the board height. They may not all be exactly the same thickness. I think one should use a single shim at all four corners to set the rail heights.

Use is simple. After the board is measured, slide on the shims just before you clamp down the head.

(The front shims are different than the rear shims because of the stop blocks in the front of the carrier. Removing these stop blocks is on my list of changes and so the shims will be all the same for the improved UCB.)

sunmiztres
07-10-2015, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the shims. I like the way you made them so they stay on. I am getting ready to start another carve using shims and looking forward to the carve being perfect. Thanks.

sunmiztres
07-10-2015, 11:49 AM
Thanks for the shims. I like the way you made them so they stay on. I am getting ready to start another carve using shims and looking forward to the carve being perfect. Thanks.

I noticed you used 1/4 wood for the shims. I don't have any 1/4" wood. Can I use 1/2" wood and change the carving area to .375 instead of 1.25? I then used carve region to carve the side that goes in where the piece lays and made that .125 as in the original MPC.

bergerud
07-10-2015, 12:05 PM
I noticed you used 1/4 wood for the shims. I don't have any 1/4" wood. Can I use 1/2" wood and change the carving area to .375 instead of 1.25? I then used carve region to carve the side that goes on the side where the piece lays and made that .125 as in the original MPC.

It seems ok to me. You might want to do a single one as a test first. Slot width and depth may need to be tweaked.

oscarl48
07-10-2015, 02:12 PM
Dan thank you for doing this. You design keeps evolving better and better.

bergerud
07-10-2015, 05:11 PM
You are too kind. It was an oversight on my part. There is no denying, firewood was made! With the help of forum members like sunmiztres, I hope get the bugs worked out.

sunmiztres
07-11-2015, 12:10 AM
I used the shims and had a perfect carve. So happy. Thank you Bergerud for all the help.

bergerud
07-11-2015, 10:20 AM
Well, that is great. I think the shims will provide a simple and reliable method of keeping the carrier level.

(Much simpler than having to worry about outfeed roller adjustments and where the board edges are on the carrier.)

carrothers
07-12-2015, 11:03 AM
I bought the pattern a month of so ago and broke my carving bit twice....ready to try it again but I think you've made several updates to the original. Where do I go to get the latest? Thanks

sunmiztres
07-12-2015, 11:16 AM
I bought the pattern a month of so ago and broke my carving bit twice....ready to try it again but I think you've made several updates to the original. Where do I go to get the latest? Thanks

I don't believe there was a main update to the original pattern, only the ACB. You can always re-download the pattern by going into the designer and then to Help tab and click on manage licenses. Go to web account login and after logging in you will see all the patterns or projects you bought with a download link.
As far as breaking bits. At what point in the process of loading your project is the bit breaking? One really needs to figure out why this is happening so it does not happen again. If you don't find out why it will certainly happen again. The pattern for UCB will not break a bit as long as you don't change anything about the pattern as far as the depth of the cut and you are using the correct size of wood the project calls for. Are you placing the bit all the way in the chuck? The only time I Have ever broken a bit was if I was carving to deep ( don't carve any deeper then .25", if you do you are risking breaking a bit), or if I used a screw to hold a board to a sled and the bit hit the screw because I did not place the screw in the correct location. There really are not to many ways to break a bit. If you follow the PDF included with the UCB project to a Tee you will be fine.

bergerud
07-12-2015, 11:45 AM
If you would like to make the one I sent to the conference, go to:

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=247053#post247053

It is for 5/8" thick but you can change it to 1/2". It does not have the stop blocks and the touch blocks are a little higher. It also has the side clamping slots which is a feature of the Advanced Carrier Base.

BUT, you have to find out why you are braking bits! I think something may be wrong with your machine. If I recall, you broke the bit on a very shallow pass.

sunmiztres
07-12-2015, 12:53 PM
How does the side clamping slots work? Really interested in 2 sided carves. I would like to make the ACB but wondering how the advanced part works.

bergerud
07-12-2015, 01:44 PM
For double sided carves, the rails are smooth so the board can slide in and out. (No sand paper or the rails flipped over so sand paper is down.) The rails are adjusted so that the board is slightly below the carrier sides. Shims are put under the board to raise it the 1/8" for the measurement stage. After the measurement, the shims are removed and the board dropped back down as the head is cranked down. The side clamps produce the friction to hold the board from moving during the measuring and the carving. The board can be removed at will without lifting the head by simply releasing the clamps and sliding the board out. (With the stop blocks removed from the design, the board comes out the front.)

The advantage of all of this is that, since the board is measured only once, the x line up of a double sided carve will be exact. When the board is flipped over, it is slid back in to exactly the same x position. (Up against a stop bolt in a side hole.)

The y line up is another matter and is the subject of my ongoing experiments. The mpc has to be split into two separate projects and so on. It is complicated and one wrong button press can mean having to start all over again. If I had found a simple way to do it, it would have been incorporated into the UCB.

sunmiztres
07-12-2015, 03:22 PM
For double sided carves, the rails are smooth so the board can slide in and out. (No sand paper or the rails flipped over so sand paper is down.) The rails are adjusted so that the board is slightly below the carrier sides. Shims are put under the board to raise it the 1/8" for the measurement stage. After the measurement, the shims are removed and the board dropped back down as the head is cranked down. The side clamps produce the friction to hold the board from moving during the measuring and the carving. The board can be removed at will without lifting the head by simply releasing the clamps and sliding the board out. (With the stop blocks removed from the design, the board comes out the front.)

The advantage of all of this is that, since the board is measured only once, the x line up of a double sided carve will be exact. When the board is flipped over, it is slid back in to exactly the same x position. (Up against a stop bolt in a side hole.)

The y line up is another matter and is the subject of my ongoing experiments. The mpc has to be split into two separate projects and so on. It is complicated and one wrong button press can mean having to start all over again. If I had found a simple way to do it, it would have been incorporated into the UCB.

Are the clamps themselves included in the mpc or does one need to make them or buy them?

bergerud
07-12-2015, 04:06 PM
The clamp is just more ready rod, nuts, washers, and a knob.

Note the slot in the carrier board. The clamp does a double duty. (Notice the stop bolt.)

Edit: this is a subject for the other Experimental Carrier Board thread

sunmiztres
07-12-2015, 04:31 PM
The clamp is just more ready rod, nuts, washers, and a knob.

Note the slot in the carrier board. The clamp does a double duty. (Notice the stop bolt.)

Edit: this is a subject for the other Experimental Carrier Board thread

Great I understand now. The clamp just brings the sides in tighter to clamp the piece tight between the sides. My brain was thinking the clamp was going to clamp the board to the rails.

skeeterman
07-13-2015, 06:59 PM
just ordered the universal base carrier, may be a week or so before i can get it carved, but looks very promising
steve

sunmiztres
07-16-2015, 12:49 AM
Since I have started using the shims the carves are great, no lines in the carve but I have noticed that my cut outs are about 1/8 from being cut out. I ran the test for depth and it came back being over an inch for 3/4" board. I then thought I would calibrate the depth but got an error. Can't remember exactly what the error said but can rerun the test and let you know what it said if you need be. I know it said something about being out of range. Any thoughts on why the cut out is not being cut out?
Thanks for your insight.

bergerud
07-16-2015, 09:54 AM
I do cutouts all the time without a problem. The depth is determined by the touch on the board and the project board thickness. What is the message you get after the right touch block touch?

One can also take off both touch blocks. The machine will bob through the hole and then air bob three times on the right. It will then ask if the sliding plate is in place, answer Yes and it will ask for the board thickness. (The only problem with operating this way is that sometimes, one gets a board too thick error after the air bob on the left.)

Truth be told, I made the touch blocks a little low. All machines are different and I did not want the blocks to be too high for anyone (Maybe yours is too high.) With the blocks low, the machine just operates as if the board was on a thin sled. I figured this was better than the problems caused by the machine thinking the board was too thin. If one really wanted the touch blocks to be accurate for their machine, they should tweak the height of the right touch block to agree with the height of their sliding plate. Machine depth calibration should be done normally with the sliding plate and then the jig made to agree.

To make the jig agree, put a board in the machine. Put the bit on the board and turn on the machine. Go to the z sensor data. It will read 0.000. Now move the bit over and touch it to the sliding plate. Record the number. Now put the same board in the carrier and repeat the procedure. The difference between the two numbers is the thickness of shim you need to make. Make it out of a small piece of hardwood and glue it on to the touch block.

I have to say, however, that for most people, making the touch block agree with the machine is not worth the trouble. The only advantage that I see is in the one case where you put in a board which is thicker than your project board and you let the machine decide on the cut through thickness.

sunmiztres
07-16-2015, 10:03 AM
I don't get a message after the right touch block touch. IT never asks whether I want the board or the project depth. The machine at times would ask when I didn't use the shim but it hasn't since I started using the shims. The boards I am using are the same stock I normally use and are 3/4".

bergerud
07-16-2015, 10:09 AM
Can you try a cutout down on the belts? Maybe your problem is not to do with the UCB.

sunmiztres
07-16-2015, 02:08 PM
Can you try a cutout down on the belts? Maybe your problem is not to do with the UCB.

I did the cut out on the belt and it cut out to the correct depth. Never asked if I wanted the depth of the project or board but then it never would if I used the correct size board in the project. I guess I will go ahead and do what you said about making a shim for the touch plate on the UCB.

bergerud
07-16-2015, 02:24 PM
This does not make sense to me. Try it without the touch blocks. Just take them both off or jog to the other hole. The machine will bob extra times, ask if the sliding plate is set (say Yes) and then ask for the board thickness.

bergerud
07-17-2015, 11:16 AM
Any update on the problem?

sunmiztres
07-19-2015, 04:34 PM
Any update on the problem?

I took the touch plates off and the machine then asked if I want to use the project depth or the board depth. With the touch blocks on it would not ask. I then tried the touch blocks in my older machine and it did ask about the depth with the touch blocks on. I also noticed that my new machine always asks if I want to cut the board to size on a project but my older machine never asks this. Not sure this is.

bergerud
07-19-2015, 05:56 PM
I took the touch plates off and the machine then asked if I want to use the project depth or the board depth. With the touch blocks on it would not ask. I then tried the touch blocks in my older machine and it did ask about the depth with the touch blocks on. I also noticed that my new machine always asks if I want to cut the board to size on a project but my older machine never asks this. Not sure this is.

The difference between machines could be different z depth calibrations. One with rubber and one with sandpaper? As for the cut board to size, that can be turned off. Same card - firmware in each machine?

Underdog
11-07-2015, 09:15 AM
Dumb question on cutting this thing out. When uploading to the card, I was asked if I wanted to Ignore (the cuts making the project come out from under the rollers), Manual Jig, or Auto Jig this project.
I know I don't want to Auto Jig, but do I ignore this, and just use the longer board, or manual jig it?

mtylerfl
11-07-2015, 10:17 AM
Just make sure your real board placed into the machine is at least a "tad" over 7" longer than the layout (on-screen) board. This is the normal 7" Rule - exactly how all the projects of the month are laid out and run.

No need whatsoever to make the board any longer than that (i.e., some folks make their boards 8" longer for some silly reason). ;)

bergerud
11-07-2015, 10:43 AM
Different people do things in different ways. I usually make the Designer board as small as possible. I make it so it just fits around the carving or cutting. I find there are many advantages to doing this. The disadvantage is that you get the warnings on upload. These can be ignored as long as the real board is large enough to stay under the rollers and keep things like the cut throughs away from the brass roller. In the case of the UCB, you can ignore the warning as long as you are using the size of board in the instructions. (I guess I should have mentioned to ignore the warning in the instructions.)

bergerud
11-07-2015, 11:08 AM
I should also add that these warning messages are something you will get used to when you use the UCB. One of the main features of the UCB is that you do not need the real boards to be 7" longer than the pattern. As a matter of practice, the virtual board in Designer will always be just big enough for the project and upload will always have a warning to ignore. (You should still read them as there can be other reasons for warnings!)

mtylerfl
11-07-2015, 11:14 AM
...(I guess I should have mentioned to ignore the warning in the instructions.)

In all the POM instructions, I show a screenshot of the "warning" message along with a description and what the ACTUAL board dimensions should be for a given project. I endeavor to leave nothing to chance, and spell everything out step-by-step. That way, even if a Beginner runs a project, they will be successful even if they don't have an understanding of "why" certain procedures are followed when starting out.

bergerud
11-07-2015, 11:30 AM
Thanks Michael. I will add the warning info. I do plan on revising the project and I will put this on the list.

Underdog
11-09-2015, 08:26 AM
Ok. Thanks. I figured that was what I needed to do, but I thought I'd check with the experts...
I took a 14-1/2" x 96" rip and cut it oversize for both projects, so I have plenty of material.... I have all the hardware, so now I just need to feed it to the beast.

Underdog
11-15-2015, 01:26 PM
Got it cut out yesterday, now to put the thing together... Loved the fact that all I had to do was put the 1/8th bit in the machine and let 'er rip.

While I'm on the subject, is it possible to use this sled for scanning as well as cutting?

bergerud
11-15-2015, 01:50 PM
While I'm on the subject, is it possible to use this sled for scanning as well as cutting?

Good question. I see no reason why not. You would have to use a board as a base and devise a way to fix it in place. Tape?

hrlevill
11-16-2015, 02:43 PM
I made one of the carriers found one think in the instruction that Don.t jive it's state put the short touch pad on one side and the long one on the other thing is my touch pads were cut out both the same size tried to do.a carve all.remedial.put the machine asked me the thickness of the board so.I.put it in and away it went is there a reason for it to.ask other than worked ok just got to.get use to.it

bergerud
11-16-2015, 02:56 PM
They are cut the same size but the bolt holes are in different places so that the top of one is lower than the top of the other. The lower one goes on the keypad side and the higher one on the sliding plate side.

Underdog
12-01-2015, 09:04 PM
Got the pieces out of the matrix and sanded the tabs off tonight. (I know, I'm a slowpoke, so sue me.:D ) And then I used the drill trick to get rid of the tabs in the slots. Just had to wonder about that... why tabs in the slots? Why not just delete those tabs and cut through? Wouldn't that be much cleaner? I don't think that little bit of interior material is going to break anything if it lets go...

bergerud
12-01-2015, 09:45 PM
Got the pieces out of the matrix and sanded the tabs off tonight. (I know, I'm a slowpoke, so sue me.:D ) And then I used the drill trick to get rid of the tabs in the slots. Just had to wonder about that... why tabs in the slots? Why not just delete those tabs and cut through? Wouldn't that be much cleaner? I don't think that little bit of interior material is going to break anything if it lets go...

The tabs come along with the cutouts. They cannot be turned off. I also tried just using bit paths but I wanted the mpc to work for 1/2" and 5/8" thick boards without having to change all the depths of the cuts. The cutout automatically adjusts for the thickness of the board.

Underdog
12-04-2015, 05:12 PM
I see. Sure wish we had a pocketing routine with this software... don't you?

Hey, what are the touch holes/blocks for? I've been searching for a 5/16" forstner bit too, and can't seem to find one locally. I may have to clamp thin stock to the top and use a regular twist drill....

bergerud
12-04-2015, 06:14 PM
Hey, what are the touch holes/blocks for? I've been searching for a 5/16" forstner bit too, and can't seem to find one locally. I may have to clamp thin stock to the top and use a regular twist drill....

The touch blocks are just to fool the firmware into thinking the board is down on the belts and that it is measuring the board thickness. The touch blocks mimic the touch points at the brass roller and at the sliding plate. The drilled hole mimics the hole in the sliding plate.

The Forstner bit just gives a clean hole. A brad point bit would as well. Drill the holes any way you can. A regular bit as you say though some scrap should work.

Underdog
12-06-2015, 07:16 AM
Thanks! I haven't been able to finish this thing up. Had too many other projects I'm working on. Specifically a lift desk to help with my sitting too much problem.

Sconi
12-08-2015, 02:28 PM
Pretty much a newbie on Cartwright and using jigs of any kind.

I just got this project put together, not as daunting as the instructions seemed. I did use a thick washer to push in the t nuts with a vice as it was easier than trying to use a socket that kept falling out. I also would have liked a better explanation about what the touch blocks do as I first put them in upside down.

I have had a couple of problems getting it to carve, it doesn't seem like the CW can find the touch block - I tried to jog it as the directions said, but apparently I don't know exactly where and how to jog to, I thought I lined up on the mark but didn't know how far over to jog to left/right to the board, carrier or the mark.... also I got several errors regarding the sliding plate don't know if that was a result of my jogging or not....

A step by step explanation of how and where to jog to would be helpful for one as apparently uninformed as I am, a guide for the really dumb dummies....

Any thoughts?

mjc

bergerud
12-08-2015, 02:52 PM
First, the two touch blocks are different. The lower one goes on the keypad side and the higher one on the sliding plate side. Hopefully, having them switched is the reason for the sliding plate messages.

You do not have to jog across the board (unless you want to touch some special spot on the board.) You only have to jog in the x direction to line up the touch blocks and hole. Just x jog to the line on the left side across from the hole on the right side.

(I have been holding off on discussing the touch blocks. I hoped to keep it simple.)

Sconi
12-09-2015, 11:42 AM
Thanks that info is very helpful, both blocks appear to the the same height tho, can I just shim it or should I try to cut another, in my mpc both are the same size.

I also plan to elongate the touch hole a bit as suggested by another in this forum.

At times I need a little more direction and your help is appreciated, I understand a reluctance to keep the touch blocks out of the discussion, and I do like to keep it simple whenever possible. :)

bergerud
12-09-2015, 12:06 PM
The bolt holes in the touch blocks are in different positions. One block mounts lower than the other.

Sconi
12-09-2015, 03:13 PM
Should have thought of that myself, thanks again.

hrlevill
01-15-2016, 02:15 PM
I have been in touch with Dan many times and he can not under stand it either and here is what is happening if i try to.carve a cribbage board that is 5/4 wood with .the carrier and follow all the directions the machine CARVES way to.deep. tried it with it with out the touch blocks works fine on the belt any one have any ideas !!!really got me stumped

mtylerfl
01-15-2016, 03:53 PM
Joe,

What is the TOTAL height of the material plus the jig when put into the machine?

hrlevill
01-15-2016, 04:12 PM
Don.t know will have to.check it
Joe,

What is the TOTAL height of the material plus the jig when put into the machine?

hrlevill
01-15-2016, 04:44 PM
Mike just checked it out the carrier is 3 1/2 in. High with a 5/4 board in it and the rails lowered down so the5/4 board sticks up 1/8 above the side as per instructions the total hight is 3 5/8 high

liquidguitars
01-15-2016, 04:53 PM
Side note: I always make designer layout to include the end blocks for my jigs and never as small as possible I just can not see any advantage making the design small. This is probably why I do not produce my guitars patterns as that seems to be to radical for users. This jig reflects longer is better not unlike my sleds I make. Nice work!

79576

liquidguitars
01-15-2016, 05:06 PM
The index should be at the same height as the top caved surface.

mtylerfl
01-15-2016, 05:58 PM
Mike just checked it out the carrier is 3 1/2 in. High with a 5/4 board in it and the rails lowered down so the5/4 board sticks up 1/8 above the side as per instructions the total hight is 3 5/8 high

How far too deep are the holes? By any chance are the holes 1/8" too deep than you specified in your design layout?

hrlevill
01-15-2016, 06:10 PM
Mike the thing is not the holes as I could not check them as I stop.the machine as SOON as I saw it was carving why to.deep.in the letters and numbers on the board I do not pick the depth of cut on the letters as they are set by the bit used in the MPC which are 60. And 90 degree bits drill.holes would be 1/8 by 1/2 deep who I use on all boards

liquidguitars
01-15-2016, 07:50 PM
Please feel free to delete all my posts on this thread the intent was to tell people that I add the tail blocks in Designer. I exported violins all over the world now using the CW and my system. why we are talking about Aspire is not the point. However if MT is right about Aspire you could not do nesting at all.

Rocketman
01-16-2016, 05:41 PM
I just read your instructions for making the universal board carrier in the projects section. I'm curious as to why you didn't include your notes on using the Carvewright to make the pocket? I downloaded your file for the hole in 5/8" material and altered it for the 1/2" material I built mine out of. I did a lot of guessing to get the thing cutting but in the end the Carvewright did cut my touch slot. Had I read your instructions on surfing through the menu screens prior to this probably would have prevented a few of the many restarts I did before I got it working.

I'm still not sure on the height blocks. I've got the longer one on the touch plate side but my machine always seems to just miss actually touching them at all. I may have to try your calibration trick to make spacers or custom blocks that match my touch plate better.

The only problem with my touch slot file is bit selection works a little strange. The file only uses the 1/8" cutting bit but for some strange reason the machine always asks to load the 1/16" carving bit first! A CArvewright bug?

Brad

bergerud
01-16-2016, 06:15 PM
I thought that getting the machine to cut the touch hole was going to cause more trouble for people than it was worth. After the whole process of building the UCB, it would be a shame to have the last operation wreck it. It seemed safer to just drill a hole with a hand drill. (Also, for the 1/2" side, the pocket leaves a very thin edge.)

Whether the machine touches the blocks or not depends on the thickness of the board in the carrier. The thicker the board, the farther down go the blocks. The bit should touch the blocks for up to a 1" thick board. (The blocks are actually designed a little low. I did not want anyone getting a board too thin message.)

The reason the machine asks for the 1/16" carving bit is because it uses that bit for the jog pointer. You could have just kept the 1/8" cutting bit in.

Rocketman
01-16-2016, 09:34 PM
I took a chance on mine and let the machine do the pocket. I figured I could fill any mistakes easy enough. Most people that own a Carvewright probably own a drill of some kind anyway so I guess it's not really a big deal anyway.

Another thing. If the Carvewright detects the board because of a height difference why can't you put the board flush with the top of the carrier and put a cutout on the rail on the keyboard side an 1/8" down to create the step? If it would work it would let you get rid of the shims you designed for the four corners. I would think a small slot an 1/8" deep won't cause any roller issues since the board is not usually carved all the way to the edges anyway.

Brad

bergerud
01-16-2016, 11:00 PM
Another thing. If the Carvewright detects the board because of a height difference why can't you put the board flush with the top of the carrier and put a cutout on the rail on the keyboard side an 1/8" down to create the step? If it would work it would let you get rid of the shims you designed for the four corners. I would think a small slot an 1/8" deep won't cause any roller issues since the board is not usually carved all the way to the edges anyway.

Brad

How would that work for boards of different lengths? You would have to have the whole left side (or much of it) lower by the 1/8". As for the shims, I never had to use them. With the out feed rollers adjusted with a little pre-stress, I never had a problem.

Also, when I use my carrier for double sided carves, I lower the board a little below the sides after it is measured.

ktjwilliams
01-17-2016, 12:34 PM
Intersting , very interesting ..... I still have to build mine, been very busy with some home remodeling ....

Rocketman
01-17-2016, 02:51 PM
I figured the only time the board was being measured was at the beginning of the job. If that's true I could jog to a cut in my carrier rail and let it measure the board there. It seems to track down the center of the board to measure the length in which case I would not need to lower the entire side. As far as different length boards go; I could put several slots on a longer carrier similar to what you did with your touch holes. As far as setting it up slightly below the rails, it would still work as long as you jogged to the board for touch off. I think you said somewhere there can't be a height difference more than 1/4" so if we stay within the bounds it should work. Now if it's measuring board length down the edge of the board my ideas have no merit.

bergerud
01-17-2016, 03:32 PM
There is a connection between the rollers dropping and the board sensor. The board sensor only looks for the board edge after a roller has dropped. It knows about where to find the board edge based on where the roller dropped. (Jogging has nothing to do with it.) The rollers have to drop where the edge of the board is or the machine will give an edge detection error.

I may not understand what you are suggesting, but what you are thinking must take the roller - board sensor relationship into account.

It is possible to to have the machine only locate the back end of the board if one uses place on end instead of place on center. In this case, the machine does not even look for the front edge of the board. (I used this with my early rotary jig. I had a rear roller lifter which dropped to fool the machine into thinking there was a rear board edge. Then a piece of black tape on the dowel fooled the board sensor into thinking it detected the rear board edge.) I think that same basic idea would work. You would place the board in the carrier so the back edge lined up with your slot in the side. You could do this for different length boards as the it does not matter where the front edge of the board is.

Rocketman
01-17-2016, 07:33 PM
I think what your suggesting is a slot in both sides of the carrier at the end of the board so the roller does in fact drop? I do like that idea even more! Place on end works to use even less material out of given board. Sometimes my boards are longer than my project but not quite long enough to fall in the 7" limit. Placing on end would give me a few inches I may or may not be able to use for gluing up in laminate pattern work later.

I've found setting the rails by measuring down 1/8" less than my board thickness with an adjustable square is easier than trying to hold an 1/8" shim and tighten things at the same time. I really like the idea of setting it flush or slightly below to simplify setup and get rid of the shims all together.

The Rube Goldberg way of fixing it would be to add a small stereo ear phone jack in series to the roller switch so that when an ear phone jack is plugged into it, it would break the connection. The inserted ear phone jack would be hooked to a small lever switch mounted on the top of the carrier and would become active in place of the roller switch when plugged in. The switch would be tripped by a feeler mounted on the machine so that at the appropriate spot 3-1/2" from the end of the carrier, it would activate and fool the machine into thinking the roller had dropped and turn on the board sensor. To make it even more absurd, rather than have it wireless, have a series of cable routers with small retractable pulleys hanging on the thing to keep the carrier switch cable from getting caught in the carrier and track rollers as they move back and forth.

I'm still going to give some thought of a more practical way of fooling the roller drop sensor to trip the board measuring sensor. I've got plenty of optical sensors, magnetic sensors, limit switches, lever switches and more at my disposal to figure out a way to take the roller out of the equation. It's not a big deal but it does bug me.

That extra servo motor I now have on hand may be used in a future project rotary jig project. While you and Baker have come up with some clever solutions to fool the machine, my idea is to take part of that ear phone jack idea and incorporate it into a method to disable the X drive. I'm thinking of building a rotary jig with it's own servo drive motor. I'd need to gear it so it's the same travel rate as the original X to make programming easier. Rather than and ear phone jack I'd need enough connection points to provide the power and quad encoder connections. I'm thinking of soldering it up so that by removing one plug I can disable the X axis and then move my rotary jig in place and plug it in where the original X connects. The signals sent to the X axis would now go to the the rotary jig. As a bonus I could wire in the Y axis with a plug also. Then if I wanted to turn something longer I could make a long rotary jig and place it on the table like we do a board. The servo would get plugged into the Y axis in this configuration and the X axis would move the jig under the now stationary cutter. I might need to make a clamp to hold the Y axis from moving when disabled from power but that would be simple enough.

The above idea is not mine. Back in the early 80's we had a commercial Tree brand CNC mill. This thing was about the size and shape of a Bridgeport mill and ran mostly in an X, Y and Z configuration. The clever thing about it was it came with a rotary axis that could be bolted to the table. It was designed so you could take the huge motor off the X or Y drive and mount it to the rotary table. You then coded any rotary motion using either X or Y depending on which axis you stole the motor off. It had a key punch typewriter machine that you used to program with. Any changes in a program involved punching a new tape. If you needed many of something it worked great but in today's world where the orders are for one of these and two of those it would never make you money with all the setup time and program time you would have invested.

bergerud
01-18-2016, 08:39 AM
I've found setting the rails by measuring down 1/8" less than my board thickness with an adjustable square is easier than trying to hold an 1/8" shim and tighten things at the same time. I really like the idea of setting it flush or slightly below to simplify setup and get rid of the shims all together.


Have you seen the pop up rails that I use?

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=248999#post248999
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=249293#post249293

If only one could come up with a simpler design for them. They make the carrier more versatile and easier to use. I had hoped to incorporate these or something like these in plans for a better carrier base.

(Now you have me thinking again. Maybe I will play with the place on end idea.)

Rocketman
01-18-2016, 08:28 PM
Have you seen the pop up rails that I use?

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=248999#post248999
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=249293#post249293

If only one could come up with a simpler design for them. They make the carrier more versatile and easier to use. I had hoped to incorporate these or something like these in plans for a better carrier base.

(Now you have me thinking again. Maybe I will play with the place on end idea.)

Yes I seen your rails. Very clever! That's kind of why I slid in the Rube Goldberg reference, I figured you could relate to overbuilding something and making it complex just to accomplish a simple task.

I was just thinking about your rails last night. The answer I came up with is to make the rail slots as a zig-zag pattern with each motion from side to side allowing the rail to move up or down in 1/8" or maybe 1/4" increments. The rails would be easy to adjust in increments and the angle of the zig-zags would help to hold the rails in place while locking them down. With most conventional lumber in even sizes this might work. Odd sized lumber or stuff I run through the planer for example would need fine tuning to get it to work with the zig-zags. This could be done by having thumb screws on the rails. When the screws are all the way down it would be for normal lumber. You could adjust the thumb screws up for odd sized boards and even set them independently for odd tapered lumber for example.

What do you think? Would it work?

Brad

bergerud
01-18-2016, 09:04 PM
The main problem with the pop up rails is friction. They have to drop while under head pressure. I could not get the inclined plane idea to work because of friction.

Rocketman
01-18-2016, 10:07 PM
So much for my zig-zag idea. I was thinking since it would always be a downward slope that the head pressure might even help it down to the next position. I guess I'm back to adding additional complexity to make it slide up and down.

Reduce friction by making the sides out of plastic? We have plastic boards reasonable priced here in Iowa. They are made out of recycled milk cartons. Many of the farmers like to install them as rub zones inside their barns to prevent hogs and cattle from rubbing holes in their barns. You can cut it with a saw, drill it and screw to it just like wood. If nothing else it would make a long lasting carrier. Another impractical idea would be a rack and pinion system like those built into drill presses with a crank on the carrier to move it up and down. That's getting almost as complicated as your "deluxe" rail system but not quite the parts count.

Long story short, I'm sure I'm going to loose sleep over this. It's hard to turn off an active mind with a thread of an idea still present and waiting to be pulled at.

I've always liked your popup rails but I'm hoping I can come up with something a little simpler. So far that seems to be revisiting the "place on end of board" and my slot idea.

I did a two sided carve today and even tried to shim the rollers so I could slide the board out to flip it. With those stop blocks in my carrier it really turned in to a challenge. When I failed at that I went back to the computer and reprogrammed the second side as a separate project. I then flipped my board and started with the second side as a solo project. Things measured properly and it all worked out in the end but I'm still going to hit the hay tonight thinking on this challenge a little more. I'll probably be dreaming of your popup rails and wishing I'd have made me some rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

mav36
01-19-2016, 02:13 PM
I m having a problem also with v groove bit carving too deep. i did the 1/8 height and 2 carving went deep. Did 1 without carrier and it worked fine. any suggestions what I might be doing wrong.79650

bergerud
01-19-2016, 02:22 PM
My first guess would be that you let the bit touch the board before you cranked the head all the way down.

hrlevill
01-20-2016, 03:16 PM
Join the club I have that problem when doing 5/4 boards for cribbage boards with the carrier the bit CARVES to.DEEP and I follow the carrier directions to the letter carve the same board on the belts so rt is fine !!

bergerud
01-20-2016, 04:00 PM
Is it possible that you are jogging the bit to touch on the carrier sides instead of the board surface?

hrlevill
01-20-2016, 06:31 PM
Thanks Dan will.give it another try when it states load the 1/8 bit I do that dose it's thing I hit stop and jog3 it states to jog it to the front touch point carrier directions I do.that and I think then it dose it's own thing I did not think I had to.jog the bit to touch the board I have given it a rest for a few days pretty well.caught up.on other projects in the shop.will.give it as other go thanks for your help.

bergerud
01-21-2016, 08:57 AM
I wonder if you might be measuring the carrier width instead of the board width. If true, it would then touch on the carrier side instead of the board edge. Watch and make sure that the black markings on the carrier sides are fooling the board sensor into only measuring the board. You can tell by where the truck stops as it measures.

rickroy
01-21-2016, 09:05 AM
I wonder if you might be measuring the carrier width instead of the board width. If true, it would then touch on the carrier side instead of the board edge. Watch and make sure that the black markings on the carrier sides are fooling the board sensor into only measuring the board. You can tell by where the truck stops as it measures.
It seems to me that when measuring the board, the controller side of the sled is always going to be considered as part of the board width. Therefore, to my way of thinking, it is better to read the far edge of the sled and center the whole thing. Yes, it does always ask me if the sliding plate is in place and I always have to input the depth of the board. Other than that, I see no downside. Am I missing something?

bergerud
01-21-2016, 11:12 AM
It seems to me that when measuring the board, the controller side of the sled is always going to be considered as part of the board width. Therefore, to my way of thinking, it is better to read the far edge of the sled and center the whole thing. Yes, it does always ask me if the sliding plate is in place and I always have to input the depth of the board. Other than that, I see no downside. Am I missing something?

The keypad side of the carrier is not measured if it is colored black. With both sides of the carrier black, only the board width is measured.

If you do not have the sides colored black, the machine will try and measure the carrier width. Accuracy and low board sensor readings may be a problem since the board sensor is focused to measure a little higher. In my experiments with this, I put aluminum tape on the sides. (You could also paint the sides white.)

see: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27282-Poorman-s-Board-Carrier&p=244517#post244517

A down side is that the machine will bob three times on the sliding plate side before asking about the sliding plate and the board thickness. The up side is that you do not need the hole in the carrier side and you do not need the touch blocks. You do, however, still need to jog to get the touch on the board.

I thought very hard about making the operation this way and I would have except, on some machines, the bob at the keypad side gives a "Board Too Thick" error if there is no touch block. I tried to get an explanation from LHR as to why this error occurs, but, I did not get it. So, I went with the complete "trick the machine into thinking the board was on the belts" routine. I could not have the carrier work for some people and not others.

I had planned on explaining this other method but then I though some people might get confused. Now that you have mentioned it, here we go!

rickroy
01-21-2016, 02:50 PM
Thanks! I can put up with the 3 bobs and the little extra time.
Now, how about some of that stair tread tape on the bottom side of the sled on the brass roller side? Has anyone tried it and if so, what were the results?

hrlevill
01-21-2016, 03:46 PM
Here's where I am with what is going on with my carrier one time it cuts the depth say with a 60 degree bit fine the next time it CARVES to.deep Dan clear me up.on something that may be I.am.missing on after the 1/8 bit loads and dose it's thing I stop it enter jog3 and hold the arrow so.it jogs to.the black line and stops now do I want to.jog to.x till.it stops or do.I just hit enter when it stops at the black.line on the side if the carrier lots of times it ask about the slide plate and board thickness but not always there's GLICH there some place just got to.figure it out!!

bergerud
01-21-2016, 03:47 PM
I do not think we need tape on the bottom of the carrier. I believe that poor tracking on regular boards is mostly caused by vibration. (Vibration can confuse the encoder disc.) I do not believe the brass roller ever actually slips. (If it did we would notice a big difference whether the O ring was on or off.) Using masking tape on the board edge helps, I think, because it helps damp the vibrations.

With the carrier, the board and cutting vibration are far from the brass roller. I have not yet had any tracking problems while using the carriers. (I have had plenty of tracking problems down on the belts.)

bergerud
01-21-2016, 04:02 PM
Here's where I am with what is going on with my carrier one time it cuts the depth say with a 60 degree bit fine the next time it CARVES to.deep Dan clear me up.on something that may be I.am.missing on after the 1/8 bit loads and dose it's thing I stop it enter jog3 and hold the arrow so.it jogs to.the black line and stops now do I want to.jog to.x till.it stops or do.I just hit enter when it stops at the black.line on the side if the carrier lots of times it ask about the slide plate and board thickness but not always there's GLICH there some place just got to.figure it out!!

After the board is measured and it asks for the bit, crank the head down (both rollers should be on the board). When it starts to "Find the Board Surface", press STOP and the 3)Jog. After that, all you have to do is jog x to put the bit at a black line on the keypad side. Press Enter and the bit should just make it onto the board for the two touches. (If the carving-cutting is to be more than 1/2" deep, it will it will go to the other side and bob into the hole and then touch the block.)

As long as the head is cranked down when the bit touches twice on the board, the carving depth should be right.

hrlevill
01-21-2016, 04:31 PM
Ok when you are carving a cribbage board I use 3 bits first load is the 90 degree I crank the head down all.the way next is the1/8 cutting bit it dose it's thing and that's when I hit stop jog 3 hit the arrow and hold it board jogs to.the black line on the key board and stops there when I do it again I will.watch close see what happens after that!!And before I load the 60 degree bit

JLT
01-22-2016, 06:41 AM
The main problem with the pop up rails is friction. They have to drop while under head pressure. I could not get the inclined plane idea to work because of friction.

Haven't studied the design of the carrier sled in full, but am wondering if a double hinge action clamp might do the trick... (See attached rough sketch.) This would avoid the friction issue. The concept of course would be to have the lower hinged board extend out the front of the carrier for easy access to twist, to either tighten or loosen the clamp board against the board in the carrier. The hinge on the clamping boards would need to go just past 180 degrees in order to "snap" into place under pressure. And cutting notches on the top clamping board would allow the clamping board to avoid other carrier mechanisms / obstructions... Just a random half baked thought...

Jon

bergerud
01-22-2016, 08:51 AM
That is a good idea. How about roller chain links used like your hinges?

hrlevill
01-22-2016, 09:04 AM
Dan here is where I am today with my. Carrier and it crazy tried different things jog to touch point line jig the x kept telling me to o
Load 1/8 which was already in the Chuck did that a few times stop machine start over dud it's thing jog to line then it ask fir x had no idea put in 15 then it asked for x again no idea put in 25 the machine started its carve and low and behold carving at the correct depth now figure that one out I hope and can do.it the same way again also I use a lot of 5\4 boards for cribbage should I do anything different to.the carrier the test I have done have been with 4/4 board

hrlevill
01-22-2016, 09:06 AM
Correction my last post the machine asked for Y after the X and then I.put in 25. Sorry about that it is working crazy to.say the least!!!

bergerud
01-22-2016, 11:20 AM
You can use the arrows to jog or you can use numbers to jog. If you press a wrong button, (not an arrow) it kicks into number mode. You can press stop and get back to arrow mode.

JLT
01-22-2016, 11:39 AM
How about roller chain links used like your hinges?


After a bit more thought, I'd re-arrange the hinges as in the first attachment, and then to tighten, simply twist until the two clamp boards are at 180deg, standing flat on top of each other. The bottom clamp board would also seem best to be on the sled runner that's contacting the belts, in order to not stress the sled sides, and to have the clamp boards truly be between the direct line of force between the CW belts and rollers...


Am trying to picture the use of roller chain links. Because the chain would create a loose joint between the two boards, seems like it might only work if the top clamp board is resting against the sled side. (See second attachment.) A twist of the lower clamp board should force the top clamp board up, pressing against the carving board, and the roller chain link should then snap against the side. Not sure if I've captured the roller chain concept properly, but in this rendition of the clamp, I think the engineering has to be more exact. Plus, I believe the roller chains can only be attached on the ends of the boards, whereas in the hinge model, they can run the length, to help support the joint between the clamp boards for long sleds...


Again, not sure if I captured the use of the roller chains as hinges properly in order to create a clamping force...

bergerud
01-22-2016, 01:29 PM
That looks good but it has to move up and down in the carrier for different thicknesses of boards.

The roller chain thing I was thinking of was the same principle but quite different I guess. I was thinking two chain links could do the job of the two hinges. Push sideways on the middle joint to lift the top rail. Maybe I have to draw some pictures!

JLT
01-22-2016, 03:13 PM
...it has to move up and down in the carrier for different thicknesses of boards.

I guess I thought you were looking for a way to drop the board just enough to slide it out while the rollers are still on the sled frame. So, if the board is 1/8" proud of the sled frame, then all that's required is to drop the board ~1/4" then, correct? So if that's correct, can the vertical clamp then be an extension of sorts to the fixed (tightened) board carrier? Ie, the vertical clamp simply has a travel of 1/4". (My apologies if I'm misinterpreting the operation of the sled carrier...)

bergerud
01-22-2016, 06:33 PM
I guess I thought you were looking for a way to drop the board just enough to slide it out while the rollers are still on the sled frame. So, if the board is 1/8" proud of the sled frame, then all that's required is to drop the board ~1/4" then, correct? So if that's correct, can the vertical clamp then be an extension of sorts to the fixed (tightened) board carrier? Ie, the vertical clamp simply has a travel of 1/4". (My apologies if I'm misinterpreting the operation of the sled carrier...)

Actually, it is sort of reversed. I only need to hold the board up for the measuring process and then I let it drop. The dropped position is just a little below the carrier sides so the board can slide in and out without lifting the head. Even though the required behavior is simple, there are many constraints on the design. It has to handle full head force in either position so it does not get broken by mistake. It has to be thin in the z direction so it does not limit the thickness of boards which can be held in the carrier. It has to move up and down for the different thickness of boards. It has to be easily made and/or be made by the machine.

It is a good problem. I think one has to build prototypes and test them to really get into it. I have a large scrap pile of ideas I thought would work!

Rocketman
01-23-2016, 09:54 AM
It's a shame we have to devise such extreme measures just to make a capable machine more diverse. If only the software developers would add another option to allow us an "advanced user" option to bypass board measurement and another to jog to touch off points to set x,y and z points like every other mass produced cnc in the world. This change would be so simple to implement in software. I'm putting in my request here for a much needed update.

Brad

hrlevill
01-24-2016, 02:16 PM
Just want to.THANK DAN for getting me all squared away with the UBC!!!! It sure will.save a lot of WOOD

normrichards
01-26-2016, 11:41 AM
It's a shame we have to devise such extreme measures just to make a capable machine more diverse. If only the software developers would add another option to allow us an "advanced user" option to bypass board measurement and another to jog to touch off points to set x,y and z points like every other mass produced cnc in the world. This change would be so simple to implement in software. I'm putting in my request here for a much needed update.

Brad

The carvewright seems to be designed for beginners so it will walk you through everything. I do think that more advanced users could benefit from allowing you to turn off the beginner mode and have more control unfortunately if LHR does do this they will undoubtedly charge $200, or more if you still have basic designer, to allow the use of any improvements.

hrlevill
01-26-2016, 04:58 PM
There's Been a lot of discussion on the web at different times about cribbage boards design etc. I have made many many of them.as gifts over the years by hand and with the CW and the design I find that works best is this peg holes should be 1/2 deep always track.depth should be 0'063 at THAT depth you have room to.sand the board with out losing the track bit used for tracks 60 degree also used for small.letters and numbers for larage letters 3/4 or so.90 degree bit board size can carry alot depending on number of players a good size for 2 play is 16 by 5 1/2 that's about it

aokweld101
02-05-2016, 10:10 AM
Dan, I have my machine running again..finally... I have a lot of my projects that I need to do and one is your UCB, I have all the hardware and a 1/2 board to do your UCB project, the question that I'm not getting is where the touch hole goes, does it go to the center?

bergerud
02-05-2016, 10:23 AM
... the question that I'm not getting is where the touch hole goes, does it go to the center?

I am not sure what you are asking. The touch holes go down into the tops of the right sides above where the slots are in the sides. If the sides were 5/8" thick, the holes would be centered in the 5/8". With the 1/2" sides, the center of the hole has to be 5/16" from the inside edge (where the edge of the board will be).

aokweld101
02-05-2016, 11:22 AM
this is a piture of what was posted.

bergerud
02-05-2016, 01:37 PM
That was an early mpc in case someone wanted to get the CW to cut the hole. I decided after that that it was easier and safer to just drill a hole with a drill press or hand drill. (It would really be a shame to wreck the project cutting the last hole!)

aokweld101
02-05-2016, 02:06 PM
Dan, where in the board do you drill that hole is there a specific spot, like center of the board? center of width of the board? that is what I'm asking..

bergerud
02-05-2016, 02:14 PM
The touch holes go down into the tops of the right sides above where the slots are in the sides. If the sides were 5/8" thick, the holes would be centered in the 5/8". With the 1/2" sides, the center of the hole has to be 5/16" from the inside edge (where the edge of the board will be).

Did this not answer the question? See the holes in the ACB in the picture. The same as those.

aokweld101
02-05-2016, 02:17 PM
Yes, Dan that did answer it thank you... :oops:

aokweld101
02-25-2016, 10:02 AM
I have gotten a pm about the UCB, I have not done this project yet. I have a lot on my bucket list on things to do... The question that I was asked, was on doing the 24" UCB where do the touch blocks go? I thought this was a question Dan needs to answer, I would hate it if I gotten it wrong.... lol

bergerud
02-25-2016, 10:36 AM
The touch blocks go either in the first or second set of slots with the first or second touch hole. They can be moved back and forth depending on where you want to touch on the board. The lower block goes on the keypad side and the higher one on the sliding plate side.

The Haole Carver
04-12-2016, 08:42 PM
Ok bought the UCB design quite a while ago but hadn't built it, when i went to make it I was reading the Material List and it calls for MDF, I live in Hawaii and figured it would be better to make it out of red oak due to moisture issues. I also happen to have a bunch of Poplar around and was wondering if that would work just as well? Also, was wondering if the UCB can be used with the 2" deep carving from the deep bits? I like to build wa'a (canoes) and need to put in a 3.5" deep blank that is carved from both sides and need the UCB to handle jobs like that, if it isn't setup for it, couldn't I simply make the rails taller to accommodate the additional inch or so? What are your thoughts? One more question, what are all the holes along the top of the pattern for??? mahalo!

The Haole Carver
04-16-2016, 08:45 PM
I made a long detailed post that hasn't shown up in days, thought i would try again. Can this carrier handle thicker blanks, for example a 3.5" deep blank? Seems if the board can only be 1/8" above the UCB then I would be limited to just above an inch or so in depth? In a previous post you mentioned the limit of 1" for carving so you didn't see this as an issue, however, most of my carving is 2 sided 2" deep carves thus using much deeper blanks than perhaps most use. I was thinking about this before i bought some red oak to build it from and thought "well perhaps I could make the side rails 4.5" high to accommodate my deeper blanks, figure i would also make the slot cuts deeper to accommodate the taller frame. thoughts?

rickroy
06-01-2016, 11:07 AM
Greetings all. Today, I am throwing out all of the custom made sleds that have accumulated since getting my first CarveWright in 2012. They aren't needed. The Universal Carrier takes care of all of my needs. About a year ago, I built both the 24" & 36" and even built one for a friend. I can't speak to the questions about carving depth asked recently as all of my projects have a maximum depth of 1/2" but I can tell you that they are a dream to use. Like most of you, I have customized mine a wee bit for my own operation. I don't not use the touch blocks preferring to enter the depth of the project myself on the keypad. Also, even with the clamping system, there is some wiggle room so I use the holes on the side to screw my piece in place ... and then I tape it to insure that when reading the width, the CW includes the UC. Since I have my project centered on the board, including the UC in the width measurement matters not. I would encourage all wood carvers using a CW to purchase the pattern and build the UC. And then get rid of all of your space-absorbing sleds that are dedicated to a single project ... you just don't need them anymore.

mikemi
06-01-2016, 07:13 PM
Greetings all. Today, I am throwing out all of the custom made sleds that have accumulated since getting my first CarveWright in 2012. They aren't needed. The Universal Carrier takes care of all of my needs. About a year ago, I built both the 24" & 36" and even built one for a friend. I can't speak to the questions about carving depth asked recently as all of my projects have a maximum depth of 1/2" but I can tell you that they are a dream to use. Like most of you, I have customized mine a wee bit for my own operation. I don't not use the touch blocks preferring to enter the depth of the project myself on the keypad. Also, even with the clamping system, there is some wiggle room so I use the holes on the side to screw my piece in place ... and then I tape it to insure that when reading the width, the CW includes the UC. Since I have my project centered on the board, including the UC in the width measurement matters not. I would encourage all wood carvers using a CW to purchase the pattern and build the UC. And then get rid of all of your space-absorbing sleds that are dedicated to a single project ... you just don't need them anymore.

I agree 100%. The UC has also saved me a great deal of aggravation.

Mike

sunmiztres
06-01-2016, 09:06 PM
I agree 100%. The UC has also saved me a great deal of aggravation.

Mike
I 2nd that. I just love the UC.

DonCP
08-23-2016, 12:08 PM
I have used the UCB since it first came out. Love it.
I now am going to ask a question that I think I know the answer but would like opinions.
Can I do a double side carve or modify the original sled to do it, or make the revised version?
Never Glued the front blocks in place so I have cut them the same as the back.

Thanks

bergerud
08-23-2016, 12:46 PM
See the post: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=249253#post249253

Also see: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27235-Experimental-Board-Carrier&p=247053#post247053

The extra side clamp system is required.

DonCP
08-23-2016, 04:21 PM
Thank you.

Mark Dubya
10-10-2016, 06:57 PM
I'm having a problem with my UCB. I get noticeable snipe occurring about 2-1/4" from either end of the board (if there is a carved region in that area). It looks exactly like snipe from a planer. I have not had this occur while using the old 7" extra wood and tape method. My UCB is the 24" model and I assembled it per the instructions. I adjusted my outfeed rollers to just barely touch/kiss the bottom of the UCB runners. (Also, the snipe will occur on a short board where the outfeed rollers do not come into play.) I have always made sure to adjust the board .125" above the UCB rails, and always clamp the head down before loading the first bit. I am using a C model machine. I haven't completed many carvings using the UCB yet- so I do not have a lot of data on this snipe. I love the convenience of the UCB- but the snipe occurs every carving and so is becoming a big waste of wood and time.

I searched this thread and didn't find anything about snipe with the UCB. Anyone experience this or know what is going on here? Thanks for the help!

bergerud
10-10-2016, 07:17 PM
I have not had this problem but some others have. I did make some shims which seem to be the solution. See the post:

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?27444-The-Universal-Carrier-Base&p=248552#post248552

DianMayfield
10-10-2016, 07:20 PM
I purchased it, but haven't assembled it yet. But I would think that if the board is .125 above the rails, as the compression rollers "fell" off your board, it would cause a change in carving height (your snipe?)

Mark Dubya
10-10-2016, 08:26 PM
I see now that is exactly my problem. The shims are a wonderful fix- thank you!

bergerud
10-11-2016, 11:29 AM
I wonder why a few people have this problem. Could it be that your head pressure is too large?

OldChipMaker
12-14-2016, 08:18 AM
Recently, I perused the pdf for the "Universal Carrier Base" and was sufficiently impressed to rush and download the project file. Before starting to build the UCB, I felt that I needed a better understanding of the build procedure and using the UCB.
In general I was not too confused by the build, but got hung up by "Step 3 - Measuring the Board" in the project instructions. Specifically, in the first sentence, it states that the sliding plate should be "between the Carrier sides." Isn't the position of the sliding plate taken in account by the operating program?

bergerud
12-14-2016, 08:44 AM
The program has no idea where the sliding plate is. The sliding plate is so far down below that the bit can never find it. I say to put the sliding plate up against the inside of the left side of the carrier because I think that is the best place for it. In that position, the sliding plate will keep the carrier against the squaring plate even if the carrier sides are not parallel.

gbrown4
12-24-2016, 12:31 PM
Just built the UCB but I am having problems measuring the actual project board. going through the steps...
1. Load board in middle of sled with 1/8" above carrier
2. Place carrier in machine with sliding plate on the inside of the leg of the key board side rail and black squares are under the y axis rail.
3. Lower the head down to just touch carrier.
4. Select project and chose not to stay under rollers.
5. Lower the head until it changes to "enter"
6. Machine will measure width of board but then will measure the carrier not the board.
This is my problem. Can someone clearify what I am doing incorrectly?

bergerud
12-24-2016, 12:37 PM
I would think that the black sections of the carrier are not exactly under the board sensor. The board sensor is only 1.5" behind the bit and right under the y carriage. Maybe you have to move the carrier a little forward.

gbrown4
12-24-2016, 01:30 PM
I lined up the sensor on the black squares and it still tries to measure the carrier. I switch machines (I have two) and the other did it also. Any more suggestions??

bergerud
12-24-2016, 01:40 PM
Maybe the black is not black enough. (It has to black to IR.) To experiment, try two pieces of black electrical tape.

gbrown4
12-24-2016, 01:47 PM
Just to clarify it will measure the width but not the length. I will try the black tape.

bergerud
12-24-2016, 01:58 PM
Sorry, I thought you were taking about measuring the width of the board. Forget the tape. (The length of the carrier cannot be measured as it has no ends.)

If the machine is not finding the ends of the board, it probably has to do with the roller switches. Make sure the 1/8" high board is under both rollers when you do the initially lower the head. You should hear both roller switches switch at about the same time. The idea is that they are set "hair triggered" so they unswitch when the roller drops the 1/8" from the board to the carrier.

gbrown4
12-24-2016, 10:09 PM
Can you paint the carrier black? I finally got it to work. At first I was not under both rollers. Another problem was at the last step it would not allow me to jog to the black square. It listed a set of coordinates to jog too and would not allow me to override.

bergerud
12-24-2016, 10:39 PM
Sure you can paint the carrier black. If the board is short, you have to place the board on the carrier so that a touch hole is near by. One cannot jog out of the area where the machine determines the pattern to be.

keninar
01-03-2017, 04:01 PM
After cleaning out my shop during the holidays.......and discovering how many sleds I've built over the years ----- I'm ready to go with the Universal Carrier.

Have read the entire string of posts as well as digesting the instructions. Seems good to go - and Thanks for all your Efforts!

One question before I begin gathering materials: Can I use 3/4" material instead of the 1/2"? Caught Mr. Nelson's query on using 5/8" material, but thought I ask if 3/4 was a possibility.

1/2" MDF not readily available around here.

Thanks in advance, and again, Great Project!!

keninar

bergerud
01-03-2017, 04:11 PM
I cannot remember any reason why you cannot use 3/4". I think others have.

keninar
01-03-2017, 04:37 PM
Thanks! Appreciate all your work - and patience!!

bergerud
01-03-2017, 04:45 PM
The only thing that I think could be a problem is the bit bob on the squaring plate side. You might have to cut a small slot for the bit to miss the carrier.

Stormin
01-25-2017, 06:45 PM
Tried carving the UCB and this happened twice.

Any ideas?

bergerud
01-25-2017, 06:57 PM
No idea. The mpc does not have cuts like that. Is the machine trying to cut the board to length??

luckettg
01-25-2017, 11:07 PM
Do you sell these already made?

bergerud
01-26-2017, 01:06 AM
Do you sell these already made?

No, you have to make it yourself. The machine will cut out all the wooden parts. You do have to also buy some hardware.

luckettg
01-26-2017, 07:15 AM
I have had this happen, multiple times since I got my CW in 2007. It did it again just last week. I am not sure what is causing it either. After destroying the lumber blank, then replacing it, everything starts working fine. I suspect something with the wood, but I have seen this do it along with the Z axis not functioning correctly either. My bet is on some sort of CW software/hardware glitch. I have flipped the damaged blank over to carve on its opposite side, and it works fine. The machine gives no error messages when it fails like this. As you can see on yours, the Y axis seems to be working fine. Running the blank back and forth on the X axis shows no problems either.


Tried carving the UCB and this happened twice.

Any ideas?

ekimnamyr
02-04-2017, 02:32 PM
I am making the 24" ucb at the point of gluing the rod bosses on it says to attach square ones to rear and rect. ones to front which is front and back only difference I see is hole location for the rods. but which is which?? front and back?

bergerud
02-04-2017, 03:53 PM
Look closely at the sides and note that the front end is the longer end. (The front is longer so the Carrier front stays under the roller even when measuring the board.)

In the Designer mpc, the fronts are on the left.

ekimnamyr
02-04-2017, 03:56 PM
Got it Berg sorry should have caught that myself.. Sorry thanks..

solitaryhunter
02-11-2017, 01:00 PM
Would anyone be interested in making and selling one that has been tested? i would love one but for multiple reasons i know trying to make one will be difficult for me, just curious no hard feelings if no if the popular response.

SteveNelson46
02-11-2017, 01:05 PM
Would anyone be interested in making and selling one that has been tested? i would love one but for multiple reasons i know trying to make one will be difficult for me, just curious no hard feelings if no if the popular response.

They are really not that difficult to make. Dan did a good job explaining how in the instructions and making your own will give you a tremendous advantage on how it works.

luckettg
04-16-2017, 09:22 PM
I was hoping to discover why the blackened areas were needed. This explains why they are needed. Thank you. :)


You can just measure the board. You have to measure the width where the sides are black and the board has to stick up 1/8" above the sides. Are you following the procedure in the instructions?

Donnyboy
05-08-2017, 11:23 AM
I just purchased the UCB and when I ran it through the machine I found there were no tabs and the small parts flew around the machine. Also the of the holes for these small parts weren't located correctly. What is the problem?

mtylerfl
05-08-2017, 11:50 AM
Please upload your mpc if it doesn't have any copyright unprotected patterns on it. It sounds like you did not use the Cut Path Tool for your cutouts. If you attempted a manual depth cut on your own instead, that would be one reason why tabs were missing. There could be other setting or layout issues that caused your problems as well. Without seeing your actual mpc file, it's likely to be a lot of guessing and back-and-forth messaging to nail down what the actual cause(s) were.

bergerud
05-08-2017, 01:26 PM
I just purchased the UCB and when I ran it through the machine I found there were no tabs and the small parts flew around the machine. Also the of the holes for these small parts weren't located correctly. What is the problem?

Are you talking about the UCB project itself or a project you used the UCB to hold?

If it is the UCB project itself, the tabs cutting out would have to do with board thickness problems. Make sure the board thickness in Designer matches the thickness of board you use. It could also be that your machine needs a thickness calibration.

Holes not being drilled in the right place could be a tracking issue.

A picture of the problem might help.

mtylerfl
05-08-2017, 01:48 PM
It didn't occur to me it might be the actual UCB project the OP was referring to! Re-reading the post, I'm thinking it is. Well, if so, we know there is nothing wrong with the mpc's themselves (as long as they were not altered in any way!).

Board thickness issue could indeed indeed account for missing tabs. Slipping bit could cause the tabs to be cut away, as well. Also, if Scaling was allowed when the project was run, that would cause drill holes to be made in the wrong locations.

Underdog
10-23-2017, 08:29 PM
Hope this hasn't been asked before... but I read through the last five or six pages of this thread and didn't see an answer.
I finally finished my 24" UBC this evening, and was kinda wondering a few things...
The touch holes:
What are these for exactly? Does the bit actually touch down through them? What does it "touch"? The 1/4" bolt?
The touch blocks:
The instructions say to put the lower one on the keypad side, and the higher one on the sliding plate side.
Which is the lower one? The one with the dowel pin that is lower? Or the one that slides down lower because the pin is higher?
The "front" end of the carrier:
The longer end is the front end, I get that. But which way does it go into the machine? I'm assuming that the touch holes and wingnuts are on the right as you face the machine, and the "front" of the UCB is at the front of the machine. Is this correct?

If there's a way to misunderstand this, I'm gonna find it....

bergerud
10-23-2017, 09:41 PM
Hope this hasn't been asked before... but I read through the last five or six pages of this thread and didn't see an answer.
I finally finished my 24" UBC this evening, and was kinda wondering a few things...
The touch holes:
What are these for exactly? Does the bit actually touch down through them? What does it "touch"? The 1/4" bolt?
The touch blocks:
The instructions say to put the lower one on the keypad side, and the higher one on the sliding plate side.
Which is the lower one? The one with the dowel pin that is lower? Or the one that slides down lower because the pin is higher?
The "front" end of the carrier:
The longer end is the front end, I get that. But which way does it go into the machine? I'm assuming that the touch holes and wingnuts are on the right as you face the machine, and the "front" of the UCB is at the front of the machine. Is this correct?

If there's a way to misunderstand this, I'm gonna find it....

The touch hole is for the bit to drop into. This is to fool the machine into thinking the bit is bobbing beside the board. The bit will not actually touch anything in the hole. After the bob into the hole, the bit will shift to the right and touch the touch block. The touch block acts as the touch on the sliding plate.

The higher and lower refers to the height of the top of the block. (The touch at the brass roller is lower than the touch at the sliding plate.)

You have the front of the carrier figured right.

PacificBW
10-23-2017, 10:14 PM
This is fantastic. So, for the time limited fools who would pay for a completed Carrier Base, what is your price good sir?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Underdog
10-24-2017, 08:59 AM
The touch hole is for the bit to drop into. This is to fool the machine into thinking the bit is bobbing beside the board. The bit will not actually touch anything in the hole. After the bob into the hole, the bit will shift to the right and touch the touch block. The touch block acts as the touch on the sliding plate.

Oh. Ok. That makes a lot more sense now. The bit finds the right/left edges of the board, and the optical sensors finds the start/end of the board, right?


The higher and lower refers to the height of the top of the block. (The touch at the brass roller is lower than the touch at the sliding plate.)

Aren't the holes in the blocks at the same place, while the pins are in different places? Or maybe I've put my pins in the wrong holes.... Do the pins go in the bottom hole (block is taper down)?


You have the front of the carrier figured right.
At least I had ONE thing figured out...

bergerud
10-24-2017, 10:15 AM
The optical sensor finds the edges of the board as well as the ends of the board. (That is why the carrier has the black sections.)

The tapered parts of the blocks go down. The pins are below the bolt holes. (One can go without using the blocks at all. The machine will just bob three times trying to touch the right block (sliding plate) and then ask for the board thickness.)

Underdog
10-24-2017, 10:43 AM
So if the optical sensors are finding all the edges of the board, then why does the bit do the "bob" thing?

Oh. It's finding the board thickness? I suppose it knows where the zero point is already? I haven't watched my machine very much, and it's been a while anyway...

bergerud
10-24-2017, 11:54 AM
Yes, it bobs as part of the thickness determination. The bob at the brass roller is to get an idea as to the depth to expect for the sliding plate when it bobs for it. The difference between the touch on the board and the touch on the sliding plate determines the thickness.

Underdog
10-24-2017, 02:53 PM
Thanks Berg! Much appreciated. Hopefully I'll cut something out tonight.

Nick68
10-31-2017, 07:06 AM
The machine will just bob three times trying to touch the right block (sliding plate) and then ask for the board thickness.)

Hi B. long time user(09). bought new c machine in july. Made a sled so as to use .500 stock. no problem. Made a sled for .750 stock. Problem is, the three bobs generate the following...Retry or Cancel. any thoughts before trying your universal sled.

DickB
10-31-2017, 07:33 AM
Tell us more about the dimensions of your sled - rail width, base thickness, etc. Also, what is the entire message that is being displayed?

bergerud
10-31-2017, 09:57 AM
Problem is, the three bobs generate the following...Retry or Cancel. any thoughts before trying your universal sled.

If the machine touches at the brass roller and cannot make the touch at the sliding plate you get the Retry or Cancel. (The sliding plate touch is higher than the brass roller touch and so the programmer figured that the only thing which can be occurring is that the user has not moved the sliding plate up to the board.)

If it cannot not touch at the brass roller, the programmer figures the board or sled is more than 1" thick and asks for the thickness. (Why it bobs three times anyway at the sliding plate is a mystery to me.)

If you are using the UCB, make sure the right block is higher than the left block. (Or just take both blocks off.)

Nick68
11-01-2017, 08:21 AM
Base = 13.75y, 19.0x, .75z
Rails = 1.25y, 19.0x, .75z
Front/back blocks = 9.0y, 4.0x, .75z
Base + rails = 13.75y, 19.0x, 1.5z
Base + F/B blocks = 13.75y, 19.0x, 1.5z
The partial massage is from Bergerud post #240

Bluto
12-28-2017, 09:24 AM
So now that I have this made, the question is how do I do 2 sided carving? several of my patterns have a keyhole on the reverse side for hanging and Im wondering how to accomplish that.
Thanks

Dale
12-28-2017, 10:40 AM
I could be wrong but I do not think you can. I just make the key hole a separate pattern.

DocWheeler
12-28-2017, 11:28 AM
See post 103 on page 11, I don't recall anything further saying that it wasn't possible.