Planning to buy soon but need some help

[wynpotter]

I have a certain project that I'm planning to buy a Cw for. I need some help finding the correct tutorial or help. To simplify imagine I want to use a 1in thick board 12 in by 12 in. Into this board I want to cut away the area around a series of solid circles, leaving them raised. Each circle will be about 1/2 in in diameter and the cut down will be about1/4 in deep.
Since this is so new to me I don't know how to design this project to do a vector cut to accomplish this task. In the real layout the circles may be stars or leaves or other silhouette images, some solid, some with openings like the vein of a leaf.
I think the 1/16 bit I heard of will give the detail but wondered if this needs to be a rough pass then a detail pass using 2 different bits.
Since I have never worked with a cnc machine I could use some help finding the right software tutorials.
Thanks for any help
Wyndham

[zan29]

Is there a image you could post so we could have a better idea of what you're trying to accomplish?

[bergerud]

This sounds like a very interesting project. I do not think there are any tutorials on doing such a thing with vector cuts. Does it have to be vector cuts? A raster carving would not be so hard.

Yes, please post a picture of what you are thinking and I will give it a go.

[Mike58]

I have a certain project that I'm planning to buy a Cw for. I need some help finding the correct tutorial or help. To simplify imagine I want to use a 1in thick board 12 in by 12 in. Into this board I want to cut away the area around a series of solid circles, leaving them raised. Each circle will be about 1/2 in in diameter and the cut down will be about1/4 in deep.
Since this is so new to me I don't know how to design this project to do a vector cut to accomplish this task. In the real layout the circles may be stars or leaves or other silhouette images, some solid, some with openings like the vein of a leaf.
I think the 1/16 bit I heard of will give the detail but wondered if this needs to be a rough pass then a detail pass using 2 different bits.
Since I have never worked with a cnc machine I could use some help finding the right software tutorials.
Thanks for any help
Wyndham

From what I have been seeing on a project that I am working on, I don't think you will want to try to vector cut this. I have cut a round stepped pocket for a light socket and a rectangular slot out of MDF (cheap for prototyping) and everything will pack full of the carvings. For a slot or small area this wouldn't really become too big an issue, but to do a large area I think you will find the carvings not being removed may create problems. There is a great deal more effort involved in designing such a thing too, because you must create each path for the bit manually rather than create a carving region that you can place other objects in and change the depth of each of them to achieve the desired results.

Frankly, I have spent MORE time trying to save machine carving time by vectoring paths than I will save in machine time I believe at this point unless I get to making many of the items. I have about gave up on the idea even though the vector time was about 1/3 the raster time. Layout is kicking my butt. You cannot control what happens when. The machine doesn't carve objects out in the order you have them in the carving list.

I can layout in Corel Draw exactly how things will be processed by my laser as to the order and direction the vectors are cut. I have done it many times and cut laser time by over 1/2 by eliminating a lot of wasted movement. You cannot do the same with this.

[DickB]

I've done a clock face something like your description but with more material cut away. I used a combination of the 1/16" carving bit to carve out the recessed areas, and the 1/8" cutting bit to clean up the sides of the circles. The reason for the cleanup is that the carving bit is tapered and I wanted the circles to have straight not slanted sides. I have used this teqnique often.

75530

Layout of your project would not be hard. Have you played with a trial version of the software? If you do, I could post a file for you to take a look at.

Or, come to the Conference! I am one of the presenters, and the design and machining of this clock including it's face is part of my presentation.

[Mike58]

I've done a clock face something like your description but with more material cut away. I used a combination of the 1/16" carving bit to carve out the recessed areas, and the 1/8" cutting bit to clean up the sides of the circles. The reason for the cleanup is that the carving bit is tapered and I wanted the circles to have straight not slanted sides. I have used this teqnique often.

75530

Layout of your project would not be hard. Have you played with a trial version of the software? If you do, I could post a file for you to take a look at.

Or, come to the Conference! I am one of the presenters, and the design and machining of this clock including it's face is part of my presentation.

Your approach does make sense for getting straight sides, which was one of the things I needed for the socket for the light bulb base to sit in. I worked that out and I am quite pleased with the 1/8" cutting bit cutting the .5" deep socket I needed. the other areas I was attempting to speed up the process by eliminating the raster time to cut out a rectangle shaped slot. the carving cuts out .5" wide then has to jump to the other side 10" away to do the other side until it gets to the ends that run 5" across the board. The vector path was much faster to do as far as machine time, but laying out stepped paths a problem for me.

To clarify, first prototype was rastered and took over 2 hours. Second was vectored only and took 58 minutes I think. I am doing to pieces back to back if you will and one needs the pocket for the light bulb socket and a wire path out to the edge. Not a problem. Both have a routed edge on 3 sides (basically doing a rectangle with the back of each part turned in to the center then a cut path cuts between them to separate them) and the cut path follows this same vector path. What I mistakenly didn't realize is one side needs the routed edge on the bottom, the other on the top edge. When I worked the path around them bottom as a rectangle it wasn't too hard to step and repeat another pass with the 1/8" bit. But now I need to break the two parts apart in the slot being cut out in them both now, and do one on the front side of the board, and the other on the back side of the board. When I place a line and assign the 1/8" cutting bit to a open vector line, I cannot inset the bit, it will only go down the center of the line. So now I am trying to offset the line to allow for the bit so I get a specific width slot, and it seems something always happening that produces the wrong or unintended results.
In regard to your remarks and rastering then vectoring to get the straight edge I agree, and that will certainly work. I was looking to vector only to cut 1/8" wide x .25" deep in a single pass. The cutting bit removes material much faster than the carving bit (minding a reasonable depth).

Your idea maybe just what he is looking for, which will also allow the carving regions to be placed as I mentioned and not cut out areas that you want proud of the carved area.

[wynpotter]

I'll sketch out something tonight and post it. It was my thought that a vector path would be cleaner but creating the path maybe a maze I'm not equip to deal with.
thanks for the info. Wyndham

[DickB]

the other areas I was attempting to speed up the process by eliminating the raster time to cut out a rectangle shaped slot. the carving cuts out .5" wide then has to jump to the other side 10" away to do the other side until it gets to the ends that run 5" across the board.I wonder about splitting the project up into two or more mpcs to avoid the jump. If the board were not removed between projects, it should be accurate, and I would think it would machine considerably faster.

[wynpotter]

75539

Here's an example of a possible project. If I were to make a wooden stamp where the image is the face of the wood block and area around the image is cut away 1/4 in to 1/2 deep. Would a raster or vector be the better way to cut. Would it make any sense to do a vector cut around an out line of the image with a 1/16 in tool then use a raster to cut the major work. As I say, I'm just starting to understand cnc. Just dl'd a trial version software, I'll start learning it tomorrow night.
Thanks for the help, I need it :)
Wyndham

[Mike58]

you should raster engrave and add a small possibly medium draft to the carve region. That will taper the sides some and make it fatter deeper. That is how stamps are done. I don't think vector carving will give a good result here.

[fwharris]

If your going to make a stamp I would just do a raster carve with a carve region around the stork to carve out the background to make the stork stand proud.

[wynpotter]

Thanks for the detailed info,
If each stamp were sized to fit on a 2inx2inx.25in depth area and it was laid out on a 12inx12inx1in board, what bit should be used and what cutting rate would you suggest. After the carving I would cut these out on a table saw to make the final pieces.I know bigger machines would be better for larger scale production, but starting small to see if it's a good idea.
Any other thought are gladly welcomed.
Wyndham

[fwharris]

For this stork to be a good stamp at the size you are saying, you would need to use the 1/32" ball nose (carving bit) set at best bit optimization and uploaded with optimal carve quality to get good detail.

[wynpotter]

Thanks, got some learning to do.
Wyndham

[Mike58]

you also need to add "draft" (brown upside down looking T to the right of "feather" on the toolbars) so there is some "meat" below the edge that will be the stamp surface. If it is just carved out it will be very thin and fragile. Stamps are made the same way for durability too. The top surface (as looked at) will be the smallest with everything tapering as it goes down to the base of the stamp.

[lynnfrwd]

Don't forget, if you are making a stamp that it will be reversed when used. So text should be backwards.

[wynpotter]

Yes I can see where it's easy to make a mistake on both flipping the image and how delicate a small cut can be.
This brings me to another question about cutting time.
Is there a method where one board is tapped either with double sided tape or other method where the image is vector cut (cutline) through the first board(1/2 in thich or what ever is correct thickness) down to the tape layer where the "Rockart image" stays in-place as it is cut out, then after the cut out can be lifted from the backing board and mounted onto a different backing block. This would cut down the cut time. Or can the board be turned over ,centered and the base cut leaving tabs to hold the stamp in-place until cut out by hand
If one uses a 1/32 bit it would seem there would have to be multiple passes to get the correct depth.
I realize these are scattered thoughts but just brainstorming to get a handle on this.
Thanks Wyndham

[mtylerfl]

Hi Wyndham,

Maybe I'm not following your reasoning or question, but if I were making stamp blocks, I would just use one piece of 3/4" material, carve around your silhouette down to the required depth (I don't think you need to go very deep for a stamp...maybe between .125" to .25" is all...and maybe not even anywhere near THAT deep, depending if you'll be inking on a stamp pad or rolling ink on manually), then cut out the entire stamp block either using the CW Cut Path feature or if the stamps are plain squares or rectangles, cut them free using my table saw. Am I missing something? If so, holler!

Here's a link to a Blog Joe L. wrote about how he created stamps for stamping T-shirts and cards:
http://www.carvewright.com/carving-t-shirts-and-christmas-cards/

(some of the image links are broken...CW is changing internet services and still in the process of getting the new website design worked out, etc.)

[wynpotter]

I work in clay and the stamps I use need to be about twice as deep as an inking stamp. I sometimes get caught up in details that turn out to be irrelevant. This usually occurs when I'm working out the details on a new venture.
That being said, i go back to a previous thread where a 1/32 ball nose bit was recommended. Am I wrong in thinking that it would take 4 passes to get to 1/4 deep and 32x4(passes) per 1in x 1 in sq times 4 sq in(2inx2in). I maybe missing a great deal since I have never tried cnc. I'm just in the dark and your solution may be the better way, I sometimes get caught up in numbers that in the end don't really matter.
Thanks for the info & patience
Wyndham

[bergerud]

If you post a picture of an example stamp, it would go a long way. We may even be able to make one for you to see.

[Wood Art 1]

In this group of talent and volunteers, we can probably find someone that could carve one of those for you in about 30 minutes (or less) and deliver it to your doorstep. Of course not knowing where you are it might take a little longer. You would find out exactly what is needed to create this project and not have the newbie experience factor (do it over 6 times to figure it out). A quick mpc, carve, and a finished picture may be enough to convince wynpotter that a CW is his answer.

[mtylerfl]

I work in clay and the stamps I use need to be about twice as deep as an inking stamp. I sometimes get caught up in details that turn out to be irrelevant. This usually occurs when I'm working out the details on a new venture.
That being said, i go back to a previous thread where a 1/32 ball nose bit was recommended. Am I wrong in thinking that it would take 4 passes to get to 1/4 deep and 32x4(passes) per 1in x 1 in sq times 4 sq in(2inx2in). I maybe missing a great deal since I have never tried cnc. I'm just in the dark and your solution may be the better way, I sometimes get caught up in numbers that in the end don't really matter.
Thanks for the info & patience
Wyndham

Hi Wyndham,

When you use a Carving Bit, there are no settings for doing multiple passes on the CarveWright machine. This is not particularly important for what you will be doing though. If you setup a layout to carve a silhouette inside a recessed Carve Region, both the 1/32" Carving Bit and the 1/16" Carving Bit will perform the raster carving at full depth, no problem.

If your layout will include the use of a Cutting Bit, then you can set that bit to perform the cuts in multiple passes. For all the CW Monthly Projects that use a Cutting Bit, I set the multiple passes at 0.3" per pass. This is a safe and practical setting for most materials, but some people "get nervous" and set the passes shallower. That's fine and gets the job done too (just takes longer is all).

[Mike58]

I work in clay and the stamps I use need to be about twice as deep as an inking stamp. I sometimes get caught up in details that turn out to be irrelevant. This usually occurs when I'm working out the details on a new venture.
That being said, i go back to a previous thread where a 1/32 ball nose bit was recommended. Am I wrong in thinking that it would take 4 passes to get to 1/4 deep and 32x4(passes) per 1in x 1 in sq times 4 sq in(2inx2in). I maybe missing a great deal since I have never tried cnc. I'm just in the dark and your solution may be the better way, I sometimes get caught up in numbers that in the end don't really matter.
Thanks for the info & patience
Wyndham

The 1/32" referrers to the tip diameter of the bit. The bit as a whole is smaller in diameter and tapered down to the 1/32" tip. You don't have to worry about figuring out all those details if you create the carving region in the Designer software it will take care of all of those details for you. But think of raster carving as an ink jet printer when it prints. The machine will run the bit back and forth on the width of the board (Y axes) and it will carve everything out across that pass at one time. You will see the bit bob up and down according to the depth required as it moves back and forth. So the machine processes that line then moves the board (x axes) and carves another pass across the board. When the carving is done everything across the region (all of them across the width of the project) will have carved out.
For small areas like you are asking about, you will likely need the smaller carving bit to retain the detail you want.

[wynpotter]

In this group of talent and volunteers, we can probably find someone that could carve one of those for you in about 30 minutes (or less) and deliver it to your doorstep. Of course not knowing where you are it might take a little longer. You would find out exactly what is needed to create this project and not have the newbie experience factor (do it over 6 times to figure it out). A quick mpc, carve, and a finished picture may be enough to convince wynpotter that a CW is his answer.

Jerry I'm in Seagrove NC about 40 south from Greensboro NC and about 10 miles from Asheboro, NC . We are a small town of about 120 potters, of which I am one.
If someone nearby has a machine I would be glad to work out something for their time and effort. I would love to see the machine in action as this would answer a lot of questions that are difficult to express in these post.

Another thing that came to mind after seeing the intro video is the prep of the wood. Do most folks have a planer, something Home Depot or Lowes might have to prep the wood for cutting, just wondering
Thanks again Wyndham

[CNC Carver]

Here is some NC users.
http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?22565-North-Carolina&highlight=carolina
Jeff

[Wood Art 1]

Wyndham, As you can see Jeff posted some NC users. NC was not on my list of places to go today, but if you need help, I can be reached at liftit3@yahoo.com.
I use rough sawn material and plane my own wood. If you need hardwood, a local saw mill will probably have planed material in stock. If you can work in pine, the local lumberyard will have what you need. Wish I was closer, we would do this project today.

[wynpotter]

Thanks Jerry, after seeing several video's and the help of all these fine folks, I'm starting to see what's what. As I mentioned in another post, I tend to over think new equipment and how it works. I need to play around with the demo a bit.Thanks for everyone's help
Wyndham