Crank Handle Problems - Is there an Epidemic going around?

[SharonB]

I think there is a rash of Crank Handle Problems going around. Is it the time of year or what.

At the moment the crank starts clicking almost inches from the top and almost impossible to get it to the bottom. Everything is well greased/oiled/cleaned. Took the bottom off and the rod moves back and forth like it should, those lower gears are well greased and I can move the head up and down and don't see anything binding (machine laying on it's back). This problem has been going on for a month or so but just kept getting worse until now it doesn't want to work at all.

I guess the next question is in the removal of the keyboard panel. Do I have to take the whole side off or does the top black panel lift off enough to inspect the crank mechanism. Also, in looking at the Parts List (page 9 of the parts list it shows a washer (#152) on the outside of the spring. On my C Machine (the one giving me trouble) that washer is on the back side of the spring and inside the metal panel.... is this a change since the parts list I have was printed (12/19)07)?

There are probably more questions but this is all I can think of at the moment. Back to the shop to do more exploring. Will check back soon. Sharon

[aokweld101]

Since you have the clutch handle off did you use compressed air to blow it out.

[SteveNelson46]

Sharon,

The same thing happened to me awhile back. In my case, the crank torque plate was broken. Probably as a result of tightening the screw when the handle wasn't in the correct position. To get to it you have to remove the side panel (Keyboard side) and disassemble the cranking mechanism. The crank torque plate looks like a small, thick washer with 2 bevels on one side. Part # 147 in the Assembly Guide and Parts List

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Maintenence/CW_parts_list_manual.pdf

[SharonB]

That's what I was afraid you were going to say....completely remove the keyboard side. Was hoping you could get to the mechanism without taking it completely apart. Guess it is a learning moment. Thanks though.

[aokweld101]

When taking off the key board side you do'nt have to take it completly apart lift up slightly on the panel so you can get over the rod and lean it back a little and you can move the ribbon out from its holder just be careful and when doing so, put the ribbon back in its holder carefully. it allows you room to clean the gear up.

[SteveNelson46]

As Henry said, you can get enough slack in the ribbon cables to disassemble the crank mechanism but, it is really easy to break or tear one of the cables (ask me how I know this). It is best to just unplug the 2 cables.

[SharonB]

Ok. Taking the side panel off was a lot easier than I figured. Even the cable came out easy. NOW, how in the heck do you get the mechanism out so you can see what is wrong? I haven't been able to find anything about removing it from it's location.... maybe a punch and a large sledge hammer? Any help pointing me in the right direction would be a great help.

ps: The only thing I find is the parts list and that does not help in the process of removal... especially for a person not very mechanical.
pss: Sounds like LHR needs a video on the process of removal, inspection and flaws to look for regarding the crank handle inside unit.

[SteveNelson46]

Turn the side panel over so the crank handle is facing up. Remove the screw, washer, and spring. Look closely at the end of the shaft and you will see that it has two flat sides. Use a small crescent wrench to unscrew it.

By the way, don't lose the two spacer washers at the top of each guidepost when you remove the end panel.

[fwharris]

Ok. Taking the side panel off was a lot easier than I figured. Even the cable came out easy. NOW, how in the heck do you get the mechanism out so you can see what is wrong? I haven't been able to find anything about removing it from it's location.... maybe a punch and a large sledge hammer? Any help pointing me in the right direction would be a great help.

ps: The only thing I find is the parts list and that does not help in the process of removal... especially for a person not very mechanical.
pss: Sounds like LHR needs a video on the process of removal, inspection and flaws to look for regarding the crank handle inside unit.

This is the only thing close to getting to the crank http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Service_instructions/CarveWright_service_replace_side_panel-control_panel.pdf

[SharonB]

Thanks Steve.... I think the crescent wrench will work a little better than the punch and sledge hammer. :p
Floyd... I have that PDF file. That is how I got to where I am at the moment. But it sure doesn't give a clue on how to remove the different parts so you can inspect them.

Will attach the problem again tomorrow. But I might be back on asking more questions. Thanks Sharon

[SharonB]

Good morning.... I have the crank handle assembly apart and everything looks in good condition. There is a little grease on the gears... not much but enough I think the gears should have worked ok.

I have the two small washer that came off the top of the two posts. Do I add one or both and where do they go? The only place I can find they would attach is at the end of the lever shaft (part #150) and next to the washer (Part # 149). If this is where they go do you add them ahead of part 149 or after?

I'm off to town this morning to buy lubrication to put on the gears after I get them cleaned up. Will check back here once I return. If this is the fix I'll certainly be happy.

[fwharris]

Sharron,

The extra washers go on the crank shaft first and then the spring.

[SteveNelson46]

Sharon,

The two washers that came off the top of the guideposts go right on top of the guidepost just before you put the side panel back on. They are spacers so the gear mechanism will work correctly. They are kind of difficult to hold in place while you try to align the bolts and the side panel. Many people leave them off but, they are important. Also, when replacing the side panel, make sure that pin on the top of the leadscrew goes into the hole on the inside of the side panel. I am currently working on a machine from a local Woodcraft store and the person that worked on it before me didn't get the pin in the hole and tightened the bolts down anyway. It forced the leadscrew down and broke the mounts on the underside of the machine.

By the way, was your crank torque plate okay?

I'm using Dragon Naturally Speaking premium instead of trying to type so pardon any grammatical errors. I try to proofread but some things slip by.

[bergerud]

The two washers that came off the top of the guideposts go right on top of the guidepost just before you put the side panel back on. They are spacers so the gear mechanism will work correctly. They are kind of difficult to hold in place while you try to align the bolts and the side panel. Many people leave them off but, they are important.

Steve, you must have missed the memo. Floyd opened our eyes awhile ago about those washers. They are spares to increase the clutch spring tension. They are conveniently stored on the top of the posts. Who knew!!

I thought, how stupid, the holes in the washers are too big!

[SteveNelson46]

Steve, you must have missed the memo. Floyd opened our eyes awhile ago about those washers. They are spares to increase the clutch spring tension. They are conviently stored on the top of the posts. Who knew!!

I guess I did miss the memo.

[fwharris]

Steve, you must have missed the memo. Floyd opened our eyes awhile ago about those washers. They are spares to increase the clutch spring tension. They are conveniently stored on the top of the posts. Who knew!!

I thought, how stupid, the holes in the washers are too big!

I thought, oh silly me :confused:, that this was added to the head pressure trouble shooting document a while back. I have tried a standard washer but you do have to grind in down to make it fit.

[SharonB]

Ok! Back to the drawing board..... The rings that were on top of the two keyboard side posts are/were split rings with a 0.384 OD and a 0.245 ID. There is no way they will fit over the crank shaft (with is 0.373 OD) just ahead of the spring. Floyd, are you saying the washers should go on the crank shaft (#150 (looking at parts list on page 9 of manual)) just ahead of the permanent washer that's on the crank shaft? If so I don't have anything like that so what part would I order? The only other washer is #152 which is the washer that is used just head of the screw (#156) and the washer (#86). Sorry to take up so much of your time.

[fwharris]

Sharon,

I think we have you off track on what washers you should be finding. It sounds like we are looking at different parts lists. I am using the exploded parts list off of the CW site. The parts list show it as # 152 and goes on the shaft not behind the knob/screw and washer.
It sounds like you are describing the lock washer that goes with the nut for the end panel.

I did find the washer in the parts list... http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=16321&cat=389&page=1

[SharonB]

Here is what I have. And it does look like I'm missing #152. So I'll order a couple of them tomorrow. I don't see how that could have dropped out prior to taking it apart even if it had broken into pieces. I've never found any pieces in the machine and I didn't drop anything when taking it apart. Oh well, as long as it gets back together soon everything will be fine. Thank goodness for my A-machine (knock on wood) that just keeps plugging along.

[bergerud]

May you have two 152's on your A machine posts.

[SharonB]

Bergerud...

Ok. I must be missing something. I just looked at the A-machine and yes there was a washer and a split ring on each of the two posts.

Now, looking at the diagram on page 9 that washer (#152) goes between the spring and the handle.... and there is no way in H that is going to happen. If you put the washer on the outside of the handle the only thing it is going to do is shorten up how far the screw screws into the shaft. Is that what is suppose to happen?

[fwharris]

Sharon,

You are right, your picture does not show any washers for the crank shaft. I edited your picture and the one from me showing where the thin washers go on the shaft.

Just for verification, the washers from the posts we are talking about are between the black end cap bottom and the top of the post. Sometimes they will stick to the grease on the top cap bottom.

The thin washers add force to the spring to put more pressure on the clutch plate. When you tighten up the screw on the crank handle the handle is fully seated to the end of the shaft because you are compressing the spring.

[SharonB]

Floyd... I'll do more looking tomorrow to see if I can find those washers. Anything I've found so far will not fit over that part of the handle. Thank both you and Bergerud for trying to point me in the right direction. Like I said before... there needs to be a lot more documentation on how to preform this procedure and made readily available on the forum.

[fwharris]

Sharon,

I guess we are sort of writing the documentation as we go here! :wink:

If all else fails if you have a fastener supply place near you like Fastenal https://www.fastenal.com/web/locations;jsessionid=S4yQJ3nNhxCdkyFNGKs9BqvT81FbW TmmQLpGc7BYKn2jPbLJ39xs!1594143238!-171702638

they might get you close to what you need.

[SharonB]

Thanks Floyd for your help. Tomorrow is another day and plan to help the grandson carve his project using the A-machine. While he is doing that I'll see what I can do with the C-machine. Let you know how we come out. Sharon

[fwharris]

Have a great day tomorrow!

[t-townwilson]

I've also been having a crank problem that has been discussed on another thread. It was suggested that I too use those washers off the guide posts to put on crank shaft. I added washers to the screw that holds the handle because that is where they seemed to fit. Are you saying that the washers should fit on the crank shaft? Are they really large enough for that location?

[bergerud]

These washers we are talking about have the same outside diameter as the guide posts of the machine. See post 22 washer 152 to see where they fit on the handle. They (if they are there) are sitting on top of the posts themselves. They are under the plastic cover. I think you have to dig a little deeper to find them.

Edit: I put one on a post and took a picture.

[t-townwilson]

OK, those are not the washers I thought I was looking for. I'll look again:p

[SteveNelson46]

I can't believe there's this much confusion over a simple assembly process. Take a close look at the drawing (http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Maintenence/CW_parts_list_manual.pdf page 9). Part number 152 (the same washer that is stored on top of the guideposts) is used on top of the spring of the crank mechanism When assembling the crank mechanism, put the spring over the shaft, put one or more of the washers (that were on top of the guideposts for storage) on top of the spring. Put the crank handle on and press down to compress the spring and turn it until it seats. While holding the crankshaft down put the screw with the lock washer through the crank handle and tighten.

[t-townwilson]

My machine has no washers on top of the post, but there are 3 walkers on crank shaft. Is there a benefit to more washers if I can locate them either locally or through LHR?

[fwharris]

My machine has no washers on top of the post, but there are 3 walkers on crank shaft. Is there a benefit to more washers if I can locate them either locally or through LHR?

Only if you are having head pressure issues.

[SharonB]

I know it is late but wanted to make another comment. There were no washers on my C-machine posts. I did find and removed the two that was on my A-machine. Currently I have the assembly back to the point I can remount it on the machine....which I hope to do tomorrow.

Steve, I think the confusion with the washers was I was expecting them to be under the bolt on the topside of the plastic instead of on the underside. I don't have the manual right here at the moment and I will check tomorrow to see just where it shows the extra washers to be.

But I did have an excellent day helping the grandson, Michael (whom some of you meet at last years convention) carve a project he had designed. While the project carved we explored options he could use to add carvings to his pool table. He is just starting to form an idea of what he wants and I look forward to see what he might come up with.

If any new developments, like a back penny, I'll be back. Sharon

[fwharris]

Sharon,

It sounds like it was a great day with Michael getting a carving done and teaming up on design work for his project. Let him know we want pictures when he is done! :)

I am thinking that maybe the washers might be eliminated/reduced on the C machines with the beefed up chassis upgrades. We may or may not find out :?:

A couple of years ago I was having head pressure issues and what washers I had did not seem to help so I traced one out on a piece of plastic. It helped some but but I found out was a couple of the corner posts bolts on the bottom of the machine were loose and the corner posts were floating around when raising and lowering the head. Something you might check as well. Also check the two jam nuts on the lead bolts http://store.carvewright.com/home.php?cat=384 parts 57, 58 and 61 . They could be loose.

[bergerud]

Steve, I think the confusion with the washers was I was expecting them to be under the bolt on the topside of the plastic instead of on the underside. I don't have the manual right here at the moment and I will check tomorrow to see just where it shows the extra washers to be.


I think this is a undocumented feature that you will not find in print anywhere. The confusion is our fault for not explaining clearly the size and location of the washers and for not considering the possibility that the washers might not even be there.

Has anybody seen these washers on the posts of a C machine?

[henry1]

I think this is a undocumented feature that you will not find in print anywhere. The confusion is our fault for not explaining clearly the size and location of the washers and for not considering the possibility that the washers might not even be there.

Has anybody seen these washers on the posts of a C machine?
I have seen them on the few machine I had

[aokweld101]

The two machines I have did not come with it, both are c machines

[SharonB]

I think I finally have the crank handle problem under control. Thanks in part to Floyd, Berguard and to mikemi (for the loan of washers. I now have a couple extra until my order comes from LHR). As stated many times before it is the excellent help from forum members that keeps a lot of us up and running.

Off now to play with the software and to create a mater piece ;). Sharon

[fwharris]

I think I finally have the crank handle problem under control. Thanks in part to Floyd, Berguard and to mikemi (for the loan of washers. I now have a couple extra until my order comes from LHR). As stated many times before it is the excellent help from forum members that keeps a lot of us up and running.

Off now to play with the software and to create a mater piece ;). Sharon

Sharon,

Thanks and always glad to help out, that is why we are here! So I take it your machine is back to good then?