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View Full Version : Trying to develop better habits - place on center, place on end, or jog to position?



karossii
01-13-2015, 04:21 AM
Okay, since I have had the carvewright, the majority of the time I was not using it for one reason or another. I recently started using it a lot, several hours per day, several days per week. And I have noticed that my design and setup habits seem to be leaving me with some issues.

I design a lot of double sided carves. The only sled I have is a 1x12 with a 8"x10"0.125" carve region to hold corian for lithophanes. Otherwise, I just use wood as close to (and somewhat larger than) the designs I make in designer.

Almost all of my wood comes from big box stores. 1x8, 1x10, 1x12, 2x10 are the most common sizes I get. And I just get common boards, which seems to be knotty pine most of the time.

I design most of my projects at slightly under the 'actual' sizes of those boards. A 1x12 is theoretically 0.75" x 11.25" - so I design the project at 0.7" x 11". I do this because I always have variances in the width and thickness, and often in the length too, when measuring a board. This is especially troublesome on a 2-sided carve, since frequently enough, two or all three measurements come out differently when I flip the board.

I don't want to measure a board and design the project to that one specific board... for one, with the variances I mentioned above, it doesn't always work out when I try that. The other issue is, I often want to try and carve a project 2 or more times, on different boards.

I haven't had time to make a sled, and am unsure what all features I would need to incorporate, with all the various different sizes of projects I carve. And as a new dad, I have been pressed for time and barely get enough time to design and carve a fraction of what I would like to, much less extra time to make one or more sleds.

I have seen multiple references to different techniques for laying out projects. Here is my current preference/habit;

1) I create a new board based on the dimensional lumber I think I will use, given the desired project size.
2) I make it roughly the same size as the project, though I may resize it a few times as I design it.
3) I try to have it within 1"-2" wider and longer than the actual carves and cuts, so I have a minimum of 0.5" and up to 1" on all four sides.
4) I select a board from my 'stock' (or go and buy a board) which is at least 6" and no more than 10" longer than the project; this gives me from 3.5" to 6" on each side to stay under the rollers.
5) I load the project in the machine, and use the following settings (assuming no errors occur);
--> Stay Under Rollers (NO)
--> Keep Original Size (YES)
--> Center on Board (YES)
--> Cut to Size (NO)

So, my double sided carves line up properly, within 1/32" or so, less than 25% of the time. I don't know that I have had it line up perfectly more than once or twice. Given that, I think it is time for me to make one or more changes in how I design, and/or set up the project at the machine. I have seen a plethora of methods mentioned here on the forums. Just wondering what method(s) you would recommend, and why...?

Adding 4" to the right of the project in designer, and placing on end - theoretically would work, but I've done this three times, twice it seemed to do it as it is supposed to, though neither time did it align perfectly front and back; the other time it placed the carving on the wrong end of the board (the end without 4" of padding was butted up against the edge of the board, and the entire project was carved in the wrong half of the board, using the knotty bits).

Jog to position - I have *no idea* why, but I am just intimidated of using this option. I have thought to try it many times, and always end up choosing center instead. I would appreciate tips/descriptions of exactly how you do this - jig or no jig? jog to corner or center? How do you choose where exactly to jog to? How reliable/repeatable is this, especially if a double sided carve?

Using a sled - as mentioned, I don't have the time to make a sled... not unless it is the only option. It would mean setting aside time from designing and/or carving projects to sell. And it is another thing I am somewhat intimidated by, for no rational reason. I have the skills required to make one, I know. I have made more complex items before. But if I screw up making the jig, then it will mean not only the lost time in making it... but it will likely then screw up future projects I make, using that jig. At least until I figure out that I screwed up the jig (and how), and then fix it.

Any other methods? Any advice for me, other than to get over my irrational dislike/fears of doing something different from what I have been?

I would really like to have this machine become more reliable for me. So far, roughly 1/3 of the projects I have carved, I have had to stop and recarve from one third to halfway through (or in the worst case, I don't catch it until it is done, and recarve the whole thing)! That is just not acceptable for a CNC Router, which is, in theory, a precision machine. I am making a small profit right now on carving custom items - but it is very small indeed . . . and really not yet a profit considering what I have invested into this machine and software thus far. Granted, I got it more for personal use than as a means of income, and I do enjoy it from both the hobby aspect of designing and finishing the items as well as from the personal items I have made for myself. But I do hope to start making better income using this machine, so I am trying to be smarter about it - without ruining the fun I am having!

DickB
01-13-2015, 07:50 AM
Make a sled. It will save material and make projects more reliable. It is worth the effort. I run most of my projects with a sled. I too buy dimensional lumber from the box stores and one sled can accommodate various width boards.

I posted three weeks ago to your other thread on how to get accurate double-sided carves. Have you followed my advice?

CNC Carver
01-13-2015, 07:52 AM
Check out DickB comments on this thread. http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?26792-Lining-up-double-sided-carves-measuring-boards&highlight=double+sided+drill+hole Guess we were pointing him to your same answer at the same time!

FWMiller
01-13-2015, 09:07 AM
Learn how to use jog to center and then one sled can be used for many different sized projects. If you search the forum there are numerous threads that describe how to use it better than I could do here. The repeatability on my machine makes double sided carves that need precision alignment impossible. The best results I get are marking the center on both sides and then using jog to center with two separate carves.

fwharris
01-13-2015, 09:40 AM
Add me to the list of "use a sled"! In the long run it will reduce your material costs and put more money in your pocket.

unitedcases
01-13-2015, 09:49 AM
I have a 14.5 sled I just made. Adjustable tails. I plan to make a few and only use those while using center. So far it's working out great. Wish I had started with that size.

CarverJerry
01-13-2015, 09:53 AM
This is what I use almost 100% of the time. The ends are of equal size, mine are 4". The end I feed into the machine is a fixed end or like on a vise jaw. The other one I position it against the board that I want to carve and screw it down using a bit of an angle on the screw so it will "push" against the board and keep it tight. If the design requires the edges to cut thru the top and bottom then I add side rails. I have never had any problems (knock on wood) using this sled and I tell the machine NO for stay under rollers.
Guess the advice here is take the time and make yourself a sled, and remember to use masking tape under the (keyboard side) sled to keep brass roller from slipping.
Good luck

DocWheeler
01-13-2015, 11:07 AM
I always seem to add my two-cents worth to these topics.
As far as some write-up on Jog-to - see this post (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?25285-Jog-to-Position-Still-a-Mystery&p=225272#post225272).

If you have not used rails you are missing out on the simplest solution to stock boards.
Cut up some scrap lumber into 5/8" to 3/4" wide strips in pairs from 16 - 48" long.
Fasten a pair of rails to the sides of your (shorter) board, put some 1-1/2" tape
across the ends and you are good to go for place-in-center.
If you attach small pieces of stock to the rails so they are "L" shaped; think hockey stick,
you could avoid using any tape - but Al would not make as much from his masking tape stock.
The "L" only needs to extend a little more than half-way to the other rail for it to work.

OK, I feel better now.

fwharris
01-13-2015, 11:20 AM
I always seem to add my two-cents worth to these topics.
As far as some write-up on Jog-to - see this post (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?25285-Jog-to-Position-Still-a-Mystery&p=225272#post225272).

If you have not used rails you are missing out on the simplest solution to stock boards.
Cut up some scrap lumber into 5/8" to 3/4" wide strips in pairs from 16 - 48" long.
Fasten a pair of rails to the sides of your (shorter) board, put some 1-1/2" tape
across the ends and you are good to go for place-in-center.
If you attach small pieces of stock to the rails so they are "L" shaped; think hockey stick,
you could avoid using any tape - but Al would not make as much from his masking tape stock.
The "L" only needs to extend a little more than half-way to the other rail for it to work.

OK, I feel better now.

Ken,

Yes the "rail" method is probably one of the quickest and easiest set ups to use. I've gone with using oak 1x2 for the rails. It is a nice hard wood that will keep a good edge and is not prone to warp/twist.

Mike1
01-13-2015, 01:12 PM
Doc, do you have a photo of what you are describing? Thank you.

DocWheeler
01-13-2015, 01:42 PM
Mike,

It took me awhile to find a graphic artist to get the quality I wanted, but here it is.

73828

fwharris
01-13-2015, 01:53 PM
Here is another look at what Ken is talking about. You can think of this as an adjustable type sled. It can be used for any width board (up to the 14 1/2" limit total).

DocWheeler
01-13-2015, 02:00 PM
Thanks Floyd, but the deviation that I described was just two "L" shaped pieces that could fit various length and width boards.
One "L" rail for one side and end and the other one for the other side and end.
They would have to be attached fairly well to the board to work correctly.

Also note that the attached pieces on the ends are 1-3/8 " or more wide, no center-tape is necessary.
That goes for your sketch as well. The sensor shuts off while going in the X direction until a roller drops.

FWMiller
01-13-2015, 02:41 PM
I think if you don't have the center tape the board sensor will likely detect the end of the workpiece before it gets to the L because of the gap.

DocWheeler
01-13-2015, 02:50 PM
The sensor shuts off after finding the first end and turns back on after a roller switch is activated when it dops off the other end of the board.
Same thing happens going back the other way.
If you use 1-1/2" wide board or tape with rails IT WILL NOT SEE THE VOIDS at the ends of the board.

Mike1
01-13-2015, 02:51 PM
Thank you Doc and Floyd.

FWMiller
01-13-2015, 02:59 PM
I have a sled with rails and 3.5 inch end pieces. I had left a gap between the workpiece and the end piece and I though I saw the machine stop measuring at the end of the workpiece instead of at the end of the sled. Now I need to go back and try again to refresh my recollection of what I had observed.

DocWheeler
01-13-2015, 03:00 PM
This is only a guess, but it makes sense to me.

Back in the old-days we use to have problems with coloration causing the sensor to trigger when going over the board.
Since the roller switches can tell the firmware when an end is approaching, they modified the code to have the sensor off as much as possible.
Note that the sensor is also off for the first inch in the Y direction. As I have noted elsewhere, code is written so you can measure the "Y" across the rails and void without a problem - just make sure that your rails are narrower than an inch.

fwharris
01-13-2015, 04:11 PM
With Ken's set up the wider end pieces come into play before the sensor is turned on when the compression roller drops. On mine the you do not need the end piece as the tape just fools the sensor into thinking it is the board. Either way works.

karossii
01-13-2015, 10:57 PM
So, how do you attach the side rails to the workpiece? Just masking tape? Is that really enough? Glue maybe? I would think not screws, as the whole point is to minimize waste, and you'd have to avoid the screws' areas.

fwharris
01-13-2015, 11:10 PM
Yes masking tape. Tape both the top and bottom sides along the rails. I also tape across the width on end of the carving board. I have also used double sided tape on the face of the rails that butts up to the carving board.

The masking tape holds very well.

DocWheeler
01-14-2015, 10:27 AM
So, how do you attach the side rails to the workpiece? Just masking tape? Is that really enough? Glue maybe? I would think not screws, as the whole point is to minimize waste, and you'd have to avoid the screws' areas.

As Floyd states, tape top and bottom works well, and makes Al Who happy!
Screws work well especially for non-rectangular objects where it is easy to find areas that don't interfere.