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kyeakel
07-02-2014, 04:43 PM
So I just bought designer 2.0 in May. Now I get a notice that designer 3.0 is out and it will cost me another $200 to upgrade to it. If I would have waited I could have jumped from basic designer to 3.0 for $300. This must be a mistake, why would designer 2.0 owners be penalized the extra $100?

Kipp

lynnfrwd
07-02-2014, 05:08 PM
So I just bought designer 2.0 in May. Now I get a notice that designer 3.0 is out and it will cost me another $200 to upgrade to it. If I would have waited I could have jumped from basic designer to 3.0 for $300. This must be a mistake, why would designer 2.0 owners be penalized the extra $100?

Kipp

Designer 2.0 was released in June of 2013. You do not have to purchase 3.0 right now. You can wait until May of 2015, if you wish, but we will most likely then introduce 4.0.

I have already heard everything from "I bought it last week" to "I bought it in January". I'm sorry, but the cost will remain the same no matter when it was purchased. You can call me and complain or post on here and complain, but that is the decision that my Customer Service reps and I will abide by. We will also abide by the rules of behavior on this forum or your post will be deleted. Other companies that come out with a new product have done the same thing, so this is nothing new.

SouthernSigns
07-02-2014, 05:12 PM
I wouldnt look at it as being "penalized". It is technology and any technology worth owning is always going to be changing and evolving. Consider the Apple I phones. Just when you think you know how to operate the version you have, they are coming out with the newest version. As Connie said...This is nothing new. It is the price you pay for technology.

I still love playing my old Atari video games...Why should I be penalized and have to pay $400.00 for a new fancy X Box machine? Its technology man....We have to learn to live with it!!

SouthernSigns
07-02-2014, 05:21 PM
One other point Id like to make...just my 2 cents....How much of the Designer 2 version have you mastered? Have you mastered every aspect of the Designer 2 version? What is it about the Designer 3 that you cant get by without for a while? I wouldnt worry too much about it until you have absolute mastery of the version you have. That's why it is a "building block" buying system. You start with what you need and what you can work with. As you become more proficient you can then start looking at more advanced software add ons.

jlovchik
07-02-2014, 05:30 PM
So I just bought designer 2.0 in May. Now I get a notice that designer 3.0 is out and it will cost me another $200 to upgrade to it. If I would have waited I could have jumped from basic designer to 3.0 for $300. This must be a mistake, why would designer 2.0 owners be penalized the extra $100?

Kipp

If you recently purchased version 2, I can see why it may seem like being penalized. Designer 2 has been out for a year, and the price paid for it allows for the use of it's features. Those who didn't upgrade to version 2 will claim they are being penalized $100 as well for not upgrading to Designer 2. If you feel you haven't got your money's worth out of version 2 yet, wait to upgrade later in the year. There is no definite schedule to the release of software versions. We release when we have enough features for a release. It may work out to be 2 years before the next one, we don't know yet. We generally release something new at the users conference every year though. So it's more of a question of do you want to have the latest version now and try to sync up with our development cycle, or wait to upgrade later.

TerryT
07-02-2014, 05:36 PM
Maybe a discount for those that purchased 2 within a month or two of the release of 3 might have taken some of the sting out of it. Or maybe a heads up that three was about to be released so they had the option of waiting if they choose? Just thinkin' out loud.

aokweld101
07-02-2014, 05:44 PM
Another way that I look at... 2.xxx is all that I need I can do anything I want without having the 3.xxx, just because they offer it don't mean you have to buy it! I want to buy the rotary jig and software because I see some things that are worth getting it for ..If you don't need it than don't buy it..That is why they call it a add ons....

lynnfrwd
07-02-2014, 06:00 PM
Terry. Then what about that person that bought 2.5 months ago. There will never be a satisfactory cut off date. It is what it is.

CNC Carver
07-02-2014, 07:05 PM
So will 2.0 be free to all users now as was stated when 2.0 came out? One release back would stay free.

henry1
07-02-2014, 07:59 PM
Terry. Then what about that person that bought 2.5 months ago. There will never be a satisfactory cut off date. It is what it is.
do you need the DXF importer for it to work. for the update 3.0

lynnfrwd
07-02-2014, 08:31 PM
Only if you import a DXF. You can also use the drawing tools.

ktjwilliams
07-02-2014, 09:43 PM
This is bogus !!! As 1 said a heads up that this was coming would-a been nice !! Another guy referred to the IPhone alwayz being upgraded ... He failed to mention all the updated software for the phone is free !!! Prior to 2.0 the designer updates were free .... Now it seems there's going to be an annual fee ... It's annoying that there is other software I wanted but passed recently to get 2.XXX ,, Only now to find out that it's outta date at 2 months old .... 2 Months ago 3.0 was well in the works and I could-a been given a heads up to wait a month or 2 ...

TerryT
07-02-2014, 10:23 PM
Terry. Then what about that person that bought 2.5 months ago. There will never be a satisfactory cut off date. It is what it is.

Yeah, I guess. As has been said already, you don't HAVE to buy 3. Personally I find that 1.86 still works just fine for me.

lynnfrwd
07-02-2014, 10:25 PM
Your floor feathering issue was made an option a long time ago.

TerryT
07-02-2014, 10:30 PM
Sorry Connie. I wasn't quick enough on the edit. But yes, it was made an option but only if you bought 2.0. 1.87 is still flawed (in my opinion).

lynnfrwd
07-02-2014, 10:35 PM
Like 12-14 new features now...I would think an upgrade would be pretty tempting.

Durtdawber
07-02-2014, 11:08 PM
So will 2.0 be free to all users now as was stated when 2.0 came out? One release back would stay free.

Great question...where is the link for the free download of 2.0? It was stated that the previous version would become the free version when 2.0 came out.

CW-HAL9000
07-02-2014, 11:42 PM
Don't hold your breath, I don't think 2.0 will be free for many years, if ever. I like all the new upgrades and rotary jigs and such but I can't afford them. I think the software is becoming more profitable for the company than the hardware and as long as there are those who buy the latest and greatest as soon as it is released and can afford it, CW will keep going with this new business model. I only buy what I absolutely need for the paying projects I have upcoming. I waited a year to buy centerline and only then when a sign required it. I paid for it with the profits from the sign and have used it to make money ever since. Based on that I want the rotary jig, but I don't need it. I would have bought it already though just for fun but when I found out I had to buy 2.0 to use it I got that purchase out of my head.

Dale
07-02-2014, 11:43 PM
Here we go again!. In case the new guys do not know we went through this whole thing last year when 2.0 came out. There were several hundred messages to the thread and several people got their messages deleted which really caused a stir. We lost one of our very respected members over this. Like it or not this is the company's policy. If you want the newest, greatest thing you will have to pay for it. My wife has an embroidery program which comes out with an upgrade every year or so and it is handled the same way, the only difference is the price is around $1800. Lucky for me she sees no need to upgrade. Now I do agree that it would be nice to be notified in advance that an upgrade will be available soon but I guess we can count on something new beling released at the conference.

Just my thoughts.

brdad
07-03-2014, 05:42 AM
And yet I can show you free basic software (advanced is a <$100 fee) for slightly different hardware which bugs and quirks are fixed often in both the base and advanced software. And remember the Carvewright is is a machine which is not recommended or warranted for commercial or industrial use which IMO puts it in a different class than higher end equipment. I am also guessing the software for the embroidery machine is not specific to the machine. If your wife chooses to change brands of embroidery machine, she likely can use the software with the new machine, as well as having the option of using less expensive software with the machine she currently uses.

For those reasons I don't think there is much to compare the CW software and pricing to other devices. IMO the CW is a small town kid trying to play in the big city. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does create challenges for both LHR and the end users.

I'll likely never be impressed with LHR's pricing structure, but the vector groups do make me want to get V3. I'll hold off until I need it, am assured the vector groups do what I want, and I am convinced any bugs and quirks are fixed.

That being said, are any of the 2.x bugs and quirks been fixed in 3.x? Can we load all of our patterns and projects in their proper directories without crashing or slowing down the system? Are the release notes available?

tierman
07-03-2014, 06:30 AM
Question: I am using 2.007, will I be open a MPC or PTN that are designed with 3.0?

Smoken D
07-03-2014, 08:39 AM
Yep, I'm another that purchased the 2 in May. I do know that is the way it goes. I'm not good at designing yet and many of the free gifts being passed on by very kind folks were in the 2 design and those of us still in 1.187 were not able to download them. So, one of the reasons I saved for the 2. Now many projects will be in the 3 and the cycle repeats. Now I know if I am going to upgrade, wait till July of each year. I'll remember this time, I hope. :)

henry1
07-03-2014, 08:44 AM
Yep, I'm another that purchased the 2 in May. I do know that is the way it goes. I'm not good at designing yet and many of the free gifts being passed on by very kind folks were in the 2 design and those of us still in 1.187 were not able to download them. So, one of the reasons I saved for the 2. Now many projects will be in the 3 and the cycle repeats. Now I know if I am going to upgrade, wait till July of each year. I'll remember this time, I hope. :)

I feel the same way , its to bad you have to pay $200 from 2 to 3 ,, to me it should be $100 if you are at 2 now

jackh
07-03-2014, 08:47 AM
I have no problem with being charged for a new Designer program. S/W development costs money and new features must be paid for. I am happy that LHR continues to build new features. MY PROBLEM if I understand this correctly is that all support for 2.xxx has been immediately and totally discontinued. Does this mean that as bugs are found in 2.xxx, and there will be, they will not be fixed? Even Microsoft is not that heartless. I get updates to Windows 7 frequently. When I purchase S/W I expect support for that S/W for a period of time even when a new version is available. If support for 2.xxx is withdrawn one can say you don't have to buy 3.xxx to get the new features BUT if new bugs are found in 2.xxx making it inoperable for included features that have been bought and paid for, one is, by default, FORCED to upgrade.

blhutchens
07-03-2014, 08:52 AM
I feel the same way , its to bad you have to pay $200 from 2 to 3 ,, to me it should be $100 if you are at 2 now

I agree…..looks like i will bite the bullet and move forward since any upgrades or improvements will be done to 3.0 even though I may not use any of the new features enough to offset the cost.

Brent

unitedcases
07-03-2014, 09:19 AM
I usually stay out of this, but, if you don't want to pay then don't pay. I thought the forum was here to help us all, not fuss about lhr. I'm pretty sure the guy who sat and developed designer 3 has to go home and feed his kids. If they didn't develop this new version you would still be where you are at right now. Sorry, I'm just not a fan of fussing via a keyboard. Even though I'm doing it now. Many thanks to lhr for taking my business to an all new level. If I buy it I will simply claim it on my taxes, and not moan and groan about it. And for all of you that are butthurt now by my comments feel free to pm me with your email and I will send you a Hurt Feelings Report. I use them for my young jarheads on a daily basis so I am quite familiar with it.

ktjwilliams
07-03-2014, 09:21 AM
I noticed that there were 4 complaints made with the BBB against LHR last year .. I think that is high for a small company ,, especially when most of us resolve problems rite here on the forum ... I bought my 2.0 6 weeks ago when it was known to the company that 3.0 would be coming out ... This is a poor business practice to sell me a product that they know is gonna be out dated in a couple weeks ... They could've suggested to me to wait a couple weeks that some changes were being made .. In my opinion we are a dedicated group and remain faithful to the CW/CC's in when they sometimes frustrate the crap outta us ... This alwayzzzz seemed to be a tite knit group alwayz willing to step in and help each other, make and create new devises for the machines and pass the info on to the Company and the group .. The company, once they knew that 3.0 was ready for release, should have drastically reduced the price of 2.0 so the new upgrade cost to 3.0 would be the same for all ... Instead I spent money at LHR for the 2.0 6 weeks ago ,,, and folks that didn't spend the money for LHR software get the benefit of paying a lower amount then we that have supported LHR ... Underhanded Business practice ...

Metallus
07-03-2014, 09:27 AM
Even Microsoft is not that heartless.

Microsoft has thousands of software engineers. We have.... 2.

If a bug is critical enough it may be fixed on a previous version. Probably the only major thing that would cause a new "old" release is a complete incompatibility to a newer operating system.

blhutchens
07-03-2014, 09:28 AM
Just bought it. I think it will pay for its self with the added textures alone.

lynnfrwd
07-03-2014, 09:35 AM
Seriously, Kevin? We have an A+ rating on BBB and that is 4 complaints in the last 3 years. 3 were settled or dismissed.

unitedcases
07-03-2014, 09:36 AM
Someone needs to kill this thread.

jlovchik
07-03-2014, 09:44 AM
Someone needs to kill this thread.

The thread is fine. No matter how we at LHR approach the pricing or timing of our releases, some people are inevitably upset about it. As long as the thread stays within the forum policies, people can have their say.

ehpepper
07-03-2014, 10:13 AM
I bought the Ver 2.xx software less than 90 days ago... If they had told me a Ver. 3.xx was going to be released I would have waited to purchase. Contacted LHR about the upgrade to Ver 3.xx here is the e-mail chain:


--- My Original e-mail to LHR ---

Gentlemen:

On 03/28/14 I purchased an upgrade from Project Designer Ver. 1.xx to Version 2.xx. Now, approximately 90 days later, I find out that Version 3.xx is available for an additional $200 dollars. If I had known Ver. 3.xx was in the works, I would have waited to upgrade, saving myself $100 in the process.

I believe that due to the relatively short period between my purchase of Ver 2.xx and the release of Ver. 3.xx, I should be offered the upgrade at a substantial discount.

Thank you for your attention and consideration in this matter.


--- Response Received from LHR ---

Mr. Pepper,

I understand that you just bought your 2.0 upgrade this last March. The 3.0 was released with our conference this last week, just as 2.0 was released in June of 2013.
The upgrade price is $200, whenever you choose to upgrade. You do not need to buy the 3.0 upgrade right now, if you decide not to do so.

Connie


--- My Response to LHR ---

Gentlemen:

So, in other words, you are not going to offer to discount the upgrade price in spite of the fact that I just purchased an upgrade less than 90 days ago? I could have waited 90 days and saved myself $100.00.

upgrade from version 1.xx to 3.xx = $300
upgrade from version 1.xx to 2.xx = $200 (on 3/28/14) + upgrade from 2.xx to 3.xx =$200, total of $400.00

I really think you should reconsider your policy on this. You are probably going to lose valued customers over this.

tcough3475
07-03-2014, 10:31 AM
My biggest concern with the new release is backwards compatability. I can't count the number of post when we went from 1.xxx to 2.xxx in regards to this issue. I think the greatest asset to the CW user is this forum but the lack of being able to share across versions, IMO, as either an oversight or intentional, and may lead to the lose of contributers or users of the forum. Just about all software packages give the user a choice to save to an earlier version. The lack of this feature requires too much extra work on the part of someone sharing a pattern or file, and at some point, they may stop sharing.

Call it what you want, but it looks like the annual fee is here to stay. We got spoiled as upgrades for 1.xxx lasted many years for free. I for one don't see the added benefit I get from a couple new features, especially for $200. At this point, I'm planning on saving my money to purchase another software product and import into Designer.

Tracy

lynnfrwd
07-03-2014, 10:37 AM
Mr. Pepper I will leave your post in this thread. Please do not post multiple times.

Not proper to post private emails. If you sent additional emails, I have not seen them as I am out of the office until Monday.

tcough3475
07-03-2014, 10:39 AM
Correction - it looks like patterns will be backward compatable. But that still isn't enough to excite me.

Tracy

Canemaker
07-03-2014, 10:53 AM
So bottom line is if the improvements don't have an advantage that can improve the quality of your craftsmanship you can always hold out
on the latest update... I feel that even if I devoted six hours a day for six months there is so much to learn that someone can't possibly learn it all.
I'm happy with 1.187 for what I doing and don't make signs for the benefit of 2.0, but do see use of the vector carving in 3.0, what a spot to be in.

Every thing in this business (wood working) has a price... and budget. So buy what you need for improvement and hope that LHR continues the updates.

jackh
07-03-2014, 11:02 AM
Connie, I would appreciate your/LHR's comments/position on bugs found in the 2.xxx S/W such as the 2.007 fix. No problem with charges for new S/W but I feel very strongly that LHR should continue to support 2.xxx.

lynnfrwd
07-03-2014, 11:19 AM
This was addressed by Metallus earlier this morning!

kyeakel
07-03-2014, 11:43 AM
My intent of starting this thread was not to create a big hoopla, it was to question the difference in price between upgrading from the basic version of designer to the 3.0 version being $100 cheaper than buying 2.0 and then upgrading to 3.0. I know software costs money to create, I've been a software engineer for the last 35 years. I probably would not have even noticed if basic to 3.0 was $400, making the cost of ownership the same.

kipp

jackh
07-03-2014, 11:50 AM
"If a bug is critical enough it may be fixed on a previous version."

Yes, Connie he did. I just wasn't happy with the word "may" in his response so I thought I would try again. I would also like to know what "critical enough" may imply.

lynnfrwd
07-03-2014, 12:28 PM
I can't answer that, jack.

mazing
07-03-2014, 12:30 PM
I apologize that I haven't been more active on this forum and I hate that it seems that I mostly chime in when dissatisfied. But please take my word, I am a team player and appreciate anyone's honest effort. I will give praise as much as, or even more often than I complain or criticize. In actuality, I feel that praise and support is what gives me the right to also complain when needed.


Most software applications are indeed updated regularly. That's one sign of software that is constantly improving, evolving, addressing user problems/concerns, fixing bugs that will inevitably emerge, and keeping up with technology. For this reason, I usually "have to" upgrade just to stay on par with the times.

However, most software companies do not make major version updates on a yearly basis--and if they do, they do not stop supporting and fixing the previous version for at least a year or two. Let's face it, not many people purchase new software when it is first released. That's actually a good practice since most first releases have bugs. So waiting a while for the software to mature and become more stable is wise. So let's say you wait 6 months after a release to make your purchase; which is more than reasonable. It is ridiculous that the software company abandons this version just 6 months later by no longer updating it!

It is even more ridiculous that the company expects you to pay anywhere near the same price you just paid for the new version. Even the "big" software companies give ample notification when they plan to make a major change like this. They make it clear what is going to happen and usually offer a major discount for the "current" version since it is then essentially a "lame duck". Often, they will announce a 6-month period prior to the new release that any purchase of the most current version comes with a free upgrade to the upcoming new release. That shows respect for the customer and their hard-earned money. It also helps build a loyal customer base. I feel upgrading from Designer 2 to Designer 3 should be $100--especially since Designer 2 was being touted as the next great version with no mention that it would be abandoned "technologically speaking" in a year's time from its release.

Now, I absolutely understand that LHR is in business and business is to make money. They can't just give things away at a loss. But they shouldn't take advantage of its loyal customers either, which is exactly what I feel is being done here. From personal experience, I know that LHR can be fair but they can also be stubborn and not be willing to make changes once they have made a decision--even if the change has little or no negative effect to themselves and/or with foster a stronger and more lucrative business. I just hope this is not an occasion of the latter.


One user mentioned to just write it off on taxes. That's certainly viable if you're in business, but let’s remember that the CarveWright is a hobbyist machine, not a commercial-grade even though some of us may use it for business. I also read that if we aren't happy, just don't buy the software and stop belly-aching. I have to respectfully disagree with that. If a consumer doesn't express disapproval or point out problems they have, how will a company even be aware of the situation? And how will anything ever get resolved?


Lastly, I just want to express my respect that LHR allows us to post our grievances as long as we do so in a courteous manner. I just hope that this is not falling on deaf ears as I fear it will cause me (and most likely many others) to move on to another cnc machine and software. If you do a search on the internet other than this site, you will most likely find like I have that the majority of comments, reviews, and such reflect that the CarveWright is a capable hobbyist machine but is quite problematic and that LHR's software policies, prices, and capabilities are a major reason to go with something else. LHR has been making advances in the machine and huge strides with the software, I just hope they revise their policies and pricing practices before those internet opinions become pure fact and cause the end of the company. I feel such a change will only help the company by attracting a much larger and loyal customer base...but what do I know?



Mike T.

jlovchik
07-03-2014, 12:33 PM
If there were "critical bugs" in Designer 2 or Designer Basic, they would be known by now and already addressed. What Metallus stated is the likelihood of anything being so critical we have to address it would most likely be changes in operating systems that will inevitably come someday.

jlovchik
07-03-2014, 01:05 PM
Ok, I have to chime in a little bit here. I know everyone wants to get their 2 cents in, but lets stay in the realm of reality when doing so. First of all, there are always pissed off customers, no matter what we do. The thing is, those who bought Designer 2 got to use the features of Designer 2 and there is value in that. If they only upgraded to Designer 2 recently and feel they haven't got their money's worth out of it, then they should wait to upgrade. The only other option is to always buy when the software is released so you get your money's worth by the time when the next release comes out. This applies to every piece of technology and software on the planet. Designer 2 is also not obsolete by any means and is stable, so stating it is not supported implies that it needs supporting, which it doesn't.

Second, comparing the CarveWright System to any of the other so called "options" for CNC on the market as if they are somehow more capable or more stable is completely misinformed. There is no other system that could be bought for under $10,000 that can be maintained annually as inexpensively as a CarveWright or come even close to it's capabilities. Software and all! I'll challenge anyone who doesn't believe me to a carve off with any other system out there to prove it. I've done it before, and run circles around them. Don't be fooled by anyone stating an open loop stepper motor system is anything but an erector set with 1970's tech.

Bottom line is, we spent a lot of time and money to develop the features. We also spent a lot of time figuring out how to price everything. We worked from the data we had available, like percentage of people doing updates, and active machines in the market, and whatever else is relevant. This gives us an idea of what we can do and how to set our pricing. We could've gone an entirely different route and created a Basic and Pro Version. The problem with doing that means abandoning the modular approach and charging like $1500 or more for the Pro version, like other software companies do. The new version fee's for that would have to be pretty high as well. Doing it the way we have generates the needed revenue for us to continue and keeps the pricing at a low cost.

I know there are still people who are going to want to have their say about this, but nothing will change about the policy because it can't.

CNC Carver
07-03-2014, 02:17 PM
Joe I'm still waiting for an answer on the promise of 2.0 becoming free when new release comes out. Where can 2.0 be downloaded and registered for free? That will let those of us who do not need the latest and greatest to continue to get improvements.

jackh
07-03-2014, 02:32 PM
Please allow me to offer my sincere congratulations to you Mr. Marketing Director and CarveWright Expert you are the only person I have ever met in my extensive 30 year aerospace S/W development experience to publicly state "it is not supported implies that it needs supporting, which it doesn't". The implication being that Designer 2 is bug free and perfect. If in fact it is, you are the first in my experience to achieve this.

jlovchik
07-03-2014, 02:37 PM
Joe I'm still waiting for an answer on the promise of 2.0 becoming free when new release comes out. Where can 2.0 be downloaded and registered for free? That will let those of us who do not need the latest and greatest to continue to get improvements.

Designer 2 will not become the free basic version. That was not promised by LHR. It was discussed by other members of the forum, but not confirmed or guaranteed by LHR.

DocWheeler
07-03-2014, 02:58 PM
Joe,

I have never worked for NASA or the Federal government directly; therefore, I am unfamiliar with some pricing practices. I have worked for and owned companies that have had to maintain pricing to stay in business, therefore our backgrounds are somewhat different.

In the nearly seven years I’ve owned my CarveWright machines, I have spent at least six months trying to work with you and your staff while creating some Tricks-and-Tips. I did not think that LHR’s policies were as constructive as they should have been, but I feel that I learned quite a bit about how your company felt about the customer base. I believe that if I had been able to actually talk with the programmers or had access to someone there that could have answered my questions, the T-N-T about Jigs and Sleds could have been better and the one about Positioning could have been published. After struggling for three months to get information for the first one, I simply asked Michael to publish the article as it was. The message seemed to be "It is my company, I did not ask for your help, go away."

I was also a computer programmer for about thirty years before retiring so I have some understanding in that area also.

From my perspective, you seem to continue to shoot yourself in the foot one way or another. You can continue to alienate your base only so much before you destroy what you have built. Henry Ford could have charged more for his cars, but he was more intent upon providing jobs in the USA and building cars. There are thousands of companies that chose to extract the maximum from their products; nearly all of them are no longer in business.

Granted, many of my experiences date from the 1960’s so some things have changed, although perhaps not for the better. Also, my experience may be quite different than others might have.

If the programming costs are what is driving these costs, perhaps having the coding done offshore, like the machines, could bring down the costs. I would suggest "open-source", but control becomes a problem if it is necessary for your model.

However, your post above sounds more like there is value in the CW system that can be "milked", and you will get push-back from those being squeezed.
The message we may hear is "It is my company; you are just a source of our income."

Note: I love what the CW allows me to do and I believe that it started out well; there seems to be too little respect for the user at times. This is a hobby machine that does some amazing things.

CNC Carver
07-03-2014, 04:23 PM
It was Connie that had said the free version would would be one behind current version. But that thread has removed.

lynnfrwd
07-03-2014, 04:42 PM
Throw me under the bus...that is what I thought, but who am I? I don't have access to check if I did or did not say it. Either way, I don't make those decisions.

Mikewiz
07-03-2014, 04:56 PM
Well said Mazing!

ktjwilliams
07-03-2014, 05:52 PM
Cause we resolve our issue here on the forum one way or another... BUT,,, You guyz couldn't have told me to wait a couple weeks ??? Yeah Just a couple weeks .... What kind of customer service is that ?? Full well knowing that your releasing a new version but you still sold me the out dated version ... And we had several e-mail exchanges and phone calls during that time !!!! I would never do something like this to one of my customers... If I got new and better material coming in ,, I would tell em and let em know ... And offer a good discount if I was using the older material if they couldn't wait ...


Seriously, Kevin? We have an A+ rating on BBB and that is 4 complaints in the last 3 years. 3 were settled or dismissed.

CNC Carver
07-03-2014, 06:29 PM
Just trying to remind Joe where it came from a representative of LHR. Sorry but that is why I was waiting and not upgrading to latest and greatest. I'm sure others have waited also.

Jeff

Joe said "Designer 2 will not become the free basic version. That was not promised by LHR. It was discussed by other members of the forum, but not confirmed or guaranteed by LHR."


Throw me under the bus...that is what I thought, but who am I? I don't have access to check if I did or did not say it. Either way, I don't make those decisions.

brdad
07-03-2014, 07:42 PM
"If a bug is critical enough it may be fixed on a previous version."

Yes, Connie he did. I just wasn't happy with the word "may" in his response so I thought I would try again. I would also like to know what "critical enough" may imply.

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?23476-1-187-quot-glitches-quot-post-to-report discusses many of the concerns with 1.187 not being updated after 2.0 was released. Most of the issues were passed off as expected behavior or "needs attention", and assuming nothing has changed LHR will put 99.9% of it's attention on 3.x. So if designer can open and load a project onto the card, I'm guessing the problem is not critical enough.

FWMiller
07-04-2014, 01:19 AM
Don't be fooled by anyone stating an open loop stepper motor system is anything but an erector set with 1970's tech.
.
I was gonna sit on the sidelines for this one but now I can't help myself. Now I've been a reasonably satisfied Carvewright owner for a number of years now and do appreciate it's capabilities but am pretty aware of its limitations as well. It's biggest advantage is it's size and that's the primary reason I have it rather than the "70's Tech". It does have capabilities that can't be had with this so called "70's Tech" such as rotary carving and carving of very long boards. But how do I reconcile the fact that a friend bought some 70's tech a year ago and spend $5k including accessories and a brand new laptop to run it and he has not spent a dime (other than bits) for maintenance while putting nearly 5000 hours on his machine while I've spent over $500 replacing one broken part after another while running less than 100 hours of machine time. The software, while not modular, that came with it provides all of the capabilities (other than rotary) that I would have if I bought all of the Carvewright add ons. So in the end the cost gap is not as wide as you would like to think it is and a machine with a moving x-axis just cannot meet the reliability and accuracy of this "70's Tech". And every time he shows me something new he designed I say darn, I have to buy a software upgrade to do that. So yes, Carvewright has to make money to stay in business and they provide a very capable niche product that meets my needs and the pricing is what it is. LHR should be proud of the product they have developed, however, to preach that the cost and capability differential between Carvewright and the next option is that big is misleading at best. And I still can't get over the fact that if I spend $300 to upgrade to 3.0 it still will not be able to do a pocket cut without spending half an hour drawing vector paths.

blhutchens
07-04-2014, 07:14 AM
Cause we resolve our issue here on the forum one way or another... BUT,,, You guyz couldn't have told me to wait a couple weeks ??? Yeah Just a couple weeks .... What kind of customer service is that ?? Full well knowing that your releasing a new version but you still sold me the out dated version ... And we had several e-mail exchanges and phone calls during that time !!!! I would never do something like this to one of my customers... If I got new and better material coming in ,, I would tell em and let em know ... And offer a good discount if I was using the older material if they couldn't wait ...

If you look at it this way, 1.xx users are paying $300 for 3.0 with no 2.xx
You payed $200 for 2.xx and will pay $200 for 3.0
so for them to have what you have it would cost them $500
It only cost you $400

Brent

brdad
07-04-2014, 07:32 AM
If you look at it this way, 1.xx users are paying $300 for 3.0 with no 2.xx
You payed $200 for 2.xx and will pay $200 for 3.0
so for them to have what you have it would cost them $500
It only cost you $400

Brent

That would only be true if those of us still using 1.187 had to purchase V2 and V3 to get all of the features. But if we just pay $300 for V3 we have all the features in V2 as well for $300.

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 08:03 AM
Minus a potential years worth of use.

$200 spent in July 2013 = 1 year of use and
$200 in July 2014 = 2 years of use for $400 compared to
$300 in July 2014 = 1 year of use for $300.

jackh
07-04-2014, 08:37 AM
"If a bug is critical enough it may be fixed on a previous version."

Yes, Connie he did. I just wasn't happy with the word "may" in his response so I thought I would try again. I would also like to know what "critical enough" may imply.


http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?23476-1-187-quot-glitches-quot-post-to-report discusses many of the concerns with 1.187 not being updated after 2.0 was released. Most of the issues were passed off as expected behavior or "needs attention", and assuming nothing has changed LHR will put 99.9% of it's attention on 3.x. So if designer can open and load a project onto the card, I'm guessing the problem is not critical enough.


I am not worried about the $100, $200, ... that the new S/W costs. Or if it is "fair" to the owners of 1.xxx or 2.xxx. I can buy it or not as I choose and the manufacturer my charge as much as they like. I am concerned that the S/W I have purchased continues to do what it has been advertised that it will do. AND that it is supported in the event we find it does not. I have never in my life (82 years) seen bug free S/W, no matter what Joe states.

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 08:58 AM
Well, I'm afraid, I can't answer that...

DocWheeler
07-04-2014, 11:35 AM
After my post on page #5 yesterday I soon modified it because it was too harsh and it did not express exactly what I intended. I'm sorry that I came across the way that I did, and hope to do better from now on.

For me, and a lot of others, this forum has been a pleasant place to share with friends. This is being threatened, and that bothers me. Those who have not "paid the price" for the most recent Designer software are left out of the conversations because we/they cannot open the mpcs. As the price goes up there are more and more of us that will be left out of the discussions and the forum (that has been so helpful to new owners) will wither.

For a lot of us, the CW is either the most expensive tools in the shop or among the most expensive to buy. It is perhaps the most expensive to maintain even though we do it willingly in order to be able to create the things it allows us to build.

The apparent attitude that there is value in the product that the company wants to extract causes anxiety because it creates a feeling of recklessness and greed that threatens our wellbeing. We lose the “family” of friends, LHR loses one of its major assets, and the machines themselves become seen as less of an asset and more of a liability.

I would propose that the software people create a viewer for any mpc to be opened to view by anyone regardless if Designer version (or add-on) to solve at least one of the problems created by the company’s software policies. This could also help sales as people see what can be created with the expensive new software and add-ons.

Durtdawber
07-04-2014, 11:47 AM
Just trying to remind Joe where it came from a representative of LHR. Sorry but that is why I was waiting and not upgrading to latest and greatest. I'm sure others have waited also.

Jeff

Joe said "Designer 2 will not become the free basic version. That was not promised by LHR. It was discussed by other members of the forum, but not confirmed or guaranteed by LHR."


Jeff,

You are correct on the statement about previous version becoming the basic free and about the source of this statement. I spent 2 hours searching the forum for the thread last night but it has been removed.

Dale
07-04-2014, 11:47 AM
That "viewer" program sounds like a good idea. I have no idea how hard or expensive it would be to create but it seems like it would certainly increase their sales.

Durtdawber
07-04-2014, 12:15 PM
At the risk of taking this thread in a slightly different direction, but still address pricing and LHR's ability to generate operating income and profit, why not add an "output to gcode" feature?

Since Carvewright machine owners do not need this feature, a pricing structure that is favorable to machine owners could be established while selling the software product to non-machine owners at a more "profitable" level.

I would argue with anyone that the Designer software is among the most sophisticated, feature laden and easy to use CNC design software on the market to day. Imagine the profit potential that could be tapped by allowing it to be used by non-machine users. LHR could even build in features that can only be accessed by machine owners as an incentive for customers to purchase the machine/software combo instead of just the gcode version of the software.

Just a thought and I'm sure it is not an original one.

brdad
07-04-2014, 12:25 PM
A "viewer" is a good idea and would be easy to make. In fact, there already is one - it's called a trial version. I've mentioned this before without reply but IMO there is no need for the time constraints on the trial versions. The trial versions are already coded so you can't save or carve projects, so it's not like they are of any use other than to view the newer projects or to try out the software. It seems to me that disabling the time limit for trial versions would benefit both LHR and the end user. When 2.0 came out, I tried it out, it had a lot of bugs, things got busy and my time ran out. Had I been able to play with it more and see it's features when the mood struck me, I would have been more likely to buy it. I can't imagine I am the only person this happened to.

In LHR's defense, we were told we could have the trial reset so we could test it again, but once again it'd only be good for a month. So I held off not knowing when I'd have time to play with it, and then some Friday night at 10 PM I'm bored and would like to try it and don't have it available. And the next thing you know, now V3 is out.

So now I don't even want to start the V3 trial because things are hectic right now and I would like it available when the mood hits me. V4 will likely be here before I know it.

If it's a matter of having outdated trial versions working forever, then set the trial to one or two years, so there would likely be a new trial version out to replace it.

aokweld101
07-04-2014, 12:49 PM
That "viewer" program sounds like a good idea. I have no idea how hard or expensive it would be to create but it seems like it would certainly increase their sales.

I have a little something to say about the capabilities about the 1.87, the 2.007 and the 3.0 when I found out when they upgraded 2.0 it wasn't a big deal for me until I found out that I couldn't see the patterns on the forum, that made me feel like I was in a debtors prison for not being able to afford the 2.0, I finally was able to buy the 2.0. that was four months ago, now the 3.0 is out... so now the ones that still have the 1.87 can't see the patterns done on the forum with the 2.007 or 3.00 so its almost being forced to buy the upgrades just to keep up whether you need it or not. If you could see the work being done in the newer software, I to would think it would progress the sales also instead of feeling its a have to situation. I also feel that if this is the way it goes on the software I'll wait for the 4.00 comes out and save a $100.00 at that time....:grin:

TerryT
07-04-2014, 01:21 PM
I have a little something to say about the capabilities about the 1.87, the 2.007 and the 3.0 when I found out when they upgraded 2.0 it wasn't a big deal for me until I found out that I couldn't see the patterns on the forum

Actually, the patterns work regardless of your PD Version. The Mpc's, on the other hand, do not. But that isn't anything new. That is the way it has been since the beginning. I think my first version was 1.13 and it has been that way since 2007. However, with free upgrades, everyone had the latest version. I think the idea someone had of adding a screen shot to their post so even those of us who are still on version 1.86 can see it was a good one. Although the suggestion of a "viewer" sounds great I think it would be too time intensive and costly to make something that would work with all versions. In fact it may not even be possible.

I guess I got confused along the way. It seems this thread has become a general dumping ground and lost the focus of the original questions. Is this about paying for the upgrades? Or paying too much for the upgrades? Or is it more that some folks don't feel they were treated fairly when it came to purchasing V2 just before the release of V3? Or are we concerned about what appears to be an abandonment of support for previous versions?

Maybe we should close this threat and start fresh with specific questions in separate threads.

henry1
07-04-2014, 01:31 PM
I have a little something to say about the capabilities about the 1.87, the 2.007 and the 3.0 when I found out when they upgraded 2.0 it wasn't a big deal for me until I found out that I couldn't see the patterns on the forum, that made me feel like I was in a debtors prison for not being able to afford the 2.0, I finally was able to buy the 2.0. that was four months ago, now the 3.0 is out... so now the ones that still have the 1.87 can't see the patterns done on the forum with the 2.007 or 3.00 so its almost being forced to buy the upgrades just to keep up whether you need it or not. If you could see the work being done in the newer software, I to would think it would progress the sales also instead of feeling its a have to situation. I also feel that if this is the way it goes on the software I'll wait for the 4.00 comes out and save a $100.00 at that time....:grin:

Well said I will wait now

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 03:04 PM
Screen shots also help those of us on Tapatalk.

JLT
07-04-2014, 04:26 PM
Been a while since I've posted... check in once and a while, and this thread seems to be a repeat of when Designer 2.0 came out...


My $0.02...


Like it or not, software costs money up front to build, and money along the way to sustain and enhance. Period.


I'm in the software business, supporting business systems integration. For the system I'm working on, we have integrated nearly 100 products from various vendors, and nearly *all* of them have a similar pricing and configuration management model, which produces stable software for customers and a good working relationship. (For us, a stable company is very important, as having to change software and re-integrate another vendors component is an expensive proposition.) And a large part of company stability is predictable revenue stream. Basically, the companies offer a base product, and various add-ons, exactly like LHR. But, after you buy the base product, in order to receive patches, upgrades, and technical support for bugs, nearly *all* software companies charge an annual fee of ~15% of the base price. So, if Designer is assessed at $200, then you pay, say, $30/yr, and receive any and all bug fixes and upgrades for that product as they become available, plus technical support for bugs. If you had bought the DXF Importer add on for $100, then the yearly fee for that add on, would be, say $15...


This then enables the software company to more easily deprecate prior versions, since as a customer, if you opt out of the annual maintenance fee, you are stating that you don't wish to stay current, but will potentially buy back in at a time of your choosing. Ie, if you don't pay a few years worth of annual fees, and, say, you upgrade to Windows 8, but the old version doesn't support Windows 8, then if you want the latest version of the company's software, generally you have to pay the full base price again to get current, or some companies let you pay the back annual fees plus a nominal "penalty". Or, as a customer, you can chose not to upgrade to Windows 8, and stick with the older (potentially unsupported) version of the company's software. In this model, LHR then can stand on firm ground and deprecate older versions, and you as the customer have the latest bug fixes and enhancements...


As it is now, LHR will be supporting to some extent numerous code bases for Designer (ie, 1.187, 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, etc), and this will continue to grow as this software revenue model continues. This also introduces for LHR a greater number of configuration management items. Eg, the DXF importer now has to work for all versions of Designer, as will Conforming Vectors, etc, and then multiply this against the multitude of operating systems supported. Without being able to deprecate software, the configuration management overhead of this inter-component compatibility matrix will potentially become quite burdensome for the developers, and the incompatibility issues seen on the forum (ie, "can you down save the designer file to 1.187?") will continue to raise the ire of the customer base, which is to no one's benefit...


Additionally, with a stable income generated from annual fees, a software company can more easily plan enhancements based on customer requests, and supporting bug fixes is no longer seen as an inhibitor to the current revenue model that LHR employs, which requires the developers to constantly create new software to generate the necessary revenue to maintain the necessary support staff...

R, Jon

aokweld101
07-04-2014, 05:20 PM
I'm not complaining about the price I'll buy it in time but don't know when.... the problem is not seeing what is done on the forum to learn the program and to see if its something that I might have the need for!!!

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 05:57 PM
I am always amazed at ppls perception of what size LHR is.

Metallus
07-04-2014, 08:03 PM
need to employ an experienced S/W engineer/developer

I take great offense to this.

I don't know you, and you sure as hell don't know me, or the other s/w engineer.

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 08:46 PM
Jack you are by far crossing the line here. You need to stop.

Digitalwoodshop
07-04-2014, 08:48 PM
Jack,

It is time to move on. The CW is not for you.

AL

aokweld101
07-04-2014, 08:53 PM
This is the last I'm talking about the 3.0 program or the price, I think that LHR has done a fabulist job on giving the choice of add on's and developing the software we all have the choice of which software we want or need... I have made friends on this forum and learned a lot though its members we all have our opinions, but in the opinions I see no reason to belittle another member I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do understand.... Respect.....

blhutchens
07-04-2014, 09:00 PM
This is the last I'm talking about the 3.0 program or the price, I think that LHR has done a fabulist job on giving the choice of add on's and developing the software we all have the choice of which software we want or need... I have made friends on this forum and learned a lot though its members we all have our opinions, but in the opinions I see no reason to belittle another member I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but I do understand.... Respect.....

Amen brother!!!!!! I feel sorry for Jack when he tries to get support or parts after he's made an arse of himself.

Don't think he realizes LHR is a small company that sells software among other things (just people trying to make a livin)

Brent

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 09:10 PM
You may state your opinion, but you may NOT be offensive to employees.

ladjr
07-04-2014, 09:52 PM
I have not commented on this yet, however as I was always self employed and had my own business for over 40 years. A company create a product and determines the highest price he can sell it for. If they are to high they lower the price. But if a company doesn't market their product at a profit they will eventually close. I'm concerned that 2.XXX may not be supported now, after only one year. I mean this is only for operational problems which I currently don't know of any. Should LHR have told everyone about the new product maybe, but again that was their business decision. If they had I think more of us would have tried harder to go to the Convention. My last comment is, remember the employees we who are posting here did not set the price or determine the policy. So don't take it out on them.

Now I have a question if anyone is still reading this and talking to me. Will Version 3.XX allow me to Import or open V-Carve files.

Metallus
07-04-2014, 09:59 PM
Will Version 3.XX allow me to Import or open V-Carve files.

if you're talking about a *.CRV file, no. It's a proprietary format.

I don't use vcarve pro, so I don't know what other formats it can save in. We can import STL files with the STL importer add-on, if vcarve pro saves in that format.

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 10:00 PM
You can use the drawing tools to create you vector or if you have DXF Importer add-on, use that to import your vectors. Either way.

lynnfrwd
07-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Nevermind. Metallus answered my question.

ladjr
07-04-2014, 11:49 PM
Thanks for the answer on vcarve. I just have seen a lot of projects in that format, and hope to use them

Metallus
07-05-2014, 07:02 AM
I said STL, I meant DXF.... those are our only importers, besides PNG.

Capt Bruce
07-05-2014, 10:00 AM
During the Conference Joe Lovchik was good enough to give a demonstration on the big screen of importing a Vector pattern design by VectorClip3D of the Scottish MacKenzie Clan seal using DFX Importer and then the new vector carving capability of Designer Ver. 3. I think all who saw that demo would agree it was clean and neat and fully rendered the variable line thickness of the imported vectors just like Centerline using a V carving bit.

The DFX Importer combines easy checking to make sure all the elements in a pattern are closed vector shapes (200 in this case) and lay them out on your virtual board. Then the Designer Ver. 3 Vector Carving system allows you to ensure these elements are not crossing or too close together. Finally it allows you to select some, all or alternating vectors to be carved so you can fine tune just how you want the final carving to look. That combination was enough to convince me I want these new features so I'm buying in both to carve my own Vector designs and those available out there in the market and the web. Each of us must choose the tools we want just like the woodworking tool decisions we all make for our shops.

Here is the MacKenzie pattern DFX simply imported but not yet tuned up using Ver 3. In this pattern every line is carved where in Ver 3 the shapes outlined by the closed vector shapes would create elements that vary in line width and depth or a true vector carving. Planning to be on-line with this Monday morning after I order. Just my 2 cents worth Team.

70401

Mikewiz
07-05-2014, 12:32 PM
This may sound like a dumb question but, how do you get the DFX importer? I don't see it at Carvwright's website as an add-on.

blhutchens
07-05-2014, 12:37 PM
This may sound like a dumb question but, how do you get the DFX importer? I don't see it at Carvwright's website as an add-on.

try here http://store.carvewright.com/home.php?cat=400

liquidguitars
07-05-2014, 12:58 PM
OT... Our happy Highlander crest state's " BUAIDH NO BAS"

lynnfrwd
07-05-2014, 01:25 PM
"Victory or death" also "to conquer or die"

lynnfrwd
07-05-2014, 01:29 PM
Luceo non uro "I shine, not burn"

liquidguitars
07-05-2014, 01:47 PM
I like to say some positive things about the software coming off a 3D background.

Since 2.0 I been trying to focus on building in Designer and not the more expensive 3D tools like Maya overall I can say that the software is one of the most powerful tools I used. Just the fact that the software makes smooth fillets is amazing. The STL exporter works well with Lightwave and zBrush and the finished objects are Cam ready. it just gets better and more powerful as they add options. The firmware gets better and better, I can not remember the last time I wasted a good piece of wood due to a z plunge so hats off to Metaulls for a outstanding job! with the programing Department team members.




Is the software 100% perfect? No software is but we are able to let our imagination fly without to much pain. :)

Here is a small example what can be done with 2.0 and 3.0 from a rapid prototype point of view.

One job could make all the upgrades logical.

70412

Ton80
07-06-2014, 09:19 AM
Cause we resolve our issue here on the forum one way or another... BUT,,, You guyz couldn't have told me to wait a couple weeks ??? Yeah Just a couple weeks .... What kind of customer service is that ?? Full well knowing that your releasing a new version but you still sold me the out dated version ... And we had several e-mail exchanges and phone calls during that time !!!! I would never do something like this to one of my customers... If I got new and better material coming in ,, I would tell em and let em know ... And offer a good discount if I was using the older material if they couldn't wait ...

This seems to be the stinging point on this whole subject. Not the price but the fact that a simple mention of the new version coming just around the corner would possibly be the better upgrade path.

Maybe we all learned something here. Upgrade early and not near the conference date would be the lesson for the CW owner. For LHR, maybe an announcement can be made that also lets users know when the new version is near release. That seems like a gesture that should have been made in this case and one I would make to a customer of mine if I knew it would save them a little money but still make me money in the end. I can see how one would feel taken advantage of based on the supposed events in the quoted message above.

TerryT
07-06-2014, 10:36 AM
This seems to be the stinging point on this whole subject. Not the price but the fact that a simple mention of the new version coming just around the corner would possibly be the better upgrade path.

Maybe we all learned something here. Upgrade early and not near the conference date would be the lesson for the CW owner. For LHR, maybe an announcement can be made that also lets users know when the new version is near release. That seems like a gesture that should have been made in this case and one I would make to a customer of mine if I knew it would save them a little money but still make me money in the end. I can see how one would feel taken advantage of based on the supposed events in the quoted message above.

Seems to me there are CW users that would not and did not buy version 2 because of the cost. Those same users will probably not buy V3 either, for the same reason. If LHR had put V2 on sale (a good sale) a couple of weeks before V3 release some of those lost sales could have been salvaged generating more income. Those new buyers, knowing what the deal was, would feel like they got a good deal and not like they were being taken advantage of. Most of this issue could have been avoided and maybe more income made.
Again.... just thinking out loud.

lynnfrwd
07-06-2014, 11:01 AM
It had its lowest price in may. $170

SteveNelson46
07-06-2014, 12:55 PM
In my humble opinion, most of the underlying issues here about new versions and add-ons is really about principles. To me, it's really simple. If you want to "shoot yourself in the foot" to make a point then by all means don't buy anything. I found out, a reasonably short time ago, that whining about the cost and/or whether it really should be free will only change how you are perceived. It's very clear that LHR has thought this through and will not change their policy because of a few complainers. Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Smoken D
07-06-2014, 04:08 PM
Seems to me there are CW users that would not and did not buy version 2 because of the cost. Those same users will probably not buy V3 either, for the same reason. If LHR had put V2 on sale (a good sale) a couple of weeks before V3 release some of those lost sales could have been salvaged generating more income. Those new buyers, knowing what the deal was, would feel like they got a good deal and not like they were being taken advantage of. Most of this issue could have been avoided and maybe more income made.
Again.... just thinking out loud.

At times I believe 2 went on sale from $200 to $180 and in May went down to $170. That was when I had the funds and purchased 2. If I had known 3 was coming out a month later I would have waited and paid $300 for the upgrade. Now, it will have cost me an additional $200. I think that is what some are concerned about. Some of us just spent $170 and now have to spend another $200 for the 3 upgrade instead of being advised of an upcoming new feature that would have saved us a few bucks. But, as I said before, that is business for some companies.
I am a re-loader and have a Dillon loader. This small company has a NO BS Warranty. My machine is over 20 years old and if a spring breaks I call Dillon and immediately a new spring is on the way and no cost to me which includes shipping. That company is making millions off its machines.

blhutchens
07-06-2014, 04:12 PM
Anyway………
Good Product
Good Support
Good Development Team

Buy designer upgrades in July!!!!!

chief2007
07-06-2014, 04:21 PM
Well before this gets locked down, I just got 2.0 as well in May, but will wait until 4.0 comes out for my next designer up grade unless LHR runs a special for 2.0 owners to upgrade for $100 bucks (Gets LHR the $300 asking price in the long run). I would be all over it right now, but not going worry whether or not the do or they don't.

Just take it all in stride and hopefully no ones blows a head gasket over it. I am still learning/ getting caught up with all that 2.0 can do, once that is master the rest will be easy. I think I spent my money wisely for where I am at with my Carvewright machines.

I would just say this - Go out and look at the cost of other CNC software, let alone the cost of CNC machines. Carvewright is still the best bang for the buck with all that you can achieve with it.

scootertrash
07-06-2014, 04:51 PM
I like tater tots.

/My default reply to heated threads anywhere
//And seriously, who doesn't like tater tots?

unitedcases
07-06-2014, 05:43 PM
I like tater tots.

/My default reply to heated threads anywhere
//And seriously, who doesn't like tater tots?
That is a good point. I do enjoy tater tots. Sonics are pretty darn good. No ketchup required.

FWMiller
07-06-2014, 06:00 PM
Name brand tater tots are just too expensive. As soon as I splurge for the generic tater tots I go back and find the good ones on sale buy one get one free. I just can't win... ;)

unitedcases
07-06-2014, 06:38 PM
Is there a sonic nearby? A couple Chicago dogs loaded up with some tots...and one of their thousand milkshakes...can't go wrong.

SteveEJ
07-06-2014, 06:38 PM
I like Tater Salad. Tater tots is too young!

If you have heard Ron White you will know what I mean. LOL

I will study it before I buy. I do like the chip carve capabilities. Very useful and much faster than raster carving.

Complaining hurts the heart and mind. The older I get the more valuable my heart is and the less my mind works!!

Rbacak
07-06-2014, 09:54 PM
At times I believe 2 went on sale from $200 to $180 and in May went down to $170. That was when I had the funds and purchased 2. If I had known 3 was coming out a month later I would have waited and paid $300 for the upgrade. Now, it will have cost me an additional $200. I think that is what some are concerned about. Some of us just spent $170 and now have to spend another $200 for the 3 upgrade instead of being advised of an upcoming new feature that would have saved us a few bucks. But, as I said before, that is business for some companies.
I am a re-loader and have a Dillon loader. This small company has a NO BS Warranty. My machine is over 20 years old and if a spring breaks I call Dillon and immediately a new spring is on the way and no cost to me which includes shipping. That company is making millions off its machines.

I can sttest to the no BS warranty from Dillon. I broke a decapping pin (my fault) and they replaced it free anyway. Even sent me an extra pin. And this is from a company who's products are 100% American Made... (SmokinD, it was a Berdan that got me)

JDPratt
07-07-2014, 09:46 AM
I have 5 machines and currently run 2.x and 1.187. I tend to procrastinate when it comes to doing the updates. When will be the last date which I can update my current software for free? I don't have any intentions of getting 3.0 anytime soon as it doesn't offer anything I need at this time.

The carvewrights in my shop add another dimension to the products I generate, but in the end they are just another tool among many. I am often amazed at the level of creativity that some of the users are able to come up with. That and the number of tech saavy people here is amazing.

ktjwilliams
07-07-2014, 10:42 AM
That doesn't apply ... You can use the other CNC softwares on any other CNC ... And the software has everything you need in it ... The Designer software can only be used on your CW/CC machines... You can't used the software on any other CNC nor can it use any files from it on another CNC .. You can have your opinion,, But when your gonna roll out a new product advanced notice is a general rule of thumb in any business ... Should have been advertised as part of the conference announcements ... " Hey Come See The New 3.0 " ... Several dedicated CW/CC supporters were DUPED with what I still think was an under hand thing to do ...



Well before this gets locked down, I just got 2.0 as well in May, but will wait until 4.0 comes out for my next designer up grade unless LHR runs a special for 2.0 owners to upgrade for $100 bucks (Gets LHR the $300 asking price in the long run). I would be all over it right now, but not going worry whether or not the do or they don't.

Just take it all in stride and hopefully no ones blows a head gasket over it. I am still learning/ getting caught up with all that 2.0 can do, once that is master the rest will be easy. I think I spent my money wisely for where I am at with my Carvewright machines.

I would just say this - Go out and look at the cost of other CNC software, let alone the cost of CNC machines. Carvewright is still the best bang for the buck with all that you can achieve with it.

liquidguitars
07-07-2014, 11:04 AM
That doesn't apply ... You can use the other CNC softwares on any other CNC ... And the software has everything you need in it ..

I think I would choose Designer over " program x " as in my case " program x " dose not have " everything I need "


The Designer software can only be used on your CW/CC machines... You can't used the software on any other CNC nor can it use any files from it on another CNC

I going to have to disagree on this one I am able to export a lot of cool stuff made in Designer into my large format CNC via a simple " STL pipeline" process.

DickB
07-07-2014, 11:57 AM
I going to have to disagree on this one I am able to export a lot of cool stuff made in Designer into my large format CNC via a simple " STL pipeline" process.
Very interested in that. Maybe this should be in its own thread, but can you explain how you do this?

SteveEJ
07-07-2014, 01:31 PM
This has my attention too.. Brandon, can you start a new thread with this process?

Thanks..

liquidguitars
07-07-2014, 03:46 PM
Designer people will need 2.x or 3.x the Pattern editor and the fantastic STL package.

Overall its a simple job, use "make pattern" and load into Pattern Editor, smooth filter to taste and export a STL. You now have " STL " in and saving format "STL" out.

lynnfrwd
07-07-2014, 07:00 PM
Can't it be done with 1.187? Or earliest version that supports STL export?

liquidguitars
07-07-2014, 07:58 PM
Yes 1.187 with PE and STL package will work however the new tools enable you to build more complex shapes and parts that in a way you likely to export... including the rotary jig to STL out.