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bergerud
05-08-2014, 12:31 PM
I am working on another dust collector I think I will call the Dust Rail. I am still at the stage of making the parts out of MDF, but I think I am getting close to the basic design. This one has no moving parts. It should work with any shop vac. It works with the original bit plate. It is not too "in the way" and allows an unobstructed view of the bit carving.

Soon I will make the first real prototype out of cast acyclic. I still have to work on a mounting system so it snaps in and out easily.

The rub, (there always seems to be one!) one has to drill a large hole in the aluminum casing. (Look closely at the first picture where the black tube comes in.)

Also, it will only work with the CT (or the ER20M spindles). No Rock or QC.

DocWheeler
05-08-2014, 01:00 PM
Dan,

I was considering something like that, at least the hole in the frame.
What I wanted to do was to put a hole in both sides to increase the amount of air being drawn.
Both tubes would attach to another tube that had a slot in it and was deformed to fit
tightly in the curve between the right roller and the chuck.

I did not want anything in the middle-part as the bits get away from me too often.

I also thought of sucking air out of the area just to the left of the right roller to avoid anything in the way of bit-change.

henry1
05-08-2014, 01:00 PM
Can't wait to see it finished and make one for my self hopping you put he carve out mpc but looks great should work good

aokweld101
05-08-2014, 02:15 PM
I always thought that there ought to be a better way, I think there is to much volume of air going though the dust collector and to the vacuum, I have a shop vac hooked up And it don't have the capacity to pull the air, I looked at the manly handbook and it states on page 346, paragraph 4, line 2 to use more power!!

bergerud
05-08-2014, 02:42 PM
I agree. It just does not seem right to have more horse power taking out the dust than is used to make the dust! The machine only produces a thimble full of dust a second.

fwharris
05-08-2014, 02:53 PM
Another great concept Dan, for those who do not have a standard dust collector but I still say a shop vac is not meant to be run for long periods of time.

Guessing the bit slot would have to be increased for larger bits like the 3/8" or 1/2" straight bits.

bergerud
05-08-2014, 03:55 PM
I have a mini shop vac that has run for hundreds of hours. They only cost $30 so "who cares"? Use grandma's old Electrolux! This is a hobby machine and most garages do not have a large DC system.

As for the larger bits, the clear slot would be removable. There would be stray chips for sure. I think most people rarely use the router bits. The main use for a DC is the long carves with the carving bits and shorter cutting with the cutting bits. They would all fit through the slot.

I have changed my requirements for a DC. I used to think it had to get it all. My dust cap pretty well did that until the deep bits came along. (My dust cap actually has too high of a bit plate and will not work with the deep bits.) Now, I think that it is ok for a DC to leave dust on the work piece. To me, the DC now works if no dust is left in the machine.

The important point that DC builders do not seem to get is that the chips have to be physically stopped. No system with just vacuum (less than 15 lb/sq in pressure difference) can control chips flying off of a bit spinning at 20,000 rpm! The chips have to be stopped and confined. Then it takes little power to collect them.

This DC is a new concept. It is like a plane which confines the chips to the region just above the carve. Only the odd stray chips which ricochet through the slot will get to the top of the machine. I expect, in the case of deep carves, there could be considerable dust left on the board. Who knows. I have yet to give it a real try!

ekimnamyr
05-08-2014, 04:12 PM
Bergerud, I think that you are a genius,,,, You have hit the nail on the head , confine then suck em up. If a guy already has a large vac system he will have the ultimate in DC.. Hope it works in real life, I can not see why it will not..
Mike;

henry1
05-08-2014, 05:28 PM
Bergerud, I think that you are a genius,,,, You have hit the nail on the head , confine then suck em up. If a guy already has a large vac system he will have the ultimate in DC.. Hope it works in real life, I can not see why it will not..
Mike;
I seconded that motion he is one smart professor I would be his student any time

SteveNelson46
05-08-2014, 05:33 PM
Interesting design Dan. I'll be looking forward to seeing the finished project. Do you plan to post it here in the forum or sell it in the Pattern Depot?

SteveNelson46
05-08-2014, 05:44 PM
As for the larger bits, the clear slot would be removable. There would be stray chips for sure. I think most people rarely use the router bits. The main use for a DC is the long carves with the carving bits and shorter cutting with the cutting bits. They would all fit through the slot.

Maybe even a way to change the slotted acrylic piece on the fly for one with a larger slot. Just a suggestion.

bergerud
05-08-2014, 06:00 PM
Maybe even a way to change the slotted acrylic piece on the fly for one with a larger slot. Just a suggestion.

Sure, it you used the 3/8" bit a lot, you could make a piece with a wider slot. It would be thin. I just figured to take it out and let some chips fly.

I am not sure what to do with it. (If it works!)

Alan Malmstrom
05-08-2014, 06:21 PM
I think this will work pretty good. Looking forward to seeing the finished version.

Digitalwoodshop
05-08-2014, 06:57 PM
Very Interesting Design... Good Job !!!!

AL

FWMiller
05-08-2014, 11:30 PM
I love the concept. The only reason I don't have good collection yet is I want something to work on a shop vac. I tried to carve your dust shoe prototype but never finished. If this idea works I like it even more. I just can't go for running my 240V 2.5hp cyclone for 8 or more hours to carve a 24x8 inch sign. The electricity bill for one big carve might pay for my first shop vac so I don't care if I burn a few out.

fwharris
05-09-2014, 02:11 AM
I would not even begin to guess what the percentage is on the number of users who do or do not have a standard DC system for their garage or shop. I would guess though that a good number have gotten a DC system since purchasing the CarveWright. I started out with a shop vac for my system with a down draft and then my first top mount using a floor nozzle placed as close as I could get it to the surface of the board. I was very pleased with the amount of dust removed from the machine. I also noticed to keep maximum performance I had to clean my filter about every 3 to 4 hours of carve time. Adding a paper filter over the pleated filter helped with maintaining a cleaner filter and extended life of the filter. Adding separator into the mix would be a big benefit.


Your new design that is similar in concept to your shoe design of trapping the dust and chips is the correct approach for trying to get to almost total removal/containment of the dust. It is also similar to the approach used on large format CNC systems that use a skirt to trap the dust and chips in the carving area.

If the clear plate would be removable then it would be no issue for the larger bits, even the V bits for centerline/vector carves maybe.

Are the holes on the intake to help with evening out the air flow across the length of the tube? Could it also be a tapered slot?

DickB
05-09-2014, 05:07 AM
My own view based on experience with the machine is that it is more important to collect fine dust particles than chips. I agree that leaving chips on the board is not really an issue. Of course you don't want chips flying all over where they could interfere with the y and z belts, but with my top-mounted dust collector I have not had a problem with that. The volume of air from my small dust collector seems sufficient to capture the fine dust particles. I have a cyclone in front of my dust collector and a filter bag that do not need servicing until the can gets full, maybe 100 hours?

This is an interesting twist and I'm curious to see how it performs. I do use V bits often and would like to see how it works with them as well. Although you are deigning this for a vacuum I am wondering about any advantages a version designed to work with a dust collector would have (over the intake nozzle that I have now).

CNC Carver
05-09-2014, 07:40 AM
I really like the idea. I think adding a brush door stop rail to both sides sweeping on the board would help give more dust collection where you want it. Looking forward to more details on this.

bergerud
05-09-2014, 09:02 AM
Are the holes on the intake to help with evening out the air flow across the length of the tube? Could it also be a tapered slot?

Yes, the holes are to help distribute the vacuum down the manifold. (Total area of holes = vacuum hose diameter.) Even so, there is more vacuum on the left. A slot would have to be too narrow even if tapered. I just woke up this morning thinking that, if I space the holes unevenly, I could put the vacuum on the other side by the bit plate. (Damn, I may have drilled the hole on the left prematurely!)

bergerud
05-09-2014, 09:08 AM
Although you are deigning this for a vacuum I am wondering about any advantages a version designed to work with a dust collector would have (over the intake nozzle that I have now).

I think a rail like this attached to an overhead DC like the RNB could really haul all of the dust out. We will have to try it.

bergerud
05-09-2014, 09:10 AM
I really like the idea. I think adding a brush door stop rail to both sides sweeping on the board would help give more dust collection where you want it. Looking forward to more details on this.

Of course. Look at the last picture of the bottom. Those slots are for the brushes. (I was trying to think of a way to have a sliding brush for the side of the board.)

fwharris
05-09-2014, 10:33 AM
Yes, the holes are to help distribute the vacuum down the manifold. (Total area of holes = vacuum hose diameter.) Even so, there is more vacuum on the left. A slot would have to be too narrow even if tapered. I just woke up this morning thinking that, if I space the holes unevenly, I could put the vacuum on the other side by the bit plate. (Damn, I may have drilled the hole on the left prematurely!)


Yes I would think there would be more vacuum right at connecting point of the nozzle. Moving it to the center might help to balance it out.

I was going to say something about the side you had the hook up, but it was going to be more directed at the static discharge concerns with the keyboard components being on that end of the machine. I would suggest doing on the bit plate side just to reduce the possibilities.

fwharris
05-09-2014, 11:04 AM
I think a rail like this attached to an overhead DC like the RNB could really haul all of the dust out. We will have to try it.


Well put your engineering mind to work on that idea! ;) :D It would for sure suck the surface clean even on deep carves possibly. It would also be a great fitting for those doing the corian and acrylic carves.

bergerud
05-09-2014, 11:06 AM
Yes I would think there would be more vacuum right at connecting point of the nozzle. Moving it to the center might help to balance it out.

I was going to say something about the side you had the hook up, but it was going to be more directed at the static discharge concerns with the keyboard components being on that end of the machine. I would suggest doing on the bit plate side just to reduce the possibilities.

Putting the nozzle in the middle puts it in the way. I do not like that. As for static, I have never had much of a problem with that. I think that comes more with the high volume flow. I do, however, agree that the vacuum being away from the keypad can only be a good thing. (Cyclones and vacuums can be on the right side of the machine.) Other reasons are that 1) the manifold can be a little shorter, 2) that annoying vestigial "cube" in the casting on the left side interferes with the ellow, 3) there are other possibilities as to a "way out" of the machine on the right side, 4) there can be better control of the pressure distribution and flow rates in the manifold. (I get to put fewer holes on the side of the manifold which does not get as much use and bigger holes where it does.), 5) better view of the homing area.

Floyd, you should think about how you could attach something like this rail to your DC. It might solve the acrylic carving problem. Along with some other attachments (like covers), it might help with the rotary jig problem.

Edit: It seems we think alike!!

fwharris
05-09-2014, 11:27 AM
Not sure if we are thinking alike but very similar. Your a lot better in putting what is in your mind into a real application.

If and when I get some free time I just might look at some possibilities for doing this. I've been working on lowering the front profile at the intake end and doing so would help for fitting this up.

Digitalwoodshop
05-09-2014, 01:13 PM
Floyd, you should think about how you could attach something like this rail to your DC. It might solve the acrylic carving problem. Along with some other attachments (like covers), it might help with the rotary jig problem.

Edit: It seems we think alike!!

I am thinking along the same line... A Cover over the carving area with a slot for the bit to move back and fourth and part of the RNB collector with the side discharge...

AL

bergerud
05-09-2014, 06:37 PM
Al, you may have to get a Carvetight. Rocks are too low.

Digitalwoodshop
05-09-2014, 06:51 PM
Al, you may have to get a Carvetight. Rocks are too low.

Thanks !!!!

AL

CNC Carver
05-15-2014, 10:22 PM
Of course. Look at the last picture of the bottom. Those slots are for the brushes. (I was trying to think of a way to have a sliding brush for the side of the board.)

What about self adhesive brush attached to both board support. No extra steps to set it and it would seal the carve area at board sides

bergerud
05-15-2014, 10:30 PM
I am not sure what you mean.

I just ran a test today and chips flying up through the bit slot seems more of a problem than chips getting out the sides.

CNC Carver
05-16-2014, 08:26 AM
69505OK if sides are not a problem. I had another idea for the slot also. make it with brushes from each side like pictures.

bergerud
05-16-2014, 09:22 AM
Interesting idea. Maybe if the brushes were vertical below the slot. I think the chips which come through the slot are ricochets. I need a slow motion video to see what is really happening. More vacuum, of course, also solves the problem.

fwharris
05-16-2014, 10:15 AM
I did a quick bend up with some scrap pieces just to look at this new concept. They were not long enough to go the full length of the insert and I did not have a bend over on the sides and ends to trap the flying chips. I did turn on the DC and drop a nice hand full of saw dust over it and it was all sucked up in a flash.

Having the shield seems to force the air flow to be more off of the surface of the board instead of drawing it from all around the insert opening. I like Dick's idea of some type of brush material for enclosing the sides and ends to trap the fliers.

bergerud
05-16-2014, 11:49 AM
I have bushes as part of the design. They do not do as much as one might think for carving. The chips are fired from below the surface of the board, and so, the sides of the carving stops them. For routing and center line, the brushes will be more important.

Here are my last files for the rail and shield. Maybe you can modify the rail to fit your DC. You will have to cut out a large slot and there may not be much left. If it is of any use, here it is.

(Sorry 2.0 files)

henry1
05-16-2014, 12:20 PM
I have bushes as part of the design. They do not do as much as one might think for carving. The chips are fired from below the surface of the board, and so, the sides of the carving stops them. For routing and center line, the brushes will be more important.

Here are my last files for the rail and shield. Maybe you can modify the rail to fit your DC. You will have to cut out a large slot and there may not be much left. If it is of any use, here it is.

(Sorry 2.0 files)
Nice one burg but can't use it I haven't got the 3D software yet

bergerud
05-16-2014, 12:25 PM
Nice one burg but can't use it I haven't got the 3D software yet

I only put the flat part on for Floyd to experiment with and chop up. I am still a long way from having this thing work right.

henry1
05-16-2014, 12:34 PM
thank you for the reply and will keep an eye out for when ever

CNC Carver
05-16-2014, 01:51 PM
Bergerud are you testing a cut out so chips are falling down?


I have bushes as part of the design. They do not do as much as one might think for carving. The chips are fired from below the surface of the board, and so, the sides of the carving stops them. For routing and center line, the brushes will be more important.

Here are my last files for the rail and shield. Maybe you can modify the rail to fit your DC. You will have to cut out a large slot and there may not be much left. If it is of any use, here it is.

(Sorry 2.0 files)

bergerud
05-16-2014, 01:57 PM
Bergerud are you testing a cut out so chips are falling down?

No, I have not tested that yet. My main objective is to be able to handle those long carves.

200k
05-16-2014, 03:26 PM
Once again you are showing creativity that leaves us all beholden to you. I made a Corian version of your dust shoe. It took three carves and I still couldn't get the little 90° tube right so I went to Lowe's and bought a right angle vinyl tube connector and filed it to fit the bearing. Though I have the thing completed, I have yet to actually try it because I would have to replace the bit plate with the little Lexan one and I just haven't done it. No real excuse.
BUT, this one looks like a winner. Some thoughts I had that will echo others points and maybe be new in others.

First, the holes. You could either vary the spacing of the holes along the width to account for the friction of the air going the length of the air passage OR you could vary the size of the holes with the larger ones at the distal end. Someone with a facility in calculus could determine the optimum spacing/sizes to even things out.

Second, maybe you could attach a pair of "cover" pieces (acrylic?) on each side of the Z truck just above the acrylic slot to limit the number of ricochets. They would only have to be about 2 -3 CM wide. I'll let you sort out the technical details like attachments and such.

Third, I'm not sure about the metal looking plate because it says something in the text but doesn't show well on the photo, but...
How about beveling the underside of the acrylic slot plate so that ricochets are deflected back into the vacuum area?

Fourth, will this control the "dust" from carving Corian and Lexan? Even with a full size DC unit sucking the bejeezus out of the carve (Ringneck Blues DC), I get particles all throughout the inside of the machine when carving the plastic. When I carve wood the inside stays pristine but carving any plastic requires stopping the machine every 20-30 minutes and cleaning out things to keep the belts and tracks clear. I REALLY hope this is the solution.

And lastly, Yer killin' me here with the new software files. I have been delaying the purchase just because I haven't had the need for the newer stuff but when you post your files in 2.0x I can't open them. I would hope you could post it in 1.187 but I realize that means you have to create the entire thing over again that would be an undue imposition upon your time. I guess I will have to buy 2.0x after all. I'll be at the Conference in June. Maybe they'll have a discount.

I await your full development of this project.

200k

bergerud
05-16-2014, 03:50 PM
First, the holes. You could either vary the spacing of the holes along the width to account for the friction of the air going the length of the air passage OR you could vary the size of the holes with the larger ones at the distal end. Someone with a facility in calculus could determine the optimum spacing/sizes to even things out.


Having variable sized holes allows me to put the vacuum intake on the right side instead of the left. I had to redesign the whole thing and was just uploading the mpc when I was stopped by a bug.

I am hoping that the thing will work well with the corian and acrylic carving.

CNC Carver
05-16-2014, 08:33 PM
They have a $30 discount right now for Spring.

Once again you are showing creativity that leaves us all beholden to you. I made a Corian version of your dust shoe. It took three carves and I still couldn't get the little 90° tube right so I went to Lowe's and bought a right angle vinyl tube connector and filed it to fit the bearing. Though I have the thing completed, I have yet to actually try it because I would have to replace the bit plate with the little Lexan one and I just haven't done it. No real excuse.
BUT, this one looks like a winner. Some thoughts I had that will echo others points and maybe be new in others.

First, the holes. You could either vary the spacing of the holes along the width to account for the friction of the air going the length of the air passage OR you could vary the size of the holes with the larger ones at the distal end. Someone with a facility in calculus could determine the optimum spacing/sizes to even things out.

Second, maybe you could attach a pair of "cover" pieces (acrylic?) on each side of the Z truck just above the acrylic slot to limit the number of ricochets. They would only have to be about 2 -3 CM wide. I'll let you sort out the technical details like attachments and such.

Third, I'm not sure about the metal looking plate because it says something in the text but doesn't show well on the photo, but...
How about beveling the underside of the acrylic slot plate so that ricochets are deflected back into the vacuum area?

Fourth, will this control the "dust" from carving Corian and Lexan? Even with a full size DC unit sucking the bejeezus out of the carve (Ringneck Blues DC), I get particles all throughout the inside of the machine when carving the plastic. When I carve wood the inside stays pristine but carving any plastic requires stopping the machine every 20-30 minutes and cleaning out things to keep the belts and tracks clear. I REALLY hope this is the solution.

And lastly, Yer killin' me here with the new software files. I have been delaying the purchase just because I haven't had the need for the newer stuff but when you post your files in 2.0x I can't open them. I would hope you could post it in 1.187 but I realize that means you have to create the entire thing over again that would be an undue imposition upon your time. I guess I will have to buy 2.0x after all. I'll be at the Conference in June. Maybe they'll have a discount.

I await your full development of this project.

200k

CNC Carver
05-16-2014, 08:55 PM
2.007 version available. Hope your bug was fixed.

Having variable sized holes allows me to put the vacuum intake on the right side instead of the left. I had to redesign the whole thing and was just uploading the mpc when I was stopped by a bug.

I am hoping that the thing will work well with the corian and acrylic carving.

bergerud
05-16-2014, 09:45 PM
Yep. Good to go. I was worried I would loose the weekend (or have to go back to 2.005).

Capt Bruce
05-16-2014, 10:58 PM
I just love watching you develop ideas with collaboration here on the Forum Dan. True creativity at work and a fascinating process. Thanks for sharing this with all of us because you are inspiring creative thinking by so many.

henry1
05-17-2014, 05:43 AM
I just love watching you develop ideas with collaboration here on the Forum Dan. True creativity at work and a fascinating process. Thanks for sharing this with all of us because you are inspiring creative thinking by so many.
I have to agree with capt Bruce creativity and a fascinating process

bergerud
05-19-2014, 03:05 PM
The latest MDF mockup. I have changed the side of the out pipe from the left to the right and changed the holes sizes to be decreasing from left to right. The idea is to make the flow rate constant even though the out take is on the side. The apparatus pops in and out by hand (no tools needed).

I made some temporary "brushes" by gluing in some shop towel strips. Ready for a test.

CNC Carver
05-19-2014, 03:25 PM
Dan looking good.

unitedcases
05-19-2014, 04:24 PM
I am excited about this one. So ready to try it out. Pretty soon my parts will all be Dans projects. Er20, Y motor upgrade...ready.

RogerB
05-19-2014, 04:26 PM
Looks great .Thanks for sharing your work and ideas.

henry1
05-19-2014, 04:56 PM
The latest MDF mockup. I have changed the side of the out pipe from the left to the right and changed the holes sizes to be decreasing from left to right. The idea is to make the flow rate constant even though the out take is on the side. The apparatus pops in and out by hand (no tools needed).

I made some temporary "brushes" by gluing in some shop towel strips. Ready for a test.
Looks great and smart move ,can't wait for the result

CNC Carver
05-19-2014, 07:40 PM
This is what I'm thinking to cover slot with to adjust to all bits. Should stop all chips from flying out top. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-E-O-1-1-2-in-x-36-in-White-Plastic-Brush-Door-Bottom-Sweep-C35PH/100193136 Does anyone think the brushes would cause any trouble.

unitedcases
05-19-2014, 08:02 PM
This is what I'm thinking to cover slot with to adjust to all bits. Should stop all chips from flying out top. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-E-O-1-1-2-in-x-36-in-White-Plastic-Brush-Door-Bottom-Sweep-C35PH/100193136 Does anyone think the brushes would cause any trouble.

Good question. Would the brushes melt over time?

FWMiller
05-19-2014, 08:25 PM
If extended too far a sharp bit edge would probably catch on the bristle. Which would either trim it off like a zero clearance insert or pull it out. A zero clearance cover would be nice but you would need a way to reposition it precisely when taking out and putting back in.

bergerud
05-19-2014, 08:32 PM
I really do not think any brush would stand up long to the spinning bits.

I am into a deep carve right now. It seems that the few chips that fly through slot do so in the early part of the carve before the carved "cavity" gets under the intake slots. After that, it does not seem too bad. I am using my weakest vac for the test. Video coming soon.

bergerud
05-19-2014, 09:23 PM
Well here are the results of the first real test. It was a deep, carve through in spruce. Some dust did escape. The dust that did escape came through the slot and almost all ended up on the shelf in the front of the machine. There was virtually none on the belts or on the important parts of the machine. (There was a little which fell between the belts as the carve was through the board.)

There is certainly room for improvement. On the other hand, this may be about as good as it gets with a feeble mini shop vac. (and all those extra open holes)

http://youtu.be/zTfAxE9VnkQ

fwharris
05-19-2014, 09:28 PM
More suction!

bergerud
05-19-2014, 09:52 PM
More suction!

I know! Funny we expect perfection. We want to get it all. What other power tool can boast 99% dust collection?

FWMiller
05-19-2014, 10:11 PM
Since it comes out easy, how about masking take over the holes not over the workpiece?

bergerud
05-19-2014, 10:25 PM
Since it comes out easy, how about masking take over the holes not over the workpiece?

I thought one might do that for acrylic. Next test with a bigger vacuum.

fwharris
05-19-2014, 10:26 PM
Totally agree! I was over joyed with my first attempt with a shop vac floor attachment using a shop vac that I figured was getting maybe 60-75% of the dust. My excitement really increased with my first top mount insert with the top hook up using a dust collector and getting 80-90%. Going to the side hook up probably increased the collection up to 95%.

All of this was dependent on having a good air flow to start with and keeping the collection filter/bag clean. As it started to build up dust the amount of dust collected decreased. And of course my % numbers are just my WFG of actual results.

Your new concept/idea of trying to trap that last few percentage is on the right track if you can increase the amount of air flow at the source. Possibly moving the intake to the center of the attachment vs the end might help but still think more air flow in the real answer.

racer
05-19-2014, 10:49 PM
I for one would like to thank fwharris and bergerud for all the work they do for us on the fourm you ntwo are great for us . John

henry1
05-20-2014, 05:17 AM
Nice one , way ago berg can't wait to try it

CNC Carver
05-20-2014, 05:52 AM
That looks like you are getting 99.5%. Very impressive. I can't wait to build something similar. Thanks for sharing and what a wonderful concept. Simple and productive.

bergerud
05-20-2014, 09:33 AM
It is funny how a little dust looks bad on a clean surface. I tried to make this a worse case scenario; small vac, deep carve through, and all holes open. One of the things I like about this kind of setup is that the vacuum is nozzle is right there. As soon as the carve is finished, you pull out the board, pull off the nozzle and do a quick clean up. It seems too convenient that the small fraction of dust that gets through the slot ends up on the shelf.

I know with the higher powered shop vac (maybe the type which burn up??), there will be little escape through the slot. In special cases like deep carves, centerline, or plastic, one could also, as mentioned, tape up the unused holes. For me, I think the rail with the feeble shop vac is going to be good enough for most carves.

The main draw back of the design is that one has to drill or cut a 1.25+" hole in the head casing. This is easy to do with a hole saw but some may not feel comfortable doing this. I do not think it compromises the strength as far as normal use of the machine, but I do wonder about shipping. LHR beefed up the bases of the four posts of the C machine because of shipping problems.

CNC Carver
05-20-2014, 09:50 AM
Can the bottom piece just overlap under the front of the machine? Then it is just down to making the slot for rail, slot for bits and rail itself.

bergerud
05-20-2014, 10:01 AM
Can the bottom piece just overlap under the front of the machine? Then it is just down to making the slot for rail, slot for bits and rail itself.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. The rail part does go under the front of the machine. It has a lip which hooks under the edge.

CNC Carver
05-20-2014, 11:29 AM
OK I was thinking bit shield part under lip and vacuum rail above. I'll need to get 2.0 so I'm not guessing from pictures. I'm still using 1.87 version.

RogerB
05-20-2014, 05:41 PM
Will you be doing this in 1.87 also. Just a thought you can use velcro loop around the bottom .

bergerud
05-20-2014, 06:02 PM
Will you be doing this in 1.87 also. Just a thought you can use velcro loop around the bottom .

I do not know yet what to do with this. It would take me a day to redo it all in 1.187. From what I have seen in the past, only a small number of people would actually make it themselves. (It is one of those mysteries to me. Why people, especially CW owners, would rather buy things than make them!) So, I would rather find some way to have them made for people. Of course, every time I come up with a new dust collector, I hope that LHR will be interested.

FWMiller
05-20-2014, 07:02 PM
Well, if you find a justification for the time I will build one myself. I tried the dust shoe myself but couldn't dial in my machine good enough for the double sided carves. If not, I'll wait until I am able to upgrade to 2.0.

fwharris
05-20-2014, 07:16 PM
I do not know yet what to do with this. It would take me a day to redo it all in 1.187. From what I have seen in the past, only a small number of people would actually make it themselves. (It is one of those mysteries to me. Why people, especially CW owners, would rather buy things than make them!) So, I would rather find some way to have them made for people. Of course, every time I come up with a new dust collector, I hope that LHR will be interested.

A "plug and play" society for the most part maybe! I am working on trying to get caught up on things and carve the files you posted for me. I've scraped the idea for the time being of trying to make them out of metal. Hated the thought of things going awry and making sparks. I'd rather have a material that might not cause to many issues.

bergerud
05-20-2014, 08:05 PM
In the beginning, I was going to make the flat rail out of aluminum because I thought the acyclic might be to weak. As long as it stays in place, the bit cannot get to it under any circumstance. (Unlike the rotary jig where a y slip could put you into the aluminum.)

fwharris
05-20-2014, 09:32 PM
I was using 22 ga sheet metal and the thin strip that I cut for the side closest to the truck was kind of flimsy. I could probably double it (fold over) to get more strength.

I'm back logged right now on some piece work carvings for a local guy but seeing the light at the end of the tunnel so maybe in a couple of days I might have some time to work more on this...

henry1
05-21-2014, 11:40 AM
In the beginning, I was going to make the flat rail out of aluminum because I thought the acyclic might be to weak. As long as it stays in place, the bit cannot get to it under any circumstance. (Unlike the rotary jig where a y slip could put you into the aluminum.)
Did you try your new DC protype and did it work good

bergerud
05-21-2014, 12:45 PM
See vid in post 56.

Underdog
05-21-2014, 01:03 PM
Pretty Nifty Berg. Now I wish I had the version 2.0. Still paying off my new (to me) jointer though...

henry1
05-21-2014, 02:19 PM
See vid in post 56.
were you going to share the mpc just asking like to try it

CNC Carver
05-21-2014, 02:45 PM
Henry check post 34. But it is a 2.0 mpc


were you going to share the mpc just asking like to try it

chebytrk
05-21-2014, 04:32 PM
Curious... can a mpc be exported or saved as a ptn? Maybe ptn can be shared across Designer software?......

bergerud
05-21-2014, 06:22 PM
If I post the files on the forum, I will convert them to 1.187. I would have to convert the add on stuff to patterns anyway. The vector routes and cut outs will have to be redrawn. I did not mean to start a controversy by uploading the base plate pattern. It was only for Floyd in case he wanted to see if he could alter it to fit the RNB. Anyone else with 2.0 and the add ons required is welcome to have a look.

CNC Carver
05-22-2014, 06:56 AM
You have us excited about this dust rail. I for one think it will be a great addition to the carvewright. It should resolve issues related to sawdust.

bergerud
05-24-2014, 05:40 PM
I put together a dust rail out of acrylic and gave it a test. I was too chicken to carve my pieces of 3/4" so I carved some laminated pieces of thinner acrylic scraps. (I hate to waste the thick stuff!) I hoped to see how the dust moved through the tube. Turned out there is not enough in the tube at any time to see much.

This time I did some milling, drilling, and cut outs in MDF. Seemed to work about the same as the carving did. Some dust on the shelf and rail. (I did not tape up any holes but I did use a bigger shop vac.) The last picture is the piece straight out of the machine. A little dust left in a pocket.

Here is a video of some of the operations. You have to look closely to see the dust being sucked away.

http://youtu.be/fWk8hWlOlQg

henry1
05-24-2014, 06:12 PM
nice work berg that one is pretty neat

fwharris
05-24-2014, 07:34 PM
Looks real good. Did you have any skirting around the edges to the fliers?

bergerud
05-24-2014, 08:23 PM
I did not see anything get out under the edges. I did have a skirt in the front but not the back. MDF dust is so fine it was difficult to see what it was doing. I assume, as before, that any escape is through the slot.

bergerud
05-31-2014, 11:18 AM
Well I was just carving some MDF with the dust rail and it was disappointing. The angle that the chips were coming off put more than a few chips through the slot. Even though it was probably still getting something like 95%, it looks bad and it would accumulate into quite a mess for a long carve. More vacuum really did not help.

I am spoiled with the dust cap I have been using for a few years. In many cases, it gets it all. Even the dust shoe gets almost all of the dust. The secret is to physically stop the dust. If there is a direct escape route, it seems that dust will find it.

I put quite a bit of effort into this; I had high hopes, but it is just not good enough. Back to the drawing board.

(I would rather not post the files. They are in 2.007 and require 3D tools. If it had been successful, I would have converted the extrudes to patterns and converted all to 1.187.)

henry1
05-31-2014, 12:15 PM
Sounds like a plan. to bad it it did pan out

DickB
05-31-2014, 12:39 PM
I have thought about some kind of sliding slot in front of my top-mount dust collector nozzle, to concentrate a narrower opening where the bit is, but I haven't figured out how to do it. In your setup, would a small circular shield attached to the truck be sufficient to keep chips from flying out of the slot?

bergerud
05-31-2014, 12:56 PM
I have thought about some kind of sliding slot in front of my top-mount dust collector nozzle, to concentrate a narrower opening where the bit is, but I haven't figured out how to do it. In your setup, would a small circular shield attached to the truck be sufficient to keep chips from flying out of the slot?

That is sort of my next idea. A dust shoe like piece attached to the carriage sliding exhausting to an intake like the tube I just made. It is an idea I had before when I posted a dust shoe "helper" for the RNB.

Recall: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?22495-RingNeckBlues-Helper-Shoe&p=196610#post196610

fwharris
05-31-2014, 07:42 PM
Disappointed @ 95% :-( ! 5% fine dust and a few chips is very minimal when you look at the big picture of what the machine looks like with out any dust collection. If and when I get caught up with my work load I really do want to carve your modified mpc for the insert to see what modifications I would need and test it out. I am still on the thought that having a greater focused air flow at the source would pick up most of what you are seeing.

bergerud
05-31-2014, 09:42 PM
I am still on the thought that having a greater focused air flow at the source would pick up most of what you are seeing.

I do not think so. I tried some different things and they did not make a difference. The carve was deep so that the wider top of the bit was throwing some of the chips right out the slot. I taped the other holes - no difference. It seemed to me that these high velocity chips could only be influenced by a solid barrier. Vacuum is just not enough.

I do not think the amount of vacuum or air flow is that important if you can find a way to get the chips heading in the right direction. The amount of vacuum and flow at the elbow of my dust cap is very small. It works so well because the chips fly right at the elbow. In fact, it blows out some dust on its own without any vacuum!

Not all is lost. I did find a way to have uniform vacuum along the manifold with the vacuum connection on the side. All I need now is a way to direct the chips at it.

fwharris
06-01-2014, 11:21 AM
You are probably correct about the large chip fliers and how they seem to be propelled away from the bit. Your shoe would probably be the only system that comes close to being able to catch the majority.

SteveNelson46
06-02-2014, 12:32 AM
I think we are losing sight of the forest for the trees here. Whether you use Bergeruds Dust Shoe, his Dust Rail, Floyd's RNB DC Insert, or even Erwin's Dust Devil, 98% of the airborne dust particles are filtered and that's the stuff that is the most harmful to our lungs. If a small amount of the larger chips accumulate in the machine it is negligible IMHO. After all, we used the Carvewrijght for years with relatively few problems before any dust collection existed and I don't think there is any woodworking tool that doesn't leave at least some sawdust regardless of the collection system. However, in a perfect world...

bergerud
06-02-2014, 10:30 AM
I was not even thinking about the dust effects on humans. I hate to see dust in my machine! No one made my original dust cap and has had the experience of not seeing or dealing with dust. With my dust cap, a mini cyclone, and auto switch, I could run project after project without seeing or dealing with any dust at all. I can carve acrylic and even aluminum without shavings in the machine. (Granted, some operations of routing and deep carve throughs were not so ideal.)

Now, along come the deep bits and my dust cap does not work anymore. It has its own bit plate which is too high to fit with the long bits. I would redesign it with a lower bit plate but there is another problem. The dust cap only works if the chuck (ER20M) stays in the cap. If the chuck comes up out of the top of the cap, a swirl of chips comes with it. With the 0.8" depth range, I could keep the chuck in the cap. Now with the 2" depth range of the long bits, the chuck would have to come out of the cap.

I want a new system that works as well as the dust cap did. If I cannot get something to work, I suppose I will redesign my dust cap. The dust cap will only work with ER spindles, and so, will only work for me and a handful of others who have converted.

It may not be possible to achieve the dust free ideal that will work for everyone, but it is fun to try.

bergerud
06-08-2014, 05:57 PM
Now this is what I am talking about! I like it when I can count the chips which escape.

This is my latest test (first with the brush) of the new idea. Combining the dust shoe with the manifold. I thought I would try a centerline carve. Seems to work very well. I would say 99.9% in this test (middle picture is the state after the carve). No holes taped. I also have done a deep carve which worked well. I did have a problem with some stringy chips hanging up on the partitions between the intake holes.

It is coming along. The quality of the video seems not so good after uploading. Look closely to see the chips swirling right into the manifold when the bit plunges in.

http://youtu.be/KpFcuHj1wZk

unitedcases
06-08-2014, 06:15 PM
Now this is what I am talking about! I like it when I can count the chips which escape.

This is my latest test (first with the brush) of the new idea. Combining the dust shoe with the manifold. I thought I would try a centerline carve. Seems to work very well. I would say 99.9% in this test (middle picture is the state after the carve). No holes taped. I also have done a deep carve which worked well. I did have a problem with some stringy chips hanging up on the partitions between the intake holes.

It is coming along. The quality of the video seems not so good after uploading. Look closely to see the chips swirling right into the manifold when the bit plunges in.

http://youtu.be/KpFcuHj1wZk

Inserts? Like a router table?

bergerud
06-08-2014, 06:21 PM
Yes, inserts just pop in and out for the different bit sizes (and for the CT adapter). Same as the dust shoe.

fwharris
06-08-2014, 06:56 PM
Nice combo of both of your designs. The shoe seems to trap the flyers for the intake tube very well.

unitedcases
06-08-2014, 06:58 PM
Yes, inserts just pop in and out for the different bit sizes (and for the CT adapter). Same as the dust shoe.

So do you need to make the existing dust shoe project you made before or is that going to be a redesign as well?

bergerud
06-08-2014, 07:02 PM
No this is a redesign. No hose, no bearing, no new bit plate, no small elbow to carve. It just mounts the same way under the carriage and has a similar brush.

DickB
06-08-2014, 07:05 PM
You should enter this into the contest.

unitedcases
06-08-2014, 07:27 PM
No this is a redesign. No hose, no bearing, no new bit plate, no small elbow to carve. It just mounts the same way under the carriage and has a similar brush.

Awesome. As I finish upgrading to all er20s this would be a fantastic add on.

Digitalwoodshop
06-08-2014, 07:38 PM
Do you think it will work with a Rock? I like the video and pictures.... sort of a horse show design...

Very Nice... AND the Bit Plate plays NICE with the Shoe.... A Plus...

AL

bergerud
06-08-2014, 07:59 PM
The CT is 1/2" above the board (why, I have no idea!) and that is where the shoe fits. The Rock, I am sure, goes right down to the board. You would have to take out the insert for the bit finds and then pop it in for the carves. It might work but it would be a hassle.

Dick, I do not think this is the kind of thing is contest material. Drawing attention to the dust problem would not help sell machines. I am happy to leave the contest in your capable hands!

bergerud
06-08-2014, 08:15 PM
The shoe seems to trap the flyers for the intake tube very well.

I thought this would be a good test. Centerline sprays high velocity chips in all directions. (I saw a few big ones bounce out from the bottom of the carve when the shoe moved sideways.)

henry1
06-08-2014, 08:30 PM
Now this is what I am talking about! I like it when I can count the chips which escape.

This is my latest test (first with the brush) of the new idea. Combining the dust shoe with the manifold. I thought I would try a centerline carve. Seems to work very well. I would say 99.9% in this test (middle picture is the state after the carve). No holes taped. I also have done a deep carve which worked well. I did have a problem with some stringy chips hanging up on the partitions between the intake holes.

It is coming along. The quality of the video seems not so good after uploading. Look closely to see the chips swirling right into the manifold when the bit plunges in.

http://youtu.be/KpFcuHj1wZkReply (http://forum.carvewright.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=229860&noquote=1)
Like that ideal and the manifold did the machine cut it out

bergerud
06-08-2014, 08:48 PM
Yes Henry, the machine cut out the manifold in two halves and also the elbow in two halves. They are pretty well the same parts as earlier in this thread.

(Look back at post 83. http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?25535-Another-DC-Prototype&p=229195#post229195)

henry1
06-08-2014, 08:58 PM
berg I seen it, but your's I just saw is all in wood don't seem to be the same plan is there a way you can share with me would like to make one tomorrow looks like you use pine and looks like you put the clapper back on right the pipe mpc was not posted
like you said earlier you would post it in .187 but I do have the 2.07

bergerud
06-08-2014, 09:27 PM
It is almost the same. I make the prototypes out of MDF. They are not very strong but are fast to carve on draft. The acrylic is expensive and takes a lot longer to carve. I do not want to use acrylic until I feel I am close to the final design. I have to move the ports and make a few more small changes and so I will carve another one or two out of MDF before I even think of acrylic. One does not have to use acrylic for the manifold. One could use wood. (MDF is really not good enough.) In the end I hope to have a nicely polished acrylic so I can see the dust inside.

SteveNelson46
06-08-2014, 09:33 PM
Now this one I really like. Do you plan to sell it or post the .mpc on the forum?. I'll be your first customer.

henry1
06-08-2014, 09:42 PM
It is almost the same. I make the prototypes out of MDF. They are not very strong but are fast to carve on draft. The acrylic is expensive and takes a lot longer to carve. I do not want to use acrylic until I feel I am close to the final design. I have to move the ports and make a few more small changes and so I will carve another one or two out of MDF before I even think of acrylic. One does not have to use acrylic for the manifold. One could use wood. (MDF is really not good enough.) In the end I hope to have a nicely polished acrylic so I can see the dust inside.
Just wanted to know the manifold size and try one out and the clapper you did put it back on and will wait for your result before doing the rest

bergerud
06-08-2014, 10:13 PM
I think that I would eventually like to either sell it as a project in the Pattern Depot or have it manufactured. It is a complicated thing which is far from perfected. Will it work with the Rock? What about the scanner? What about the rotary jig? Is every bit plate the same? Will people be able to carve it with old uncalibrated machines? What problems will they have? And so no and so on.

I am a week or two away from having the files good enough post (as well as converted to 1.187). I think the smart thing for me to do is post the files and take advantage of the forum members as beta testers. This one is easier to make than the previous prototypes so I hope more members will make it. (One does have to drill a big hole in the machine for it!)

As soon as I get the parts tweaked and made myself I will work on posting them in 1.187.

unitedcases
06-08-2014, 10:14 PM
I think that I would eventually like to either sell it as a project in the Pattern Depot or have it manufactured. It is a complicated thing which is far from perfected. Will it work with the Rock? What about the scanner? What about the rotary jig? Is every bit plate the same? Will people be able to carve it with old uncalibrated machines? What problems will they have? And so no and so on.

I am a week or two away from having the files good enough post (as well as converted to 1.187). I think the smart thing for me to do is post the files and take advantage of the forum members as beta testers. This one is easier to make than the previous prototypes so I hope more members will make it. (One does have to drill a big hole in the machine for it!)

As soon as I get the parts tweaked and made myself I will work on posting them in 1.187.

I'm in.....

bergerud
06-08-2014, 10:22 PM
Just wanted to know the manifold size and try one out and the clapper you did put it back on and will wait for your result before doing the rest

Yes, the bit plate (clapper) is back on. One of the reasons people did not make the first dust shoe was because of having to change the bit plate.

None of the parts are really ready yet Henry. This is still at test of concept stage.

bergerud
06-08-2014, 10:24 PM
I'm in.....

Now there it a beta tester. If it will melt....

unitedcases
06-08-2014, 10:29 PM
Now there it a beta tester. If it will melt....

Your right. I upgraded #2 today to the er20 and tomorrow machine #3 gets the er20. Still have to carve the y upgrade for the third one. Need to make a couple spares too. I was thinking of putting one of my backups in the house to do stuff i wanted to do. Like this dust rail.

CNC Carver
06-09-2014, 06:10 AM
Sounds like you are making great headway. Looking good

55president
06-09-2014, 07:21 AM
Seems simpler and more elegant. Looking forward to making one for my machine. I have no problem drilling holes in the machine.
waiting for the files.

DickB
06-09-2014, 08:48 AM
Dick, I do not think this is the kind of thing is contest material. Drawing attention to the dust problem would not help sell machines. I am happy to leave the contest in your capable hands!Dan,
"Projects should show off the machine and software’s capabilities, as well as your own creativity and craftsmanship." I definitely think your project qualifies. Many of the projects submitted last year were decorative. You have a very useful project. And it certainly demonstrates the capabilities of the software and your mastery of it. Most power woodworking tools needed dust collection, and there are other tools such as table saws and router tables that require aftermarket dust collectors, so I don't view this as highlighting a problem with the machine, but providing a solution you can make yourself and save some $$.

ishanvile
06-09-2014, 10:03 AM
I am excited for this as well. Waiting patiently

bergerud
06-09-2014, 12:32 PM
Dan,
"Projects should show off the machine and software’s capabilities, as well as your own creativity and craftsmanship." I definitely think your project qualifies. Many of the projects submitted last year were decorative. You have a very useful project. And it certainly demonstrates the capabilities of the software and your mastery of it. Most power woodworking tools needed dust collection, and there are other tools such as table saws and router tables that require aftermarket dust collectors, so I don't view this as highlighting a problem with the machine, but providing a solution you can make yourself and save some $$.

I did send in a dust shoe last year. I did not send it specifically as a contest entry, but for them to try. I said they could take it as a contest entry if they thought it was applicable and wanted to. It was a nice one, polished up and all. Great example of CW milling. Not a word.

bergerud
07-16-2014, 12:10 PM
Sorry that I have been quiet for awhile on the dust shoe. I have been on a road trip and have not gotten to it since I have been back. It takes some effort to get back up to speed on it. I got as far as to test the concept and finalize the mpc for the shoe part.

I got a little discouraged trying to convert the mpc to 1.187. All the vector paths have to be redrawn from scratch.

I also am a little discouraged about the design. The rail design had the important feature of being easily and completely removable from the machine. If, for example, one wanted to use the probe or the rotary jig, it was easy to take it out. The shoe bolted to the carriage is not so convenient to remove.

I still have to tweak the manifold mpcs to fit the new shoe design and test carve it. I should also test it for awhile before I post it! There may be some unforeseen problems. (One I do know of is that the system can get plugged up with stringy shavings if one carves with the grain.) It does seem, so far, to work extremely well for normal or deep cross grain carving and normal vector operations.

I will get back to it. (For now I have to finish a toy box for a granddaughter. Priorities!)

SteveNelson46
07-16-2014, 12:42 PM
Sorry that I have been quiet for awhile on the dust shoe. I have been on a road trip and have not gotten to it since I have been back. It takes some effort to get back up to speed on it. I got as far as to test the concept and finalize the mpc for the shoe part.

I got a little discouraged trying to convert the mpc to 1.187. All the vector paths have to be redrawn from scratch.

I also am a little discouraged about the design. The rail design had the important feature of being easily and completely removable from the machine. If, for example, one wanted to use the probe or the rotary jig, it was easy to take it out. The shoe bolted to the carriage is not so convenient to remove.

I still have to tweak the manifold mpcs to fit the new shoe design and test carve it. I should also test it for awhile before I post it! There may be some unforeseen problems. (One I do know of is that the system can get plugged up with stringy shavings if one carves with the grain.) It does seem, so far, to work extremely well for normal or deep cross grain carving and normal vector operations.

I will get back to it. (For now I have to finish a toy box for a granddaughter. Priorities!)

Waiting with bated breath.

CNC Carver
07-16-2014, 06:02 PM
Crossing my fingers that testing works out good after you finish your toy box keepsake! You keep yourself very busy! I know your toy box will be enjoyed for many years!

Jeff

want2b
07-16-2014, 07:14 PM
Waiting like everyone for the product, good to see you have your time priority set right. thx for all you contribute.
Rick H

aokweld101
07-16-2014, 07:27 PM
I did send in a dust shoe last year. I did not send it specifically as a contest entry, but for them to try. I said they could take it as a contest entry if they thought it was applicable and wanted to. It was a nice one, polished up and all. Great example of CW milling. Not a word.
Yep.. great minds are overlooked.... I would like to see the finished product also.. it's great you have your priorities strait wouldn't want to get the miss upset ...:wink:

bergerud
07-16-2014, 07:54 PM
Yep.. .. it's great you have your priorities strait wouldn't want to get the miss upset ...:wink:

True that!

ktjwilliams
07-29-2014, 11:19 AM
Hey Dan,,, Grand Kids First !!! Hope ya had a good trip .... I know it can be hard to get back into the swing of things after a nice trip ...

Kevin

CNC Carver
08-19-2014, 01:27 PM
Dan any more testing on this prototype? Did you get those toy boxes finished? I'm sure they turned out great!

bergerud
08-19-2014, 10:59 PM
I have done very little carving or testing lately. I did finish the toy box. Waiting for granddaughters to paint the Peter Rabbit carvings on it. Will post when done.

ktjwilliams
08-20-2014, 09:03 AM
So Dan you been slacking !!! Hmmmm,,, 3 demerits for that ...

55president
09-18-2014, 08:54 AM
Getting ready to start a new body of work and want to get a handle on all of the dust that my machine generates, I do have 2 dust collectors but they do not really do the job.... Looking for a better solution.....

FXP

unitedcases
09-18-2014, 09:07 AM
Getting ready to start a new body of work and want to get a handle on all of the dust that my machine generates, I do have 2 dust collectors but they do not really do the job.... Looking for a better solution.....

FXP
What kind of dust collector are you using? I have a 2hp grizzly and did the upgrade thru Penn state for the pleated filter and a world of difference. I run 3 machines at one time now with no problem. Ringneck blues dc inserts on all of them.

55president
09-18-2014, 09:39 AM
I made my own and it's not much different than the ringneck I bought. when you say you did a upgrade to your grizzley, i'm not sure waht you mean. I'm not familiar with the grizzley.

Digitalwoodshop
09-18-2014, 11:47 AM
The Bag filters on some collectors can be replaced with a paper filter and yes, a big difference....

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/filtration.html

unitedcases
09-18-2014, 12:10 PM
AL nailed it. Sorry I didn't get back in time.

CNC Carver
10-15-2014, 03:50 PM
Dan any updates on this prototype?

bergerud
10-15-2014, 04:02 PM
Sorry but I have not gotten back to it. I will someday!! I was not happy with the shoe addition. Even though it worked well, I wanted the system to be easily removable and now the shoe is bolted on.

dehrlich
10-15-2014, 04:47 PM
Just thought I would throw this out there. Years ago I picked up one of those remote control on/off relays that are made for Christmas lights. I thought huh, I wonder if this would work on my dust collector. I tried it and indeed it works. I have been using the same one for a couple years now, still works fine. Plenty of power flow and the remote works from a good distance away, can turn on or off from inside my house. I'm sure the electricians among us will say it's a bad idea, but I haven't had a problem. And for the price compared to controllers made for the purpose, it's worth it.

DickB
10-16-2014, 09:02 AM
Just thought I would throw this out there. Years ago I picked up one of those remote control on/off relays that are made for Christmas lights. I thought huh, I wonder if this would work on my dust collector. I tried it and indeed it works. I have been using the same one for a couple years now, still works fine. Plenty of power flow and the remote works from a good distance away, can turn on or off from inside my house. I'm sure the electricians among us will say it's a bad idea, but I haven't had a problem. And for the price compared to controllers made for the purpose, it's worth it.
Dust collectors typically draw more current than Christmas lights. Just make sure that the remote switch's current rating is adequate.

rbrown
10-17-2014, 01:09 PM
Totally agree! I was over joyed with my first attempt with a shop vac floor attachment using a shop vac that I figured was getting maybe 60-75% of the dust. My excitement really increased with my first top mount insert with the top hook up using a dust collector and getting 80-90%. Going to the side hook up probably increased the collection up to 95%.

All of this was dependent on having a good air flow to start with and keeping the collection filter/bag clean. As it started to build up dust the amount of dust collected decreased. And of course my % numbers are just my WFG of actual results.

Your new concept/idea of trying to trap that last few percentage is on the right track if you can increase the amount of air flow at the source. Possibly moving the intake to the center of the attachment vs the end might help but still think more air flow in the real answer.

I do a lot of particle board routing for smoke shop shelving and it doesn't make chips... it makes dust... So I used to have to clean out the shop vac twice for every 6' board.

My DC is a home made one. It's flat 1/8" Plexiglas that fits flush to the top of the top "tray" above the roller. (where the door closes. I bypassed the safety switches and took mine off.) There is a about 1/4 inch gap before it dips down over the rollers with a 2" 45 degree shop vac adapter attached in the center and as close to the front where the door closes, as the mounting holes in the adapter would allow and then goes 1/8' past the the bottom roller cover. I use the two screw holes in the top tray and spacers to get the gap. I used a contour gauge on it to make it match all the turns and bends on the sides of the top tray Then I super glued a flat piece at 90 degrees down to 1/8 inch off the board. You need to notch that piece for the bit touch arm. (side view... it looks like an "L")

I use a 6.5 hp craftsman blower / vac. I made a 20 Gal. trash can thien baffle (google Phil Thien.) and now I only need to clean out the shop vac filter after every 4th board. And I have minimal clean up after running a board. It get about 95% of the dust off the board.