Y-Bearings

[flemingswoodworks]

I noticed a click and than a complete stop on my Y motor..So I replaced the outside bearing,Y/Z Drive Gear/Pulley Combination Assembly,and the Y-Drive Belt Tensioner Assembly..

everything seemed to move free and smooth, so I put the motor back on the machine with the belt and it would move one direction only, so i'm thinking maybe a internal bearing? Not sure if I should

try to do it my self or just buy a new one.

[bergerud]

What do you mean by "the outside bearing"? There are two bearings on the Y Gear/Pulley. The inside one is the one that goes first. Did you take the Gear/Pulley right out and replace both bearings?

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Y Motor sits in a U shape frame slot and can rub if not centered....

AL

[flemingswoodworks]

@ bergerud by outside bearing i mean the bearing under the Y/Z Drive Gear/Pulley Combination Assembly the Only bearing on the "outside" of the Ymotor ,i'm not sure how to get the other bearing out.with out causing any further problems

@ AL doesn't seem to rub and seems to be centered .

[bergerud]

There are two bearings on the gear. It seems strange to me that you would only replace one. Did the Y motor pack turn smoothly after you put it back together? Did the carriage move smoothly when the belt was off?

Another possibility for the resistance moving in the y direction could be the belt clamp behind the carriage. If it is not hooked properly before it is clamped to the belt, it can rub. Look for scratches in the black paint behind the carriage.

[flemingswoodworks]

I DID say I didn't know how to get the other bearing out, that would explain the "only replacing the one", I don't know how to get the other one out,or I would have done that as well. everything else on the machine moves as it should without the y on, no marks or hang ups, when I put the y in place it moves fine , as soon as i put the belt on it moves to the right fine but when you try to move it to the left it won't budge..if you take the belt off it moves fine again...

[fwharris]

I DID say I didn't know how to get the other bearing out, that would explain the "only replacing the one", I don't know how to get the other one out,or I would have done that as well. everything else on the machine moves as it should without the y on, no marks or hang ups, when I put the y in place it moves fine , as soon as i put the belt on it moves to the right fine but when you try to move it to the left it won't budge..if you take the belt off it moves fine again...

You might have to tap the back bearing out from the front side. This can be done with a small punch placed on the inner race of the bearing.

[bergerud]

I DID say I didn't know how to get the other bearing out, that would explain the "only replacing the one", I don't know how to get the other one out,or I would have done that as well.

Sorry, it is just that as I remember, the first one is the hard one to get out. After one is out, the other one is easy.

How does the Y motor drive turn over by hand? Pull the pulley sideways as you turn it.

[flemingswoodworks]

turns easy by hand, if I take the front piece off with the plastic gear and put that on the machine by itself and attach the belt, it works perfect..as soon as i attach the motor to it, it locks up...I think

this is something I shouldn't mess with, I should probably play it safe and buy a replacement .

[bergerud]

I know what the problem is! The end of the brass gear on the motor is hitting the machine casing. The brass gear protrudes a little from the gearbox and has to fit in a slot machined into the machine casing. If you mount the gearbox too low, the brass gear will hit. Raise the Y motor up a little in the screw slots.

Edit: I mean raise the whole Y motor pack up in the mounting slots.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The 2 inner bearings come out each face side as there is a LIP inside.

Don't forget about that U shaped frame.....

And more than once I have found a FROZEN Roller Rail Bearing....

AL

[flemingswoodworks]

Thank everyone, I think i'm going to order a new one, I think this is out of my range to fix, it will probably be much easier to just replace it
Thanks again

[bergerud]

Did you try and mount the Y motor pack higher in the slots? I really think that could be the problem. (With the Y motor pack out, you might see where the gear has worn through the black paint at the bottom of the slot.)

[flemingswoodworks]

Did you try and mount the Y motor pack higher in the slots? I really think that could be the problem. (With the Y motor pack out, you might see where the gear has worn through the black paint at the bottom of the slot.)
yes I tried it and still had the same problem

[bergerud]

Thanks for the reply. Too bad we could not get this one figured out.

[unitedcases]

I'm late to the party but I almost think you set the tension a bit too tight when you put the Y pack back together. Where the cog actually meshes with the motor gear. If you set it real close when you put it back together then when you set the overall Y tension it's way too tight too move. Just a thought.

[allenjones]

Anyone have the Y bearing size for the larger bearing and a good source. I have the smaller bearing just need the larger bearing that's in the newer y motor gearbox. Thanks


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[bergerud]

Why would you need the large bearing? If you have the new gearbox with the bigger bearing, the 250 hour bearing replacement should not be required. The bearings really should last much longer.

I made my own gearboxes with larger bearings and do not ever plan to replace them.

[mtylerfl]

He doesn't have the new gearbox. He wants to replace the bearing in his old one, but use a larger bearing.

I dont know a size or source for those either.

[bergerud]

He doesn't have the new gearbox. He wants to replace the bearing in his old one, but use a larger bearing.

I dont know a size or source for those either.

I thought he had the newer gearbox. It would have the original small bearing in the rear and the larger bearing in the front I think. (There was no room in the rear for a larger bearing.)

[allenjones]

I have the newer y gearbox. They wear out just as fast as the old gearbox. Just ordered two new gearboxes. Its shame we can not order the gear box shaft only. I run my machines 8 hours a day. 6 days a week. Just received the new y box took it apart so I can make a few of the shafts. The metal they use is not heat treated that is why they wear. I going to get the measurements and make them and then heat treat them. I have 6 old y boxes that need this part. Once I make a few and test for wear then they will be for sale. I'm just looking for a supplier for the large bearing. I have gave CW way to much money replacing the y box. Time to make money on rebuilding them. I'm a machinist of 40 years. I have ordered the metal once it comes I'll be turning them. I have a small heat treat machine. Time to put it to use. I need to buy another Carvewright to cut out some of my hours. But this issue has got me looking at different machines that are faster and larger.


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[bergerud]

Strange that the new gear boxs should wear out as fast as the old ones did. What is the number or size of the bigger bearing? Was it the bigger bearing that wore out or the small one in the back?

[rmock]

I have had the new bearings wear out also, have not had the shafts on the gear wear but do have a couple that I cannot get the bearings off of. Would be nice if CW would sell a rebuild kit (bearings and gear) instead of just the whole y pack. I will still rebuild at 250 hrs. bearings may not be shot but I would rather take the 20 or 30 minutes and a couple dollars in parts to rebuild the y & z than wait for a failure on a long carve. we run 3 machines with a 4th on pm / standby. By rotating machines out and doing pm we rarely have a failure or issue while carving and most issues are caught by doing a thorough checkout and test run after doing pm.

[bergerud]

Now I am really curious to know the sizes of the new bearings. I assume the inside bearing is the same as the old one: 5mm X 11mm X 5mm (685).

(The bearing I used for the outside in by improved gearbox was 5mm X 16mm X 5 mm (625). recall the post" http://forum.carvewright.com/showthr...765#post220765 (http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?24819-Y-Gear-Box-Modification&p=220765#post220765))

[allenjones]

The new gearbox small bearing is the same size. On my last fail the larger bearing looks fine. But the shaft wore the same as the old gearbox. That's why I'm going to try a heat treat on them. The bearing could be bad on the inside. I gave the new bearing to a friend that has a source. I'll let you know what he finds. I use to work for a Auto parts maker. We made transmissions for BMW and Kia. We heat treated the BMW shaft no failures. On the Kia Shaft to save cost. Kia would not pay to heat treat them. I've seen them returned with wear from the bearings. I don't know if heat treating them is the answer but I'm going to try. I'm still going to change the bearing when I do my pm. Maybe start changing every 100 hours before wear starts. I love my CW machines, but I'm going to find the answer for this problem. I'm glade I have my metal working lathe and mill. I do a lot of old tractor parts for people that restore old tractors. I might try to machine the gearbox like you did but with aluminum.


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[meiko728]

we are having an issue where the wheel is " wobbling" the shaft and bearing look fine. It just has alot of play in it and just am not sure how to fix it. CW said to buy a new y pack. We have only had the machine 3 months, not near 250 hours yet. Any advice at all?

[bergerud]

How can the gear wheel be wobbling if the shaft and bearings are ok? Where is the play coming from?

[meiko728]

Not really sure. The ring was bent up, and looked like everything was crooked. Realigned but there is still play in the wheel. Not really sure where the play is from? I just mean they dont look worn.

[meiko728]

Trying to figure out how I can upload a video as well
84860

[bergerud]

I believe you have the newer y gearbox which most of us have not yet had a good look at. Some good pictures of the parts would be awesome. (We have been wondering what number on the big bearing is.)

[allenjones]

I believe you have the newer y gearbox which most of us have not yet had a good look at. Some good pictures of the parts would be awesome. (We have been wondering what number on the big bearing is.)

I had a local machine shop make me some metal shafts where the bearings wore the shaft down. So I have rebuilt 4 of my Y motors they are working great. I never had time to make them myself. They are a little pricey $45 dollars. I would love to find a few of the used plastic gears. They are easy broken in the process of rebuilding. I guess $45 is better then $90. The machine shop will do my next order cheaper sense he has the blueprint now. Carvewright should make the gears available. I am still trying to find out the large gear size on the newer Y gear boxes. My 3 machine run 8 hour a day 5 days a week or more. The large bearings don’t have a marking on them. Wonder Why? I am still using the bearings it’s just a matter of time before they go bad. If anyone has the size let me know I would also buy some used plastic gears from someone. Once my machine have run there life I will be going to a better machine. Carvewright does not offer replacement parts.
IT’S A SHAME WE HAVE TO REPLACE THE WHOLE GEARBOX BECAUSE ONE PART WENT BAD........THAT BAD BUSINESS PLUS A LOT OF PARTS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ANYMORE.


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[Digitalwoodshop]

I bought some 5 mm shafts on eBay and some 5 mm Stop rings cheap. Going to try that.

I bet you can flip the shafts end for end if they wear thin for another cycle.

This can be done cheap... I will fast track this on my work list... I have a bunch of worn gear shafts.

I think we can fix our own gearboxes for less than 5 bucks....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-Helicopter-100mm-x-5mm-stainless-steel-Ground-Shaft-Round-Rod-5Pcs/172695813738?epid=2113612529&hash=item283578fe6a:g:ylMAAOSw8lpZJ~Tt

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Drill-Bit-Shaft-Depth-Stop-Collars-Ring-5mm-Woodworking-Wood-Drills/142001953465?epid=889703079&hash=item210ff9dab9:g:JRkAAOSwH6lXQmqi

[allenjones]

I bought some 5 mm shafts on eBay and some 5 mm Stop rings cheap. Going to try that.

I bet you can flip the shafts end for end if they wear thin for another cycle.

This can be done cheap... I will fast track this on my work list... I have a bunch of worn gear shafts.

I think we can fix our own gearboxes for less than 5 bucks....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-Helicopter-100mm-x-5mm-stainless-steel-Ground-Shaft-Round-Rod-5Pcs/172695813738?epid=2113612529&hash=item283578fe6a:g:ylMAAOSw8lpZJ~Tt

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Drill-Bit-Shaft-Depth-Stop-Collars-Ring-5mm-Woodworking-Wood-Drills/142001953465?epid=889703079&hash=item210ff9dab9:g:JRkAAOSwH6lXQmqi

That looks interesting keep us updated.


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[Digitalwoodshop]

That looks interesting keep us updated.


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I agree, it's just a standard 5 mm shaft with 2 end keepers... No need for a expensive Machine Shop Shaft.

AL

EDIT by AL..... WRONG..... It is a STEP Shaft thicker under the plastic.... Wrong again AL... .

[bergerud]

I do not see how a straight 5 mm shaft will work out so well. The original part steps up to a little over 1/4" to press into the gear.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I did not know that.... Looks like we are back to the $45.00 shaft. :)

Can you measure the thickness of the thick area of the shaft please?

EDIT: Just found a new one and enough of the thicker part is sticking out that I can measure it...

It's .25 inches or about 6.4 mm.

thanks,

AL

[bergerud]

The step on this one is 6.55mm (0.258"). A 1/4" shaft loosely slides right through.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The step on this one is 6.55mm (0.258"). A 1/4" shaft loosely slides right through.

Thank you. The piece sticking out is likely tapered slightly at the transition to 5 mm that is why I am seeing .25.

Thanks,

AL
Anyone still at the Conference that can pitch the idea to Joe to bring back the Fix for the Y Gearbox. The MWM A2073 Y Gear/Pulley Combo Assembly that sold for $6.00 each way back in 2011..... H E L P :)
Even at $12.00 I would buy it...

[Digitalwoodshop]

Talked to Connie today as a followup to the email I sent her to pitch the idea to Jow. She passed my eMail to the Boss. The short answer is that they will not offer the part.

We tried...

So for the Forum Members it is more important than ever we stick to a Preventive Maintenance Schedule and replace the "Y" Bearings inside the gearbox in a timely manor.

AL

[bergerud]

What I would like to known is: do the new gear boxes with the larger bearing still need the same maintenance?

Has anyone had these new bearings fail yet??

[Digitalwoodshop]

What I would like to known is: do the new gear boxes with the larger bearing still need the same maintenance?

Has anyone had these new bearings fail yet??

I thought I saw a post here and yes someone said they had a new bearing gearbox fail... I think we followed it up with a "Pictures Please" and no response.

So I am not sure if that person just thought that a "Legacy" Replacement "Y" Motor with the standard 685ZZ Bearings had failed after failing to change the 685ZZ Bearings....

They may NOT have had the new version.

Have not seen a picture of the new gearbox or bearings.

AL

[bergerud]

I think that was rmock just wanting to do the 250 hr maintenance.

[rmock]

Yes, that was me. When the new version failed and I went to rebuild I found the larger bearing, at that point I just installed another rebuilt Y I had ready and have not looked at the new version as of yet to see what size the bearing is. I think I only had 200 hrs on the new bearing Y when it failed. We put alot of hours on or CW's I think I will stick to rebuilding every 250 hrs it is only a couple $ for bearings and really isn't that much time.

[bergerud]

Well, that is interesting that the new, larger bearing failed in the same time frame as the smaller bearings have failed. Maybe the shaft was slipping in the bearing. Let us know when you get around to the autopsy.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Yes, that was me. When the new version failed and I went to rebuild I found the larger bearing, at that point I just installed another rebuilt Y I had ready and have not looked at the new version as of yet to see what size the bearing is. I think I only had 200 hrs on the new bearing Y when it failed. We put alot of hours on or CW's I think I will stick to rebuilding every 250 hrs it is only a couple $ for bearings and really isn't that much time.

Yes, would love to see pictures.

And measurements of the bearing.

Is the gear/shaft the same?

AL

[allenjones]

What I would like to known is: do the new gear boxes with the larger bearing still need the same maintenance?

Has anyone had these new bearings fail yet??

I’ve had 3 to fail the large bearing has not helped.....

One failed at 85 hours bad large bearing.

If I could find the large bearing size. I will be rebuilding at 100 hour until the plastic gear wears out. I’m currently changing the small bearing at 100 hour until the shaft wears on the large bearing side then I replace the shaft I have made from the machine shop. But I put the old large bearing back on the new shaft. I sent one of the large bearing to a bearing wholesaler hopefully they will help with the size. The bearing I sent was new from a new y gearbox.

Don’t understand why Carvewright refuses to offer all parts like other manufacturers.









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[Digitalwoodshop]

I’ve had 3 to fail the large bearing has not helped.....

One failed at 85 hours bad large bearing.

If I could find the large bearing size. I will be rebuilding at 100 hour until the plastic gear wears out. I’m currently changing the small bearing at 100 hour until the shaft wears on the large bearing side then I replace the shaft I have made from the machine shop. But I put the old large bearing back on the new shaft. I sent one of the large bearing to a bearing wholesaler hopefully they will help with the size. The bearing I sent was new from a new y gearbox.

Don’t understand why Carvewright refuses to offer all parts like other manufacturers.









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So we are making progress.... Curious what the new shaft cost you to have made? I just asked my Machine Shop for a quote...

And we might get a size on the bearings too... that is good....

AL

[Digitalwoodshop]

Since we are to the point of making shafts... I remember someone kicked around a idea for a bracket on the flat end cap to help support the bearing from the face side.... :twisted:

AL

[allenjones]

So we are making progress.... Curious what the new shaft cost you to have made? I just asked my Machine Shop for a quote...

And we might get a size on the bearings too... that is good....

AL

They cost me $90 for the two. He told me the next ones will be cheaper since he has a blue print made up now. The first two where trial and error. Because I did not have a new one for him to go by. I gave him a worn shaft to get the lengths and two new bearings one small and one large. I also gave him the plastic gear and snap ring. He is out of town on vacation now when he gets back I’ll ask him what would the price be in bulk. I bowl with him so he is a friend. If he can get them low enough I’ll have him make them to sell. I would love to get the price down to around $30 or lower each. I’m currently using the two he did in two of my machines. So I need to have a few made to rebuild a few more of my Y gearboxes. He is out of town for 2 weeks. I’m thinking the shaft would work in the old Y gearbox also. I currently don’t have a old gearbox to try them in. Don’t know why but they went in the trash. That was a big mistake I made. I now save about everything that I replace.


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[bergerud]

I’ve had 3 to fail the large bearing has not helped.....

One failed at 85 hours bad large bearing.



Well I wonder what the problem is. Is it heat? Is it lubrication? Bearing still not large enough?

When I designed my modified gear box, I figured a bigger bearing was going to be good enough. I guess not. (My bearing was 5X16X5 (625))

The design flaw is really having the bearings so far from the belt load. The next thing I would try is having a fixed shaft and put needle bearings in the gear itself.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Got a price back from my Machine Shop. Plus 6% Sales Tax.

This is the version for the legacy or dual 685ZZ Gearboxes.

My cost with sales tax not counting shipping to me. Then we have shipping to you.

$25.97 each for 25
$20.67 each for 50
$18.55 each for 100

This reminds me of the old coke and new coke where coke made classic coke taste like Pepsi thinking it was a good idea...

LHR sold the Gear/Shaft combo in 2011 for $6.00 and made money. We are looking at $30.00 plus with shipping in small quantities.

Must be a better way well, not better but Cheaper Way...... Looking at brass sleeves for my cheap 5 mm shafts...

I am disappointed with LHR... :( I defend the machine on many other forums... I want my Old Coke Back...


AL

[tackytim]

I am a 12 yr cabinet maker turned machinist. I run lathes at work most days. I am confident that I could order material and turn it to make new Y shafts. I have 2 machines myself, one A and one B. My A machine is currently running a custom spindle I made at work that accepts standard Porter cable router collets. It runs as nice as a Carvetite I believe.

Here's my situation. I'm moving in 2 weeks, lol. So I'm more than willing to work on a test case to see how it would work. I can't test it in my machines due to them in storage. Making one shouldn't be too dificult and if it works, I would be willing to order material and make them as needed. My other concern is with the number of people interested, how busy I would be working on them.

So if there is interest, please let me know and i'm willing to help. My boss allows me to do stuff on my lunch break, so I see it as doing it for a reasonable cost. It should be better than what is currently being offered.

Just thought i'd see if there's any interest. I would need to see what it looks like as well as maybe sending one to me to measure, etc.

Please contact me if you have questions, thanks.

- Tackytim

P.S. I think I also saw someone mention that there is a bearing with no ID number on it. I could measure that and possibly identify a replacement.

[SteveNelson46]

I am a 12 yr cabinet maker turned machinist. I run lathes at work most days. I am confident that I could order material and turn it to make new Y shafts. I have 2 machines myself, one A and one B. My A machine is currently running a custom spindle I made at work that accepts standard Porter cable router collets. It runs as nice as a Carvetite I believe.

Here's my situation. I'm moving in 2 weeks, lol. So I'm more than willing to work on a test case to see how it would work. I can't test it in my machines due to them in storage. Making one shouldn't be too dificult and if it works, I would be willing to order material and make them as needed. My other concern is with the number of people interested, how busy I would be working on them.

So if there is interest, please let me know and i'm willing to help. My boss allows me to do stuff on my lunch break, so I see it as doing it for a reasonable cost. It should be better than what is currently being offered.

Just thought i'd see if there's any interest. I would need to see what it looks like as well as maybe sending one to me to measure, etc.

Please contact me if you have questions, thanks.

- Tackytim

P.S. I think I also saw someone mention that there is a bearing with no ID number on it. I could measure that and possibly identify a replacement.


I am interested. Can you post a few pictures? Lots of other questions too. Can your spindle be used with the Carvewright long bits?

[tackytim]

Not sure about the long bits. I don't have Designer 3. I suspect so. I made my own press fit bit holders as well. I designed my spindle so the length of the bit in the old QC extended the same amount as the new spindle so as not to cause any touch off issues. Here are a few pics.
861798617886177

[bergerud]

You should try to make your spindles to be compatible with the CarveTight spindle as opposed to the old QC. The long bits and bits with CT adapters will be a problem otherwise. See the picture for the difference. (Also in the picture is an ER20M spindle that I made.) Think also about a lock button. Two wenches is a hassle.

[tackytim]

Yes, 2 wrenches is a little bit of a hassle. At the time i didn't have a carvetite to go by so I had to go with the length of the QC. I made it out of necessity since I couldn't swing the money for the CT and the 907 upgrade both. still haven't upgraded the 907 yet, but i don't even have 100 hrs on my A machine. Hoping to remedy that once I set up wherever we move to.

If/when i upgrade to designer 3, i'll have to redo it most likely. I may have a 3rd machine coming at some point too. Sounds like i'll be making metal chips along with the wood!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Tim,

Put me down for 6 Y Gearbox Shafts.

AL

[tackytim]

Would someone be willing to send me an old one so I can make sure the dimensions are right? I do not have access to mine as the machines are in storage. I do not have any shafts to go by other than the ones mounted in my machine. Any pictures would help as well.

[bergerud]

Here are some pictures of my setup with the lock button.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I love the brass locking pin on the ER Chuck. Excellent work...

As for the old shafts i am looking for in the back of my shop, they normally only wear at the area close to the gear. So even if you do put in new bearings the shaft will still lean.

If anyone has a old shaft that can get it out quicker chime in. I am shooting for Friday my Post Office Day to send something to him. Need to find them first..

AL

[bergerud]

Here are measurements of one of mine. All in millimeters. (Just the easy caliper readings. You will have to do some subtractions.)