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View Full Version : cutpath not lineuped on back pattern ?



myshop1044
03-17-2014, 02:49 PM
question, should 2 sided carvings be locked to the center cross hairs or is it ok
to lock the ptns to the outside of the designer board.
My friend wanted to do multiple ptns (2 sided) and is having trouble with the cut path
not lining up on the back side. I locked the ptns to the center cross hairs, thinking when you
flip the board, if there is a small difference in the sled as far as being perfectly centered , board with the sled,
the cut path would lined up.
He wants to rebuild the sled just for this project.
Give me your thoughts on the subject.
When he did it the first time the horses were not locked the same on both sides,
after we locked them , some on the center cross hairs, some on the outside of the designer board,
there was still some miss alignment on the cut path.
This is why he thought the board had to perfect with sled..
Help
the project is too large, so here is 2 paint versions.

DocWheeler
03-17-2014, 04:17 PM
A single two-sided carve can be difficult enough, doing six at a time could be a challenge.

I would think that the Designer attachment would work either edge or center, although I prefer center.
As you are aware, the actual carved board being out-of-square, not tight to the squaring plate,
and positioning a board in a sled by eye-balling will screw-up a two sided carve.

If your friend can cut the stock all the same size, I would advise him to use the CW to carve a "Centering"
board to put in his sled. What I'm suggesting is, lets say, the carved boards are 8" X 10" X 3/4" and the
sled is 12" X 20", that he create an mpc with a 8" X 10" cutout in the center, load the sled with a scrap
board screwed to the sled and then carve the cutout centered. Make the corners usable to the carving
blanks by chiseling out the corners or adding four little cuts to the mpc.

Now if the sled is kept tight to the squaring-plate, and you remember which way to flip the board, you
will have a good chance for success.

Good luck

FWMiller
03-17-2014, 09:47 PM
My machine is not accurate enough to do a two sided carve like you are attempting by finding its own center. What I would do since the center of the board is open is to drill a centered 1/8 hole through the board. You can use the machine to do this to make sure the hole is vertical. Then I would do two one sided carves using "jog to center" . When aligning to the center you jog the bit to the through hole and line it up.

lynnfrwd
03-17-2014, 10:30 PM
News flash tomorrow....(I think)!

myshop1044
03-18-2014, 07:15 AM
Thanks for the comments fellows and Connie, my friend and I have come up with a solution, He will do 2 front carvings
and glue them together . He needs about 3/8" bwtn the 2 carvings to put a dowel to be used as a stand for a horse game.
When I do a lot of 2 sided carvings I do CC on both sides and only 1 pattern on each side. That way any misalignment in
the flip of the board in the sled is taken care of.
Thanks again fellows.

cnsranch
03-18-2014, 11:49 AM
FWIW, I.m having the same issue as we speak. Two sided carve of two different pieces on the same board. I'll let you know how the test carve comes out, but I'm trying to lock each pattern to the same edge - the top to the keypad side, and the bottom to the opposite edge. That way, they're locked to the same edge when flipping the board. If your board's off dimensionally, and it usually is, this is the only way i can figure how to get them the same.

Again, I'll let you know.

SteveNelson46
03-18-2014, 12:25 PM
You may have more luck attaching to the center lines instead of the board edges.

myshop1044
03-18-2014, 12:46 PM
Giving this more thought, I do mark a center line both ways on my sled, I watch the line when the truck travels in the "Y" and "Z"
direction. The other thing is a always line up the "Y" mark on the sled with the truck head to make sure I am in the center of the sled
to get started.

cnsranch
03-18-2014, 01:25 PM
I call my test a success. Some pics right out of the machine, the last one with a touch of sanding with a 3M Bristle Disc.

Last pic doesn't really do justice to the fact that both sides lined up as well as I could expect.

MPC's attached if I've only confused this further.

fwharris
03-18-2014, 01:43 PM
I call my test a success. Some pics right out of the machine, the last one with a touch of sanding with a 3M Bristle Disc.

Last pic doesn't really do justice to the fact that both sides lined up as well as I could expect.

MPC's attached if I've only confused this further.

Jerry,

Looks great! Nice to see you got it carved.

SteveNelson46
03-18-2014, 03:54 PM
Giving this more thought, I do mark a center line both ways on my sled, I watch the line when the truck travels in the "Y" and "Z"
direction. The other thing is a always line up the "Y" mark on the sled with the truck head to make sure I am in the center of the sled
to get started.

I was referring to the center lines in the Designer. Also. I always make sure the cutout is exactly the same size as the pattern and attached to the center lines from the same points. This should allow you to use the "Center Project On Board" option. The sled still has to be dead-on square and the board has to be at dead-center and square with the sled. I have included a modification of your original to illustrate these points. I know you have already carved the project but, this might help in the future.

RMarkey
03-18-2014, 04:01 PM
CarveWright designer firmware version 2.005 adds a new "flip within jig" feature, which may help with double-sided projects inside of jigs.

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Software_instructions/FlipWithinJig.pdf

myshop1044
03-18-2014, 04:36 PM
This "flip within jig" is going to very good, Steve, I always do CC on both sides of the designer board. I was referring to making sure the sled travels
correctly in Y and Z by watching the center marks on the sled and making sure the sled is squared up in the machine.

Perry

CW-HAL9000
03-18-2014, 09:55 PM
CarveWright designer firmware version 2.005 adds a new "flip within jig" feature, which may help with double-sided projects inside of jigs.

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Software_instructions/FlipWithinJig.pdf

Ok, It is getting closer and closer to me actually wanting to buy 2.0 ! This feature is a big deal to me. I use jigs or a sled on 100% of my projects and many are double sided. I always use jog to center to set up and this will improve my accuracy greatly! I am not rushing out to buy but I am going to start putting aside money. I also think the rotary jig is looking good but this is one time that I wish they had priced it at their usual $200. LOL.

lynnfrwd
03-18-2014, 10:15 PM
Just for you..CW-hal9000 ....pretend the software is $200 and jig $150.

lynnfrwd
03-18-2014, 10:16 PM
CarveWright designer firmware version 2.005 adds a new "flip within jig" feature, which may help with double-sided projects inside of jigs.

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Software_instructions/FlipWithinJig.pdf

There's that news flash.

RMarkey
03-18-2014, 10:27 PM
You can run 2.005 firmware with 1.187 if you like... flip-within-jig is not dependent on designer 2.0... its just packaged with it.

fwharris
03-18-2014, 10:45 PM
Just for you..CW-hal9000 ....pretend the software is $200 and jig $150.

Sorry cw-hal9000 but LMAO!!

CW-HAL9000
03-18-2014, 10:48 PM
Just for you..CW-hal9000 ....pretend the software is $200 and jig $150.

Thank you....... I think. ;)

fwharris
04-05-2014, 10:35 PM
CarveWright designer firmware version 2.005 adds a new "flip within jig" feature, which may help with double-sided projects inside of jigs.

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Software_instructions/FlipWithinJig.pdf

Ok I've downloaded this and read it a few times so now seeking some clarification on a few things. In the pdf the board being carved is the full length of the jig. My jig will have end pieces and the carved piece will sit in a pocket inside the jig.

For the jog to corner should I jog to the corner of the piece being carved? The pdf shows jogging to the end corner of the long piece.

Should this jog point be dead nuts on each of the corners?

What I will be doing is some boxes with the face of the box having a rounded corner cut out and the reverse of the face with have a back cut dado so that I can insert a wood piece of a different kind. The insert will be the same shape as the cut out in the face and dado cut so that it is flush with the front of the box.

bergerud
04-05-2014, 10:56 PM
I played with it one day. I think it is as simple as you first jog to the front left corner which should coorespond to the corner of the Designer board. Then after you flip the board in the jig, you jog to the same corner except now it is on the front right. (That is the point, to use the same reference point after the flip.) I do not think it matters where your work piece is on the sled. In my tests I just had a small piece in a pocket and jogged to the two front corners of the pocket. My workpiece size in Designer was the same size as the pocket.

fwharris
04-06-2014, 12:47 AM
I played with it one day. I think it is as simple as you first jog to the front left corner which should coorespond to the corner of the Designer board. Then after you flip the board in the jig, you jog to the same corner except now it is on the front right. (That is the point, to use the same reference point after the flip.) I do not think it matters where your work piece is on the sled. In my tests I just had a small piece in a pocket and jogged to the two front corners of the pocket. My workpiece size in Designer was the same size as the pocket.

Dan,

Thanks for the input, I figured you and Brandon had played with this a little bit. I think this is very similar from what I've picked up on large format cnc indexing of a work piece.

I made up a mpc in 1.187, I like being visual, for verification on how I am understanding this. The mpc is set up as a sled with a work piece.

When your design board is the same size as the as the work board and the work board is the same size as the pocket in the sled you should always jog to the exact corner point of the board, front and back. In designer looking at the front side this would be the 0,0 coordinate or top left corner.

If your design board is smaller than your work board you could either jog to the corners or jog to a pre measured point on both sides of the board.

If your work board is smaller than the sled pocket your board should be placed up into the corresponding corners and jogged to the corner points.

Couldn't you also use this type of set up for doing multiple carvings of the same project with different boards. I think it would save a little bit on the set up and measuring process at the start of each project.

bergerud
04-06-2014, 10:44 AM
Your mpc is a nice visual of the situation. The point of it all, I think, is so that the actual position of the workpiece on the sled is not part of the equation. The jogs "find" the workpiece no matter where it is on the sled. Your mpc is too nice! It is so nice, you would not need to use this feature. Maybe you should make the rails and end blocks all different sizes to emphasize benefit of the feature.

fwharris
04-06-2014, 11:54 AM
Your mpc is a nice visual of the situation. The point of it all, I think, is so that the actual position of the workpiece on the sled is not part of the equation. The jogs "find" the workpiece no matter where it is on the sled. Your mpc is too nice! It is so nice, you would not need to use this feature. Maybe you should make the rails and end blocks all different sizes to emphasize benefit of the feature.

Well lets just say I and probably most others try to be a little more accurate than Metallus! :D

The jog to position is all about finding the 0,0 coordinate on both sides of the board no matter where the board is located in the sled or even on a board that is not in a sled. A lot of the 2 sided carves that I've done has had a small offset from front to reverse side carve and this should hopefully remove the difference.

bergerud
04-06-2014, 12:48 PM
A lot of the 2 sided carves that I've done has had a small offset from front to reverse side carve and this should hopefully remove the difference.

Unfortunately, I do not think this is the silver bullet for the prefect line up. I have not had much success with accuracy and jogging. (I keep pushing for a method to define an absolute sled coordinate system.)