Pricing CW projects

[RedBear]

I've been lurking around and checking out the CW since seeing the Sears TV ad in December. Right now I'm self-employed mostly doing freelance computer work, and unfortunately I don't have much experience with woodworking in any form. But, I am very mechanically minded (and I can read), so I think I can figure things out. I'm really interested in getting one of these machines despite the issues some people seem to be having. However I would be asking someone else to front the cash to buy the machine, so I need to know that I can quickly be up and running and making some money with it.

I've already seen at least a couple of people here posting that they made back the cost of the machine on their first project or shortly thereafter, so I know it's possible to make a living with just this machine, some basic woodworking skills and some good ideas. What I'm interested in is:

How did you make your money back?
How do you price your projects in general? (Examples?)
What sorts of products are commonly requested from you? (Signs and ?)
If you're making artistic pieces, how do you go about marketing your work to dealers?
Anybody out there doing really artsy stuff with the CW?
Can you post photos of those mega-buck projects that made you back the cost of the CW so fast?
Do you have any advice for an eager woodworking newbie? :D


Looking forward to hearing from the pros, if you have the time. I'm also really interested in working with solid surface materials like Corian, and polycarbonates/UHMW/acrylic, so any advice there would be appreciated. But I think I'll make a separate post on that.

[poisdoux]

Hi RedBear,

Not a Pro... not making big bucks (yet) but hope to have some info for you.

I've been woodworking most my life, but never in production. I just love it. Trying to make a living with it, well, I've never pulled that off ;)

The software and instructions seem to be written by someone who already knows how to use the machine - you doing computer work, I think you'll know what I mean. I do a lot of computer work too - websites and graphics.

I think most people can be up and running shortly after receiving the machine. CarveWright stated it's NOT a production machine and you have to give it time to cool down now and then, so you can't get in a big hurry.

As for the art, well, the software does unexpected things with photos and such... even inversed it's not what you think it will do. Custom work that is raised correctly will take some practice. I'm just hoping it can be done.

I've carved some pictures of fossils and line art and they are very nice. Photos just aren't working yet. It's all the black is the deepest, white is the highest thing. I just don't have it down yet.

It does the elements in the software beautifully. They are very well done and I have tried to figure out how to reproduce the results, but .. not yet. There are plenty of things in there to work with many many combinations to choose from, so if you just want to work with what they give you... which is enough, then you're set to go.

There is talk of graphic programs working well to achive the results you want but although I've worked with graphics for about 8 years now, I haven't been able to get a good photo cut. yet.
The bevel/emboss is useful in some applications.

As for pricing, well, I'm not sure how "they" are doing that yet. Nobody seems to want to tell me that ;)
I checked with the local home stores and online where ever I could find wood carvings, most are plaster or plastic...
well what I've come up with is x amount per minute.

A cabinet maker has requested carvings on HIS stock. We will get it as boards and carve the elements he chooses in the way he wants them at the location on the board, he will do the rest.
I'm thinking the area of the country will make a difference to the pricing also. I'm in rural Oklahoma, a more populated area may bring bigger bucks.
Right now we are going with 25 cents a minute for this guy who usually buys scroll work at Lowe's and glues it on which cost a lot more in the long run. That worked out to ONE element about 5" high is around $1.25 to cut on his wood... it's about $3 - $5 to buy (at the stores) and glue on, etc..

He knows it will take a while to get these done, but he said with the glue time and cleanup of his cabinet doors and the fact that it will be carved IN so there's no chipping off, well, he's ready to place that order!

My husband said I couldn't have this machine without making money with it. He's already bought all the other power tools & pottery stuff you could think of for me, but due to health problems - I don't have a lot of strength - I haven't been able to "produce". The Carve Wright doesn't require any and produces beautiful results.

I know some wood is pretty costly and will have to add that in when doing "jobs" that include wood.

Oh, the software gives you the time it will take to run the job when you go to load it on the card - we're running them on "normal" and a depth of not more than 1/4". It takes a little cleanup with a soft wire brush on a Dremel type tool but it also depends on the type of wood. Hard woods don't take much cleanup.

We bought the machine in December, but then it things got real busy around here. I have some pictures of what we've done if you want to see them, let me know... maybe I'll put them up on a webpage for viewing... I'll have to edit them to size first.

hope this helps some,
pois doux

[HandTurnedMaple]

Pricing:

cost of wood (plus mark up if you do that)

+

cost of finishing supplies (small hanging carvings shouldn't be more than $1 or 2)

+

cost of pattern (purchase price or time making it on computer)

+

tool upkeep of all tools involved (bits, parts, blades, sharpening, % of purchase price based on output and life expectancy, ie $1699 / 200 hour warranty = $8.50 hr cut time or $17.00 hr to purchase a replacement machine when the warranty runs out)

+

desired profit.

[RedBear]

Thanks for the replies. I knew at least one person would have a formula of some kind. That will be helpful. The only part I'm wondering about is how you figure your "desired profit" at the end. Do you base it on a percentage of the total production costs, or the difficulty of the project? Do you change your profit margin based on what type of item you're making, or how many you're making of that piece?

Can you post some photos of finished projects and how much they sold for? I'm one of those people that learns best by example. :wink:

I guess another important piece of that formula is, how do you value your time? $20/hr? $60/hr?

Poisdoux, please do post some examples of your work, if you have the time. I'm sure everyone would be interested, myself included. Fossils are a good idea, not just photos but I'm hoping to pick up some real ones on eBay and make reproductions or incorporate them into other patterns.

[HandTurnedMaple]

I haven't sold any yet, but here is an example that I have for sale in an art gallery.

1) .75 board feet Cherry @ $6.60 bd ft = $4.95 + 15% markup for the gas to drive 35 miles to get the board + 50% markup so I can buy more lumber next trip = $8.17.

2) $3 for stain and lacquer by weight

3) VA3D $25 pattern/5 uses = $5. I don't want to over-produce a pattern because I still want to create the illusion that they are not machine produced. I never lie about it, I am simply evasive like "Did you carve this? I did that, yes." Or "That is my work." I am practicing for my run at President in 2012.

4) 1.75 hours carve time * $12.50 (1 1/2 times the break-even hourly rate of the machine) = $21.88 + (1.75 hours * $3.43 maintence cost for table saw, miter saw, sander, and chisels) $6 = $27.88

5) $25 profit (I think that's a fair hobbyist rate. If you do this for a living, charge more.)

$8.17 + 3 + 5 + 27.88 + 25 = $69.05 + 30% commission for the art gallery = $89.76. Following the guidelines for pricing (round $50 - $100 to nearest $5 mark) gives a final price of $90.

This is a low-price, low-volume method. If you rent your shop or advertise your products you need to include that. Also such things as heating costs, etc. I figure I will be in there anyway so I don't generally include such things (plus I have a fairly unique financial situation and outlook). But when craft-show season kicks off, I need to factor in the cost of the show divided by how many I expect to sell.

My best advice for general woodworking pricing is the book "The Woodworker's Guide to Pricing Your Work" by Dan Ramsey.

[RedBear]

$90? Don't you mean $89.99 Special Price This Week Only Limited Edition? Heh.

Yeah, I've also thought about how the shops and a lot of buyers might be less interested in stuff that isn't completely hand-crafted. Just have to see how it goes. I tend to think that once you get to a certain quality level it won't really matter to most people. I also had the idea of making limited numbers of each piece to keep the prices up. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll look around for it or something similar.

If I may be so bold as to offer some counter advice, I think that elk looks a bit lonely. :) I would bet that if you found a nice landscape pattern (I'm sure VA3D has something that would work) to put in the background you could create more of a 3D effect that would dramatically enhance the impact of the piece, and thus its value to the buyer. That plus some fine detail work around the frame, which the CW is very capable of doing, would really set it off. Could be some other animal patterns repeated around the frame or just some nice scroll work or something. You could probably double or triple the price just by adding little touches like that.

One of my many ideas for increasing value is to make various parts of my pieces out of different types of wood, or in some cases even mix wood with non-wood materials. Like I would carve the elk out of something dark (or stain it dark), then glue it to the lighter background where it would really stand out. I might even do a different material for the frame.

I have a lot of weird ideas like this and I know it's all do-able, that's what makes me so excited about getting a CW and trying to figure out how to pull it off.

[HandTurnedMaple]

If I may be so bold as to offer some counter advice, I think that elk looks a bit lonely. :) I would bet that if you found a nice landscape pattern (I'm sure VA3D has something that would work) to put in the background you could create more of a 3D effect that would dramatically enhance the impact of the piece, and thus its value to the buyer. That plus some fine detail work around the frame, which the CW is very capable of doing, would really set it off. Could be some other animal patterns repeated around the frame or just some nice scroll work or something. You could probably double or triple the price just by adding little touches like that.

I have the VA3D Animal Pack on order with all of the scenes in it. But this one was $25 and the landscapes are $75 so I chose to go simple while I experimented.