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View Full Version : CT Adapters Move Easily with Heat



bergerud
12-15-2013, 02:32 PM
I just performed a simple experiment that I think should especially interest the Rock users. We have talked about pressing the CT adapters off and on. Some have pounded and some have used vises and presses. I pressed one off and on before with a vise and found it was pretty darn tight.

Well, I thought I would try some heat. I clamped a CT carving bit lightly in a vise and took a pencil flame propane torch to the adapter. After a few seconds, it just slid down the shank.

This is very good news for the Rock users because the pressing method only works in one direction: to push the shank butt end out through the adapter. (One cannot push hard on the flutes.) To move the adapter down the shank would require pressing the bit completely out and then back in (but not so far). Also, one needs spacers, punch pins, and either a press or a big vise.

With the heat method, you can move the adapter anyway you want with just a light touch. No large, scary forces.

Rock users can buy the deep carving bits with the knowledge that they can deal with the adapters.

The 1/4" Rock users can just remove the adapter with a propane torch.

The 1/2" Rock users can just use the torch to slide the adapter the required 1/4" - 1/2" down the bit shank. (The exact distance needs to be determined.)

Isn't it fun when it is simple!

liquidguitars
12-15-2013, 05:04 PM
Well done. Now I can use some of the old 1/16 ball and cut bits I got from Lawrence with the CT adapters!

RogerB
12-15-2013, 05:28 PM
Thanks nice to know have some bits that I have not used and just put in a drawer.:p

blhutchens
12-15-2013, 05:32 PM
That works well. I salvaged some adapters off of old or broken bits. Not sure of proper procedure to get the temper back to where it should be. I did chuck them in a drill and lightly emory clothed em just to clean em up. Seems to work fine.

bergerud
12-15-2013, 06:31 PM
There is no problem with temper. I doubt they are tempered and even if they are, the propane barely gets them warm by metal standards.

There is certainly no problem with heat and the bits. They barely get hot and even if they did, it would make no difference. Carbide can stand tremendous heat. (Ever noticed that the carbide tips on your saw blades are brazed on!)

If one wants to use them on a different bit, make sure the new bit has a diameter of 0.2500". 0.2495" might not be tight. 0.2490" slips right through. I think most solid carbide shanks are pretty close to 0.2500". One should check.

Edit: Second thought, one might want to cold press in a new bit the last little bit just to know it is tight.

FWMiller
02-12-2014, 12:51 AM
Will this trick work with the QC adaptors? I've got a brand new never been used 1/16 carving bit in a QC but recently upgraded to the carvetight. Could I use this to remove the QC adaptor and put the bit in my ER11 chuck?

FWMiller
02-12-2014, 12:54 AM
Never mind. Dumb question. I had thought they were pressed on too. But after looking closer I noticed what I thought were pins in the side are actually allen screws. Doohh!

bergerud
02-12-2014, 01:00 AM
Sometimes there is also Loctite holding the bit in the QC adapters and heat will help.

Ton80
02-12-2014, 09:45 AM
Never mind. Dumb question. I had thought they were pressed on too. But after looking closer I noticed what I thought were pins in the side are actually allen screws. Doohh!

Those allen screws are generally held in place with loctite ( dam auto spell wanted kept changing that to lactate, lol ) so a torch to heat it up is probably still going to be needed. I've found I needed heat to loosen the screws and also to remove the bit from the adaptors.

Digitalwoodshop
02-12-2014, 10:30 AM
I use a Deep Socket to help hold and remove the QC bit holders and a little torch. I tap the bit through the QC bit holder with a punch.

GOOD to know on the CT's..

AL

dbemus
02-12-2014, 02:31 PM
To remove the QC bit holders I add a little heat with a micro torch and touch the screws with a small birthday candle. the wax is drawn into the threads and seems to loosen the locktite

SteveNelson46
02-12-2014, 02:57 PM
I just performed a simple experiment that I think should especially interest the Rock users. We have talked about pressing the CT adapters off and on. Some have pounded and some have used vises and presses. I pressed one off and on before with a vise and found it was pretty darn tight.

Well, I thought I would try some heat. I clamped a CT carving bit lightly in a vise and took a pencil flame propane torch to the adapter. After a few seconds, it just slid down the shank.

This is very good news for the Rock users because the pressing method only works in one direction: to push the shank butt end out through the adapter. (One cannot push hard on the flutes.) To move the adapter down the shank would require pressing the bit completely out and then back in (but not so far). Also, one needs spacers, punch pins, and either a press or a big vise.

With the heat method, you can move the adapter anyway you want with just a light touch. No large, scary forces.

Rock users can buy the deep carving bits with the knowledge that they can deal with the adapters.

The 1/4" Rock users can just remove the adapter with a propane torch.

The 1/2" Rock users can just use the torch to slide the adapter the required 1/4" - 1/2" down the bit shank. (The exact distance needs to be determined.)

Isn't it fun when it is simple!

Bergerud,

I know you posted this a couple of months ago but, I hadn't given it much thought until now. After installing a new bit, was there any slippage or vibration. I have a rock chuck but, I'm currently using the CT. Thinking of switching back when the CT chuck wears out.

bergerud
02-12-2014, 03:07 PM
Bergerud,

I know you posted this a couple of months ago but, I hadn't given it much thought until now. After installing a new bit, was there any slippage or vibration. I have a rock chuck but, I'm currently using the CT. Thinking of switching back when the CT chuck wears out.

I do not imagine any slippage. Using heat is much more gentle than brute force pressing these adapters on and off. (I can tell by the scrape marks on the bits that that is how it was done.) As long as the bits are really close to 0.2500" or the bits are the bits that came with the adapters, they will be tight.

Does the CT wear out? How is that?

SteveNelson46
02-12-2014, 03:23 PM
Ii has bearings in the Y truck. I just assumed that eventually the bearings will wear out. Mine has over 900 cut motor hours on it and is beginning to sound as though it may be wearing out.

bergerud
02-12-2014, 04:15 PM
Ii has bearings in the Y truck. I just assumed that eventually the bearings will wear out. Mine has over 900 cut motor hours on it and is beginning to sound as though it may be wearing out.

You can just change the bearings.

SteveNelson46
02-12-2014, 04:59 PM
You can just change the bearings.

Can I buy them from LHR?

bergerud
02-12-2014, 05:05 PM
Can I buy them from LHR?

No, but they are standard size bearings. A 6000DDU on top and a 6002VV on the bottom. The 6002VV is a little special. The VV stands for non contact seals (for high rpm). These can be bought at any bearing supply outlet.

henry1
02-13-2014, 01:05 AM
Have to agree with you Dan it works well

tcough3475
02-13-2014, 01:28 PM
Could a single through-cut be made down the side of the adapter with say a Dremel and cut-off wheel or something similar? The adapters I purchased from LHR is nothing more than that, and when inserted into the CT, tightening the chuck tightens the adapter around the bit. I haven't tried this yet, but have just came into ownership of a freshly broken 1/8th inch cutting bit for a CT. Will try over the upcoming weekend unless someone beats me to it.

Tracy

bergerud
02-13-2014, 05:37 PM
I do not think that a cut down the side would work very well. The adapter is thick and will not flex. Maybe if you made more cuts. Still I would not trust it to hold a smooth carbide shank. The heat thing really works well.

liquidguitars
02-19-2014, 11:33 PM
I did this today Dan thanks for the information! I did get one that I could not get to move was red hot and no go I going to heat it and then press it next...:shock:

keninar
02-06-2015, 02:28 PM
Can the CT adapters be used on a non-carbide bit? I bought a set of QC bits when on closeout from Sears and would like to use the 60 degree non-carbide bit. Have a broken CT bit that I can try the "heat removal" technique - but is it appropriate to move it to the non-carbide bit?

Thanks!

keninar

fwharris
02-06-2015, 02:52 PM
for the CarveWright V bits you can just use the split collet adapter http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=20564&cat=294&page=1

keninar
02-06-2015, 03:05 PM
Ok. Thanks. Was wondering if I could go the other way: ct collar on a steel shank. Have an extra ct collar from a broken carving bit. Heated it and it slipped right off. Can I use it on a steel shank? (Don't have a spli collar on hand)
Thanks!

lynnfrwd
02-06-2015, 03:07 PM
I don't think it will grip it hard enough and you need the 1/4" rubber stop collars.

bergerud
02-06-2015, 03:35 PM
Ok. Thanks. Was wondering if I could go the other way: ct collar on a steel shank. Have an extra ct collar from a broken carving bit. Heated it and it slipped right off. Can I use it on a steel shank? (Don't have a spli collar on hand)
Thanks!

You may be able to use it. Size is very important. It must measure like 0.2500 ± 0.0002". 10 thousandths matter. Compare the shank size to the broken carbide bit. If is "exactly" the same size, it will work. (As a test to be sure, heat up the adapter, slide it on close to where you want it. Wait until it cools down and then press it on the rest of the way in a vise. That way you will feel how tight it is.)

lynnfrwd
02-06-2015, 04:16 PM
It is your machine and you are more than able to experiment with suggestions like Bergerud's. I will note your account in case you have issues with it, we will know why.

keninar
02-06-2015, 05:57 PM
Wow - Wasn't expecting a reply from LHR quite like that.
Have never seen anyone getting a "Black Mark" on their account for an optional discussion.

Guess I'll crawl back into my cave

Sorry to have bothered anyone on a Friday afternoon.

Mugsowner
02-06-2015, 07:03 PM
Loctite breaks down with heat. Most Loctite products unless it is a high temp type will give up around 250 degrees. Heat has been used to install and remove different type parts for years. It makes a tighter fit than pressing, for the simple reason you are not pushing small particles of metal out with the press and the heat fit id. can be a touch smaller than a press fit id. When removing with heat take care to not get both items hot. Like I saw in an earlier post it was red hot. At that point the bit with have started to heat up as well an will not come apart. Heat evenly all the way around, use a spreader if you have one. When the heated portion gets to 250 to 300 degrees things should slide apart, but do it quickly or you will be heating it up again. As far as installing, mark where you what to stop inserting and heat things up. Once outer portion is hot enough quickly insert to the mark and let cool. Should be good to go. Cutting a collar it not that hot of an idea. Like Connie stated you will need a stop collar to prevent the bit from raising while under pressure. If a fit issue come up while craving that causes slip the bit could become a projectile, which in turn would cause depression to rear it's ugly head. I have not tried heating adapters as of yet, but I was discussing making up an adapter for a small drill bit for an led craving project I am working on with a machinist that handles my machining needs, as I can't fit all the toys in the shop yet. A heat fit was determined to give us the best fit and hold. Now I come home and see this posted.

lynnfrwd
02-06-2015, 07:55 PM
Sorry, that was the end of a long week, but had this happen before. Spent several weeks trying to chase down the issue. It was using the wrong bit holder on a bit not purchased from us.

Iron Mike
02-06-2015, 08:35 PM
I've added 'spare' collars to my keyhole and 60 degree bits, both are working fine. Nice not to have to mess with the adapters and the plastic spacers? My propane torch was the method I used - came off and went on easily.