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rlavelle
12-13-2013, 08:17 PM
does anyone know of any company that can resharpen a carvetight carving bit? or how to resharpen a 1/16 carving bit?

CarverJerry
12-15-2013, 12:30 PM
I live in an area with lots of machine shops, which comes with lots of tool and cutter grinders. I took a few to a couple of companies that grinds carbide and they all tell me that it's not worth it to try and set up this cutter and resharpen it. When it is made, it is done on a cnc machine that does all the flutes and sharpening in one operation. I have sharpened many cutters before but were larger than this 1/4" tapered with a ball nose. I understand why no one wants to try and tackle these cutters. Good luck and let us know if you find someone who is willing to do these.

rmock
12-15-2013, 03:05 PM
Jerry,
That's what I have found also, up here in NW corner of Ohio. Lots of shops and everyone agrees that its not worth trying to sharpen them.

rmock
12-15-2013, 03:19 PM
I get my 1/16th bits from drillman on ebay 2 1/2 inch 4 flutes $30 a bit less than $3 shipping usally get them within 3 to 5 days. every once in while he will run a sale for $25 a bit

bergerud
12-15-2013, 03:44 PM
We had a thread going on this before:

http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?19090-can-the-1-16-bit-be-sharpened&highlight=sharpening

CarverJerry
12-16-2013, 09:30 PM
I lucked out and my boss ordered me 20 cutters that were exactly like LHR's cutters. He wouldn't tell me how much they cost and wouldn't accept anything for them because I made him a Lithopane of his kids in a shadow box. Guess "one hand washes the other." I'll be set for years.

CW-HAL9000
12-16-2013, 09:45 PM
I lucked out and my boss ordered me 20 cutters that were exactly like LHR's cutters. He wouldn't tell me how much they cost and wouldn't accept anything for them because I made him a Lithopane of his kids in a shadow box. Guess "one hand washes the other." I'll be set for years.

Wow, that has to be the highest price anyone has ever gotten for a lithophane. That would be around $800. Great job and nice boss.

dcalvin4
12-17-2013, 05:46 PM
thats the way it should work and does a lot of the time I traded a whirleygig duck goose for 2 rolls masking tape and a box of surgical gloves [ STAINING] pLUUS A HOST OF CW WEDDING SIGNS A sign FOR A WALLET 5 SIGNS FOR 5 QUARTS MAPLE SYRUP.. 1 SIGN FOR 6 HAIR CUTS What has anyone else traded for signes?
denny

ronboley
12-17-2013, 08:25 PM
Ok this seems too good to be true, but its what I've been doing and it seems to work. There is a U tube video of a guy simply chucking the bit (works in CT adaptor too) into his cordless drill and runs it in reverse against a diamond sharpening plate with a little water or oil. The bit is held at the angle of the bit taper so the flutes run flat against the diamond plate. I have been doing this the last year with the CW 1/16 carving bits and it seems to work. So with the current interest in this subject I thought I would do a little more investigation. I took one of my "old" bits out of an old QC adaptor and spray painted it black. After the paint was dry I chucked it up and went thru my (personal) sharpening procedure of running it in reverse (counter clockwise) against my 600 grit diamond sharpening plate for a few seconds with a little water lubrication. I then viewed the bit with my 10x loupe. The three spiral edges of the bit were shinny from the tip up to the shank of the bit. The shinny area is about 30% of the cutting edge width and seems to follow the angle break in the spiral edge. The diamond left small scratches more or less perpendicular to the spiral edge. I ran the bit against some finer sharpening stones, but the they don't seem to do much to the carbide bit as expected. Might try a finer diamond sharpening plate to get a more polished edge, but don't have one presently. The attached photo is of the sharpened bit. The technique seems awfully simple and quick, but it seems to work. Happy sharpening!

DocWheeler
12-17-2013, 08:41 PM
Thanks for posting that, I needed an excuse to buy a diamond plate.

bergerud
12-17-2013, 09:05 PM
Ok this seems too good to be true, but its what I've been doing and it seems to work. There is a U tube video of a guy simply chucking the bit (works in CT adaptor too) into his cordless drill and runs it in reverse against a diamond sharpening plate with a little water or oil. The bit is held at the angle of the bit taper so the flutes run flat against the diamond plate. I have been doing this the last year with the CW 1/16 carving bits and it seems to work. So with the current interest in this subject I thought I would do a little more investigation. I took one of my "old" bits out of an old QC adaptor and spray painted it black. After the paint was dry I chucked it up and went thru my (personal) sharpening procedure of running it in reverse (counter clockwise) against my 600 grit diamond sharpening plate for a few seconds with a little water lubrication. I then viewed the bit with my 10x loupe. The three spiral edges of the bit were shinny from the tip up to the shank of the bit. The shinny area is about 30% of the cutting edge width and seems to follow the angle break in the spiral edge. The diamond left small scratches more or less perpendicular to the spiral edge. I ran the bit against some finer sharpening stones, but the they don't seem to do much to the carbide bit as expected. Might try a finer diamond sharpening plate to get a more polished edge, but don't have one presently. The attached photo is of the sharpened bit. The technique seems awfully simple and quick, but it seems to work. Happy sharpening!

This technique was posted before by Kevin Williams (ktjwilliams).

The method seems to work for awhile to "touch" up the cutting edges. My problem with it is it does not get to the most important part of the bit - the tip.

ronboley
12-18-2013, 12:33 PM
This technique was posted before by Kevin Williams (ktjwilliams).

The method seems to work for awhile to "touch" up the cutting edges. My problem with it is it does not get to the most important part of the bit - the tip.

Bergerund is correct...the rotating sharpening method dresses the spiral cutting edges, but does not touch the very tips of the three spirals. Again looking thru my 10x loupe, the three spirals terminate in very small beveled points much like the (much larger) points of a twist bit. I'm wondering if these could be dressed with a very fine diamond plate or ???? in a manner similar to sharpening the points of the twist bits....looks like further experimentation is required...see the attached crude sketch...any thoughts are welcomed...

James RS
12-18-2013, 04:41 PM
I found this on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Bz4xrJ8mM&feature=share&list=FL9uk8vkwvX6Lqybos-oar5A&index=19 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Bz4xrJ8mM&feature=share&list=FL9uk8vkwvX6Lqybos-oar5A&index=19)

bergerud
12-18-2013, 04:51 PM
That's our Kevin.

CarverJerry
12-19-2013, 11:16 AM
Having a little cutter grinding experience in my 40+ years as a machinist I just want to say that by spinning this cutter in reverse and using a diamond stick will put an edge back on the cutter but at the same time it will reduce the angle of the primary cutting edge. As this reduced angle is changed the bit will after a few touch ups will start to rub and not cut. Just my 2¢ worth.

Capt Bruce
01-15-2014, 02:34 PM
I'd like to add something to this discussion of re-sharpening carbide bits. I've long been able to successfully touch up conventional carbide router bits when they began to burn wood while cutting with a router. All the advice gained over the years from master craftsmen who did this was to use a diamond plate or paddle and strictly to lap the face of the carbide that first meets the wood.

Never try to sharpen the backdraft of the carbide as that changes the shape of the cutter and will quickly lead to an out of balance bit.

The CW bit challenge therefore is to work down in those flutes of the carving or cutting bit and as much as possible only up at the top edge. I purchased a set of diamond dust coated needle files including one that tapers almost to a point from about 1/8th inch diameter. I chuck my carving bit in a hand drill just to steady it and then follow each groove (flute) with the file and use the increasing diameter to stay right up against that edge that needs a touch up. Because the file is riding in the flute you can even follow the curve right up and onto the tip.

I'd like to know what others think on this and will try to provide some photos and file set details.

CarverJerry
01-16-2014, 05:57 AM
Capt. Bruce. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you touching up the front (cutting) edge from inside of the flute? In other wise, and I know it's not much but you are making the flute larger (wider)? This would keep the angles, both primary and secondary relief angles untouched and would do ok if you can get ALL the way down on the very tip, which is what usually gets dull first.

Capt Bruce
01-16-2014, 09:19 AM
CarverJerry,

Yes, that is the exact edge I'm touching up with this method. You would think that probably 85-90% of the wear on one of these carving bits (and probably most cutting bits) is in the first 1/4" of the cutting length if one carves shallow projects. In general this is not a CNC directed re-sharpening but it sure seems to work wonders with my collection of used bits and extends their use better than running a bit in reverse against a stone.

bergerud
01-16-2014, 09:32 AM
How fine is the grit on that diamond dust file? Mine all seem to coarse for that.

unitedcases
01-16-2014, 12:42 PM
CarverJerry,

Yes, that is the exact edge I'm touching up with this method. You would think that probably 85-90% of the wear on one of these carving bits (and probably most cutting bits) is in the first 1/4" of the cutting length if one carves shallow projects. In general this is not a CNC directed re-sharpening but it sure seems to work wonders with my collection of used bits and extends their use better than running a bit in reverse against a stone.

Capt, how hard do you think it would be to display in maybe a photo what you are doing?

Capt Bruce
01-16-2014, 02:10 PM
These are not the best photos but as good as the close up on my Canon pocket camera will allow.
I bought this set of Trend files more than 10 years ago to touch up conventional carbide tipped router bits, being Scottish by nature and they show no wear to date. The maker notes they are 600 grit monocrystaline diamond coated. Here are a few photos

67006 67007 67008 67010 67009 67012 67011

With the bit secured in my drill chuck as a steady rest and the file laid in the flute I use just that part of the file that is about half the width of the groove and press up against the inside cutting edge. 2-3 short strokes in each area and then work up along the edge. Step down to the next flute and follow it again and then the 3rd or 4th flute as well.

In the last photo I come back to each flute at the tip from the other direction and follow that edge raising the angle of the file up to stay with the edge right up onto the top.

I generally wait until I have several bits that need this type of touch-up work so my routine is fairly consistent and muscle memory clicks in. Can't say this will work for everyone but seems to work for me. Comments are welcome Team.

DocWheeler
01-16-2014, 02:19 PM
Pretty cool Capt.
I found a source of that file for $7, most of the others I found were 400 grit, even found one with 150 grit!

bergerud
01-16-2014, 02:53 PM
I am going to give that a try. I also have very fine diamond dust Dremel bits I may try. I have a microscope to check results.

Capt Bruce
02-17-2014, 08:48 AM
I am going to give that a try. I also have very fine diamond dust Dremel bits I may try. I have a microscope to check results.

Hi Bergerud,
I want to ask if you had a chance to try sharpening like this. If so did your microscope reveal anything that would help us all? Thanks

RogerB
02-17-2014, 08:53 AM
just found my set of sharpening honse. This is something to try for sure.

bergerud
02-17-2014, 09:01 AM
No, I have not yet given your method a try.

I broke the cutting edges off of the tip of a new (one of Jeff's) carving bit the other day. So, under my microscope, I reshaped and resharpened it with a diamond disc on a Dermel. The ball is now more like a 3/32" ball but it carves fine. A very delicate operation and I think I would only use such a bit for roughing.

Capt Bruce
02-17-2014, 09:09 AM
Thanks,
I have not tried salvaging a broken bit tip but may try it sometime to create as you said, a "roughing-in" bit. Delicate to be sure but if I get more carving life from an otherwise dull bit then nothing lost in the long run. Keep on creating.

ktjwilliams
03-08-2014, 09:40 PM
Sometimes folks over complicate things ... We're talking carbide cutting wood in most cases ... Most times the cutters aren't dull they get a build up of pitch N gum ,,, So a simple cleaning restores the cutter most times .. But TOUCHING up with the drill in reverse is just that a touch up... And the tip can also be touched up in the same manner ...
As one of my shop teachers said " KISS " !!! KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID ..... Oh ,,, I have an "A" machine and am still using the original carving bit with great results ... Proof is in the pudding ...

unitedcases
03-08-2014, 10:06 PM
Original bit? That's impressive. How many hours on that beast?

ktjwilliams
03-09-2014, 05:33 PM
Not sure how many hrs on the bit, but I would say a couple hundred .... Just cleaning the pitch N gum out goes a long way !!! Mostly I've just carved wood but I have also used that bit to carve several pieces in corian ...



Original bit? That's impressive. How many hours on that beast?

lovejoys
06-15-2014, 10:46 PM
Hello, I have a company that re-sharpens my bits. They have a minimum order. They will only do the 1/16th carving bits. So, what I am offering is a bit exchange. You would send me your old bits and I will send you re-sharpened bits. If they are sent with adapters, they will come back with the same kind of adapters. You will not receive the exact bits back as I have a large stock of re-sharpened bits on hand. This eliminates the turn-a-round time. You will handle the shipping to us and we will handle the shipping back to you, US shipping addresses only. I am asking for a minimum order of 5 bits per mailing. Each re-sharpened bit is $20. If you wish to contact us for more information, please send a PM through here. Thank you

CW-HAL9000
06-16-2014, 07:51 PM
The five minimum is hard if you only have a few, I only have 3 and out of those only one needs sharpening. Also new bits are 26-30 on ebay so I am not so sure about spending $20 to sharpen one. Just my 2 cents.

unitedcases
06-16-2014, 09:19 PM
I think everyone has a good point. So what do you do with all your bits then? If the bit comes back like new then isn't that a win? I can only speak for myself as I have many worn bits that could use sharpening.

lovejoys
06-17-2014, 08:10 AM
Ok Guys I do understand that the 5 bit thing is hard for the guy that only use 1-2 bits every 2-3 months this is not a fix for you guy. the cost of shipping and re sharpening is the same as a new bit.
This is set up for the people that are going to use 5-10 bits a month.

rlavelle
06-17-2014, 12:18 PM
are you talking about being able to resharpen the carvetight bits? and also the bit tip?

ktjwilliams
06-17-2014, 12:18 PM
To Expensive !!! $ 20 + shipping to sharpen a bit !!!!

lovejoys
06-17-2014, 05:32 PM
Yes we can do the 1/16th carving bits

zan29
06-18-2014, 04:59 AM
Stupid question but what's the best way to clean your bits?

unitedcases
06-18-2014, 05:54 AM
Stupid question but what's the best way to clean your bits?
I use oven cleaner. Works pretty well.

fwharris
06-18-2014, 10:28 AM
Stupid question but what's the best way to clean your bits?

https://www.google.com/search?q=router+bit+cleaner&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

SteveNelson46
06-18-2014, 11:06 AM
I use the one from Woodcraft. Mostly because I can buy it locally and it works good.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2005396/15321/Formula-2050-Blade-and-Bit-Cleaner-18-Ounce.aspx

CW-HAL9000
06-18-2014, 12:52 PM
Ok Guys I do understand that the 5 bit thing is hard for the guy that only use 1-2 bits every 2-3 months this is not a fix for you guy. the cost of shipping and re sharpening is the same as a new bit. This is set up for the people that are going to use 5-10 bits a month.Wow do people really use 5-10 bits a month? I have had my two machines going on three years. I have about 800 hours carving time on each and other then occasional broken cutting bits my carving bits I have 4 (thought I had three but looked again) and only one of those is really not used any more due to dullness. I guess I am not a power user but I use mine often.

zan29
06-18-2014, 02:19 PM
When I received my CW, it came with two 1/16" bit. The old model and the new one. The old model was used over 250 hrs before getting dull and for the new model, 100 hrs at the most. The newer bit creates more heat which, I assume, dulls the bit faster.

unitedcases
06-18-2014, 02:27 PM
I run 3 machines at a time. I carve nothing but sapele. I pm each of them every 150 and I use a carving but each cycle. I do that about every 3 to 5 weeks. For me they are pretty used by that time. I suppose if your doing nothing but poplar then the life would be pretty extended but that's my take on it. I don't do it as a hobby obviously.

lovejoys
06-18-2014, 09:56 PM
I think a lot of people look at the cut motor time and say it is the same as bit time
I don't think that this is true you need to look at type of wood your cutting and how many Y motor or other part you are going to use.
if you have sharp bit less wear on all parts.
yes you can make the bit do 500 hours it can. but all I am saying is it does cost more in part. or can

unitedcases
06-18-2014, 10:03 PM
I think a lot of people look at the cut motor time and say it is the same as bit time
I don't think that this is true you need to look at type of wood your cutting and how many Y motor or other part you are going to use.
if you have sharp bit less wear on all parts.
yes you can make the bit do 500 hours it can. but all I am saying is it does cost more in part. or can
Another thing is a good sharp bit can save a lot of clean up time.

rlavelle
12-03-2014, 10:28 PM
I haven't heard anything lately about resharpening 1/16th carving bits. Does anyone have any experience with this company that says they can do it. And are we talking the carvetight bits?