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View Full Version : Is 2.0 worth the price?



djarboe
11-23-2013, 03:42 PM
Nice changes, but are they really worth another $200??

dehrlich
11-24-2013, 07:38 PM
I haven't gotten 2.0 yet but I wondered the same thing. Problem is, where else you gonna get it?

CW-HAL9000
11-24-2013, 07:53 PM
At this time I don't think it is, I am also worried that it will be a never ending road of $200. When 3.0 comes out, then 4.0 etc. I am holding out till I really have to have it, kind of a protest.

CW-HAL9000
11-24-2013, 07:54 PM
They are hinting of new things coming out for Christmas, bet they cost $200, LOL.

Ton80
11-24-2013, 07:55 PM
Yeah, but if you decide you really need it at 4.0.. aren't they going to back charge you on all the other versions you skipped? I seem to remember that is how this new structure is working.

CW-HAL9000
11-24-2013, 08:01 PM
Yeah, but if you decide you really need it at 4.0.. aren't they going to back charge you on all the other versions you skipped? I seem to remember that is how this new structure is working.If that is the case then after a few upgrades skipped it will be even harder to justify the purchase! At some point it will be more effective to sell your old machine and put the sale money and the upgrade money into a new machine with the latest version..... Or, just make do.

bergerud
11-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Yeah, but if you decide you really need it at 4.0.. aren't they going to back charge you on all the other versions you skipped? I seem to remember that is how this new structure is working.

I do not think so. If you have bought 2.0, you will get a deal on 3.0. Otherwise 3.0 will be $200. That is how I thought it was stated.

fwharris
11-25-2013, 12:00 AM
I do not think so. If you have bought 2.0, you will get a deal on 3.0. Otherwise 3.0 will be $200. That is how I thought it was stated.

That is my understanding as well. 2.0 does offer some nice enhancements with the text tools additions, improved centerline carving control and I have also noticed better cut out control as well. Not to mention that all new software features will be based on the 2.0 format.

JDPratt
11-25-2013, 08:30 AM
The improved centerline carving control funtions are the best thing I have seen so far. I have had it for a few months now and I still use the old version for most of my projects. I have completed just three projects using 2.0.

Caveat: I am probably not the best person to give a review given my computer ineptitude. I tend to use what I know will work so I stay with the old version for the most part. I was somewhat disheartened when I got it because it crashed a lot and drove me back to the old version for ease of use and reliability.

bergerud
11-25-2013, 08:58 AM
I was somewhat disheartened when I got it because it crashed a lot and drove me back to the old version for ease of use and reliability.

It was true that 2.001 was not so stable. I think 2.002, on the other hand, is more stable than 1.187 was. If not for the want of backward compatibility with other members, I would have left 1.187 in the dust.

rockflier
12-19-2013, 09:49 AM
It was true that 2.001 was not so stable. I think 2.002, on the other hand, is more stable than 1.187 was. If not for the want of backward compatibility with other members, I would have left 1.187 in the dust.
I have a problem with, after being a loyal customer for about 3 years now, having to pay exactly the same price for the upgrade as a person who just bought their CW.Even MS has an upgrade system that gives existing users a substantial discount for buying the new version as it comes out. I love the machine, but this decision has left me with a sour taste in my mouth. I understand the time and expense of developing a new OS, but how about a break for long time users? It appears that every year or so another $200.00 will have to be spent to keep up with changes. A G code machine is looking better and better all the time. Just my 2 cents, make that $200.00, worth.

bergerud
12-19-2013, 10:02 AM
I do not think it will be $200 for every major upgrade, just this first one. I remember seeing a post saying that people who bought the previous upgrade would get a break on the next upgrade.

aokweld101
12-19-2013, 10:27 AM
I feel like its a debtors prison in a way if you don't have the 2.0 you can't see the patterns that are done in 2.0 I believe that the loyal customer ought to have a discount I have $9,000.00 invested in the carvewright and have to have the 2.0 just to be able as a little thing to see what is posted on the forum that is done in the 2.0 format so that if you don't have it the program it going to be where the senior members won't be able to help the next guy that has that format. My feeling is its getting to be like a boat... a hole in the water that you won't be able to fill up it is supposed to be used for hobbies not industrial use, with that in mind how can a hobbyist keep up.

rockflier
12-19-2013, 10:45 AM
SOLD: I agree aokweld. I have a ton invested as well. Having said that, anyone want a 250 hour CW version C? Heavy duty traction belts, new Z truck and bearings, new cut cable, new cut motor brushes, new speed sensor, scanning probe, lots of bits and bit box, Floyd Harris dust collector. Located in Henderson, NV. I have decided to go with a Shopbot machine. Make me an offer. I would prefer to sell it close to here and deliver it in person.

CW-HAL9000
12-19-2013, 12:34 PM
I feel like its a debtors prison in a way if you don't have the 2.0 you can't see the patterns that are done in 2.0 I believe that the loyal customer ought to have a discount I have $9,000.00 invested in the carvewright and have to have the 2.0 just to be able as a little thing to see what is posted on the forum that is done in the 2.0 format so that if you don't have it the program it going to be where the senior members won't be able to help the next guy that has that format. My feeling is its getting to be like a boat... a hole in the water that you won't be able to fill up it is supposed to be used for hobbies not industrial use, with that in mind how can a hobbyist keep up.My point exactly, all though I don't have $9000 invested ( I could never justify that amount on this machine) I just feel overwhelmed with all the add on's and now paying good money for 2.0 and knowing that eventually I will be forced to buy it whether I can afford it or not. And those that say I am not forced to buy it just look at the fact that all new add on's and features are going to require it. soon all new patterns even those for sale will be in the 2.0 or later format. I know that eventually I will be forced to buy it. I am just waiting for a paying job that needs it and I will use that reason to justify it. That is how I justified and payed for centerline, conforming vectors, and the pattern editor with probe. Finally to be honest I just do not see future anything software related coming from this company to be less than $200 since that is their favorite number to charge for things. I want this company to succeed as I have a lot invested in it but I just think their software marketing strategy is an "Apple" strategy when the machine is a hobby or "Dell" machine. They remind often that this is a hobby machine and a way for the hobbyist to get into CNC. They need to remember who their buyers are when marketing the software portions of the machine. I do not believe the add on modules should cost as much as the machine itself. Ok, I am getting off my soapbox before the thread is closed and I am sent to my room without dinner.

rockflier
12-19-2013, 12:57 PM
My point exactly, all though I don't have $9000 invested ( I could never justify that amount on this machine) I just feel overwhelmed with all the add on's and now paying good money for 2.0 and knowing that eventually I will be forced to buy it whether I can afford it or not. And those that say I am not forced to buy it just look at the fact that all new add on's and features are going to require it. soon all new patterns even those for sale will be in the 2.0 or later format. I know that eventually I will be forced to buy it. I am just waiting for a paying job that needs it and I will use that reason to justify it. That is how I justified and payed for centerline, conforming vectors, and the pattern editor with probe. Finally to be honest I just do not see future anything software related coming from this company to be less than $200 since that is their favorite number to charge for things. I want this company to succeed as I have a lot invested in it but I just think their software marketing strategy is an "Apple" strategy when the machine is a hobby or "Dell" machine. They remind often that this is a hobby machine and a way for the hobbyist to get into CNC. They need to remember who their buyers are when marketing the software portions of the machine. I do not believe the add on modules should cost as much as the machine itself. Ok, I am getting off my soapbox before the thread is closed and I am sent to my room without dinner.
My points exactly ICarver. I love the machine, but the software investments have almost equaled hardware investment. Centerline, conforming vectors, etc. My decision to buy a local Shopbot for just about what I have invested in the CW was driven by the software costs of CW. To boot, the Shopbot comes with a ton of software, bits, and accessories. I got lucky I guess. Let us see if the gentleman who agreed to purchase my CW shows up with cash in hand!

tierman
12-19-2013, 02:31 PM
My problem with 2.0 is the latest upgrade that was made to 2.004. It was great that they have added the additional carving depth but I wish that they would have informed us that it was going to cause many headaches if you used a Rock chuck and bits not purchased from CW. Now I get the impression that to be able to stay "sane" I am being forced to update my chuck to the Carvetight. I think that CW has forgotten that the Carvetight evolved from the Rock chuck. Bergerud, it would be great to get your feelings on this. Call me very, very frustrated.
Roger

rockflier
12-19-2013, 02:48 PM
My problem with 2.0 is the latest upgrade that was made to 2.004. It was great that they have added the additional carving depth but I wish that they would have informed us that it was going to cause many headaches if you used a Rock chuck and bits not purchased from CW. Now I get the impression that to be able to stay "sane" I am being forced to update my chuck to the Carvetight. I think that CW has forgotten that the Carvetight evolved from the Rock chuck. Bergerud, it would be great to get your feelings on this. Call me very, very frustrated.
Roger
Roger, from what I have seen, a great many of us are frustrated. Some, such as me, have decided to abandon ship and go elsewhere. A real shame, the basic machine is great. I fear that corporate politics and greed have clouded what started out as a hobbyist's dream. We shall see, I guess. I fear, however, that the die is cast and forebodes a downfall.

lynnfrwd
12-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Roger, from what I have seen, a great many of us are frustrated.

And by "a great many", you mean the 3 maybe 4 vocal forum members on this thread.

rockflier
12-19-2013, 03:09 PM
And by "a great many", you mean the 3 maybe 4 vocal forum members on this thread.
Lynn, if that is the way you perceive it, so be it. Yes, some are more vocal. Only time will tell I guess. I respect your position as CW Staff. I would appreciate the same courtesy. Merry Christmas. (Can we say that here?)

lynnfrwd
12-19-2013, 03:16 PM
Lynn, if that is the way you perceive it, so be it. Yes, some are more vocal. Only time will tell I guess. I respect your position as CW Staff. I would appreciate the same courtesy. Merry Christmas. (Can we say that here?)

We appreciate you stating your opinions and have gotten your feelings on the subject, but find it unfair that you make such a general statement that simply isn't representative of most customers. I understand you have sold your CW and are moving on to a Shopbot. Best of luck to you and BY ALL MEANS...we say "Merry Christmas" here.

rockflier
12-19-2013, 03:27 PM
We appreciate you stating your opinions and have gotten your feelings on the subject, but find it unfair that you make such a general statement that simply isn't representative of most customers. I understand you have sold your CW and are moving on to a Shopbot. Best of luck to you and BY ALL MEANS...we say "Merry Christmas" here.
I have an offer on the CW, but as of yet the cash is not in hand. I thank you for allowing me to state my feelings. My statement was only representative of MY feelings and what i perceive to be the general undertone. If that is false, then that is my faux pas. I will continue to use the CW until I have cash in hand (if this buyer is like a lot of Craigslist buyers, I may never see it LOL). As I stated, I love the machine. I find it to be the best on the market, as far as the machine. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

CW-HAL9000
12-19-2013, 03:55 PM
And by "a great many", you mean the 3 maybe 4 vocal forum members on this thread.As you and others have reminded us the forum is only a small minority of all the carvewright and compucarve users. I also think that many are afraid to be vocal as threads are closed and they tend to get dumped on by some of the moderators and some of the vocal supporters of carvewright. And don't get me wrong I recommend carvewright machines to friends, family members and people at the arts and craft shows I sell at. I overall support LHR and the carvewright machine, I just think the hobbyist and me are being priced out of the market. I know the comparison to big dollar CNC's and Softwares can be made but I am a carvewright owner because it was an affordable hobby machine.

lynnfrwd
12-19-2013, 04:00 PM
Everyone has two choices here:

If you want to stick with only what you paid for in the beginning, we are not taking away your ability to use your machine.

If you want us to continue to grow the system and it's capabilities, add new things that the CW can do and take advantage of these product developments, then you will need to pay for them.

aokweld101
12-19-2013, 05:10 PM
And by "a great many", you mean the 3 maybe 4 vocal forum members on this thread.

I have stated what I felt about the software as when I get on the forum when trying to see what someone has done if its done in 2.0 I can't see it cause I don't have the program A year ago I paid all that money out thinking that I had everything that carvewright had to offer witch it was. But at the same time the people that buy it now get the program as standard issue with the carvewright which leaves me in dust unless I pay the $200.00 that is what I mean by a discount to ones that have the 1.87 we bought the 1.87 for $200.00and now what is standard issue we have to pay another 200.00 for so the ones the have invested are in reality is paying $400.00 for the software that is costing a new user $200.00 that is where my frustration comes in. Don't get me wrong I don't think it should be free But at the same time I don't think we should have to pay double to get the same thing as a new user gets for $200.00 And as forrest Gump said that is all I have to say about that...

lynnfrwd
12-19-2013, 05:14 PM
Designer 2.0 is not standard issue with the CarveWright. They get 1.187 unless they pay the extra $200.

No one paid $200 for 1.187 or earlier versions.

It is currently and has been on sale a couple of times for 10% off. It was also offered to CarversClub members at a discount and to conference attendees at a discount.

aokweld101
12-19-2013, 05:32 PM
My fault, I was assuming that we had to pay for the 1.87 and again what I thought was standard (they) the new user has to pay for so my frustration level went 6 levels lower ....Whew I needed that!!!

rockflier
12-19-2013, 07:21 PM
My fault, I was assuming that we had to pay for the 1.87 and again what I thought was standard (they) the new user has to pay for so my frustration level went 6 levels lower ....Whew I needed that!!!
AOK, now that we have gotten that off of our collective chests I guess it is time to move on. We have been informed that "it is what it is". My "sale" via Craigslist was a bust. The "purchaser" showed up and hemmed and hawed and offered exactly half what we had agreed upon. So, for now at least, I will have the use of 2 machines, 1 of them my CW. Merry Christmas to all!!

gapdev
12-20-2013, 02:01 PM
Vectric updates their VCarve software every year, and they don't just give the newer versions away. I look forward to the updates and don't mind paying for them.

As for your Rock Chuck's not working because of new features that are being added to the software, how is that LHR's fault?

Bergerud posted a work-a-round for the longer bits so you can't use that as an excuse or stab against LHR.

Kenny

tierman
12-20-2013, 04:21 PM
[QUOTE=gapdev;217739]Vectric updates their VCarve software every year, and they don't just give the newer versions away. I look forward to the updates and don't mind paying for them.

As for your Rock Chuck's not working because of new features that are being added to the software, how is that LHR's fault?

Bergerud posted a work-a-round for the longer bits so you can't use that as an excuse or stab against LHR.

Kenny[/QUOTE
Kenny, Not once have I complained about the price as I understand the costs of improvements.My point is #1- it appears to me that the latest upgrade is limiting my use of my machine by making the machine bit and chuck specific. If I had known, in advance, that it would have caused the limitations that it does now with my Rock, I would not have upgraded to the 2.004 and would have stayed with 2.002.
As far as the posting by Bergerud I must admit that I missed that, my bad.

TerryT
12-20-2013, 04:28 PM
As for your Rock Chuck's not working because of new features that are being added to the software, how is that LHR's fault?



I certainly don't want to start a war, but I have fought them before when necessary. With all due respect, How is it LHR's fault that APPLE puts out a OS that is full of pitfalls?
I think you are the one that said "good luck getting Apple to fix YOUR problems." Seems to me that it is a problem with the apple operating system and the way it handles idle aps?.?. There are many software developers that don't even bother trying to have a mac version of their software.

I guess everyone has an opinion and you know what they say about that. LOL

Again, no animostity here, just curious about your comments as they seem contradictory.

gapdev
12-20-2013, 04:40 PM
Terry,

Any programmer that is truly serious about developing programs for multiple systems (Windows - Mac - Linux), will have those systems available for testing on. When I was writing Communications Software (back before the Internet), I had DOS boxes, Windows 98 Boxes, and Windows XP boxes. My software was tested and confirmed to work on all the various systems that I supported.

If LHR claims to have a Mac version of their software, then I expect that version to work. If they don't support Mavericks, they should say so, BEFORE I spend a ton of money buying their upgrades, long bits, and everything else that is version 2 related. It is the developer's job, NOT MINE, to make sure his software works on the platform he/she claims to support.

It surely IS NOT Apple's fault that Designer stopped working, especially since LHR doesn't even have a Mavericks development system.

Now granted, LHR is not a normal Software Developer. But, one of the reasons I purchased the Carvewright is because it has a Mac version of the software. I expect the software to work with my Mac. My Mac should NOT have to adjust to work with their software.

Kenny

gapdev
12-20-2013, 04:43 PM
[QUOTE=gapdev;217739]it appears to me that the latest upgrade is limiting my use of my machine by making the machine bit and chuck specific.

I'll bet that wasn't intentional. Since they don't have a Rock Chuck modified machine, I'm guessing that it never occurred to them that they might cause problems with Rock machines.

Kenny

SteveEJ
12-20-2013, 06:38 PM
LHR.. Any responses to the bit and Rock Chuck questions? I am sure I am not the only one that are wondering if the long bits and software (2.004) are a good option for us with the Rock. I would really want to do deep carving with the machine and new software (I now have the money for it in my piggy bank) but stopped when I read about the issues. Cannot the firmware be made to work with both? I really don't care if it is slower finding the bit plate.

Thanks,

TerryT
12-20-2013, 06:50 PM
But, one of the reasons I purchased the Carvewright is because it has a Mac version of the software. I expect the software to work with my Mac. My Mac should NOT have to adjust to work with their software.

Kenny

Kenny, thanks for the response. I appreciate your point of view. Now a question for LHR. Do you have beta testers on the Mac side? If not, I think there are some here that would volunteer. If so, what happened?

gsdsj
12-20-2013, 06:54 PM
LHR.. Any responses to the bit and Rock Chuck questions? I am sure I am not the only one that are wondering if the long bits and software (2.004) are a good option for us with the Rock. I would really want to do deep carving with the machine and new software (I now have the money for it in my piggy bank) but stopped when I read about the issues. Cannot the firmware be made to work with both? I really don't care if it is slower finding the bit plate.

Thanks,

I with Steve, as I have already purchased 2.004 around Thanksgiving. There was no mention of it would only work with the CT in the description of 2.004 or the FAQs. As for the Maverick thing, I'm glad it got resolved. I own 2 CWs, both with the Rock and need to decide what to do next. An honest answer would be nice. Greg

gapdev
12-20-2013, 07:12 PM
If I still owned my Rock Chuck, I would go with Bergerud's solution to modifying the Long Bits. Heating them up and adjusting them, along with some Loctite 640 Sleeve Retainer, there should no problem modifying the bits to work with the Rock.

I always got Z Errors with my Rock. Whenever I got them I knew I didn't put the bit in far enough. Adjust the Bit to the proper height and the Z errors went away. So, you guys with the Rock already have to be careful with your bits, why should the long bit be any different?

What would be great is knowing where to buy those bits without the Carve Tight adapters and all would be hunky dory! ;)

Kenny

gsdsj
12-20-2013, 07:24 PM
If I still owned my Rock Chuck, I would go with Bergerud's solution to modifying the Long Bits. Heating them up and adjusting them, along with some Loctite 640 Sleeve Retainer, there should no problem modifying the bits to work with the Rock.






What would be great is knowing where to buy those bits without the Carve Tight adapters and all would be hunky dory! ;)

Kenny




I have never had any problems with the Rock, all my bits have functioned properly thru 1.87. As soon as I installed 2.0 the bits zoomed across the rail and flew down deeply into the bit plate. It's not just the long bits, don't own any, it's the standard bits, tried it twice and not willing to take the chance of bending the bit plate anymore. Never an issue before, don't think the CT users need to adjust their bits, why should I? Greg

gsdsj
12-20-2013, 07:33 PM
And by "a great many", you mean the 3 maybe 4 vocal forum members on this thread.

I am sure there members like me that lurk in the background for info on this forum, read several times a day sucking up as much info as I can. Rarely post 70 something posts
since 2008. So how many of us quiet members own a Rock, how about a poll to find out. Greg

bergerud
12-20-2013, 08:12 PM
LHR.. Any responses to the bit and Rock Chuck questions? I am sure I am not the only one that are wondering if the long bits and software (2.004) are a good option for us with the Rock. I would really want to do deep carving with the machine and new software (I now have the money for it in my piggy bank) but stopped when I read about the issues. Cannot the firmware be made to work with both? I really don't care if it is slower finding the bit plate.

Thanks,

LHR has designed the deep carving software and bits for the CT. The bits only come with the CT adapters. These deep bits are impossible to use with the QC or Rock as they are with the installed CT adapters. If put into a 1/2" Rock or 1/2" QC adapter, these long bits will not get above the bit plate. The bits have been made as long as they can possibility be and just get above the bit plate with the CT. (In case you do not know, the CarveTight chuck is almost 1/2" higher than the Rock and the QC and so bits install almost 1/2" higher in the CT. )

This is not an insurmountable problem for the Rock or daring QC user. The adapters on the deep bits just have to be moved or removed. This is easily done with a propane torch.

If you have a 1/2" Rock, all you have to do is heat the adapter and move it down the bit shank 3/8 or 1/2 of an inch. (Note that this procedure also solves the 1/8" cutting bit problem Rock users have had ever since the CT adapters came out.)

If you have a 1/4" Rock, all you have to do is heat the adapter and take it off. Put a collar on the bit so it clears the bit plate by 1/8" and away you go.

If you have a QC, you may still be able to deep carve but you will have to be very careful. Either you have to take off the CT adapter and Loctite the bit into a 1/4" QC adapter, or you have to move the CT adapter down the bit like the 1/2" Rock user and Loctite that into a 1/2" QC adapter. If, however, your QC wobbles or does not hold the QC adapters well, I do not think you should even try the deep carving. Having an $80 bit come out of the QC, rip through your belt, and break, will not make for a good day!

Another note about the new 2.004 bit finding procedure. The procedure has been made more time efficient by having the truck move faster toward the bit plate until it gets near where it expects the bit to touch. All of the standard CW bit lengths are assumed in the procedure. If you have a CT with standard CW bits, all will be well. If, however, you have a non standard bit which is longer than the software expects, it can get slammed into the bit plate causing a z stall. This is what some of the Rock users have experienced. It is not the end of your world! You are using CT adapter bits in your Rock and they are 1/2" too long. Get out the propane torch and move the adapters.

I believe that these bit "length windows" are going to be relaxed in the next release. Maybe an extra 1/2" of grace. (This, I think is for the Rock users who use CT bits.)

SteveEJ
12-20-2013, 08:37 PM
Thanks. That helps. Any opinion as to when the new firmware will be out. I will wait for that to test the bit measurements. Don't need any problems.

lynnfrwd
12-20-2013, 08:39 PM
Good job explaining, berg.

fwharris
12-20-2013, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the updates on how to "work around" the bit length issue for the Rock users and the info on a possible update on the bit find routine. I've been using some longer non CW straight cut bits for pocket cuts that are 1/2" or so longer and had to revert back to the CW 3/8" bit.

liquidguitars
12-20-2013, 08:47 PM
As soon as I installed 2.0 the bits zoomed across the rail and flew down deeply into the bit plate. It's not just the long bits, don't own any, it's the standard bits,


and flew down deeply into the bit plate Anyone else seen this?

Ragesystem
12-20-2013, 09:22 PM
I've noticed on mine lately when it goes over to the bit plate it moves down to touch at a much faster feed except for the last 1/8"

fwharris
12-20-2013, 09:30 PM
I've noticed on mine lately when it goes over to the bit plate it moves down to touch at a much faster feed except for the last 1/8"

The same...

SteveEJ
12-20-2013, 09:53 PM
So if the bits offset 1/2" longer because of the CT adapter in a 1/2" Rock, that would put it in faster travel mode when it hit the bit plate. That would be a definite problem. The firmware change that was described would put it up 1/2" + 1/8" which should solve the problem.

I do have a question. Are the longer bits set in the software by a bit selection option or does the machine adjust based on the final cut/carving depth?

Thanks,

SteveEJ
12-20-2013, 09:55 PM
I ask this as to how does the machine know whether a short or long bit is being used..

liquidguitars
12-20-2013, 09:57 PM
In Designer you select the "long bit" in the preferences...

tierman
12-21-2013, 07:05 AM
Bergerud, thank you very much for the explanation and help, this has cleared a lot of frustration on my part. LG, the same for my operation but to add a little more, I have noticed also that when the bit slows before the bit plate wne it does contact the bit plate it pushes it down considerably more then it previously did(at least 1/8") also when the bit finds the board top surface the bit pressure onto the board is enough to put an indentation into the board surface( previously just touched off on surface) Hope this is a help. Again thank you. Roger

SteveEJ
12-21-2013, 08:14 AM
Thanks Brandon.

Merry Christmas all!

Woodpecker
12-21-2013, 08:42 AM
A different point of view. If the cost of learning is high? What is the cost of ignorance?
I certainly don't like school. I don't like to spend money. I can't keep up with technology, so to spend a few dollars on
a hobby and the pleasure of learning. Us old guys must just enjoy what we can afford. This teaches you new ideas, math, carving,
art and makes new friends. Like a credit card commercial "PRICELESS!"
Woodpecker :roll:

bergerud
12-21-2013, 09:46 AM
I have noticed also that when the bit slows before the bit plate wne it does contact the bit plate it pushes it down considerably more then it previously did(at least 1/8") also when the bit finds the board top surface the bit pressure onto the board is enough to put an indentation into the board surface( previously just touched off on surface).

I have noticed the harder push at the bit plate even before these changes were made. It was always because the bit was longer than expected. I have not had the hard push at the board surface. Hopefully, 2.005 will behave more gently.

rockflier
12-21-2013, 05:57 PM
I have noticed the harder push at the bit plate even before these changes were made. It was always because the bit was longer than expected. I have not had the hard push at the board surface. Hopefully, 2.005 will behave more gently.

Is there anywhere published what the expected bit lengths for specific bits are? I notice that 1.87 "appears" to be more quickly approaching the bit plate. I use many non LHR bits and this information would greatly aid me. Specifically my keyhole, v, and cutting bits are non LHR. Any help would be appreciated.

bergerud
12-21-2013, 06:33 PM
If they relax the length parameters, it should not be a problem. Otherwise, I suppose we will have to measure all the bits and make a table.

rockflier
12-21-2013, 06:50 PM
If they relax the length parameters, it should not be a problem. Otherwise, I suppose we will have to measure all the bits and make a table.

True, but unfortunately I am not going to upgrade the Designer 2 so I am stuck with your suggestion.

bergerud
12-21-2013, 07:14 PM
The real problem with bit lengths is in 2.004. 1.187 is the way I wish it would stay. You have to put in a pretty long bit in 1.187 to cause a problem.

rockflier
12-21-2013, 07:50 PM
The real problem with bit lengths is in 2.004. 1.187 is the way I wish it would stay. You have to put in a pretty long bit in 1.187 to cause a problem.

Thanks loads Bergerud. I have seen very rapid rates of approach to the bit plate in 1.87. Thus far no problems but I am going to use a new carving bit that is longer than standard and was concerned. My deep reach 3 flute end mill is also .25" longer than the LHR cutting bit. If you foresee no problem I will give it a go. Thanks again, your help, among others, has been invaluable to me.

Capt Bruce
12-21-2013, 07:53 PM
Very timely Ladies and Gentlemen,

I went to carve my first project designed completely in 2.004 after upgrading. Using a Rock Chuck in a B model CW. Was hoping to see what the improved Centerline function would yield. I uploaded the project to a card and as suggested I updated the machine code to 2.004's version from 1.187 to get all the new features. Foolish me trying to improve things.

66579 And doesn't this always happen when you are doing an important commission under a short time limit.

Every thing went well loading until it went to measure my CT collared 1/16" carving bit in the Rock. Slammed down hard into the bit plate and immediately signaled stall error. Checked everything and wasted time checking/cleaning rails and such until I thought to take out the card and go upload the same project to another card. This time, having suspected it was the new machine code, I did not flash the card.

Success, even though it took about a half hour longer to carve the plaque than had been estimated originally.

I opened the Forum this evening to report, and found this already being diagnosed here and discussed. Thanks for the confirmation Dan and others that I did nothing wrong, but I will have to find a way to deal with that extra 3/8" to 1/2" of bit length. Have to do some experimenting on my B model CW using aftermarket bits in slip on collet adapters. For the time being I guess I just stop buying CT bits at the CarveWright Store until this is resolved with a new release of the code. Not all that bothersome except that I work with both a B unit equipped with the Rock and a C Anniversary model with the CT. This will mean I have to segregate all my bits to different machines and double check them for each project as well as segregating my various cards to 1.187 and 2.004 language. Had not expected these new Pain In The A** problems with the 2.004 software improvement.

Old dog, new tricks and slow of learning. Thanks for the good reasoning and analysis of what we're all facing to move ahead. And Merry Christmas All.

fwharris
12-21-2013, 08:05 PM
The real problem with bit lengths is in 2.004. 1.187 is the way I wish it would stay. You have to put in a pretty long bit in 1.187 to cause a problem.

I "was" using a couple of long straight 1/2" and 3/8" bit for pocket cuts. The 1/2" has just under a 1/2" clearance and the 3/8" just over 1/2" at the bit plate and had no issues.

dehrlich
12-21-2013, 08:12 PM
Sounds like there are still some bugs to work out here. Think I will hold off a bit, although I don't have any "long" bits. Are the problems limited to the long bits?

lynnfrwd
12-21-2013, 08:47 PM
No. The problem is with the length of the rock chuck and how 2.004 tries to more time efficient.

gsdsj
12-21-2013, 10:46 PM
No. The problem is with the length of the rock chuck and how 2.004 tries to more time efficient.

Okay, so finally someone from LHR says it's a "problem" with the Rock. So again I ponder why it was not disclosed the CT was a requirement to 2.0 or mentioned in the FAQs?
I already own 2.0 and would like to have the issue resolved. I appreciate the work around others have mentioned but it would have been nice to know before purchasing.
I would still be interested in seeing how many people are using the Rock in a poll. Greg

fwharris
12-21-2013, 11:10 PM
Okay, so finally someone from LHR says it's a "problem" with the Rock. So again I ponder why it was not disclosed the CT was a requirement to 2.0 or mentioned in the FAQs?
I already own 2.0 and would like to have the issue resolved. I appreciate the work around others have mentioned but it would have been nice to know before purchasing.
I would still be interested in seeing how many people are using the Rock in a poll. Greg

My best guess on why there were not any statements about any issues with the Rock chuck was that they only tested it with the CarveTight chuck as that is their current design.

Capt Bruce
12-21-2013, 11:16 PM
I'm with you on that Floyd. As I mentioned and others have noted we'll just have to work around this for now and see what may be changed to help accommodate the various chuck and bit combinations our colleagues use. Please keep adding notes and measurements here for everyones' benefit as we work through solutions. Thanks All.

lynnfrwd
12-21-2013, 11:22 PM
Correct. We did not test on third party and did not know. It is designed for CT. I don't think we even have one. I believe they are easing up on it in 2.005.

gsdsj
12-22-2013, 12:00 AM
Connie, thanks for your honesty and hopefully some relief in 2.005. I would be more than willing to run any tests with the Rock and working
on a Mac if you need assistance. Greg

liquidguitars
12-22-2013, 01:46 AM
Had not expected these new Pain In The A** problems with the 2.004 software improvement.

Hi Bruce, LHR never gave the testers a final release version to try or any bits so sorry for the hassle we would of reported it for you and for us :) . I would roll back to the old firmware like I doing right now and all will work fine. You do not need to uninstall designer, just rename the new firmware file and load the old one but don't use the long bits until LHR can fix it for the guys that ordered them...

eelamb
12-22-2013, 07:58 AM
If LHR makes changes to the software to accommodate the rock chuck, ALL rock users with designer 2.X need to tell them thank you.
Software written by LHR is for their machine design. They can not possibly test all variations of third party add on.
Remember the CT upgrade is still a choice.

bergerud
12-22-2013, 09:10 AM
The Rock is not the problem. The problem is using CT bits with the Rock. The Rock is no different in length than the QC it was designed to replace. If you use the CT bits in the QC, you will have the same problems.

The thing is that the bit find of the past was so open that the Rock users could get away with using CT bits. The extra 1/2" bit length was ok. Now with the tightening up of the procedure, the Rock uses cannot get away with it anymore. It was sort of a mistake. (LHR likes selling CT bits to Rock users, don't you think?) The procedure was tested for the CT and the QC but the CT bit in the Rock thing was not considered. (With all of the things to consider with the deep bit change over, I am sure, the Rock with CT bits was not even on the list!)

I have been fighting this change for other reasons. I like to experiment and I do not like more restrictions. I do not like it that LG's trick of running through all the bit tests with just the carving bit will not work anymore. I do not like it that if a user has a senior moment and puts in the wrong bit in a mult bit project, he may get a stall and project abort. I do not like it if bits get damaged (chipped) by the ram into the bit plate. (I do not like it that it nearly breaks my dust cap right off the carriage!) I regard these as bigger problems than users having to initially adjust their CT bit length for the Rock.

All of these potential problems just to speed up the procedure just does not add up for me. I would rather just keep the old procedure.

I am happy that the tightening will be relaxed some. Hopefully that will effectively be a return to the old procedure.

Capt Bruce
12-22-2013, 09:32 AM
Hi Bruce, LHR never gave the testers a final release version to try or any bits so sorry for the hassle we would of reported it for you and for us :) . I would roll back to the old firmware like I doing right now and all will work fine. You do not need to uninstall designer, just rename the new firmware file and load the old one but don't use the long bits until LHR can fix it for the guys that ordered them...

Many thanks Brandon, Connie and All

I understand completely on the pre-release testing of 2.00x and that we cannot expect our LHR Team to anticipate every single variation we users make and use out here in sawdust land. Perhaps my expression was too dramatic. More of a "pain in the neck" because I thought I had waited the correct amount of time for the usual period of discovery and adjustment of the system after this new software came out with all the new capabilities. I want them all and was quick to order the new long carving bit when it was announced.

Yes, I followed the same logic you advise and kept Ver. 1.187 on my PC as a back up in case I encountered problems as I got used to this new pair of shoes.

To make sure I don't muck up things further, can you advise just which file by name is "the new firmware file?"

Thanks as always Folks and Merry Christmas!

skeeterman
12-22-2013, 09:34 AM
i agree with this wholeheartedly, i use my carving bit to do all the touching bit plate and measurements before actual carving then when new bit is called for the question is to refind or continue, saves all the dadgum changing of the bits back and forth which SAVES time. so i believe i will stick with 1.187
steve
I have been fighting this change for other reasons. I like to experiment and I do not like more restrictions. I do not like it that LG's trick of running through all the bit tests with just the carving bit will not work anymore. I do not like it that if a user has a senior moment and puts in the wrong bit in a mult bit project, he may get a stall and project abort.

SteveEJ
12-22-2013, 10:27 AM
Good thoughts Skeeterman.. BTW: I have caught a bug and also had transmission problems with the wife's car so I have been delayed getting the pictures. Hopefully tomorrow if the fever breaks. Sorry..

lynnfrwd
12-22-2013, 10:47 AM
I like to experiment and I do not like more restrictions. I do not like it that LG's trick of running through all the bit tests with just the carving bit will not work anymore. I do not like it that if a user has a senior moment and puts in the wrong bit in a mult bit project, he may get a stall and project abort.

Lol! Was I the only one that had a Dr. Suess moment with this?

Merry Christmas to all!

DickB
12-22-2013, 11:07 AM
I do not like it that LG's trick of running through all the bit tests with just the carving bit will not work anymore.As long as we're griping - I mean, making suggestions - is that initial bit testing needed? On projects where I am carving and making vector cuts, cutouts, and drilling all with the 1/18" cutting bit, I am prompted to load the same 1/8" bit more than once. It would save a lot of time and cycling of the cut motor and my DC via iSwitch if this could be at least optionally eliminated. Why is is that the necessary bit can't be loaded only immediately before its use?

Ton80
12-22-2013, 11:19 AM
I am sure there members like me that lurk in the background for info on this forum, read several times a day sucking up as much info as I can. Rarely post 70 something posts
since 2008. So how many of us quiet members own a Rock, how about a poll to find out. Greg


I own the ROCK. Not sure what is going on with the ROCK, Designer 2 or Mavericks but all 3 issues would affect me so I better dig in a little deeper and find out what's going on.

I won't update from the ROCK unless I purchase a new machine. The ROCK chuck saved me at a time when LHR has no alternatives to a OEM part that was prone to failure.

I have been considering the upgrade to 2.0 strictly for the improvements in Centerline ( personally wish they just offered that as a cheaper upgrade to the Centerline plugin but we don't always get what we want... ) but I'm still on the fence and certainly won't make an upgrade if it's not working on Mavericks ( which I still haven't updated to but will at some point ). I thought I had read somewhere that Mavericks and Designer were working well because I checked it off my list of "must have work" applications if I upgrade my OS.. I Better dig in a little deeper to determine if this is more specific of an issue to Designer 2.x and Mavericks...


As far as the complaints for paying for the upgrades... You can't expect a company to survive if they can only sell you a machine and serviceable parts alone. Sooner or later they saturate the market and need to make money elsewhere. You also can't expect them to give you ( major ) software upgrades for free, at least not in this market of CNC based software when no other company does business that way.

lynnfrwd
12-22-2013, 11:44 AM
A fix for Maverick has been posted. Go turn off their new "App Nap" feature.

Ton80
12-22-2013, 11:48 AM
A fix for Maverick has been posted. Go turn off their new "App Nap" feature.


Thanks for saving me from hunting down that info, Connie!

bergerud
12-22-2013, 12:12 PM
As long as we're griping - I mean, making suggestions - is that initial bit testing needed? On projects where I am carving and making vector cuts, cutouts, and drilling all with the 1/18" cutting bit, I am prompted to load the same 1/8" bit more than once. It would save a lot of time and cycling of the cut motor and my DC via iSwitch if this could be at least optionally eliminated. Why is is that the necessary bit can't be loaded only immediately before its use?

That is what I have always said. Measure the bit when you use it. We can hope that a future release might do just that.

bergerud
12-22-2013, 12:14 PM
Lol! Was I the only one that had a Dr. Suess moment with this?



Dan I am. I do not like long bits and bam.

liquidguitars
12-22-2013, 01:15 PM
I do not like it that LG's trick of running through all the bit tests with just the carving bit will not work anymore.

Not really mine I found this useful trick on the board about three years ago. From what I was told this will be fixed...

One thing I noticed on the beta firmware " about two months old and works well" is the " indexing point" will remember the last spot you placed it.

rockflier
12-22-2013, 02:32 PM
Lol! Was I the only one that had a Dr. Suess moment with this?

Merry Christmas to all!

Lynn, along with a Dr. Seuss moment I had a Senior Moment. You are not alone at all Sir. LOL (I just read back and found that you are Connie, and NOT a Sir. My apologies Ma'am.)

lynnfrwd
12-22-2013, 02:44 PM
Lol no problem. Lynn is my middle name and I live in Friendswood (frwd).

Connie

rockflier
12-22-2013, 02:45 PM
i agree with this wholeheartedly, i use my carving bit to do all the touching bit plate and measurements before actual carving then when new bit is called for the question is to refind or continue, saves all the dadgum changing of the bits back and forth which SAVES time. so i believe i will stick with 1.187
steve
I have been fighting this change for other reasons. I like to experiment and I do not like more restrictions. I do not like it that LG's trick of running through all the bit tests with just the carving bit will not work anymore. I do not like it that if a user has a senior moment and puts in the wrong bit in a multi bit project, he may get a stall and project abort.
Skeeterman, I have never had to use the refind or continue options. Guess I have been lucky. If I select the continue option does it use the original bit measurement? If I select the refind option, will it measure the new bit and use those measurements? Thanks!

rockflier
12-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Lol no problem. Lynn is my middle name and I live in Friendswood (frwd).

Connie

Ahaaa, I used to live in the Woodlands when our planes were based in Conroe. I guess at my advanced age I can be forgiven LOL. In any case, Merry Christmas!

fwharris
12-22-2013, 02:51 PM
If you use "continue" it will use the new measurement of the bit you have in at the time. With refind it will re measure the bit and compare it to what it was on the start up routine and you will probably get the same error message.

lynnfrwd
12-22-2013, 02:51 PM
Nothing to forgive.

Merry Christmas!!

rockflier
12-22-2013, 03:05 PM
If you use "continue" it will use the new measurement of the bit you have in at the time. With refind it will re measure the bit and compare it to what it was on the start up routine and you will probably get the same error message.
Thanks, Floyd. Next time I am in Greeley, I owe you a beer, errrr coffee. Kurt

fwharris
12-22-2013, 03:25 PM
Thanks, Floyd. Next time I am in Greeley, I owe you a beer, errrr coffee. Kurt

No problem and I do drink both ;)!

rockflier
12-22-2013, 03:40 PM
No problem and I do drink both ;)!
As I recall, the guys you and I ran around with from Kersey and Gill got us into both habits. LOL

fwharris
12-22-2013, 04:59 PM
as i recall, the guys you and i ran around with from kersey and gill got us into both habits. Lol



tmi!!!! ;)

mister_zed
02-04-2014, 04:37 AM
The real problem with bit lengths is in 2.004. 1.187 is the way I wish it would stay. You have to put in a pretty long bit in 1.187 to cause a problem.

Well, I have noticed that 1.187 has problem with bit lengths and QC.

I still use the QC (yes, I know I am a dinosaur!) and when I insert the standard 1/16 carving bit that came with the machine I almost always get Z-truck stalled while positioning the bit in the beginning of the carve. When I insert one of the aftermarket bits that I have mounted slightly "shorter" I never get this problem.

Using pre-1.187 version does not give me the Z-truck stall error either.

bergerud
02-04-2014, 09:16 AM
Do you mean a stall at the bit plate or a different type of stall later at the board? I have a higher bit plate on my dust cap (replacing the OEM bit plate) and an ER20 spindle which is low like the Rock and QC. If anyone should get that problem, I should. I have not noticed it.

Woodpecker
02-04-2014, 02:10 PM
I am not sure about the problem. I just stay with the 2.0 and the new chuck. I can't afford to ruin good wood.

jab73180
03-04-2014, 01:10 PM
Has 2.0 been upgraded to 2.005 yet?

liquidguitars
03-04-2014, 01:16 PM
They are close. I not been able to test this week but i think the Rock works fine now.

Woodpecker
03-04-2014, 04:36 PM
I think the new 2.0 upgrade is worth the money. It certainly does help with your own creations. You may want to look at the new machine and find out what comes with it. I always use a % cost to value when upgrading or repairing. Just divide the cost by the new item and see if it is worth a new machine. Especially if it comes with all of the upgrades and software. The 2.0 is a fun program and it is something to just watch the videos. Perhaps you should watch the videos and see its capabilities first. I go back and watch the videos just because I cant remember everything that it does. That is age related:D. Have fun and let me know what you have decided. Woodpecker

edzbaker
03-18-2014, 03:52 PM
I was looking to see if there was a "Trial" version of Designer 2.0, and I don't see one. Am I overlooking it, or is there not one ?

Thanks

lynnfrwd
03-18-2014, 04:00 PM
I was looking to see if there was a "Trial" version of Designer 2.0, and I don't see one. Am I overlooking it, or is there not one ?

Thanks

2.0 can be downloaded and played with for 30 days.

fwharris
03-18-2014, 04:01 PM
Ed,

Just go to the software page and down load the 2.xxx version. http://www.carvewright.com/support-page/getting-started/update2/

edzbaker
03-18-2014, 04:13 PM
Thank you Connie and Floyd. Getting old causes two things to stop working so good, first is the eyesight, and, I can't remember what the second thing was.

Thanks again... I will give it a try.

edzbaker
03-18-2014, 04:22 PM
Well now I have another question. After installing 2.05 and opening it up, my computer restarted and now when I try to open designer 2.5 it says my trial period is over.
Has that happened to anyone lately ? I may have to buy it to try it. That was a Quick 30 days. (It's possible that the Aliens flew by I guess)

lynnfrwd
03-18-2014, 04:36 PM
Well now I have another question. After installing 2.05 and opening it up, my computer restarted and now when I try to open designer 2.5 it says my trial period is over.
Has that happened to anyone lately ? I may have to buy it to try it. That was a Quick 30 days. (It's possible that the Aliens flew by I guess)

Did you ever have it as a trial version before?

edzbaker
03-18-2014, 05:16 PM
Connie no, I haven't tried it before. I kept telling myself that 1.187 did all I need to do, but now I think I'm changing my mind. Tell me something, I have DXF importer and STL importer, along with the Pattern Editor and Conforming Text. Will they still work with 1.187 AND 2.0 if I purchase 2.0 ?? As long as I have them both installed on my PC ??

Thank you

lynnfrwd
03-18-2014, 05:20 PM
Connie no, I haven't tried it before. I kept telling myself that 1.187 did all I need to do, but now I think I'm changing my mind. Tell me something, I have DXF importer and STL importer, along with the Pattern Editor and Conforming Text. Will they still work with 1.187 AND 2.0 if I purchase 2.0 ?? As long as I have them both installed on my PC ??

Thank you

Yes, you just cannot have both 1.X & 2.X running at the same time. Remember anything saved or created in 2.X is not backward compatible with 1.X.

Designer 2.0 demo: Each time you open it, you should be able to use it by clicking continue without registration until the 30 days is up. What operating system is this on? Try right click and Run As Administrator to open Designer 2.X

edzbaker
03-18-2014, 05:23 PM
Connie, Thank you for trying to help. I un-installed it, re-installed it, ran as Administrator, all to no avail. I will purchase 2.x and solve the problem with a license.
Thanks again

Ed

Woodpecker
03-19-2014, 07:16 AM
Just as you think you have it all, they come out with something new!
We just can't keep up. Perhaps CW has a way of communicating better with their customers regarding availability,
compatibility, affordability and proper demonstration of the product features and benefits. They have wonderful products and the
technology is incredible. They just don't have a sales program to help tie it all together.
Thanks! :confused: :lol:
Woodpecker

SteveNelson46
03-19-2014, 09:54 AM
Just as you think you have it all, they come out with something new!
We just can't keep up. Perhaps CW has a way of communicating better with their customers regarding availability,
compatibility, affordability and proper demonstration of the product features and benefits. They have wonderful products and the
technology is incredible. They just don't have a sales program to help tie it all together.
Thanks! :confused: :lol:
Woodpecker

I'm not sure that they want one. It's a marketing technique.

200k
03-19-2014, 11:00 AM
A few questions on Designer 2.0 that haven't been answered in this thread or any other that I know of:

1. I know you can run 1.187 and 2.0x on the same computer (but not at the same time) and that projects saved in 2.0 cannot be edited in 1.187. But, does the CW machine itself need an update for 2.0x that will negate its use by 1.187?
2. Can you edit projects made in 1.187 in 2.0x (backward compatible)?
3. Can you put 1.187 projects and 2.0x projects on the Memory Card at the same time and will both be available?
4. Do you need to update the Memory Card to the 2.0x software?

My understanding of how much of a "computer" is actually inside the CarveWright is very limited, so these may be idiotic questions. If there is no actual processor in the CW then there shouldn't be any need of any software updates for this non-existent processor.

200k

fwharris
03-19-2014, 11:07 AM
A few questions on Designer 2.0 that haven't been answered in this thread or any other that I know of:

1. I know you can run 1.187 and 2.0x on the same computer (but not at the same time) and that projects saved in 2.0 cannot be edited in 1.187. But, does the CW machine itself need an update for 2.0x that will negate its use by 1.187?
No you do not need to update the firmware on the card to 2.xxx but probably should for the better/improved logic.

2. Can you edit projects made in 1.187 in 2.0x (backward compatible)?
Yes you can..

3. Can you put 1.187 projects and 2.0x projects on the Memory Card at the same time and will both be available?
Yes...

4. Do you need to update the Memory Card to the 2.0x software?

See above...

My understanding of how much of a "computer" is actually inside the CarveWright is very limited, so these may be idiotic questions. If there is no actual processor in the CW then there shouldn't be any need of any software updates for this non-existent processor.

200k

See comments above...

CW-HAL9000
03-19-2014, 11:21 AM
I'm not sure that they want one. It's a marketing technique.

I don't understand what you are saying? How is it a marketing technique?

lynnfrwd
03-19-2014, 12:01 PM
I don't understand what you are saying? How is it a marketing technique?


I'm waiting to hear the answer to this, as well.

200k
03-19-2014, 12:15 PM
See comments above...

thanks, fwharris. Short and to the point.

Maybe sometime you could talk about how the logic works and how it is improved? That's assuming we could even understand the subject.

200k

200k

fwharris
03-19-2014, 12:34 PM
thanks, fwharris. Short and to the point.

Maybe sometime you could talk about how the logic works and how it is improved? That's assuming we could even understand the subject.

200k

200k

Your welcome and yes that is me, just the fact. Not to long on words. For the better description and the logic behind it I will leave that up to the firmware lord and the others who do all that great work behind the scene.

RMarkey
03-19-2014, 01:05 PM
As for firmware, the short answer is that I won't be adding anything new to the 1.xxx line of code. What works in 1.187 firmware will always work on 1.187 designer, or older.

Keep 1.187 firmware if you want to keep compatibility for designer 1.124 or older. Hopefully you've upgraded by now.

Keep 1.186 firmware if you have one of the original beta machines. Not 'A', not 'B', not 'C', but 'beta'.

So far new firmware is still backwards compatible to 1.xxx. If that ever changes, I'll make sure to include it in the release notes.

cestout
03-19-2014, 02:55 PM
Watch out for "Floor Feather" doing some strange things to projects from earlier versions. For instance, the edges of a design on the back of a board could cut thru to the front - and you will see an unwanted deep groove around the pattern. Uncheck Floor Feather to fix this problem.
Clint

lynnfrwd
03-19-2014, 03:00 PM
Watch out for "Floor Feather" doing some strange things to projects from earlier versions. For instance, the edges of a design on the back of a board could cut thru to the front - and you will see an unwanted deep groove around the pattern. Uncheck Floor Feather to fix this problem.
Clint


Uncheck Floor Feather only if it is a problem.

Woodpecker
03-19-2014, 05:36 PM
With the new hardware and software able to cut like a lathe it is time for me to sit back and wait for a 36" wide cut path. Table legs and so on which require 29" cuts. This leap frog cost is costing more than the hobby is worth. In my sales days the value should always exceed the cost. I am not feeling that value with the changes at this time. It is like the old patterns which were downloaded prior to the new ownership. Now I must pay for what I already had. Business is business, and I may refuse to do business when the cost exceeds the value. The American Free Enterprise is working well. With that lets carve out the government and live like America with value, price, product, service and a hand shake!
Woodpecker

lynnfrwd
03-19-2014, 06:01 PM
Woodpecker:

Isn't that what is so great about the CarveWright System?!

You got into CNC at a low cost that you, most likely, would NEVER have been able to even dream of ten years ago. Now, you evidently, had a plan from the beginning and you have the freedom of choice to KEEP YOUR PLAN.

What's even better, for others that are interested, they can expand their system and are not being FORCED to purchase something they don't need or want.




It is like the old patterns which were downloaded prior to the new ownership. Now I must pay for what I already had.

I don't know what this means. What are you talking about?

Woodpecker
03-19-2014, 07:09 PM
It is best to keep everything positive on this issue. I love my CW. I am making every effort to get to the Tampa show on Friday and perhaps stay over and visit again on Saturday. If it weren't for CW my old timer pocket knife would be worn out by now. The people are fantastic, the machine is great and the technology is like "where was this when I was a kid?" I think the CW should be mandatory education. I was in the finance world all of my life and now I must go back and remember angles and stuff. Just how good can it get? My only concern is what I said the technology and cost is so fast, I just can't keep up with it. Age related issues. You youngsters won't understand yet!
Woodpecker

luckettg
04-20-2014, 02:14 PM
Any news about getting the 2.0 to work while using the Rock Chuck?

bergerud
04-20-2014, 02:33 PM
If you are referring to the problems with 2.004, the changes have been reversed. 2.005 has the same bit plate measuring behavior as 1.187 did. So, I think the Rock will again work as good as it ever did.

Woodpecker
04-20-2014, 02:53 PM
When you get the 2.0 new opportunities open up for cuts I have never even thought of. Designing your own patters with puffing regions, arches and the ability to expand shapes with offsets for things like a brick front for a doll house. Overlap of deigns to create new objects of interest. Yes it is worth it. I don't use the rock chuck. The new chuck from CW is great.
Woodpecker

luckettg
04-20-2014, 04:47 PM
I am happy to hear this. I purchased the Designer 2.0 upgrade several months ago, and like the nice adders, but it would not home the z axis correctly. I then went back to the 1.187 version. Now, I will try the newest 2.005. Thanks.
I had asked Customer Service about it a month ago, but it was no help, and as usual this forum is excellent.

lynnfrwd
04-20-2014, 06:56 PM
It's only been out maybe a month. Make sure you are signed up for the newsletter.

luckettg
04-20-2014, 07:11 PM
It turned out that I already had v.2.005. I have not tried it yet and did not realize the homing problem had been fixed. Next project will be using it.
Thanks.

Smoken D
04-21-2014, 08:34 AM
Next month I will be able to upgrade, will probably wait till the holiday weekend. I think CW offers 10% discount that weekend and will help. :D And besides will be our 25th that weekend. Ifen my 1st had lived would have been our 40th. But it was great!

Woodpecker
04-21-2014, 05:40 PM
Sorry; I am not informed about the Rock-Chuck. As I have stated before I try to stay with the OEM. In most situations this avoids any conflict or issues with the design or conflict with the equipment.
I can't even get vacuum cleaner parts to match.
Woodpecker

Woodpecker
04-21-2014, 05:52 PM
To Smokin D.
It only gets better. Life has many, many trials and we are tested each day to see if we can handle it.
Just think about what you may carve to see a smile! Or lucky you; carve a smile!
Woodpecker

luckettg
04-21-2014, 08:14 PM
I would not have gone to an after market chuck if there had been an alternative that worked. The original chuck was a piece of crap, never worked correctly on my machine, etc. LHR was no help with this. Once I got the Rock Chuck, my CarveWright actually worked well. It is a Dec 2007 model.

Woodpecker
04-21-2014, 09:15 PM
Oh I agree the first chuck wasn't all that great. I have one in a box attached to the "A" model machine. I can relate to it well as years ago I restored a Model A Ford from the ground up and it is amazing how even 40 MPH was a stress on the old babbet bearings and the rear end had to have the old 120 weight oil along with leaded gas to keep it from knocking. I no longer drive a ford and certainly not a 1929 model. The new High tech is a new adventure for me and I never, ever want to go back. In fact if you take the speedometer cable out of a 1954 or later ford with the mechanical speedometer cable you will find the same cable used in the new and old CW. We used graphite lube and they use lithium grease. It is so wonderful to be here with theses little problems! Thank You for bringing this up.
Woodpecker

lynnfrwd
04-22-2014, 07:37 AM
I think we are getting a little off topic here and we don't put lithium grease on the flex shaft. (if that's what you were saying).

chkorte
04-25-2014, 10:23 PM
OK, so I’m thinking I might want to upgrade project designer to 2.0 so I read all the previous comments. It sounds like they’re getting the bugs worked out but I still have concerns about how it will work with the RC. When I bought my CW I put a RC on it before I did my first carve because I couldn’t use it with the QC and LHR didn’t have anything else available. I have about 70% use of my left arm/hand and about 30% use of my right so using the QC wasn’t going to be an option. I have worked out a way to use my CW with my RC but it still can take me 20 minutes to change a bit when my arms are giving me problems so I don’t need the hassle of a new program making me install every bit I need to use for a carve before the carve even begins. I know that there is a 30 day free trial for 2.0 but that won’t allow me to upload and try a carve. I’m probably going to give the 30 day free trial a try to see if I like it but I want to know my RC will work as it did before I put out $200.

luckettg
04-25-2014, 11:36 PM
If you can wait I will try the latest 2.005 version to see if it will work well with the RC. I last tried the v2 in Jan or Feb, may have upgraded it to 2.005 but may have already tried it in the first place. I will give it a test tomorrow. I feel LHR burned me with this $200 upgrade that did not work and am hoping the latest version will work.

bergerud
04-25-2014, 11:38 PM
As far as I understand, the bit finding routines of 2.005 are the same as they were for 1.187. The problem was with 2.004 and that has past.

lynnfrwd
04-26-2014, 12:33 AM
I know that it slows down before it hits the bit plate with 2.005, so no z-stall, but I'm not sure if the "one bit" trick works again....

luckettg
04-26-2014, 07:18 AM
Does it work with the long and the short bits in the RC?

lynnfrwd
04-26-2014, 08:09 AM
Someone using a rock will have to confirm, but I think so.

bergerud
04-26-2014, 08:35 AM
The one bit trick does works again. I do not have a Rock but I use one ER chuck which is long like the Rock and I have a bit plate which is higher. The deep bits with the Rock are a different story. There is not enough room for them to fit in the 1/2" Rock and be above the bit plate. One would have to move the position of the press on adapters. For the 1/4" Rock, one would have to remove the press on adapters. It is risky, however, to trying holding these bits by the bare 1/4" shank. They tend vibrate and "walk out" even in the tightest grips. I am waiting for someone with a 1/4" Rock to report on this.

Woodpecker
04-26-2014, 09:07 AM
chcorte; I don't know anything about the RC. First let's hope that using the CW will help you bring back your dexterities. Changing bits as I understand it is necessary depending on the cut. Perhaps you could stick to patterns with limited or no bit changes.
Woodpecker

bergerud
04-26-2014, 10:42 AM
I was wondering if the CT may be easier to use than the Rock. Both have Allen wrenches but the Rock also has separate adapters. Is one easier than the other? Maybe someone with both can comment.

DocWheeler
04-26-2014, 11:07 AM
Dan,
I have not used a CT chuck, however,
I have both Ron's 1/2" and 1/4" Rock chucks.
I have not used my 1/2" chuck since I replaced my
normally used 1/2" shank bits with 1/4" ones.
However, I use an 1/8" bit in my 1/4" chuck.

Since I do everything one-handed, I can attest
to the fact that Ron's adapters are snug enough
to not cause a problem when loading bits.
Using the wrench is more difficult than handling the bits.

My only concern with Ron's chucks is the length
when adapters are used, but it generally does
not effect the single 1/8" adapter.

chkorte
04-26-2014, 02:59 PM
chcorte; I don't know anything about the RC. First let's hope that using the CW will help you bring back your dexterities. Changing bits as I understand it is necessary depending on the cut. Perhaps you could stick to patterns with limited or no bit changes.
Woodpecker

My dexterities won't be coming back, I have MS. I try using patterns that only require one bit but there are times it just can't be done. I have been able to adapt my carving procedure when possible. I just finished a cribbage board that required 4 different bits. What I did was upload each part requiring a bit individually. Then I just carved one part one day, another part the next day and so on. A little chancy but it worked. It sounds like the problems people were having using the RC have been addressed so I think I'll give the 30 day free trial a try and see if I like it. When I download the 30 day free trial is that going to overwrite my 1.187 so I won't be able to use it

bergerud
04-26-2014, 03:16 PM
2.0 will not overwrite 1.187. You will have them both. You will only be able to run one at a time.

chkorte
04-26-2014, 03:27 PM
Thanks, I think I'll give the 30 day free trial a try. I'll let you know what I think. I might get the 3D to, there's this eagle I want to try to carve. Does 3D have a 30 day free trial????????????????????????????

bergerud
04-26-2014, 04:50 PM
Yes, it is in a demo mode.

dbfletcher
04-26-2014, 06:54 PM
In demo mode, you cant actually write anything to the card however correct? You can play with designs on screen, but not carve them... that was my understanding.

fwharris
04-26-2014, 07:08 PM
In demo mode, you cant actually write anything to the card however correct? You can play with designs on screen, but not carve them... that was my understanding.


Correct! You can not down load to the card but you can save them.

lynnfrwd
04-27-2014, 01:27 AM
I don't think you can save either.

tierman
04-27-2014, 06:35 AM
Question: If CHKORTE opens a 1.187 file in 2.005 trial mode , will he be able to reopen the same file in 1.187 after it has been opened in 2.005?

bergerud
04-27-2014, 08:46 AM
As long as it is not saved in the higher version it will not be changed and will still open in the earlier version.

bergerud
04-27-2014, 09:15 AM
I don't think you can save either.

I remember thinking that customers of CW users could use the demo to make (and save) their own sign designs as long as there were no advanced features used. I think Floyd is right on this. (Of course, none of us has a demo to try!)

chkorte
05-13-2014, 08:50 PM
Thanks, I think I'll give the 30 day free trial a try. I'll let you know what I think. I might get the 3D to, there's this eagle I want to try to carve. Does 3D have a 30 day free trial????????????????????????????

Well I did it. I jumped in with both feet and bought it all, Designer 2.0, Keyhole function, Pattern modeling suite 3d and Vector drawing suite 2d. I was playing with the 30 day free trial and thinking about the spring sale and told myself just do it. So I did. Now I just have to learn how to use it all.

Dale
05-13-2014, 10:13 PM
Good for you!. There is a lot to learn and hopefully you will enjoy the machine as much as I have.

skeeterman
05-14-2014, 08:03 PM
I am thinking of purchasing , but do not want to dal with learning it or having any crashes at this time, to busy with fathers day carvings so i do not need downtime, if i purchase this now can i just leave it on backburner for a while before i start using it?

fwharris
05-14-2014, 08:17 PM
I am thinking of purchasing , but do not want to dal with learning it or having any crashes at this time, to busy with fathers day carvings so i do not need downtime, if i purchase this now can i just leave it on backburner for a while before i start using it?

Steve,

You do not have to activate it right away. Just make sure you hang of to the email with the software license info...

skeeterman
05-14-2014, 08:24 PM
ok thanks for info
steve

bergerud
05-14-2014, 08:45 PM
You can have both 1.187 and 2.xxx on your computer at the same time. You can only run one at a time, but, you can choose which one. (The only thing is that the file association will be with the last one installed.)

DocWheeler
05-14-2014, 08:50 PM
With both installed, whichever one is opened when an mpc is clicked on the forum, it will go to the one that is opened.
i.e. If 1.187 is opened in the background, the clicked mpc will appear in it if possible.
At least that is the way it appears to work for me.

skeeterman
05-14-2014, 09:00 PM
what do you mean by this, not sure i understand

You can have both 1.187 and 2.xxx on your computer at the same time. You can only run one at a time, but, you can choose which one. (The only thing is that the file association will be with the last one installed.)

bergerud
05-14-2014, 09:10 PM
When you install 2.xxx, it will install in a different sub directory and will not change the 1.187 install. It is like having two different programs installed. You can choose to run either one. The only thing is that if you open files by double clicking on file names, the 2.xxx will open (the new default). If you want to open a file in 1.187, you have to open 1.187 first and then open the file from within 1.187.

skeeterman
05-14-2014, 09:26 PM
sounds like a hassle to me
2.xxx will open (the new default). If you want to open a file in 1.187, you have to open 1.187 first and then open the file from within 1.187.

bergerud
05-14-2014, 09:48 PM
I guess it depends what you normally do. Usually I have three versions going. I almost always have to open the program first. (I cannot wait to let 1.187 go.)

skeeterman
05-14-2014, 10:21 PM
i think im gonna go ahead and get it, just not mess with it till im ready
thanks for info

Smoken D
05-15-2014, 09:04 AM
May have already been answered but was wondering if you program the card to 2, are you able to use it in 1.187? Or do you need to obtain another card and use that one for program 1.187?

bergerud
05-15-2014, 09:14 AM
So far as I know, later firmware has never conflicted with earlier software. No need for separate cards.

Woodpecker
05-16-2014, 05:25 AM
My experience indicates that the newer 2.006 will try to re-format your card. I am not sure why you want to run both programs?
I enjoy everything with just the 2.006 and it just keeps getting better.
Woodpecker

Smoken D
05-16-2014, 08:37 AM
My experience indicates that the newer 2.006 will try to re-format your card. I am not sure why you want to run both programs?
I enjoy everything with just the 2.006 and it just keeps getting better.
Woodpecker

Overcautious, I'm one of those ifsomething can go wrong it will probably find a way into my life. Justa back up. :(

SteveNelson46
05-16-2014, 12:21 PM
May have already been answered but was wondering if you program the card to 2, are you able to use it in 1.187? Or do you need to obtain another card and use that one for program 1.187?

You can update the firmware on the card from either version of Designer so I don't think it's an issue.

rbrown
05-16-2014, 01:17 PM
I read this whole thread and I have a question that no one asked...
On the software ordering page it says:
"All software is non-refundable and non-transferable."
So what happens when I go to sell my CW with the new designer software, will the new owners have to pay $200 for a new license?
Or is the new designer software transferable with the machine like with the old version?

SteveNelson46
05-16-2014, 01:21 PM
I read this whole thread and I have a question that no one asked...
On the software ordering page it says:
"All software is non-refundable and non-transferable."
So what happens when I go to sell my CW with the new designer software, will the new owners have to pay $200 for a new license?
Or is the new designer software transferable with the machine like with the old version?

Neither version transfers ownership with the machine. The new owner will have to purchase new licenses for any and all software.

Smoken D
05-16-2014, 01:55 PM
Might just sell your puter with the CW.:confused:

bergerud
05-16-2014, 03:08 PM
Neither version transfers ownership with the machine. The new owner will have to purchase new licenses for any and all software.

The user will get a free license for 1.187 when he registers the machine.

SteveNelson46
05-16-2014, 05:01 PM
The user will get a free license for 1.187 when he registers the machine.

I guess that makes sense as 2 licenses per machine for 1.187 was free to begin with. However, the new owner must register the machine and just the basic version 1.187 is free. All add-ons and upgrades do not transfer and a new license will have to be purchased by the new owner for anything but the basic 1.187 version.

rbrown
05-16-2014, 05:19 PM
Well that will really suck... I get stuck with the software I can't use, eating the $200 for the software, and then having to drop the price of the CW by $200 so they can buy the software... Wishing I would have went with a pro cnc at this point.

lynnfrwd
05-16-2014, 05:52 PM
If you are getting ready to sell your machine, why are you buying the upgrade?

You also do not lower the machine price, you just do not add the non-transferable software cost.

brdad
05-17-2014, 10:39 AM
You also do not lower the machine price, you just do not add the non-transferable software cost.


It still adds (or subtracts) the same. If the package is worth $2000 to the current user, say $1200 machine and $800 in software, you need to lower that value to $1200 to sell. You're either discounting the software from the package value or just not adding it on to the machine value in the first place.

It's just not one of those items anyone should expect to recoup much of their investment from should they choose to sell it. Kinda like marriage! :D

rbrown
05-17-2014, 04:31 PM
I not selling it yet... But it's like throwing money out the window... The designer license should be tied to the machine... That way you don't lose any money. My point is...what am I going to do with the software without the machine? Obviously if I get rid of the machine... I have no use for the software. Then whoever I sell it to needs to buy the software.

unitedcases
05-17-2014, 04:46 PM
I not selling it yet... But it's like throwing money out the window... The designer license should be tied to the machine... That way you don't lose any money. My point is...what am I going to do with the software without the machine? Obviously if I get rid of the machine... I have no use for the software. Then whoever I sell it to needs to buy the software.

Sounds like the solution to your problem is to keep the machine.

lynnfrwd
05-17-2014, 05:02 PM
There will always be a Designer license tied to the machine. Just not the add ons or upgrades.

rbrown
05-17-2014, 11:00 PM
This is like talking to a wall.

But not the "designer update"... T
hat is what I'm talking about...
Why would I buy it knowing that I will end up eating the cost of it...
And then having to take less money when I go to sell the machine...
You need to rethink your business...
You don't screw your customers...

mathman
05-18-2014, 12:20 AM
How are they screwing their customers when they have "All software is NON-TRANSFERABLE and NON-REFUNDABLE" on the software descriptions, including the Designer upgrade page?

Dale
05-18-2014, 12:28 AM
I agree with Unitedcases, if you do not plan on keeping your machine forever and are worried about loosing money, do not buy any upgrades.