Time to vent!

[LarryLesniak]

I have just about had it with this machine! It's not that it's necessarily a bad machine, it's just that I can't seem to do anything with it without having to go through troubleshooting, maintenance, or repair steps and my machine has seen very little use. Every time I load a board (species and color of wood makes no difference!) I'm faced with errors and it seems that each time I use the machine there's some new issue to address. Basically, I've come to the conclusion that this CarveWright is an interesting tool for those who are fortunate enough to have received a trouble-free unit, or are able to work through the issues each time you turn it on, or have significantly rebuilt the machine. What it has not been for me is a machine I can rely on to complete jobs for me each and every time I turn it on. I can't imagine what my shop would be like if all my machines behaved in this way! There's not another tool in my shop that has given me such headaches and frustration or that is anywhere near as likely to balk at a job as my CarveWright. Frankly, I put the chances of my being able to load a project and have it run successfully to completion at about 10%. I'm not joking and I'm not bashing the machine. It's just that, for me, it doesn't perform reliably. I've maintained it per the instructions and the hints on this forum, I keep it as clean as I possibly can, and I don't ask it to do anything all that complex or heavy. I guess I expected it to be more of a rock-solid shop tool and for me it's been a work in progress, tinkerers tool. I know that many of you have had great success with the machine and have done wonderful work, and I hoped to count myself among your ranks, but it doesn't look like that will be possible, at least not with the unit I have in my shop. So forgive me my ranting but I just don't think I can take the added workload this machine imposes. I think I may just sell it and move up to a ShopBot, a machine that I've used in all its forms (i.e. full size, Buddy, and Desktop) and have found to be a real workhorse. Even more expensive than the CarveWright but each time I boot it up it does exactly what I need it to do with no fuss whatsoever.

I only wish my CarveWright had done the same.

Sorry again for the rant as the members of this forum have been very, very helpful to me but I just had to express my frustration to those who have worked with the same machine.

Larry

[aokweld101]

I can feel the frustration that you might be feeling, when I started with the carvewright I had issues with it, my favorite saying was "WHY IT DO THAT!!" or I would see an error come up and say... "now what"..I have had the machine for one year now and I would not trade it for nothing. I am a happy camper, I can say that I'm obsessed with it, It's more learning the programs. than the machine messing up. it seems as you go along in the process of learning the machine gets easier and you learn what to do.

[lynnfrwd]

Color does make a difference. You never mentioned what type of issues you are having. I understand frustration and releasing it, but specific issues will help.

[Proctorw]

This machine does require some amount of TLC. I felt the same way until I bought a dust collector attachment. That helped quite a bit. Since then, I had 3 problems which LHR helped resolve in a timely manner. I have about 80 hours on the machine and can't find enough shop time lately to put more on it.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Good luck with your ShopBot, it's a good machine. The Hobby CW Machine has not met you needs and it's time to buy a Industrial Machine.

:)

AL

[dehrlich]

I too had a lot of trouble with my machine when I first got it, an old A series. For what I paid for the machine, plus all the parts I had to replace just to get it running right after sitting around for 5 years unused, I could have bought a new machine plus. But now it works great almost all the time and I am glad for all the issues because it forced me to learn the machine and how to fix it. I have had few problems in the last 50 or so hours of running time (knock on cyber wood), biggest one being belts getting torn... but the plus side there is belts can be recycled as sandpaper and works great. Guess it depends on how big your patience tank is and how full. I agree with Al though, perhaps you should move to another machine if CW isn't meeting your needs. I must say though mine runs most of the time when I'm in the shop and works like a charm. Maintenance, maintenance, clean, dust collection. Good luck to you in whatever you choose.

[badbert]

Not meaning to be rude or nosy. But if you could afford and are familiar with ShopBot... Why did you buy the Carvewright? I (like dehrlich) paid too much for a second hand unit. Which turned out to be a third hand remanufactured A-Model. It had never been used. The ribbon cable had jarred loose, shorting power to ground, frying the power supply. By the time I replaced the power supply, and upgraded to the Carvetight, I could have bought a new one. My machine was plagued with problems when I first started as well. Then I figured out the Big-Box store lumber I was trying to use, was not S4S. Learned to cut, joint, and plane EVERY board. I learned to add rails to make boards longer. I learned the "7-inch rule". And most of all I learned to put strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board to improve traction. I learned how to disassemble each drive separately and what to look for. Do you know how many failures are caused by a $1 bearing?! I will read through your history and see if I can come up with suggestions.

Ok, I read through your history.
1. DOA on Arrival, caused by Memory card
2. Oblong holes. Probable cause, slipping X-Drive or calibration needed.
3. Clear board sensor. You have had board sensor problems for a while.

Have you ever replaced it? I cut mine apart, and cleaned it, along time ago. I resealed it with Clear RTV Silicone. I do receive the error still, even though I have adequate dust collection, I just crank the head all the way up and use my compressor to blow out the machine. Making sure I blow the board sensor. Then I wipe it with a used dryer sheet. Its usually good for a while. So if this is the error your rant is about, lets fix it. It doesn't take a nasa engineer to repair these things, just to design one!

Most of your frustrating posts were about design issues, and all I can say is, "We're here for you!' Reading through your posts, I see you have received help from four Carvewright Legends. AskBud (RIP), BJB, EdLamb, KenM810.

[LarryLesniak]

Not meaning to be rude or nosy. But if you could afford and are familiar with ShopBot... Why did you buy the Carvewright?.

This is an excellent question and not nosy or rude at all. I bought the CarveWright several years ago and have made good use of it even if it's been quite a temperamental machine. I don't own a ShopBot, I have access to them (full size PRT and Buddy) via TechShop, a shared makerspace in Pittsburgh of which I am a member. After taking CNC basics, CAD/CAM, and machine specific "Safety and Basic Use" classes I'm now cleared to reserve and use the machine and I've found it to be fast, powerful, and very reliable. I couldn't afford to bring anything bigger than a ShopBot desktop into my shop here at home but access to the full-size and half-size machines via TechShop has been a real benefit to me. The CarveWright still fills a role for me, especially when I'm not able to make the 1 hr trip to TechShop, and I just wish it was more dependable.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I hated the #2 Lead Pencil in Grade School.... Just when you wanted to write something the point was dull... I sure was glad when the #2 Mechanical Pencil came out... It was just too much trouble with a unreliable #2 Wood Pencil.... Every time you wanted to use it.. You had to walk up to the sharpener and tune it up with a few cranks... Such a unreliable pencil... Too much trouble for me...

As for the Mechanical Pencil.... I only wish my #2 Wood Pencil was as reliable as just a 1/8th of a turn of the New and More Expensive Mechanical Pencil and new lead appears... Now that is reliabliity... What were the makers of the Wood Pencil thinking.... It's all their fault...

And don't get me started one the old ink pens that you needed to fill with ink to use... So unreliable....

I now have access to a Mechanical Typewritter....

It's good to vent....

:)

[ktjwilliams]

I feel UR pain .... The machine I luv to hate !!!! Like U said if my other tools and machines worked like my carvewright, I would never get anything done..... My machine has been sitting idle for 2 weeks now waiting for parts ... I " HAD " a project to get done that was on a time schedule.... So basically the machine is only reliable when it comes to problems ,,,, LOL ...



I have just about had it with this machine! It's not that it's necessarily a bad machine, it's just that I can't seem to do anything with it without having to go through troubleshooting, maintenance, or repair steps and my machine has seen very little use. Every time I load a board (species and color of wood makes no difference!) I'm faced with errors and it seems that each time I use the machine there's some new issue to address. Basically, I've come to the conclusion that this CarveWright is an interesting tool for those who are fortunate enough to have received a trouble-free unit, or are able to work through the issues each time you turn it on, or have significantly rebuilt the machine. What it has not been for me is a machine I can rely on to complete jobs for me each and every time I turn it on. I can't imagine what my shop would be like if all my machines behaved in this way! There's not another tool in my shop that has given me such headaches and frustration or that is anywhere near as likely to balk at a job as my CarveWright. Frankly, I put the chances of my being able to load a project and have it run successfully to completion at about 10%. I'm not joking and I'm not bashing the machine. It's just that, for me, it doesn't perform reliably. I've maintained it per the instructions and the hints on this forum, I keep it as clean as I possibly can, and I don't ask it to do anything all that complex or heavy. I guess I expected it to be more of a rock-solid shop tool and for me it's been a work in progress, tinkerers tool. I know that many of you have had great success with the machine and have done wonderful work, and I hoped to count myself among your ranks, but it doesn't look like that will be possible, at least not with the unit I have in my shop. So forgive me my ranting but I just don't think I can take the added workload this machine imposes. I think I may just sell it and move up to a ShopBot, a machine that I've used in all its forms (i.e. full size, Buddy, and Desktop) and have found to be a real workhorse. Even more expensive than the CarveWright but each time I boot it up it does exactly what I need it to do with no fuss whatsoever.

I only wish my CarveWright had done the same.

Sorry again for the rant as the members of this forum have been very, very helpful to me but I just had to express my frustration to those who have worked with the same machine.

Larry

[lynnfrwd]

Not to belabor the issue, but what issues were you having?

I tried to be proactive and look at your accounts, but found nothing to indicate an unreliable machine; not even purchases of maintenance parts.

I see you upgraded from QC to CT. That will be a good selling point.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Post removed by me... Was a little grumpy... LOL.....

Everyone is entitled to an opinion....

AL

[fwharris]

Al,

Here is another example. Carver had NO CUT MOTOR running, gave instructions on what to check and was burnt component on X card. Informed what CW techs would ask him to do when he called in, return cut motor and X card. After he gets parts back and installed into machine I get another call that now the D*** machine is giving me a Y belt slippage error. What the H*** now? Instructed that he probably did not get the screw on the Y belt adjustment plate tightened back up when he put machine back together. Ten minutes later get a call back and all is working again.

Another call this afternoon, NOW THE THING THAT THE TRUCK PUSHES OUT DOES NOT POP OUT!! i CAN NOT EVEN PUSH IT OVER BY HAND TO GET IT TO WORK! Oh you mean the bit plate? You probably did not get the wires pushed down into the pocket at the cut motor and the wires are not tucked back into the corner so that the Z will not hit them. Five minutes later called back and gee it is working.. ;)

[unitedcases]

Well I will ask, how much? $$$

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sorry... A little Grumpy when you kick the dog....

Great Question... How much will He sell the machine for.... how much does He value it?

Time will tell...

I spent at least a year reading the Shop Bot Forum including all the Troubleshooting. I learned much... Before seeing the TV Ad for the CW from Sears....

AL

[badbert]

Something that always cracks me up, is the saying... If every machine in my shop was as unreliable as the Carvewright... If every machine in your shop, had someone operating it 24/7, there would be some maintenance and repair issues as well! LOL My A-Model has around 1000hrs on it. I bet my 1991 Delta Contractors Tablesaw doesn't have that many hours on it! I have done a lot of projects that required the Carvewright to run for 12 hours or more. I have done a few that required it to run as long as 27 hours!

[TurtleCove]

I disagree, Bert. Seems most of us had issues with our CW's, right from the git-go. And, very few of us are running them 24/7...or even close to that.
This is an ugly thread. It's a very troublesome machine. Frot with issues. I like mine. Why? Cuz it's fun, when it works. But, there's no other machine in my shop, that's even close to as finicky as the CW. A poor chuck, zero dust collection, and a design that moves the board in and out....are the biggest culprits in my estimation.

[lawrence]

I think the best word I can use to describe the machine is this- "inconsistent results for different users" (ok, that is 5 words)

When it runs well (like my machine has) it can do some outstandingly incredible things... for outstandingly long periods of time

When it doesn't run well it can be frustrating and lack of experience with successful carves can really hinder troubleshooting.

My first 250 hours or so went almost error free. After and since that, I get errors at the beginning of many carves (especially
complicated ones with sleds or double sided or multiple bit changes)

Due to experience and knowledge gleaned from this site, I understand how to interpret and circumvent those errors
(move bit depth, masking tape on dark wood, blow off sensor, etc) I've never (knock on wood) had to give up on a carve because
I couldn't get my machine to do it- this says a lot about it. I have, however, cursed at my carvewright MUCH more than I have
any other machine in the shop - this says a lot about it too. (some of you have posted the names you gave your machines. Mine has
a name that can't be repeated on a family forum... and I have ALWAYS gotten mine to work... eventually :) )

I wouldn't call it an unreliable machine- I'd call it a temperamental machine with very specific needs that must be met. With tenacity,
experience, and a big helping of patience I think almost every machine and user can be "trained" to accomplish successful carves.

The question each of us has to ask is whether this benefit (amazing carving) is worth the cost (risk associated with *maybe* getting a
machine that forces you to troubleshoot early on before you've built up the experience to deal with the issues)

I've decided that mine is worth this cost to me, but I also understand the frustration by those that headed into this purchase without
understanding all of the nuances. Marketing like this certainly don't help... "just point, click, and carve" - there's a little more to it than that
and while it's very true that there aren't any other CNCs that are easier, that doesn't mean that this one is that simplistic either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LI-0ZcMIrKw

Great machine- I love mine- but I also understand others' frustrations and do sympathize (and feel fortunate that mine has worked well for me)

Besides which- this forum is a great place to vent away-- I'd hope that LHR would encourage the venting to happen here rather than on the other
woodworking forums.

Lawrence

[badbert]

That ad says HARBOR FREIGHT!! These were sold at Harbor freight? When?

[CNC Carver]

Bert good catch on the Harbor Freight. I never saw them at any one I visited.

[lawrence]

I'm not sure- though I know it's been a while-

I got mine from another retailer listed on that page- AAFES (the base exchange). The CW no longer appears to be sold through them either.

V/r
Lawrence

[Geomoo1]

Bert good catch on the Harbor Freight. I never saw them at any one I visited.
They were offered on line. Not in the stores. Plus they were offered at quite a discounted (Harbor Freight) price. I know this because I tried to order one about three or four years ago but they kept being back-ordered so I canceled the order after a long, long wait. I found it while just browsing through their web site. It wasn't prominently displayed.

[LarryLesniak]

Well, this has become a most interesting thread! The forum members have been amazingly helpful to me and I deeply appreciate the community that exists around this machine. And I know that LHR stands behind it and will provide any needed parts and support. But I'm a little surprised at the response by some members to my expression of frustration with my particular machine. My machine has seen VERY light use on simple carvings and vector cuts. I clean it religiously, maintain it carefully, follow all of the hints and tips I've been able to gather from this forum and other online resources, and am familiar enough with all sorts of mechanical and electronic devices to feel comfortable working on the machine. I'm not "kicking the dog" here, I'm expressing my sentiment that the specific machine I have requires some form of attention on nearly every job to run reliably. Other posters in this thread expressed similar thoughts and have apparently been through a similar situations with their machines so I'm not the only one who struggles with it. I think the description posted by a fellow forum member really fits my situation... "temperamental" and "inconsistent results for different users" really describes my interaction with the machine very well. I can understand how some users feel much differently about their machine(s) and I'll keep on working with mine in hopes that it can be brought up to a better level of "temperamental" so that I can use it when needed without running into so many issues that I feel the need to vent again (which I will NOT do, believe me, once was enough!). I'm not "kicking the dog" here, just voicing a frustration that apparently has been felt by other users of the machine and forum. And I will continue to use the ShopBot when possible which is not so much a slight on the CarveWright or LHR but a recognition of a different set of capabilities.

And that's all from me for now. Thanks again for all the offers of help and suggestions I've received, all of which are greatly appreciated!

Larry

[dehrlich]

Thought I would throw in another $0.02, which due to inflation is now worth about $0.0000002... Anyway, it's all in how you look at it I guess. One can cuss because the machine breaks down, or look at it as an opportunity to figure out what is wrong and fix it. Many times I try to build a strange idea I have had just to see if I can engineer a way to make it work. Only thing that sucks is when you have projects waiting on the machine but as Al said, have common parts on hand if it's a big deal. I'm hoping Santa will bring me a new machine for Christmas so I can have a back-up plan. I have found now that I actually look for ways to use carved pieces in my projects. Guess i'm hooked!

[Proctorw]

My brother asked about buying this machine. He is not very good at troubleshooting, and not good at taking things apart. I told him to wait 6 months and see if he is still interested. I love the machine, but it does require some TLC. I do understand the comment that if the rest of the tools in my shop required the same amount of maintenance .... If I get busy enough making products, I would definitely purchase a second machine since down time with this machine is not predictable. But again, for the $$$ it would take for a second machine, it wouldn't be too hard to justify if I really get busy. I did look at the Rockler Machine and for the money you would spend on it, you could almost buy 2 of the CW machines. Plus you wouldn't have access to this forum for troubleshooting and ideas.

[DickB]

Larry, are you using a dust collector?

[ladjr]

Al

You said have back up parts on hand, which I believe is a must. But how about the rebates for parts from LHR it says 90 days or you can't return.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Yes, that is an issue.... I agree... I have lost the rebates on many of my parts by choice.

AL

[aokweld101]

my second machine is back in the box in the closet as a back-up for the reason you just mention I don't like being down without a machine I thought at the time buying all the motors and spare parts was just as expensive as the machine so if one goes down I'll use one till get parts for the other and I have some minor spare parts at hand also I think I have my bases covered.

[lawrence]

Back up parts is another thing that makes this machine different from any other in my shop... I keep spare dust collector bags and spare sander pads on hand, but for the most part I don't keep back up parts for breakdowns for any of my other machines... nor do I feel the need to.

I'm not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing- just that this is one more thing that isn't readily apparent for many folks when they buy the machine. CNCs are simply different beasts than many tools...

Lawrence

[lynnfrwd]

Al

You said have back up parts on hand, which I believe is a must. But how about the rebates for parts from LHR it says 90 days or you can't return.

You can still get a rebate after 90 days, it just can't be applied back to your credit card. It has to be store credit.

[ronboley]

Reading these threads, I’ve come to realize my Carvewrightexperience is similar to many others. Ibought the machine several years ago (a later B machine), tinkered with it alittle to only carve two example little carves that came with the machine andone number/letter custom “sign”, then let it sit for several years untilfinally had the time to do a real project. When the “serious” carving began,the problems began as well. My machinehas 110 hours on it at this point, almost all of it the scanning and carving ofmy table project (posted in the design section). I added my own dust collectionsystem and keep the flex shaft lubes and the case blown out.
The carving has been allraster-carving in rift sawn hard oak and several hours per carve so I assumenot the easiest of carving tasks. Duringthis time I’ve suffered the stuck roller, stuck roller sensor, cut motor wiresin the way of the y truck so the bit sensor would not work, rolled undersandpaper rollers, ripped sandpaper rollers, dirty board sensor, faulty y truckbearings, broken screw holding on one y truck bearing, cover sensor stuck (theone that controls the cut motor-hey there are two of them), flex shaft melt down/replacement, worn QC and bitadaptors with the BB wear causing the whole thing to wobble, and then samething with new QC…then finally convert to Carve Tight and all new bits. Now I back to carving my dozen chairs projectand moving forward with my fingers crossed.
Now the venting. Allof the problems I’ve experienced are “typical” problems on the Forum, in therepair sheets and in the Tips and Tricks. Almost all of my information and fixes havebeen a result of advice gained thru the forum…and the LRH repair sheets. If LRH wishes to improve the reliability of theunit I would suggest that a printed manual (not the Brochure sized pamphlet thatnow comes with the machine) be produced to include the trouble shooting andrepair information available on the Forum, in the Tips and Tricks and in thecurrent various repair sheets. If thisinformation were in an organized manual, at least the repair frustration wouldbe a lot less. Second, why in the worlddoes the base unit not include a dust collection system? Seems several forum members have solved thisproblem to one degree or another on their own. The dust collection problem seems to be the cause of many “errors”.
I did in my own frustration look for an alternative to theCarvewright. What I’ve found are some lighter-dutyhobby machines that wouldn’t do the carving I need and larger more expensive commercialmachines set up mostly for sign and cabinet work. The other hobby machines seem to be prettylimited both in capacity and in software. The larger commercial machines seem to be very (at least two to fivetimes the CW)expensive, would need a lot of time and effort to learn thevarious software and hardware requirements to function and are geared towardssign making, cabinet door making or production of repetitive routed parts. Soback to the Carvewright.
So as I said I’m back to carving the dozen chairs to go withmy table project and facing about another 100 hours of carving and expecting Iwon’t get thru it unscathed. My finalpoint is I don’t believe the CW should come without a comprehensive (I printedout the designer manual, the LRH repair sheets, Tips and Tricks and some of theForum information into two phone book sized binders…Los Angeles sized)manualwith troubleshooting, repair and parts information AND a base unit with adecent dust collection system.
If one explores the CNC world of routers, milling machines,plasma cutters and lathes, it appears that $2500.00 (cost of CW) buys half of asmall machine with little software….most costing $5,000 to $15,000 and up. So in that light CW is relativelyinexpensive. Compared to other hobbies,the $2500 may get you a table saw, a wood lathe, a gem faceting machine, adecent plasma cutter OR a small hobby mill/lath set…none of which are CNC.
The CW is a hobby machine that can be pushed to do more…witha price to pay in time, money and repairs. I my case the CW is for now what makes my (carving hobby projects onsteroids) projects possible.

[ladjr]

You can still get a rebate after 90 days, it just can't be applied back to your credit card. It has to be store credit.

Thanks Connie, that is good information.

[badbert]

I disagree, Bert. Seems most of us had issues with our CW's, right from the git-go. And, very few of us are running them 24/7...or even close to that.
This is an ugly thread. It's a very troublesome machine. Frot with issues. I like mine. Why? Cuz it's fun, when it works. But, there's no other machine in my shop, that's even close to as finicky as the CW. A poor chuck, zero dust collection, and a design that moves the board in and out....are the biggest culprits in my estimation.
I am not saying that there weren't problems with mine in the get go. What I am saying is this, I use my tablesaw for maybe twenty minutes (run time) If I have alot of lumber to process. But if I had a board long enough, that it took twelve hours to rip, I would expect some sort of failure long before my tablesaw got through that board. Of course this is impossible. But I set my carvewright to cut for twelve continuous hours, without evening thinking twice. And most of the time, it comes through unscathed.

So comparing the carvewright to any other tool in your shop, is not a real comparison.

[aokweld101]

I have said all along, If I knew there was this much learning at the beginning I don't know if I would of bought it, but I'm now obsessed or possessed with it I'm like Johnny 5.. I need more input...lol :p