What now????

[Geomoo1]

It seems that no sooner do I get one thing fixed something else "pops" up (pun intended). In the middle of a carve (about 30 min. in) the machine stopped and before I could get to it to turn it off there was a loud POP! and then the GFCI and breaker triggered. I took the top off for a visual and saw no obvious problems such as scorched boards or wires. I thought maybe the carve motor jammed, but the shaft and motor turn OK. My next step was to open up the bottom to check the power board. Bingo! Fried resistor on the power board. What really rips my shorts is this is a replacement power board for the bad one that caused my original (from day one) problem. This board has less than 20 hours on it. I'm thinking that LHR needs to tighten up their QC on the Chinese junk being peddled to them. On the phone again tomorrow...

[henry1]

man that is frustrating , hope it turn out good for you

[Geomoo1]

OOPS! I made a mistake. After investigation on the CarveWright website, it's not the "main" power board (the part that was replaced) but the "X Termination Electronics Board" with the fried resistor. Oh well. The fact remains that this was one of the parts I sent in for testing along with the defective power board about two months ago. Go figure.

[lawrence]

Man, that stinks- I hope it gets resolved quickly.

Is there any kind of parts warranty on new boards etc? Also, are the boards new from factory or refurbs (I don't know if this is possible) like the motors?

Please let us know how things get handled, and again, I hope it is as quick and painless as possible.

Lawrence

[SteveNelson46]

I had similar problems with my first machine. After many parts replacements and taking it back to Sears a couple of times they gave me a new machine. I still had problems but, not quite as many. After working through the bugs, the machine finally stabilized out and I haven't had any problems in the last 500 or 600 hours of carving. With about 1300 hours of carving time on the machine I'm still using the original flex shaft and cut motor (with regular brush changes of course). And the point? Just hang in there, work through the problems and in the long run you will have enough fun to make up for all of the frustrations.

[Digitalwoodshop]

George,

Tell us about your Dust collection system... This could have been caused by a Dust Collection System letting the Static Electricity build up on the machine frame looking for a path to ground. Since the Cut Motor and X Termination Board have a White Wire of Neutral Wire, it is the closest thing to a Ground and the static will jump to that ground.... Causing a major failure...

So... 1 Do you have a Dust collection system?

2. What kind?

3. How is it Grounded?

4. What are you using to collect the dust? Shop Vac or Dust collector?

5. How are you Grounding your machine and dust collection?

AL

[Geomoo1]

Thanks for the support guys. The machine should still be under warranty. It was just purchased in March this year. I just need to call tomorrow and get a replacement.
Just wondering... should I look for some other problem that may have caused the board to fry other than just a defective board? And If so what should I look for?
Just for kicks here is a pic of the fried board...

63771

[Geomoo1]

Thanks for the input, Al. I won't rule out the possibility of static electricity. I am going to use a larger wire and make sure they are contacting bare metal on each end. Having been a telephone central office installer I am well aware of how much damage static electricity can do and how little it takes to do a ton of damage to a circuit card. For those using a DC, and not grounding it, you are playing with fire. It might work great for a while but all it takes is one little spike and you are toast.

Answers to questions in red below...


George,

Tell us about your Dust collection system... This could have been caused by a Dust Collection System letting the Static Electricity build up on the machine frame looking for a path to ground. Since the Cut Motor and X Termination Board have a White Wire of Neutral Wire, it is the closest thing to a Ground and the static will jump to that ground.... Causing a major failure...

So... 1 Do you have a Dust collection system? Yes

2. What kind? Ring Neck Blues

3. How is it Grounded? Stranded copper wire under screw head on Blues DC to a bolt on my Delta 4" DC system.

4. What are you using to collect the dust? Shop Vac or Dust collector? See above

5. How are you Grounding your machine and dust collection? Three prong plug to grounded GFCI outlet for machine and DC.

AL

[bergerud]

Is that a crack I see in the big orange capacitor or just a hair?

[Geomoo1]

Is that a crack I see in the big orange capacitor or just a hair?

Not a crack. It's just a mark caused by the POP.

[fwharris]

George,

As a check you might verify that you have continuity between the between the bolt on your dust collector to the ground plug on the power cord.

[t147]

With you George. Too many problems with the new machines. Hope you can move on to the "downhill slide".

[Geomoo1]

George,

As a check you might verify that you have continuity between the between the bolt on your dust collector to the ground plug on the power cord.

Thanks for the suggestion. I checked for continuity and there was none. Apparently the Delta DC doesn't have a chassis ground. Since the plug on the CW machine is only two prong that allowed me to use a two to three prong converter at the outlet and I ran a wire from the ground of the converter plug to a bolt on the DC. Now I have continuity from the RingNeckBlues DC insert to the wall outlet ground.

[fwharris]

Thanks for the suggestion. I checked for continuity and there was none. Apparently the Delta DC doesn't have a chassis ground. Since the plug on the CW machine is only two prong that allowed me to use a two to three prong converter at the outlet and I ran a wire from the ground of the converter plug to a bolt on the DC. Now I have continuity from the RingNeckBlues DC insert to the wall outlet ground.

Well done! That could very well be the problem then..

[Geomoo1]

Thanks again, Floyd. That just might have done it. I hope. Now all I need is a new X Term Board.

[lynnfrwd]

We need to test your cut motor too.

[bergerud]

Thanks again, Floyd. That just might have done it. I hope. Now all I need is a new X Term Board.

I do not believe static electricity could be the cause of the kind of high current that fried the X termination board. I would think that either your cut motor was drawing too much current (hence LHR should test it) or the X termination board was previously damaged. Do you open the cover to stop the machine or do you use the stop button?

[lynnfrwd]

The reason I am asking is because a bad x-term board can fry you cut motor.

[Geomoo1]

I do not believe static electricity could be the cause of the kind of high current that fried the X termination board. I would think that either your cut motor was drawing too much current (hence LHR should test it) or the X termination board was previously damaged. Do you open the cover to stop the machine or do you use the stop button?

If in the middle of a carve I open the cover. I don't recall ever using the stop button except when the machine says to.

[bergerud]

I never use the cover to stop the machine from carving. I seem to be one of only a few who think this is electrically damaging to the machine. The right cover switch which interrupts the motor current does not have a surge protection circuit. A large voltage spike results from breaking the motor current. I believe that opening the cover while the motor is under load can take out components on the x termination board. Anyway, that is why I asked.

[Geomoo1]

We need to test your cut motor too.

Do you mean I need to send it in for testing or do the user test? I can't, of course, do the user test until the X Term board is replaced. I called LHR this morning and e-mailed the picture of the fried board. I am waiting for Chris to call back as to whether this is covered by warranty (It SHOULD be) and also tell me if other tests are needed. After replacing the board I am wondering if it will be OK to turn the machine on prior to having the cut motor tested by LHR. MAN! This is frustrating...

[Geomoo1]

I never use the cover to stop the machine from carving. I seem to be one of only a few who think this is electrically damaging to the machine. The right cover switch which interrupts the motor current does not have a surge protection circuit. A large voltage spike results from breaking the motor current. I believe that opening the cover while the motor is under load can take out components on the x termination board. Anyway, that is why I asked.

Just to be on the safe side I will start using the STOP button from now on. That is, if I ever get the machine back on line.

[dbfletcher]

Just to be on the safe side I will start using the STOP button from now on. That is, if I ever get the machine back on line.

The only downside to using the stop button, and I'm betting we have all done it at least once, is that it is possible to sometimes "double press" the stop button which then cancels the job. It try to just hit it real fast now to avoid that.

[SteveEJ]

Yup.. Been there, done that Doug! Single very fast tap is all that is needed.

[fwharris]

The only downside to using the stop button, and I'm betting we have all done it at least once, is that it is possible to sometimes "double press" the stop button which then cancels the job. It try to just hit it real fast now to avoid that.

Put me on that list also! Got the technique down now though :D !

I have to agree with Dan on the surge being placed on the X board when raising the cover to pause your carvings. I have even seen arcing coming out of the switch and one of the local users had the plug from the cover wires to the X board that was blackened with some of the plastic melted away.

[Geomoo1]

OK. Finally got the call back from LHR and I am sending the cut motor in for testing tomorrow. That means at least two weeks down time. It's a good thing I had finished with customer orders before this happened.

[Geomoo1]

I received my replacement X-term board and rebuilt cut motor today. Not a bad turn around... one week. Now for the fun part. The cut motor went back in without a hitch but when I mounted the x-term board and started plugging in the cables the trouble started. Incoming and Outgoing AC power connectors plugged in fine but, the AC motor control connector and x-drive DC motor pack connector are both too big for the terminals on the x-term board. What gives here????? Is there two different x-term boards? Wrong terminals on the board???? All the numbers look right on the board when compared to the picture on the order page of web site and the notes I made when sending the equipment in. I just don't understand why this crap keeps happening. It seems I thought I bought apples and was sent a box of lemons instead. This is the last straw... Can ANYONE tell me what the heck is going on here????????
The old (fried board), if I remember correctly, only had terminals sticking up with no side or top walls and the new board is a socket with side walls. Or, maybe not. I don't know anything for sure any more.
New board Fried board
64040 64041

[fwharris]

Is it the picture or just me, but I do not see a red wire in the picture with the new board?

[badbert]

The old (fried board), if I remember correctly, only had terminals sticking up with no side or top walls and the new board is a socket with side walls. Or, maybe not. I don't know anything for sure any more.
New board Fried board
64040 64041

You just answered your own question!! LOL The connectors still have the female connectors (from the fried board) attached! I can see it plain as day in your pictures.

[SteveEJ]

Yup.. Looks like the plastic or nylon female part is from the old board is still connected to the male plugs. Look closely at the end of the cables and see if you can slide it off of the male plug itself. When you get it off it might take some cleaning before you plug the male into the new board.

Let us know how it works out.

[Geomoo1]

Is it the picture or just me, but I do not see a red wire in the picture with the new board?
The red wire is on the bottom right under the other wires in the pic.

[Geomoo1]

WELL, DUH!!! How dumb can I be?
Thank you badbert and Steve. Looks like I had my head up my rear end on this one. The old terminal housings were indeed still on the ends of the plugs. I guess the heat from the fried resistor sort of fused them together and they came off the board when I unplugged them. In any event, I pried the old housings off and the cables plugged right in.
You guys are the best and I apologize to LHR and all of you on the forum for my little temper tantrum. Thanks again for all the help and thanks to LHR for the quick turn-around on the re-build of the cut motor.

[fwharris]

WELL, DUH!!! How dumb can I be?
Thank you badbert and Steve. Looks like I had my head up my rear end on this one. The old terminal housings were indeed still on the ends of the plugs. I guess the heat from the fried resistor sort of fused them together and they came off the board when I unplugged them. In any event, I pried the old housings off and the cables plugged right in.
You guys are the best and I apologize to LHR and all of you on the forum for my little temper tantrum. Thanks again for all the help and thanks to LHR for the quick turn-around on the re-build of the cut motor.

Good eyes guys! I knew something was not looking right with the connectors!!!

[lawrence]

WELL, DUH!!! How dumb can I be?
Thank you badbert and Steve. Looks like I had my head up my rear end on this one. The old terminal housings were indeed still on the ends of the plugs. I guess the heat from the fried resistor sort of fused them together and they came off the board when I unplugged them. In any event, I pried the old housings off and the cables plugged right in.
You guys are the best and I apologize to LHR and all of you on the forum for my little temper tantrum. Thanks again for all the help and thanks to LHR for the quick turn-around on the re-build of the cut motor.

That's how I felt when I thought the "what's new" button was gone and it had just moved 2 inches to the left :)
It happens to us all man, I'm just glad that things are working out and hopefully you'll be up and running again soon.

Lawrence

[SteveEJ]

Glad it worked out! I learned it the hard way once and never forgot. Now we share the same lesson! Good thing learning. Better thing sharing what you have learned!

[badbert]

Glad it was so simple!

[Digitalwoodshop]

I saw that too in the pictures.... The danger in pulling the pin guide off the board is the possibility to install it wrong, as in 180 degrees out... In your case, the correct guide is installed on the new board...

Good Job !!!!

AL