Help! Check tracking roller

[peep]

My C machine has 19:36 hrs on it.

I get Check tracking roller
What I have done so far:
1) Cleaned the board sensor measures good with white paper, and passes the wide test (can't run length test as error occurs)
2) Cleaned rubber bearing protectors on front and back compression rollers. Test passes showing they compress/decompress when pushed up by hand. Compression rollers move freely and are clean.
3) Cleaned all posts and threads. Cranks up and down freely.
4) Measured head pressure. its 84-88. 84 on first click and 88 after 4 clicks.
5) Board tracking sensor rolls freely and has rubber o-ring still on it.
6) Check weight of board, its Cabbage Bark 50" x 11" x 3/4. Janka of 2805 and specific gravity of 0.90. It weights 15lbs. Changed to another smaller pine board but get the same error. Boards were planned and edged by me first. And again during testing of the machine.
7) Put the sliding plate against the board, and then the distance of 3 playing card away. Same error.
8) neither of the rubber belts are damaged or show roll-up. They do move when pressure and force are applied my my hand.


Did one other thing, but not sure if its a correct symptom or not.
- put in the lighter pine board, 10" x 20" x 3/5 and then ran the test. Instantly get "check tracking roller" after it measures the board wideness. So I backed off the crank (lowering the head pressure) a 1/16th or a turn and hit enter. It try's to measure the board again but this time.....the board starts moving a half an inch, then again and again, like its pulsing. Not sure if this is from low head pressure or if the motor can now just barely move the wood. It is moving the wood, but in noisy pulses.

Anyone have any ideas before I have to open it up?

[bergerud]

I would first check that the brass roller is up proud of the belt plane and pressing firmly against the board.

Edit: do you see nice tracking roller marks on the edge of the board?

[peep]

I put a level across and a light on it. It looks like it moves, when the level moves.

[bergerud]

Next try a sensor check. See if the numbers change as you roll the brass roller with your finger. (It has been rare that the sensor is bad but it is a quick check.)

[peep]

Did the sensor checks
-Lid switch pass
-board senor =0 cranked up, =20 cranked down
-y and z values move when moving bit head by hand
-x position 149.784, Brd tracking = 17.807 but moves when turning the brass roller by hand and by sliding a board over it.

[SteveNelson46]

A 50" board usually requires support at each end. The board will lose contact with the tracking roller when it is fully extended during measurement.

[peep]

I have two extra rollers placed 18" from each side. But this problem is happening on a 20" pine board also.

[SteveNelson46]

Try some masking tape on the edge where the tracking roller touches the board. Also, be sure the extra rollers are EXACTLY the same height as the sandpaper/rubber belts

[peep]

yes did that. Masking tape on all edges, top and bottom. Fails with shorter pine board that does not reach the rollers.

[SteveNelson46]

You may need to replace the board tracking sensor. Give LHR a call.

[bergerud]

The board tracking error, is I believe, a large disagreement between the x encoder data and the tracking roller data. Backlash in x drive system could cause this as well as the x drive back and forth stuttering. You might take a look at the x gear system.

[peep]

But the Board tracking sensor test shows the value moves when turning the brass roller by hand and by sliding a board over it. Could it still be the board tracking sensor?

[peep]

Ran Test X with bit removed and z truck in the middle up to its highest level.
first try I had a=113.79 m=174.14
second try a=113.21 m=168.34

But I also noticed the belts were not always turning smoothly. They appeared to slip (not in unison front and back) but the slip was only for a 1/4 of a second.
So I ran the test a few more times and when ever I placed my hand on the moving belt (front or back going forward or reverse) I could stop the belt with very little force.

Is this normal? Can someone see if they can run test x and easily stop the belt with their hand, please.

[bergerud]

There is no way you should be able to stop the x belts by hand. I think you have found your problem. Now you have to take off the gear cover and check the gears.

[Digitalwoodshop]

This could be a case where the Rubber Belts were installed and now the brass roller is rubbing against the bulged belt when a board is installed. Like a Radial Tire bulging, the brass roller may need to be removed and the mounting holes made oval to let the brass roller be more centered between the belts.

AL

[bergerud]

I think it is worse than that Al, he can stop the x drive during the x drive test. Something major is slipping. Maybe the x motor is loose??

[peep]

OK, took apart the bottom and gear side. Looked good. Can not find any visible fault. Slowly took off the gears and was shocked!
About as shocked as bergerud would be when he finds out he has just been conscripted to the Canadian Army lol
The inner most gear that is linked to the two metal gears was stripped. Big time! I'm confused, but not to worry, I have a multiple of spare parts for my A machine.

Unfortinetly they have changed the gears since the A machine. So I painstakingly dis-assembled the gears (with no cotter pin remover) and reassembled them on the new gear housing.
Ran the board measure once, but got an end of board error. Ran it again same error. Put in the small pine board and it went an inch then stopped "Check Tracking Roller"!!!!!!
I tried to move the rubber belts, but they are still unmovable. Damn. Well not touching it till I do further investigation. Have to go see the Mennonites today about some Mahogany wood.

Could something be causing the gear to strip?
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/Peep_2008/IMG_0183_zpsdf4d43d3.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/Peep_2008/media/IMG_0183_zpsdf4d43d3.jpg.html)
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn111/Peep_2008/IMG_0184_zps0e1047e8.jpg (http://s302.photobucket.com/user/Peep_2008/media/IMG_0184_zps0e1047e8.jpg.html)

[bergerud]

Do you remember anything that would explain why the gear got striped. I hope you did not strip the new gear you put in. How easy do the rollers roll? Before I got dust collection, I had the bearings in the rollers themselves get stiff with dust.

[fwharris]

Things that can strip the inner gear:

To high head pressure, board jammed, to heavy load (board weight).....

[liquidguitars]

I tried to move the rubber belts, but they are still unmovable.

make sure the gears don't have the old plastic chips in them, also you have some tension adjustment by sliding the Rubber Belts tight to the center gears before you tighten.

[peep]

Holly non-denominational, gender neutral, no bias, bad word Batman!

Eug; have I had to do allot. Well I decided to go through all the alignments to see what was out of whack. All went good, but the head pressure. It was really odd.
I reported weeks ago that I had a head pressure of 90. Everyone seemed to think it was still ok. Well I was playing with the crank going up and down and noticed every now and then my head pressure would go to 135lb! Maybe every 4 to 5th crank down. Now that's odd, and could explain my problems, but how to fix it. Well back in the trouble section and a ride to town to buy white lithium grease in a spray straw set me to the task. When I took off the crank handle I noticed their is no washer before the spring. Ah-ha!

Then I got to thinking it really had no purpose other than maybe stopping the spring from scratching the crank or stopping the grease from leaking. I greased as the book said, but it just kept doing the same thing. on the 4th time I took off the handle and resprayed, it finally came down to 80 to 88lbs.

Now it measures the board and everything is fine.

I put in a board, it measures and when it starts to carve, its quiet. I look inside and its going back and forth sliding the motionless bit across the board. And no errors. Now what!

[peep]

Op, after moving everything around a few to many times, I noticed my DC insert was up a bit to much. Realigned and it seems to be working fine now.

Question do I need the missing washer between the crank handle and the spring?

[fwharris]

The washers on the crank handle shaft are usually there to add torque to increase the head pressure. I would recommend that prior to each carve you do a head pressure check to be on the safe side.

On the quite carve, did you plug the two cut motor wire back in when you re installed the top cover? Or was it because the cover was resting on top of the DC-INSERT? Also when you installed the DC-INSERT did you make sure the fold over lip on the intake end of the insert was hooked over the frame above the compression roller?

[peep]

Well finished a 17 hour carve on Cabbage Bark wood and it went off without a problem.
fwharris, the cover was resting on the dc insert. Will reinspect the lip. My shop vacuum is just not cutting it. Only removing about 655 of the dust. What CFM vacuum is needed for a clean carve? Any sugestion on makes or models of vacuums?

[fwharris]

Well finished a 17 hour carve on Cabbage Bark wood and it went off without a problem.
fwharris, the cover was resting on the dc insert. Will reinspect the lip. My shop vacuum is just not cutting it. Only removing about 655 of the dust. What CFM vacuum is needed for a clean carve? Any sugestion on makes or models of vacuums?


I am guessing that is about right for using a shop vac with the DC-INSERT. Shop vacs will work but because you are going from a 2" hose to a 4" opening in the insert you loose a good amount of suction. With out a separator between shop vac and the cw you will also need to clean the filter very often.

I and a lot of others have stated that a dust collection system with at least 650 cfm is a good starting point. I run a 2 hp 1650 cfm Harbor Freight dust collector. You can get them for around $200.00 and if you catch it at the right time with the sale promotion for around $180.00.

[peep]

My check tracking roller is coming back again. This time the gears are fine. Board looks level, but its 14" so can not do a quick pass in my planner (which is only 12") Does it in the middle and near the end of 3 boards. Brass roller looks fine and rollers ok. Has anyone ever changed the rubber roller on it? Could it be dry and shinny, maybe slipping?

Any ideas, I'm stumped.

[unitedcases]

Is the board nice and straight? I have had this happen before and the fix was double up some masking tape on the bottom.

[peep]

I put 5 layers of masking tape, 2 on the whole edge and 3 more around the area of the stall. More tape did help, but still often stalls. That is why I am thinking the robber on the brass roller might be at fault.

[SteveNelson46]

My check tracking roller is coming back again. This time the gears are fine. Board looks level, but its 14" so can not do a quick pass in my planner (which is only 12") Does it in the middle and near the end of 3 boards. Brass roller looks fine and rollers ok. Has anyone ever changed the rubber roller on it? Could it be dry and shinny, maybe slipping?

Any ideas, I'm stumped.

It could be the board sensor. While measuring, the machine will "look for" the end of the board after the trailing edge leaves the roller and decompresses. If it doesn't see the edge, the board will continue to move until it no longer makes contact with the tracking roller and the machine thinks there is something wrong with it. It could also be sawdust trapped in the rubber roller sensor. Lift the roller by hand to a "compressed" state and blow out the LDC panel end with compressed air. Worst case scenario: You may have to remove the LCD panel end of the machine to expose the spring and sensor to blow out the sawdust.

[bergerud]

The check tracking roller message indicates that the tracking roller encoder and the x drive encoder have disagreed. There are many possible causes for this. The tracking roller and the x drive motor are connected through the gears, belts, and board. Any slippage in this connection will cause the error. Also, interference of rubber belt with the tracking roller.

[DickB]

The check tracking roller message indicates that the tracking roller encoder and the x drive encoder have disagreed. There are many possible causes for this. The tracking roller and the x drive motor are connected through the gears, belts, and board. Any slippage in this connection will cause the error. Also, interference of rubber belt with the tracking roller.I'm getting this error on occasion during startup, but so far a retry or two has cleared the issue. I did get a 32 error once.

This error occurs only during the initial homing and measurement routine before the carving. It occurs when the measured backlash on the X–drive is too large or movement was not detected. It most likely occurs when there is an issue with the board that causes tracking problems. Go to the “Possible Board Problem” message section above to troubleshoot.





Most of you know me as an experienced user and I have done all of the prescribed checks:

Troubleshooting Steps



Check the board for defects (existing carvings, warping, holes, rounded edges, etc.) and make sure it is inserted correctly into the machine. For a detailed discussion on the board requirements please see the “Inserting a Board” section in the CarveWright Owner’s manual.


Verify that the board is thicker than .5”.


Check that the sliding plate is tight and up against the board. A board that is not captured by the sliding plate will allow the board to walk slightly from side to side. This small amount of walking can lead to a wide variance in measured lengths.


Check to see if the squaring plate (where the tracking sensor is attached) is loose. This is a rare issue but it can happen. If the square plate is loose, it will not measure the board right and could give the Edge Detection error, possible board removal, or give a wrong measurement for the board. Re-tighten the 2 screws that hold the squaring plate.


Verify that the board sensor rotates freely. (X sensor check is good.)


O-ring on the board tracking sensor is in place and not damaged.


Verify that the head pressure is within correct limits.


Verify that neither of the belts are damaged or rolled up.


Verify that the damper spring is still under the board tracking sensor.


Check to see that the outfeed rollers are not adjusted too high. If they are high they can lift the board off of the board tracking roller during operation and cause it to lose track of the position.


Check for dust in the board tracking sensor.


If none of the above steps solves the issue consult a senior engineer.


Looking for suggestions on what to check next - tracking roller encoder, x encoder, x gears? - should this problem persist.

[bergerud]

I noticed once that this error can come from rubber belts when the squaring plate is not perfectly square. Measure a long straight board placed a small distance from the squaring plate see if the board drifts sideways.

[CNC Carver]

I've had same error on long boards that need extra support. I had to add 2 supports on each side. Usually always have one but had to add the extra one and error went away.

[DickB]

I have sandpaper belts. When the problem surfaced, I tried measuring a short 9" board (actually tried several different boards) to eliminate support issues, and had the problem with that short board too. The board moves right a few inches first as the machine detects the edge, then moves left a fraction of an inch, then stops with the error.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Odds are that the Sand Paper Belt at the Brass Roller is rolled under... VERY hard to see and 9 out of 10 Dissmiss this as the problem...

My suggestion is to RIP a 1/2 inch section of the Sand Paper Belt under the Cut Motor by puncturing the belt at the metal roller and with the power off pushing the belt ripping the strip off exposing the metal tray... As it moves, I keep ripping it.... For ME it happens when I cut 6 inch wide boards.

And with Sensor Data check the proper function of the 2 Rubber Roller Switches. Call up the switches and crank down on a board and crank up.. watch for proper change is switches. Compressed and uncompressed. They get dust built up on them in layers where they rest when uncompressed and still show compressed and confuse the machine as it looks for the uncompressed to turn on the board sensor.

AL