conplacent

[aokweld101]

I, not to long ago about in the last week was bragging on how I did my flex shaft in that I probably maintained it on the cleaning of it, much more than what's required, well the heat index was at 101 degrees so I felt that the machine was running fine that I could go inside and cool down I was In for 1hr. 30 min and went to check on it and melted part of the flex shaft cover, I have a habit of doing the touch test, well anyway I cut the part that was melted, took the flex shaft apart and cleaned it, I caught it just in time before it done some damage. I think it was the lubricate that I used I changed up cause it was cheaper, the can said.. "for extreme conditions"... they lied...not doing that again !

[PCOutlaw]

What kind of lube were you using?
I tried using the dry Moly lube from Grainger and that didn't work...temp kept hitting around 140.
I just switched to "Yamalube" about a week ago, not happy with it so far... still hitting between 120 and 130.
My old "A" machine never had the flex shaft lubed and it kept right around 94.
My new "C" machine for some reason I can't get the temp down. I have one spot in the shaft that keeps getting overly hot, the rest of the shaft measures fine (between 86 - 97)

[aokweld101]

I'd have to look again I'm going to look for a dry lube this time.

[henry1]

here is what I use works great

[bergerud]

I'd have to look again I'm going to look for a dry lube this time.

I do not think dry lube is any good. The flex needs lubrication deep inside the flex. The real heat comes from internal friction of strands rubbing on strands not the friction between the flex and the sheath. I think the lube needs to wet the strands to get the lube inside. Either graphite or moly has to get between the strands. I have used the Gunk Liquid Wrench Industrial Chain Lube with moly (L716). My flex has 700 hours on it and it has never even been warm.

[chief2007]

Since not being ale to get the original Liquid wrench chain lube, I switch over to Cyclo Molly and graphite chain and cable lube. Haven't had any issues since using this lube for almost 2 years.

Temps on the flex shaft have always run in the 80s since I have used this.

[PCOutlaw]

I think part of my problem now is that I still have residue from the dry lube under the Yamalube.
Any suggestions on how to clean the flex shaft, before I try a new lube?

[chief2007]

Wipe down the flex shaft as best as possible to remove any of the old lube and then I would soak it in your new lube for a about 24 hrs and let it work its way into the flex shaft.

I would not suggest to use any cleaner on it as the residue from the cleaner may not completely dry or come off the flex shaft. This could break down your new lube and you would end up with the same problem again.

[lawrence]

Wipe down the flex shaft as best as possible to remove any of the old lube and then I would soak it in your new lube for a about 24 hrs and let it work its way into the flex shaft.

I would not suggest to use any cleaner on it as the residue from the cleaner may not completely dry or come off the flex shaft. This could break down your new lube and you would end up with the same problem again.

+1

Find the liquid wrench with Moly (it does still exist out there though is difficult to find) and give it a good soak, hang, wipe, and then try again

Lawrence

[lawrence]

XXXPulled link due to (read below) XXXX

They appear to have changed the packaging somewhat
Lawrence

[unitedcases]

Same here. If you do find a can it will last just short of forever.

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[PCOutlaw]

http://www.nationwideindustrialsupply.com/departments/chain-cable-lubricants/liquid-wrenchreg-chain-amp-wire-rope-lubricant-wmolly-71278

They appear to have changed the packaging somewhat
Lawrence

Lawrence
Would this be the same "formula", only the different packaging?

[bergerud]

I recall LHR doing tests and there being a difference between the L716 (old formula) and L711 (new formula). They said the new formula did not test as well. The L716 is all over the place here in Canada. I wonder why it is hard to get in the US.

[aokweld101]

I was using a lithium grease and everything was going good I couldn't find the can so went with another brand that said "FOR EXTREM CONDITIONS" ... and those words are still ringing in my head....

[bergerud]

I am not so sure lithium grease is the right lube for the flex either. The lithium is a thickening additive to keep the grease thick at higher temperature. The molybdenum disulphide, on the other hand, gets right in there and plates onto the metal. Both metal surfaces are coated with a hard sulfur layer and there is super slippery moly in between. It is not just grease. It is like ball bearings at the molecular level.

If you change to the moly stuff, you may want to clean out the grease first. I have never cleaned my flex but LG says he always cleans his.

[lynnfrwd]

Finally got liquid wrench folks to admit they changed the recipe.

Still got what we fouls that works on our website. $5 but must ship ground. Add it to your next order. We found it works good but only available in like 5 gallon buckets. So we have to pour it into small containers.


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[lynnfrwd]

Found*


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[aokweld101]

Thanks bererud, I think I might go with what lynnfrd said, If LHR thinks it's good than I would think it would be the best to use, I'll order it when I order a new flex shaft!

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Flex is a Critical Part and in my opinion the LHR version is the best as it is the old formula. I am just about out and plan to add it to my next order. There are so many things that have to happen for a long term successful operation of the flex. The Graphite, the Molly, and the Solvent to let it sink into the core. If you over lube or even use something different.... Some don't have the solvent to help carry it to the core and others have too much solvent or oil that migrates in 2 directions.. 1. Down into the Cut Motor Magnet Area and the solvent is likely the reason we have seen people post about the flex OUTER CORE coming loose from the hard part.... EXCESS Solvent likely caused this... to 2. The excess solvent and oil going down into the Z Truck... And you find a pool on top of the top bearing inside the top hat.

Other than the Engine Rebuilding Crane's Lube that I have heard good things about... the rest other than the old version of the Chain Lube with Molly is a Gamble... A Expensive Gamble...

And another CHEAP Insurance with the FLEX and Machine... Get a Battery Operated Smoke Detector to put above the machine and a Wireless Intercom to listen as you COOL OFF in the house...

AL

[lawrence]

the liquid wrench that I can find locally doesn't say "with Moly" on the can anymore- the one I linked does... I'm wondering if it is the old formula or just the new one with a different label...

Lawrence

[fwharris]

Lawrence,

I thought I read that they found out that liquid wrench changed the formula and it does not have the molly in it any more.

Al,

Was it not ChrisAlb who pointed us to the Crane Cam Lube with molly? It sure has worked great for me.

[lawrence]

agreed.... but the pic on this one is clearly of a different can than the old one (yellow instead of white) but it says "with molly" on the can and in the listing... just thought maybe it was the right formula.

I have 2 cans of the old stuff (a lifetime's worth) so it's not a factor to me either way- but hopefully a standard can be found.

v/r
Lawrence

[bergerud]

I think it was that the original stuff (L716) had organic moly and they changed the formula (L711 I think) and changed to synthetic moly. (It is a little strange that the L711 number also seemed to apply to an even older version.) LHR tested the new synthetic moly version and pronounced it unworthy. Both do say "with moly" on the cans. There is an old thread on this. I remember the company chemists saying the the new synthetic was supposed to be better (for most situations), yet LHR did not think it better for the flex application.

I find it a little strange that LHR has stayed with the graphite. That and that Henry uses lithium grease makes me wonder if the flex is as sensitive to the type of lube as we think.

[mtylerfl]

Yes, I'm the one who contacted the chemist. There is an old thread on that. Initially, he assured me (us) that the new formula was better than the old one and that the new formula had a clear moly instead of the black moly in the old formula. So, I reported that.

Right away, many folks disputed this (i.e.,that the new formula was better) so I contacted the chemist again for further reassurance. Upon further investigation, he learned that indeed, the new formula was NOT suitable for lube for our flexshafts after all and he apologized for his mistake. So, now we were back at square one. Old formula discontinued for consumer retail sale (environmental laws caused/required this)...new formula no good for us.

LHR found the correct, effective lube in the bulk quantities and now bottle it up for us. It's the only lube I would use after my one-and-only half can of old-formula (black) moly runs out. That should be in about 50 years or so...a little goes a long way and lasts a very long time.

[lawrence]

cool- copy all

thanks for the update/clarification guys- I'm pulling the link so no one buys it by mistake

Lawrence

[liquidguitars]

I use 3n1 oil seems to work ok but i sure its not recommended.

[PCOutlaw]

Ok, I have now tried using the following lubricants on the flexshaft –

“Dry Molly” lube (temp was around 140)
“Yamalube” (temp was between 120 and 130)
I just tried using “Crane Cam lube” (temp hitting 128)

All three of these temps where taken doing the same project (est. time 18 mins – actual project time 24 mins)

I am still having a problem with the temp of my flexshaft in one spot. (About an inch or so from the end of the support wire). The rest of the shaft is fine (86-95)

My old "A" machine (with 200+ hrs. “On Time” and 60+ hrs. “Cut Time”) never had the flex shaft lubed and it kept right around 94.
My new "C" machine (with 8 hrs. “On Time” and 5 hrs. “Cut Time”) for some reason I can't get the temp down.
I have not read anywhere about a “break-in” period for the flexshaft.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
Bob

[lawrence]

is 120 too hot to hold?

Lawrence

[bergerud]

(About an inch or so from the end of the support wire). The rest of the shaft is fine (86-95)
.... for some reason I can't get the temp down.
I have not read anywhere about a “break-in” period for the flexshaft.



If the hot spot is where the flex curves most, maybe you could try and get it a little straighter. I have the support wire taped to the flex so it works to keep the flex straighter.

I think there should be a break in period. I was thinking that one should only do shallow, short carvings for the first few hours. Many stores of new flexes melting may be because of this.

[lynnfrwd]

Don't bind too much as it will cause friction that equals heat.

Have you checked your spring to make sure there is no kink in it. Careful taking out and putting in.

Also, remember too much lubricant can be just as bad as not enough.

[liquidguitars]

I am still having a problem with the temp of my flexshaft in one spot. (About an inch or so from the end of the support wire). The rest of the shaft is fine (86-95)

One thing that can add to the heat is a dull carving bit...

[bergerud]

Connie has a good point. A major cause of heat is the flex being compressed. Make sure the core is free floating. I never thought to stretch the sheath..Humm.

That spot of max curvature is where the core would be pushed against the sheath. The purpose of that support wire is to try and keep that part of the flex straighter. So make sure it is doing that.

[fwharris]

Connie has a good point. A major cause of heat is the flex being compressed. Make sure the core is free floating. I never thought to stretch the sheath..Humm.

That spot of max curvature is where the core would be pushed against the sheath. The purpose of that support wire is to try and keep that part of the flex straighter. So make sure it is doing that.

Dan is correct and one tip Chris Rawls gave us at the conference is to make sure the core has a nice rounded arc. Also could there be some foreign material inside the core???

[PCOutlaw]

Lawrence – 120 is a little warm to hold on to for an extended period of time, not too just feel it.
Bergerud – I have not read anywhere of a “break – in period”, if there is one I wasn’t aware of it. The signs I’m trying to do are short (range anywhere from est. 16 – 24 mins each).
Connie – I did slide the spring out of the sheath to make sure it was “straight”, before I pulled it out I straightened and tugged (didn’t stretch it or pull on it) on the sheath to make it a straight line to pull the spring out. It looked good.
LG – the 90 V bit and the 1/8 cutting bits are both new

I thought the temp of the shaft shouldn’t go over 90+- (stay below triple digits).
My son is donating about 48 signs to his school (example attached), and I didn’t want it to cost me a new flexshaft ($75) on a new machine in the process.

[Digitalwoodshop]

WAG Alarm... (Another Wild AL Guess).... I have wondered if the length of the Core could be a issue..... Where if a core "Appeared" to be longer when stuffed into the Top Hat and into the Square slot in the Truck...

My WAG Theory is that IF the Motor Square Drive hole was Shallow....

OR the Physical Length of the Core was longer....

OR the outer Flex Rubber part was made slightly SHORTER....

All 3 could result in a length from the end of the Rubber outer flex to the tip of the core length to be slightly longer. The Longer Core when too long due to the above, cause the flex to PRESS on the inside outer curve of the Rubber Flex....

SO with mutable machines and different temperatures, a Measurement from the outer metal part that plugs into the Top Hat to the tip of the Core. You MAY find the Hotter Units have a longer FLEX Length...

AL

[PCOutlaw]

Al,

Tomorrow I am pulling the core from my "A" machine and going to try it in the "C" machine.
A little leary about trying the entire flexshaft.

[fwharris]

Check the squared ends of the shaft to insure there are no burrs, is so file them down..

[PCOutlaw]

Ok Al,
I took the core out of the flexshaft on my "A" machine and put it into the flexshaft on my "C" machine.
(No burrs on either end of either core)

So far my top temp has been 106 (I think I can live with that)
But I did notice that the core sticks out of the sheath more on the "C" machine by about 3/16".

I guess it's about time to add a flexshaft to the wish list for ordering.

[Digitalwoodshop]

While having both out, it would have been a interesting thing to do but lay them side by side for length....

And while you had them out.... Measure the depth of the hole in the Cut Motor... I had heard 2 unconfirmed reports that the hole might have been shallow causing a heat problem... but never got a confirmation with actual measurements...

My WAG theory about some with high temps is the length being longer due to one of the 3 things posted above and causing the flex to be pressed against the inside curve of the flex housing. Where a shorter relaxed flex shaft would not have that pressure....

Lots of WAG's...

AL

[PCOutlaw]

I also noticed that when I slid the core out of the "A" machine (that has never been lubed) it had ALOT of lube on it (thick). When I lubed my new one I thought maybe I had put too much lube on it, geez I didn't come close to the amount that was on the other one. I'm half temped to take the core back out and lather it up with more lube (half temped, "if it ain't broke - don't fix it"). But, I'm a happy camper now, it's topped out at 106 degrees, so I guess I can live with that.

And I'm loving the smoothness of the CT, smoother and quieter than the QC.

[PCOutlaw]

Update on Flexshaft temp issue...

The temp started to rise again on my flexshaft, and I also noticed that my carves were off on depth. The near side (keyboard) was not carving as deep as the far side. I found out the head was out of alignment about 0.189" (high on the near side). Realigned head and re-lubed shaft and now high temp is 94. Keeping my fingers crossed that that was the issue.