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TerryT
06-12-2013, 09:31 AM
From early versions through 1.186 I have made dozens, maybe hundreds, of these without problem. Now, 1.187 is doing weird things. Some of the dishes are patterns and some were made with the 3d tools. It seems that almost anything with a dish now has a groove cut around it and an ugly bevel (feather). Although easy enough to fix (set bit optimization to best on the dish) it is annoying. Anyone else seeing differences?

henry1
06-12-2013, 09:45 AM
From early versions through 1.186 I have made dozens, maybe hundreds, of these without problem. Now, 1.187 is doing weird things. Some of the dishes are patterns and some were made with the 3d tools. It seems that almost anything with a dish now has a groove cut around it and an ugly bevel (feather). Although easy enough to fix (set bit optimization to best on the dish) it is annoying. Anyone else seeing differences?
Now that you mention it I did see a different the feathering is giving me a problem

bergerud
06-12-2013, 09:48 AM
Yes, I have seen this. I am not quite sure why this happens. I think it has to do with the two ways to input depth and not the Designer version. One way is in the puffing dialog and to other is in the tool bar. They are different. If you input 0.25 in the puffing dialog and then 0.5 in the tool bar, I think you get the extra feather whereas if you had put 0.5 in the puffing dialog you you do not. The two numbers are conected as they update each other also. I will experiment and get back on this as it really is a bug I think.

bergerud
06-12-2013, 10:08 AM
Ok, I have played some. It appears to only be a display problem. If you save and re-open (or just move it) the problem is gone. It seems to happen if you use the tool bar edit window to increase the depth of the puff. If you use the puff dialog to increase the depth, it does not happen. I remember this happening in 1.186 also. I would say it is a display bug.

Edit: it is a little more than a display bug because saving each as a pattern gives different results. The pattern gets saved with last depth saved in the puff dialog. (I did not notice bit optimization as having any effect.)

jlovchik
07-23-2013, 10:20 AM
We introduced some code in 1.187 that creates a 1 pixel smoothing border around patterns in order to create more regular and smoother feathers. This was done to correct rough feathers on many of patterns that people were seeing and having trouble with. There are a few things you can do with this to achieve the results you need. First, is to remove the feathers and turn bit optimization to best. In most situations this will eliminate the issue. If there is still a line showing, the other options are to make the dish shape with the bubble puff tool from the 3D modeling suite and invert it. This will result in a much cleaner shape with nearly the same effect as your original design. If you don't have the 3D modeling tools and you own the patterns, you can group them, make pattern and then eliminate any anomalies in the pattern editor if they remain. You may even try opening the dish shape as it is now in the pattern editor and doing a trim to eliminate the extra pixel edge. I know it is frustrating when something starts behaving differently from how it did before, but we have to make trades sometimes when we fix a bigger problem. There are many options as to how to fix the problem you are having though, and I'd be happy to help you with it.


From early versions through 1.186 I have made dozens, maybe hundreds, of these without problem. Now, 1.187 is doing weird things. Some of the dishes are patterns and some were made with the 3d tools. It seems that almost anything with a dish now has a groove cut around it and an ugly bevel (feather). Although easy enough to fix (set bit optimization to best on the dish) it is annoying. Anyone else seeing differences?

TerryT
07-23-2013, 11:08 AM
"We introduced some code in 1.187 that creates a 1 pixel smoothing border around patterns in order to create more regular and smoother feathers. This was done to correct rough feathers on many of patterns that people were seeing and having trouble with."

Wow, that didn't seem to work very well.

" If there is still a line showing, the other options are to make the dish shape with the bubble puff tool from the 3D modeling suite and invert it. This will result in a much cleaner shape with nearly the same effect as your original design. "
I may be wrong but I believe the MPC I sent to you the dish WAS made with the 3d puffing tool.
Thanks for the answer, but it seems like you fixed something that wasn't broken and created a problem. When you go from little to no problems in 186 to this in 187 it is hard to see that it fixed anything. To me it is unacceptable. I guess I won't be moving up to 187 again, and certainly not to 2.0-2.01

I appreciate the response even if it was the wrong one. I was hoping that you would say you would fix it.

bergerud
07-23-2013, 11:51 AM
I have to agree with you Terry. A new bug was introduced. Look at the following mpc. If you resize the pattern on the left, the 1 pixel ring drops to the level of the inside circle and you get the pattern on the right. This did not happen in earlier versions of Designer.

CNC Carver
07-23-2013, 11:56 AM
Guess we will need to purchase the 2.0 if we want this fixed. Can someone try this in 2.0 and let us know if the unwanted fix (small 1 pixel ring around patterns) is still there.

jlovchik
07-23-2013, 12:27 PM
The file I received had a dish pattern. It may have originally been made with the bubble puff, but had been made into a pattern and then stretched. Stretching patterns from their original aspect ratio can cause irregularities in their edges. Stretching is a common "no-no" in pixel based graphics software as it will exaggerate the pixel edges to be more pronounced in the direction the graphic was stretched. Being that our software is used primarily by people without much graphic software experience, we try to correct for situations like these that can cause unpleasant results. Especially when they become very common problems. This edge problem can usually be fixed with trimming and rounding edges in the pattern editor, but, for those who don't own the pattern or don't have pattern editor, they would be stuck with a pattern that didn't carve well. This is why we introduced the 1 pixel smoothing buffer, so the feathers from these edges wouldn't be so rough. It was a major problem that needed to be fixed.

The inconvenience you are having is the 1 pixel effect on a stretched pattern that is also been inverted or dished. This brings that edge anomaly to the surface rather than the base and the 1 pixel edge becomes more apparent. It is obviously not the desired result in this situation, but for the vast majority of situations it does solve the problem. If you redraw the dish shape at the size that you need it and do the inverted bubble puff the edge problem will no longer be there.



"We introduced some code in 1.187 that creates a 1 pixel smoothing border around patterns in order to create more regular and smoother feathers. This was done to correct rough feathers on many of patterns that people were seeing and having trouble with."

Wow, that didn't seem to work very well.

" If there is still a line showing, the other options are to make the dish shape with the bubble puff tool from the 3D modeling suite and invert it. This will result in a much cleaner shape with nearly the same effect as your original design. "
I may be wrong but I believe the MPC I sent to you the dish WAS made with the 3d puffing tool.
Thanks for the answer, but it seems like you fixed something that wasn't broken and created a problem. When you go from little to no problems in 186 to this in 187 it is hard to see that it fixed anything. To me it is unacceptable. I guess I won't be moving up to 187 again, and certainly not to 2.0-2.01

I appreciate the response even if it was the wrong one. I was hoping that you would say you would fix it.

jlovchik
07-23-2013, 12:30 PM
When you turn bit optimization to best, the drop is eliminated.

"I have to agree with you Terry. A new bug was introduced. Look at the following mpc. If you resize the pattern on the left, the 1 pixel ring drops to the level of the inside circle and you get the pattern on the right. This did not happen in earlier versions of Designer."

TerryT
07-23-2013, 02:01 PM
Unfortunately I removed 187 and went back to 186 and can't open your MPC. Could you post a pic? Thanks.

TerryT
07-23-2013, 02:03 PM
Guess we will need to purchase the 2.0 if we want this fixed. Can someone try this in 2.0 and let us know if the unwanted fix (small 1 pixel ring around patterns) is still there.

I think we were already told that it is the same in 2.0.

bergerud
07-23-2013, 02:17 PM
When you turn bit optimization to best, the drop is eliminated.

True. The edge is fixed with bit optimization best. It just bothers me to see the pattern change on resize. Smoothing the edge is one thing but changing its height seems buggy to me.

jlovchik
07-23-2013, 03:27 PM
It is assuming the outer edge of the pattern is the base of the pattern, or the set depth level, so when this is not the case is when you see it. The programmers are aware now of the scenarios where it is not performing the ideal way, and we discussed it at length in our software meeting yesterday. They are investigating how we might be able to handle it differently for these types of cases you all are pointing out. The majority of the time, this is a great fix that most people needed.


True. The edge is fixed with bit optimization best. It just bothers me to see the pattern change on resize. Smoothing the edge is one thing but changing its height seems buggy to me.

bergerud
07-23-2013, 03:33 PM
Sounds good.

TerryT
07-24-2013, 12:18 PM
The programmers are aware now of the scenarios where it is not performing the ideal way, and we discussed it at length in our software meeting yesterday. They are investigating how we might be able to handle it differently for these types of cases you all are pointing out.

I'm not sure, exactly, what that means but I will assume you are trying to fix it? Maybe have it selectable (on or off) like the conforming vectors and bit optimization?

TerryT
07-31-2013, 11:04 AM
It's been about a week and I haven't heard anything yet. How is the fix for 1.187 coming along?

jlovchik
07-31-2013, 11:30 AM
They are working on a different solution.

TerryT
07-31-2013, 05:09 PM
Thanks Joe