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View Full Version : Sealing wood to spray paint into Vcarve help



Ton80
06-04-2013, 02:59 PM
I frequently find myself hurling around choice language out in the shop when I attempt to sand away paint overspray from a Vcarve as the last step before staining. It seems like I have tried a number of different ways to seal the wood to prevent the paint from bleeding into the pores but most of the time it doesn't work well. Then I end of having to remove too much wood and the details start to sand away so I'm forced to stop and just deal with it. If the stain is dark then it's not as much of a problem but a light stain or a clear finish will end up exaggerating the issue which leads to more choice language flying out of my mouth.

Has anyone found a product that completely seals the wood without penetrating too far into the pores? That would lead to another problem where the stain would not absorb into the surface properly.


I use cans of spray paint and I have been wondering of something like an air brush might be better at getting the paint into the Vcarve but not pushing it down into the surrounding pores.

You can see the average level of detail I work with in the attached image so masking off is not practical more is placing contact paper or other films on the surface before carving.

ANY HELP would be appreciated. !!62699


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fwharris
06-04-2013, 03:15 PM
I stain first and then seal with a couple of light coats of clear lacquer before painting. I do not use spray paint though but if I get out side the lines with the paint brush a quick wipe off does the trick or if I miss a goof up it usually sands off real easy.

Rob Mulgrew
06-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Try using contact paper from a local craft store or order online. The contact paper will not stick to wood alone so you will need to appy a clearcoat or apply some layer for it to stick to. Then carve through the contact paper, spray the letters and then remove the contact paper.
I have been experimenting with different methods of doing this myself over the past couple weeks. Last night I did a vcarve and just painted the letters by hand with black acrylic paint and sanded off the excess and it came out great. The acrylic did not bleed into the wood.

lawrence
06-04-2013, 03:51 PM
yup, don't use paint... use spray ink (which sits on the surface rather than weeping in) It dries very fast too.

I like the marsh's brand

Lawrence

myshop1044
06-04-2013, 04:37 PM
Ton80 I put a very this coat of sealer over the entire surface of my signs, then I paint with black paint just in the lettering
and lines I want black. Then I sand over the entire surface to remove any excess paint that has gone over the "V" lettering.
I like to make sure I cover all the sides of the "V" lettering and leave a little on the top of the board. After sanding with a 120 grit
paper I put the final coat of sealer over the whole surface for the finishing touch. see my attached

Digitalwoodshop
06-04-2013, 08:22 PM
I gave up long ago on can spray paint... It's too thin and wicks up the wood and makes a mess... I use latex paint and have been very happy since... Slop it in and after dry sand... It's thicker and water base rather than solvent base most times.

For bigger projects I even have been known to blow out the excess with my lp air hose out on my deck... same with clear poly... WITH proper Respirator and glasses..

AL

brdad
06-05-2013, 05:39 AM
I've always just used my shop vac to suck out excess when needed.

Ton80
06-05-2013, 06:58 AM
I stain first and then seal with a couple of light coats of clear lacquer before painting. I do not use spray paint though but if I get out side the lines with the paint brush a quick wipe off does the trick or if I miss a goof up it usually sands off real easy.

I don't mind this process if the carves are less complicated. Trying to get the paint into all those little lines though could take me close to two hour, maybe a little longer. Having the stain and finish does make being ultra neat a non-issue though.


Try using contact paper from a local craft store or order online. The contact paper will not stick to wood alone so you will need to appy a clearcoat or apply some layer for it to stick to. Then carve through the contact paper, spray the letters and then remove the contact paper.
I have been experimenting with different methods of doing this myself over the past couple weeks. Last night I did a vcarve and just painted the letters by hand with black acrylic paint and sanded off the excess and it came out great. The acrylic did not bleed into the wood.

I have considered using a stick on film.. they actually make masks for just this purpose but I have never tried because of all the tiny pieces of film I would have to get in and tweezer off the wood after the carve is finished. There is always some sanding that needs to be done before painting though and I imagine that would end up removing any small pieces of paper leaving areas prone to problems.

The acrylic is actually how I have been doing this as of late and I have had good results like you mentioned. It does take a bit longer than spraying but good results for sure.


yup, don't use paint... use spray ink (which sits on the surface rather than weeping in) It dries very fast too.

I like the marsh's brand

Lawrence

Lawrence, Hmmm. I have read once before about spray inks. Going to have to look into these. Do they come as a spray can or are they used in an air-brush?


Ton80 I put a very this coat of sealer over the entire surface of my signs, then I paint with black paint just in the lettering
and lines I want black. Then I sand over the entire surface to remove any excess paint that has gone over the "V" lettering.
I like to make sure I cover all the sides of the "V" lettering and leave a little on the top of the board. After sanding with a 120 grit
paper I put the final coat of sealer over the whole surface for the finishing touch. see my attached

Are you using a regular sanding sealer? Never used it but that is because I spoke with a minwax rep and asked if it would work for this purpose but it sounds like the product is designed to soak into the wood and penetrate anywhere from 1/16 to 1/8" which would end up interfering with a penetrating stain. Have you tried using a stain like Minwax after applying the sealer or do you mostly work with clear coats/no stain? The results look very clean so if this doesn't mess with a stain I might give it a try if I can find the same sealer you are using...


I gave up long ago on can spray paint... It's too thin and wicks up the wood and makes a mess... I use latex paint and have been very happy since... Slop it in and after dry sand... It's thicker and water base rather than solvent base most times.

For bigger projects I even have been known to blow out the excess with my lp air hose out on my deck... same with clear poly... WITH proper Respirator and glasses..

AL

That sounds like something that should be a picture associated with ;) Haven't tried latex but the acrylic is basically going on the same way, fairly thick if you use a good brand so it doesn't bleed in. Maybe I have been trying to be too neat when I brush the acrylic in. THis method does seem to get me the results I am after but not the time savings I'm trying to achieve to keep profits/production speed at a certain level.. Maybe I can try applying the paint in larger amounts since it's not going to have the bleeding issue.


I've always just used my shop vac to suck out excess when needed.

oopphhh ;) <--- the selection of smiley's is pretty lame .. really wanted a shocked face for this , lol

JoeinWestMich
06-05-2013, 07:15 AM
If you are willing to invest some time, I would suggest getting a good quality airbrush. You can use acrylic or even latex paints thinned properly and get a very fine line. I can spray letters MUCH faster than I can using a fine brush. But it takes a bit of practice.... more than say a HVLP sprayer. But once you get the hang of it, it might pay off down the road. I got my practice in from years of making plastic models. With an airbrush, I could paint fine seam lines and rivets with virtually no overspray. And those are much smaller than the dimensions of the letter carves you are making. Maybe someone out there is actually using one for signs and can give you a suggestion as to best airbrush for this purpose. I don't make signs (maybe one or two here or there) so I wouldn't want to steer you wrong, and my airbrush is now almost 20 years old.

Ton80
06-05-2013, 07:19 AM
yup, don't use paint... use spray ink (which sits on the surface rather than weeping in) It dries very fast too.

I like the marsh's brand

Lawrence

Lawrence,

Just checked google for this quickly and it looks like they make their products for shipping purposes???? At least that was the main purpose I found it being advertised for. Does that sound like the same Marsh brand you are talking about or do they make multiple products. Have a website addy on a can by any chance?

Thx, John

Ton80
06-05-2013, 07:27 AM
If you are willing to invest some time, I would suggest getting a good quality airbrush. You can use acrylic or even latex paints thinned properly and get a very fine line. I can spray letters MUCH faster than I can using a fine brush. But it takes a bit of practice.... more than say a HVLP sprayer. But once you get the hang of it, it might pay off down the road. I got my practice in from years of making plastic models. With an airbrush, I could paint fine seam lines and rivets with virtually no overspray. And those are much smaller than the dimensions of the letter carves you are making. Maybe someone out there is actually using one for signs and can give you a suggestion as to best airbrush for this purpose. I don't make signs (maybe one or two here or there) so I wouldn't want to steer you wrong, and my airbrush is now almost 20 years old.

I have been toying with the idea of an air-brush for a while.. not just specifically for this purpose but to get some more natural effects. Used an air-brush as a teenager when I was into sketching and wanted to try painting but I never took it too far at the time. It would be a cool skill to have though. This use of an air-brush was suggested to me in a sign-making forum so it might be the right solution for me to keep speeds up and avoid issues associated with products like rustoleum/krylon paints I've tried so far.

lawrence
06-05-2013, 08:12 AM
this is the stuff I use

http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v400-1705/sign_making

It sits on the surface and for many woods, doesn't seep in very much/at all. I still usually seal the pores first with a coat of shellac (which dries very fast here in Tucson) but it does work for me...

Lawrence

Ton80
06-05-2013, 11:44 AM
this is the stuff I use

http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v400-1705/sign_making

It sits on the surface and for many woods, doesn't seep in very much/at all. I still usually seal the pores first with a coat of shellac (which dries very fast here in Tucson) but it does work for me...

Lawrence

Great! Gonna order some today and give it a shot... thanks!
john

Ton80
06-12-2013, 06:25 PM
Well the Marsh spray is a winner! I decided to go for speed here and did not pretreat the pine at all before spraying the Marsh stencil ink all over the surface and filling the vcarved areas. A palm sander easily removed the overspray and there was no bleeding which is normally a major problem on pine.

Thanks for the awesome tip, Lawrence. Now I can have great results and not waste time with a paint brush to fill the Vcarve or have to pretreat the surface of the wood.

62865


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lawrence
06-12-2013, 07:35 PM
Glad the tip helped! If you seal with a quick coat of shellac or lacquer (both of which dry in about 5 minutes here) the results will be even better-

Lawrence

unitedcases
06-13-2013, 06:07 AM
Well the Marsh spray is a winner! I decided to go for speed here and did not pretreat the pine at all before spraying the Marsh stencil ink all over the surface and filling the vcarved areas. A palm sander easily removed the overspray and there was no bleeding which is normally a major problem on pine.

Thanks for the awesome tip, Lawrence. Now I can have great results and not waste time with a paint brush to fill the Vcarve or have to pretreat the surface of the wood.

62865


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What grit sandpaper?

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lawrence
06-13-2013, 08:42 AM
one thing I'll add- the marsh's spray ink works VERY well with the concept of covering a board in tape or contact paper and then carving and spraying on the finish- it doesn't "weep" at all under the tape like spray paint does.

Sometimes I sand, but often when I don't use the above technique, I first scrape off the ink. It comes off pretty cleanly with a putty knife.

Lawrence

badbert
06-13-2013, 10:01 AM
If you are afraid of stain not penetrating after sealing. Try Gel-stains.

Ton80
06-13-2013, 12:35 PM
What grit sandpaper?

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That was an older 120 disc on my Festoolaid orbital.


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Ton80
06-13-2013, 12:36 PM
If you are afraid of stain not penetrating after sealing. Try Gel-stains.

That is an option. The Zar stains I have used work really nice and they have a wide range of shades.


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