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SteveNelson46
05-30-2013, 05:45 PM
Okay, I just got the email from Carvewright announcing the long awaited Designer 2.0 to be demonstrated at the 2013 Conference. The question is; when is the expected release date for retail purchase? I'm ready to buy it now!

brdad
05-30-2013, 06:12 PM
We're gonna have to buy it?

peep
05-30-2013, 07:09 PM
Love to know what the new features are

rmock
05-30-2013, 07:39 PM
I still don't fully use all of the features with the current version. Just have to say how impressed I am with all the software and the ease of use if just unreall.

lynnfrwd
05-30-2013, 07:52 PM
They are trying to get it done by conference. Just got it working on Mac, so looking good. Needs some more testing and debugging.

I know u all want to volunteer, but I think we got that covered.


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b.sumner47
05-30-2013, 09:01 PM
Wish I could go to the conference, sounds great ! Maybe next one. Capt Barry

CW-HAL9000
05-31-2013, 11:35 AM
Purchase? Designer has always been part of purchasing the machine. It seems as though carvewright is starting to charge for all additional software, even upgrades now? I am really concerned about this trend. I hope they are not trying to replace machine sales with more and more revenue from those of us who have already purchased. There will be a breaking point.

rcdages
05-31-2013, 12:00 PM
Nothing is FREE

It takes money for R&D

lawrence
05-31-2013, 12:06 PM
Purchase? Designer has always been part of purchasing the machine. It seems as though carvewright is starting to charge for all additional software, even upgrades now? I am really concerned about this trend. I hope they are not trying to replace machine sales with more and more revenue from those of us who have already purchased. There will be a breaking point.

I speculate that the original designer (as with all updates and patches to designer) will continue to be free- new features continue to be "ala carte" and I appreciate this very much.

I know it seems like we get nickle and dimed to death, but I would rather have the option to buy new features as long as the original designer is still supported. I like LHR's business model when it comes to software design and sales very much- I consider it to be one of the company's best traits.

Lawrence

Bigtyme
05-31-2013, 12:25 PM
I agree with Lawrence about the current software model. I like the ability to choose the add-ons I want and pass on those that are over my head (which are most :) ). I hope this model continues along with support for the basic software package. LHR has done a pretty good job of givings us options and I enjoy using the ones I have purchased. Perhaps someday when the real job doesn't call for 60 plus hours a week, I can learn a little more about the others.....

rcdages
05-31-2013, 12:36 PM
I speculate that the original designer (as with all updates and patches to designer) will continue to be free- new features continue to be "ala carte" and I appreciate this very much.

I know it seems like we get nickle and dimed to death, but I would rather have the option to buy new features as long as the original designer is still supported. I like LHR's business model when it comes to software design and sales very much- I consider it to be one of the company's best traits.

Lawrence

Lawrence,

You have hit the nail on the head.

I agree with you 100%.

CW-HAL9000
05-31-2013, 01:59 PM
I fully understand that research and development costs money. However one of the benefits for buying the machine is the software that comes with it.

I think as people look at the competition and this machine they will see all of the additional software as additional costs that they will eventually need to spend and the price then starts to become equal to that of some of the more expensive hobby machines.

I am a big carvewright fan, But the reason I purchased was the value of the total package. I really think in their business model carvewright has to consider that educated buyers will look at the total package and might start to become turned off at all the add-ons some of which may be necessary for what they want to do.

It is starting to seem as though we are being Nickel and dimed to death and people will start to catch on And consider it a negative to purchase this machine. I don't intend this to be a negative post rather I really want LHR to see both sides and understand what some of their customers and maybe only me thinks about this.

When the keyhole tool became an added cost that was when I really started to get concerned and now that basic designer could be split off into two designers one you have to pay for and one comes with the machine this also worries me.

Just my two cents which I realize nobody asked for.

CW-HAL9000
05-31-2013, 02:02 PM
Lawrence, one final thought what would be the incentive for LHR to continue to support patch and update the free designer rather then update and make the new designer better in order to increase sales of the additional software?

rmock
05-31-2013, 02:42 PM
I just want to add my 2 cents. The Carvewright is an exceptional machine with great capabilities. The software is outstanding in ease of use and understanding. yes addons cost extra so do running boards and brushgaurds on a new truck.
Do you need the extras to accomplish most projects? maybe maybe not. I guess I may be old school but I like using my scrollsaw and bandsaw to cut projects out. I like using my router table to make keyholes.

lawrence
05-31-2013, 02:49 PM
Lawrence, one final thought what would be the incentive for LHR to continue to support patch and update the free designer rather then update and make the new designer better in order to increase sales of the additional software?

I honestly don't know the details of the new software package - I'm just speculating about it and assuming that it is an addition rather than a replacement but I really don't know. (but wish I did)

We're all going to just have to wait and see methinks, but hopefully this is another set of "options" that is not required but is useful to some. (My imagination gets the better of me when I think about ideas like speed control, custom bits showing in designer, hotkeys, true "use same settings and just carve again" settings for sleds, export to standard G-code etc)

I don't usually recommend that new users get more than the basic designer and the centerline/conforming vectors add ons. IMHO It is really difficult to jump right into the other software without having a working knowledge of the base software first and it really allows you to tailor your software purchases to your needs. (it also allows the purchaser to wait until the software is on sale!)

Again, just my .02 and I wish I had more information that I could share... perhaps LHR will leak a few tantalizer details?

Lawrence

tutor
05-31-2013, 04:40 PM
Nothing says that a person can stay on the version they have and continue to use it as they have. I know a customer of mine that is still on DOS and as long as he does not try to add any other software it will work, until some day when it crashs and he has to upgrade. Any upgrade does not limit itself to selling new software although most want to do more as they learn and grow. In the 30 years I have owned my companyI had seen many new products and services, and now we are going from pots lines to IP. All cost money but you can save by staying with what you got.

SteveNelson46
05-31-2013, 05:54 PM
Like Lawrence, I'm just speculating here also. I assume that if you purchase a new machine, the latest software will be included. If you upgrade from an older version you will have to purchase it separately. This is standard in the industry. For example, if you buy a new computer it will have the latest OS. If you already have a computer with an older OS you will have to purchase the new OS separately.

badbert
05-31-2013, 06:26 PM
Designer 2.0 is ok... Where is Carvewright 2.0?! We want 24" wide, 2" carving depth, 3" cutting depth, USB port... etc. :) Looking forward to seeing 2.0 in action!

bergerud
05-31-2013, 06:27 PM
I think this whole thread is a misunderstanding. Just because Steve used the word "purchase". Is there any other reason why anyone thinks the software policy has changed???

fwharris
05-31-2013, 06:57 PM
I think this whole thread is a misunderstanding. Just because Steve used the word "purchase". Is there any other reason why anyone thinks the software policy has changed???

Dan,

Great point! Some times "silence" is not golden! I've tried to sneak some info out of the CarveWright folks and trust me them lips are sealed! All I could get was that some new features will be rolled out. No mention of that the 2.0 will be a purchase feature but that the features would be..

rickyz
05-31-2013, 09:15 PM
as long as it doesn't interfere with the pom's, I'm good...:p

lynnfrwd
05-31-2013, 09:18 PM
Have u guys noticed, you don't have to confirm your password anymore? Also, we can change your Customer Account password now. Not just some weird combo. Reset still gives you weird combo, but you can log in and change it.


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lawrence
05-31-2013, 09:54 PM
Have u guys noticed, you don't have to confirm your password anymore? Also, we can change your Customer Account password now. Not just some weird combo. Reset still gives you weird combo, but you can log in and change it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't notice that, but I did notice that you're not giving us any hints about 2.0 Connie! :)

Lawrence

SteveNelson46
05-31-2013, 10:39 PM
I didn't mean to open a can of worms. Everything I said was pure speculation and I have absolutely no inside knowledge other than what we were all told.

lawrence
05-31-2013, 10:52 PM
no can as far as I can tell Steve... we're all just guessing and I think that's probably half of the fun :)

Lawrence

lynnfrwd
05-31-2013, 11:56 PM
I like my job. ;) ;) ;)


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Digitalwoodshop
06-01-2013, 12:11 AM
I am just SO happy to see all this "Development"... Sure beats Closing the Doors and walking away.... Like SO many US Companies have done....

Now we just need to develop the "AL Who" CW Software Remote Access Interface that links the CW DB25 Connector on the Computer to LHR "Virtual Troubleshooting Team" via YOUR Computer.... LOL... Analyzing your CW Problem REAL TIME.... The Matag Repairman in a "Patch Cable" to your computer...

I was watching a TV Program on a company that made Ice Rinks and all the equipment..... It included a Remote Access so when the System in Korea went on the Fritz the Company in PA could troubleshoot it from Pennsylvania... CW Remote ACCESS..... :)

AL

liquidguitars
06-01-2013, 02:07 AM
Analyzing your CW Problem REAL TIME I am in as long as LHR can remotely raise and lower the table for me...

lynnfrwd
06-01-2013, 09:13 AM
I think this means the price of the machine just went up A LOT!! Lol.


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Digitalwoodshop
06-01-2013, 11:58 AM
CW "AIR AUTOMATION" Version.... NOW in a 24 inch WIDE Format..... Air Cylinders to raise and lower the main Head... LOL... Dream on...

Was talking to MT this morning and mentioned my "Fantasy Remote Access" idea and He said He had not heard of that yet... I told him I made it up.... LOL...

AL Who...

Capt Bruce
06-01-2013, 09:59 PM
I'm seeing a pattern here like excited Kids waiting for Christmas morning . . . and I'm in here with everyone speculating what the morning of the 13th will bring with a great big red ribbon on it.

chebytrk
06-01-2013, 10:23 PM
ok... I'll play.... I figure 2.0 is going to be ALL the software packages already being sold being combined & sold for a "special" one time offer to conference attendees. LOL

badbert
06-01-2013, 11:03 PM
My guess! Designer 2.0 is about to become mainstream! That's right, you will be able to use Designer on OTHER machines!

brdad
06-02-2013, 04:26 AM
I really don't expect a lot of new stuff in 2.0 given that LHR likes to charge for add-ons, several of which IMO should just upgrades to the basic software. And I really don't have a problem with 2.0 not having all kinds of new features, I just hope they have fixed a lot of the quirks and limitations of the basic software. The pattern library could use a lot of work as can grids/attachments, options/defaults are very limited, and many other parts of the software are just lacking (If you can't drill a 0.9" diameter hole, why do they let you think you can?). Perhaps the firmware could be improved as well with better control of the cut order and speed.

bergerud
06-02-2013, 10:16 AM
If you can't drill a 0.9" diameter hole, why do they let you think you can?

I do not understand what you mean.

brdad
06-02-2013, 03:29 PM
I do not understand what you mean.

Well, since the machine is limited to 1/128" increments, your two choices near 0.9" are .898" (115/128") and 0.906" (29/32"). I know it's 2-6 thousandths of an inch, which is negligible when dealing with wood anyway, but it has caused me headaches when designing a project. a few thousandths is not much, but added together they can be off a fair amount. Also, try and enter 125/128" or it's equivalent .9765625" into a dimension box. You can't. So, if you want to be sure you end up with 125/128", you need to enter .977" (I think).

bergerud
06-02-2013, 07:02 PM
I do not think you are right about the 1/128. Maybe you are thinking about gray scale depths. In my experience, I get within a few thousandths all the time when milling. (The number of divisions on the encoder disks per inch of travel is huge.) There is a dialog input problem, I agree. 1/16 is not the same as 0.063 and you cannot type in 0.0625. If you type in 1/16, however, you get 0.0625. If you have trouble with milling accuracy, check your bit runout.

lawrence
06-02-2013, 08:02 PM
you beat me to it- bergerud. brdad, just type in the fraction and you will get exact measurements... no 2.0 needed :)

Lawrence

brdad
06-02-2013, 08:04 PM
You could be correct. But I could have sworn I read here in the forums or in the manual the stepper motors move in 1/128" increments. However, I can't find anything to back that claim now. Regardless, the stepper motors do step at some interval. One of the first times I noticed in a project is when I tried to inset a coin in a hole. I measured the coin with calipers and on a test piece in the CW drilled a set of holes increasingly smaller and larger by 1 or 2 thousandths to see which hole was the perfect size. It turned out that several of the holes fit the coin exactly the same. For example, I think you'll find any drill hole designed as between 0.747" and .754 will output the same size (apx. 0.75") hole. If it is not 1/128" increments, it'd be nice to know what the step is.

brdad
06-02-2013, 08:07 PM
you beat me to it- bergerud. brdad, just type in the fraction and you will get exact measurements... no 2.0 needed :)

Lawrence

That works for some fractions. You can't enter in 125/128" in fractional OR decimal (0.9765625") form.

And actually, I just tried entering in 1/16", and it outputs .063 as a decimal, not .0625. Maybe I'm not entering it in the correct location?

bergerud
06-02-2013, 08:21 PM
That works for some fractions. You can't enter in 125/128" in fractional OR decimal (0.9765625") form.

And actually, I just tried entering in 1/16", and it outputs .063 as a decimal, not .0625. Maybe I'm not entering it in the correct location?

I think the problem with the long decimals and 125/128 is only a data input and display problem. 1/16 does give 0.0625 as can be witnessed as to how the snap grid fits on a board. 0.063 is different. If I remember, there are like 6000 encoder ticks per inch for y and z. Maybe more for the x. Servo accuracy is not a problem. There may be something to what you say in how the software deals with numbers. Now I am going to have to do some experiments.

brdad
06-03-2013, 05:29 AM
I found the quoted information in the FAQs which shows I may be wrong.
Granted, they are talking about raster carving lines and not vectors like a drilled hole, but you'd think the resolution was comparable.
Now I'm even more confused than before. The only thing I can figure is the software only handles 1/128" increments with vectors and other dimensional data, even though the machine is capable of more?



What is the resolution of the machine?
The core capability of the CarveWright is as a carving machine. The machine configuration and control software are quite different than a classic mill. As such, the terms resolution and accuracy are hard to correlate to what you expect from a classic milling machine. Our controllable resolution is .00025″ on the Y and Z-axes and .0015″ on the X-axis. The accuracy of any single raster carving line is on the order of .005″ – .010″ in the Y and Z and the step width is between .005″ and .010″ depending on the quality setting you choose. When you are talking accuracy of position of two elements across a 60″ board the value is even higher.

bergerud
06-03-2013, 08:56 AM
Ok, I will do a test. 1/128 = 0.0078... I will drill a 0.496" hole. If you are right, the 0.496" hole should turn out to be either 63/128" = 0.492.." or 64/128" = 0.500".

As an accuracy test, drill a 1/2" hole and see just how close to 1/2" you get. I believe that bit run out is also involved in this. With my ER spindle, my 1/2" holes are such that a 1/2" router bit shank is a light snug fit. Just enough friction to support the weight of the bit. It only takes a slight run out to create a larger hole.

(I suppose this is a subject for a different thread since it may have little to do with Designer 2.0)

bergerud
06-03-2013, 09:28 AM
Ok, I drilled a 0.496" hole in some cast acrylic. It came out as 0.4965". I have to say that I do not think there is any rounding to 1/128 ths.

henry1
06-03-2013, 09:49 AM
got agree with bergerud being he is a math teacher

brdad
06-03-2013, 11:42 AM
Agreed, these posts could be moved to their own topic. Sorry to everyone for straying and sorry to bore anyone not interested...

I made a test cut as well. 24 holes in acrylic - using the 3/16" bit in my Rock Chuck, varying from 0.490" to 0.513" in 0.001" increments. I also made three test holes of 3/16", 1/4", and 3/8" to verify any run-out...

One conclusion I have come to is my holes are not round. On the three test holes, the Y dimension came out within 0.001" of the design size. It seems like run-out should be more than that, but my 3/16" bit may not be exactly 3/16" either.

As far as the other 24 test holes - On the Y axis, my measured hole often comes very close to the designed hole, most of the time even smaller by 2-3 thousandths. But they are not consistent. The lack of the consistency is probably the machine - I don't think we could expect the CW to consistently maintain .001" tolerances. The X axis measurements are all over by 5-7 thousandths, which I might be able to correct with calibration, but no amount of calibration will cure any inconsistency. My 0.5" designed hole came out at X = 0.505" and Y = 0.494"

Incidentally, finding the hole my half inch shaft router bit fits in to - It will drop right into the 0.504" designed hole, and is a tight press fit into the .503" designed hole. The bit measured out at 0.4995", the actual hole sizes were X = 0.506" and Y = 0.499" for the tight-fit hole and X = 0.508" and Y = 0.504" for the loose hole.

In either case, it does look like my 1/128" theory is debunked. But I like finding the truth whether I'm wrong or not. Maybe I should change over to metric where I can't get confused with fractions and the fact Designer can't load more than 3 decimal places!

bergerud
06-03-2013, 12:12 PM
Your y data seems pretty good. Run out does not seem to be a problem. Maybe all you need is a little x axis tweaking.

Digitalwoodshop
06-03-2013, 12:38 PM
WOW... Thecno Speak at it's best..... to me.... "Humidity and Wood the Sponge trumps .00001."

My brother was a MR2 or Machinist on a Sub Tender in Norfolk in the late 80's. Watching him machine a pump shaft then give it time to cool before making another cut after measuring... Taking into account expansion and contraction...

In my last 4 years in the Navy I did Shipboard Weapons Alignment. We would use Surveyors Transits or Theodolites to measure the Gyros, Radars, Guns and Missiles Roller Paths and install corrections to the software to correct for slight tilt between all the elements. As the Sun came up and started heating the Warm Side of the Ship, we could see the readings move.... Quitting time.... OR as we called the alignment... a "Snap Shot" of the system in time" 30 minutes later the numbers would be different... Now they even measure the Satellite Communication Antennas...

I remember a post in 2007 where a user had a broken X Gear and it came from cutting a board that was sitting edge down on the Cement Floor and had sucked up moisture to the point that it was wider on the end then middle and JAMMED....

AL

CarverJerry
06-03-2013, 02:08 PM
If you need an exact size of a hole say like in acrylic then I'd say drill it undersize and use a reamer to hold perfect size, like they do in a machine shop, and as Al said temp is a big factor in exact sizes, weather it's ID (inside diameter) or OD (outside diameter). Just my experience in the 40+ years as a machinist.

lawrence
06-03-2013, 02:52 PM
I think the way it works is that it shows .063 in the box but the machine actually records .0635, but I'm sure someone with more knowlege on this will be around to correct me if I'm wrong.

Lawrence

brdad
06-03-2013, 04:38 PM
I think the way it works is that it shows .063 in the box but the machine actually records .0635, but I'm sure someone with more knowlege on this will be around to correct me if I'm wrong.

Lawrence

I am guessing that is correct as well, but that is one of my big issues, nobody knows, or those that know don't tell. I can accept the machine may be off and that the wood will shrink or expand. But I don't think it's right for the machine to report .063 if it is capable of cutting .0625. It actually matters less in the final product than it does in the design - it gets confusing adding decimals rounded off to a digit(s) less than the machine is capable of cutting.

bergerud
06-03-2013, 06:12 PM
Make a snap grid using 1/16". The dialog box will display 0.063. Click ok and you now have a grid with 0.0625 spacing. To prove it to yourself, bring up the dialog box again and even though it shows 0.063, type in 0.063. You will see the grid change. If you had typed 1/16 again, it would not have changed.

Or just make a snap grid typing 0.063 and notice that you cannot make a 1" X 1" square. You get a 1.008" X 1.008" square. ( 16*0.063=1.008 )

This was one of my eureka moments when I discovered the exactness of fractions.

SteveEJ
06-03-2013, 08:10 PM
OK.. So Connie is smiling now that the subject is NOT Designer 2.0.. LOL

What would you like to see in the basic program? More speed control of the spindle? Maybe control of the carve sequence? Added user defined bits? Anyone else??

fwharris
06-03-2013, 08:14 PM
OK.. So Connie is smiling now that the subject is NOT Designer 2.0.. LOL

What would you like to see in the basic program? More speed control of the spindle? Maybe control of the carve sequence? Added user defined bits? Anyone else??

Improved vector control/capabilities, improvements on the cut path/cut out feature, back lighting for lithophanes.

brdad
06-03-2013, 08:27 PM
Make a snap grid using 1/16". The dialog box will display 0.063. Click ok and you now have a grid with 0.0625 spacing. To prove it to yourself, bring up the dialog box again and even though it shows 0.063, type in 0.063. You will see the grid change. If you had typed 1/16 again, it would not have changed.

Or just make a snap grid typing 0.063 and notice that you cannot make a 1" X 1" square. You get a 1.008" X 1.008" square. ( 16*0.063=1.008 )

This was one of my eureka moments when I discovered the exactness of fractions.

I get what you're saying, but if I make you an mpc with two drilled holes in it, one at 1.063 and one at 1-1/16" - good luck telling which is which! ;)

RMarkey
06-04-2013, 11:13 AM
What would you like to see in the basic program? More speed control of the spindle? Maybe control of the carve sequence? Added user defined bits? Anyone else??
Improved vector control/capabilities, improvements on the cut path/cut out feature, back lighting for lithophanes.

I'll answer - in no particular order, yes,yes,no,no,no,no,yes. :-P

This thread cracks me up.

bjbethke
06-04-2013, 11:30 AM
I'll answer - in no particular order, yes,yes,no,no,no,no,yes. :-P

This thread cracks me up.

Looks like one of these days the young folks will fairer this unit out, us old folks just Waite and see, time is too impotent to worry about things.

Digitalwoodshop
06-04-2013, 12:02 PM
"In no particular order...." LOL.... Love it..

This has turned into the Wiki Lounge Thread...

AL