Flex Shaft Melt Down

[ronboley]

I've read several posts abut flex shaft problems. Today in the middle of a 3 hour carve the outer plastic sheath on my flexshaft melted off!...Oh shoot!...I stopped the carve and let everything cool down. After removing the plastic sheath that was left and the inner core, everything seems ok. I lubricated the inner core, reassembled and completed the carve. The flexshaft (minus the plasic outer sheath) was cool thru the rest of the carve. So the mystery is what was going on to heat up the flexshaft enough to melt the plastic? Did the lube just give out and boom there goes the sheath? Maybe others have had some simillar experience and found what happened in their case. I sure don't know what went on here. The flexshaft has been no more than warm before this and I've done 3-4 hour carves in oak. Things that cross my mind....flexshaft not properly seated in the truck, it seemed ok on disassembly...bit getting dull...maybe...been a while since the flexshaft has been lubed...also maybe...Your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[bergerud]

According to LHR, a common reason for flex shaft heat up is that the core is not "floating". If it compressed between the motor and the spindle, it will heat up. They also say that after such a heat up, the core is toast and recommend you replace the whole flex assembly.

[fwharris]

Just adding on to Dan's comments, make sure the flex shaft has a nice arc from the back of the machine up to the cutting head. It should not have any tight bends..

[ronboley]

The flex shaft is still functioning and not getting any more than mildly warm so I'm still carving with it...ordered a new one this morning anyway. I guess the only conclusion is to lube the inner shaft regularly and make sure it's inserted properly...then hope for the best...Thanks guys for your input!

[Digitalwoodshop]

I had one burn up after doing maintenance. It sat out in the sun and I was too frisky with it when I grabbed it to install. I whipped it and the outer rubber was hot from the sun and it flexed like a wet noodle... I KINKED the Damper Spring and did not know it.. When I started the project the kinked spring was rubbing metal to metal and caused the heat to make it melt and smoke... And YES, the Smoke Detector did it's job.... I was standing out on the deck working and turned around to see the black smoke...

A Smoke Detector above the CW... As Martha Stewart would say...."A Good Thing"...

AL

[radman5506]

I had the same thing happen to me. I did as you did and lubed the shaft, no more overheating. The machine only had approximately 50 hours on it when it happened. I think it is supposed to last longer than that with the factory lube but mine did not. Any way I replaced the melted outer sheath and have had no further overheating problems. Still using the original shaft.

[jmoriearty]

My flex shaft melted down last week too, unfortunately, no smoke detector. I came in to a Z-axis stall, so I guess it stopped turning. We will have to see how much damage I did....uhg. I also have to replace my board sensor, the mounting holes have worried out on it. Looks it's order time for me.

[badbert]

Probably not the kinda advice I should be giving here... When mine melted (after a 40 project marathon) I needed it to finish the project. So I cleaned it really well with WD-40. I used heavy duty electrical shrink tubing. And made a "TEMPORARY" sheath for it. I probably should replace it some day...

[ronboley]

Just to let you guys know...the (now without exterior sheath) flex shaft is still working just fine with about another 8-9 hours of carving time...still not getting any more than mildly warm...I check it regularly now...and I beleive I will lube it more regularly...anyone have a feel for how often to lube the inner core ? I'll still repleace the whole assemblky after the new one arrives, but maybe establishment of a more regular schedule for lubrication of the inner core based on hours of carving is needed.

[dickcash]

About 5 years ago the flex shaft started to heat up and the outer sheath split open around the bend.
I bought a new one to replace it with but kept using it until it failed. That was 5 years ago. The new one is still waiting to be called to duty.
The split in the sheaf acts as a vent to release some heat. It's never run cooler. Might be a feature to add.

[fwharris]

Just to let you guys know...the (now without exterior sheath) flex shaft is still working just fine with about another 8-9 hours of carving time...still not getting any more than mildly warm...I check it regularly now...and I beleive I will lube it more regularly...anyone have a feel for how often to lube the inner core ? I'll still repleace the whole assemblky after the new one arrives, but maybe establishment of a more regular schedule for lubrication of the inner core based on hours of carving is needed.

If my palm touch does find the flex shaft warmer than normal then I will get out my $10 thermometer to check the actual temp. My "normal" range seems to be low 80s to low 90s. If I see it getting above the 95 range then I monitor it through out the rest of the carve. Up over 100 then it is a sign to clean and relube it. I have not lubed it for over a year now.

Lubing the shaft on a "set schedule" could lead to over lubing and getting the top hat loaded with the run off...

[roughcut]

My flex shaft was starting to over heat and what I found was a burr on the end that fits into the motor it was making my cable too long for the sheath
I sanded the end and it is running cool now...

[ktjwilliams]

It's funny how my comments on this thread concerning my flex cable with less then 20 hrs out it blowing apart was removed in less then 15 minutes !!!! If you can't put up the truth to share !!!!!!! Guess only favorable comments are permitted....

[lynnfrwd]

No. It was your language that got your post deleted. Abbreviating it doesn't make it any less inappropriate.


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[ktjwilliams]

Oh and CW should send me a new one FREE of charge... Less then 20 hrs on it, and the internal spring comes out in 4 pieces .... That to me is an obvious problem with that Flex Shaft ....

[bergerud]

I think the magic number is 10 hours (or until you swear!). Any idea why the "silencing spring" would break up like that? Are there burrs on the flex? Did the spring wear through or just break?

[ktjwilliams]

Hey Dan ,,, no idea y it fell apart. Less then 20 hrs on it. I noticed the shaft getting hot during a carve and stopped the machine. Took the flex off for inspection. That's when the spring came out in 4 pieces.

[lynnfrwd]

I realize people get upset when something goes awry. I did not remove the post because he was upset about the flexshaft or angry at LHR. I only deleted the posts with inappropriate language.

We have rules and they need to be followed. Abbreviating curse words is the same as saying them in my book and trying to tell me you meant something else just to post them again isn't going to fly.

We will see him back next week after a short time out.

[Digitalwoodshop]

With the Flex Shaft there are so many variables that can trip you up... Since 2007 I have had one burnt up flex and it was totally MY fault as I have posted many times before. I was doing maintenance on the machine out on the deck in the sun. I had the whole flex out and Cut Motor too blowing the dust out. It was HOT from the Sun and SOFT... I whipped it off the table and accidentally kinked the Spring as it was so soft. It burned up during the first carve.... The 2nd was a Snapped flex right in the middle, twisted clean off..... Was cutting some DEEP V90 BOLD and the wood was hard pine. I had failed to clean the V90 bit after cutting the back.... IT had a built up sawdust and pitch on the bit... had I cleaned it, the flex may have not broken.... down time.... 2 Min... Had a SPARE....

In my eyes, the Flex is like a Car Tire on a New CAR... Got a Flat at 20 hours of operation... Blame FORD..... Well, not in my book... Jumping up and down posting with "Excitement" of how FORD was WRONG and I should get a new TIRE... Well, we are all Adults here... Tires and the CW FLEX are just not covered under the Warranty.... TOO many "Variables"...

"Petting the Flex at EVERY Bit Change to check for HEAT" will be a good habit to learn from the beginning as is watching the "Bit Touch EVERY TIME"....


THOUSANDS of Hours of trouble free Carving by following a few easy habits...

AL

[aokweld101]

I'm good with my flex shaft I have been doing the touch test with both machines since I had them and in keeping them lubed more than whats required, the flex shaft is the hardest working part on the machine, and I don't want to buy a new one just because I didn't want to take time out to clean it. In fact its time to clean the machine and change the brushes....oh, I have 600 hrs. on one machine and 247 hrs. on the other.. and had very little repair work.

[Smoken D]

Flex Shaft also was my biggest problem that I probably caused. When I got some of that Gunk spray with molly, soaked the core in it over night, let it dry, I have not had a problem since. The shaft has been running cool ever since and kinda scares me. Probably a few hundred hours on that core now and not a hick-up. Every machine seems to have its own personality and a certain fix to make it run like a champ. Al knows and he knows the secrets to make it run.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Like I learned early be Gentle with the Flex... I inadvertently caused the problem that burned up the shaft. All it takes is whipping it around when doing maintenance and even shipping it with the flex attached to the cut motor... that is a big no no in my book.... And then we have LUCK... For the most part... If we get a failure... We move on and learn from it...

Like knocking over a beer glass and spilling it... We don't go after the Beer Maker, Glass Maker, Bar... We buy another and move on. :lol:

It's been a long time since someone got banned.... But sometimes we need a time out... The digital version of counting to 10 before we post..

AL

[ktjwilliams]

Al, You try to make it sound like folks don't know what their doin,,, and are some how responsible for the problems .... Guess you never heard the word DEFECTIVE PART ( or made in China) !!! And I'm sure if your new car tire blew out as fast as you said, without you running over a nail or something, you'd be back at the dealer in a heart beat !!!!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sorry to hear of your Flex Problems. Good to see you back.

Good Luck with the replacement.

AL

[lynnfrwd]

Welcome back Kevin.


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[Proctorw]

My machine is at 75 hours. According to the "Maintenance Schedule", I should lube the flex shaft. It is running cool to the touch. One comment that was made during the conference that sometimes the Cutting head component (Don't remember what the correct term is) has issues because folks are lubing the flex shaft too much. I bought the lube at the conference and was going to go ahead and take care of the maintenance. Any thoughts? Do I wait until it runs warm or go ahead and lube it and just make sure I wipe up the excess?

Thanks,

Wayne

[lawrence]

I wait until mine warms to lube...(out of laziness more than anything really) It's usually around 100 hours

Lawrence

[liquidguitars]

I use my ears, If the shaft makes a rattle it time to clean, I remove the shaft and core then run a little solvent down the two. once clean I lube it, the other day I notice the spring was bent and compressed in a bow tie shape, I removed the spring and cut out the bad part and was back to work. BTW I have thousand of hrs and never melted one.

[gapdev]

then run a little solvent down the two

Can I ask what solvent you use to clean with? What do you use to get the solvent out of the shaft?

I'm getting ready to lube mine and want to remove any gunk that might be caked on.

Kenny

[liquidguitars]

Turpentine or mineral sprits works well make sure its dry then lube. you could also use WD40...

[Smoken D]

One thing I did was take the shaft completely off with the core/spring out and used a rifle cleaning rod tipped with a dry rag and ran it through the shaft. Boy the junk that came out!

[Ilonaco]

It will also heat up when the bearings start to go in the carriage because it has to work so hard.

[ktjwilliams]

That is true about the bearings causing heat up, but also when that is the case the truck itself usually heats up too ... I always hand check for heat on flex when carving and stop if I think it may be to warm ... Once stopped I will feel the truck also for heat... The bearings will usually get a little noisy too when they start to go...

[ktjwilliams]

Thx for the welcome back Al.... And thx for all your helpful post on the forum... I think I may have gotten a little short with your post concerning my flex shaft, for that I apoligize .... :grin: Keep up the good work...

Kevin

[diverdill]

hi, newby. Used machine. My machine flex cable is hot to the touch, not warm hot. I stopped. Can i use my foredom lube on this and lube cable, from what i am seeing i need to do this, i have no idea how many hours it has, guy claimed really low but.... thanks sue

[Digitalwoodshop]

Sue,

Using the wrong lube will possibly cause the flex to burn up. Honestly the best bet is to buy the correct lube from LHR. The formula changed in the Chain Lube with Molly that has been recommended in the past.

A new flex will run you about $100.00 with shipping.

AL

[SteveNelson46]

Sue,

You can check the "cut motor time" and the "total on time" by following these steps:
1. Be sure you have a memory card in the machine and turn it on.
2. Press 0 and then press 3. This will give you the "total cut motor time".
3. Press the down arrow key. This will give you the "total on time".

I hope this helps.

[diverdill]

thanks Steve and Al, 37 hours cut time and 69 on time. What is LHR? I was going to buy oil on carvewright site. My husband is rolling his eyes at me, and has that i told you so look on his face. I just walked into a job and I need this machine up and going. I need to carve an Old English style Name for a Ship. My Basic 1.8 does not have anything that is fancy enough. Also since A machine i checked the A190 (i think) has not been changed out , so I need that and then I can change the quick release chuck to the new model? But still have to buy new bits? AHHHHH!!! I am praying the local Sears has the oil. Sue

[henry1]

thanks Steve and Al, 37 hours cut time and 69 on time. What is LHR? I was going to buy oil on carvewright site. My husband is rolling his eyes at me, and has that i told you so look on his face. I just walked into a job and I need this machine up and going. I need to carve an Old English style Name for a Ship. My Basic 1.8 does not have anything that is fancy enough. Also since A machine i checked the A190 (i think) has not been changed out , so I need that and then I can change the quick release chuck to the new model? But still have to buy new bits? AHHHHH!!! I am praying the local Sears has the oil. Sue
here is what I use works great also use a copper pipe bend it like a pig tail long enough for the cable and big enough for the cable ,,spray inside the pipe and run back an fourth and take excess of

[dbfletcher]

here is what I use works great also use a copper pipe bend it like a pig tail long enough for the cable and big enough for the cable ,,spray inside the pipe and run back an fourth and take excess of

I think LHR has stated a few times in the past to NOT USE Lithium grease on the flex. Lithium grease wasnt designed for the high rpms of the flex shaft. While it is great that it has been working for you, I would hesitate in recommending it to a new user. Be safe.. stick with what LHR recommends.

[henry1]

I think LHR has stated a few times in the past to NOT USE Lithium grease on the flex. Lithium grease wasnt designed for the high rpms of the flex shaft. While it is great that it has been working for you, I would hesitate in recommending it to a new user. Be safe.. stick with what LHR recommends.
Well LHR did suggest to use this a while back when here in Canada, the rep that was running it at one time , he sold me a couple case of that Lithium ,, LHR change their mine again ???????????

[dbfletcher]

I need to carve an Old English style Name for a Ship. My Basic 1.8 does not have anything that is fancy enough.

Remember you can use any font that is loaded on your computer with your carvewright. If you are going to do centerline, I believe they have to be TrueType fonts (TTF), but that is typically what you will find online anyways. There was a recent posting the listed several sources for free downloadable TTF's. I"ll find the post an add a reference here. Just find one you like, download, install, open Designer again and your new font should be available.

Edit: Here is the post I was referring to: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?23496-Fonts-Downloads&p=206577#post206577

[Bigtyme]

I believe that Designer needs to be closed when loading new fonts on your computer. Once you load them and then open Designer, they will be present in Designer. If designer is open while downloading new fonts, they won't show up until Designer is closed and re-opened....

[lynnfrwd]

Well LHR did suggest to use this a while back when here in Canada, the rep that was running it at one time , he sold me a couple case of that Lithium ,, LHR change their mine again ???????????

Henry:

LHR has never been in Canada. We did have a CarveWright distributor there, but not since 2010. Unfortunately, the information you say he gave you is not correct. White Lithium has been used on the vertical posts, but should not be used on the Flexshaft. Since we are talking about it, probably a good time to restate Liquid Wrench changed their formula on their Chain Lube and is no longer effective.

[bergerud]

The Liquid Wench Industrial Chain Lube with Moly (L716) still seems to be available in Canada. Old stock or not yet converted, I do not know. Go find the L716 or L716C Henry. Try Lordco or Canadian Tire.

[diverdill]

Thanks again,will check out fonts.

[henry1]

The Liquid Wench Industrial Chain Lube with Moly (L716) still seems to be available in Canada. Old stock or not yet converted, I do not know. Go find the L716 or L716C Henry. Try Lordco or Canadian Tire.
My mistake wrong picture this what I am using

[bergerud]

That is the stuff!!

[Smoken D]

I was at the "BIG LOTS" store a month ago and saw that they still have the old Liquid Wrench with moly for $2.50 a can. I have several and did not get any more.

[peep]

OK, just finished a 22hr carve. Checked and everything is good, carve was fine, , but most of the plastic is off the flexshaft ;(
Well I have 2 spare so I will be fine. Only thing is:
How do you remove the flexshaft from the cut motor? Do you have to remove the cut motor or is it just the small screw where it joins?

[fwharris]

Well that does suck! To remove the flex shaft, after removing the top cover, loosen/remove the small screw on the cut motor then rotate the flex shaft so the keyed will come out.

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Service_instructions/CarveWright_service_replace_flexshaft_sheath.pdf

[caklmk]

I had no problem finding the liquid wrench chain lube with moly at the local Blaine Farm and Fleet Store. It may be possible to purchase it on line.

[peep]

Done and carving. thanks

[gregsolano]

Keep in mind that liquid wrench changed the formula on the chain lube with moly and it is no longer recommended for use with the flex shaft. You would have to find the old formula which is really really hard or go with something else. LHR sells a lube for the flex shaft or you can use crane cam lube. Here is a pic of the can with the old formula.
65669

[ekimnamyr]

Can anyone tell me if the spring in the flex shaft is able to be purchased seperately or does a whole flex shaft with cable need to be purchased? Cannot find it in my search of the parts online. Thanks

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have had them fall out and I stomped them to death before I realized it.. Last I knew it was a no...

I will let LHR chime in... But I believe some have run the flex without the spring.... but due to the possible fire hazard... I won't go on record asying it is OK....

AL

[bergerud]

Can anyone tell me if the spring in the flex shaft is able to be purchased seperately or does a whole flex shaft with cable need to be purchased? Cannot find it in my search of the parts online. Thanks

I remember them saying that the spring was no longer available itself. Something like: it was too hard to ship without getting damaged.

[ekimnamyr]

Thanks for the info, Guess I will get hold of LHR, While I am here can some one shed a little light on an issue that has happenednon my last two carves, When I flip the piece over and start the top side carve it gives me a message that board is wrong size? With two choices to make 1 reload 2 continue After taking the board out twice and blowing the machine out and the sensors doing a good cleaning, I could not get past the stage where it kept telling me wrong size,, How could it be wrong all i did was flip it? Anyway I selected continue and all went well with the carving, Just wondered if it is a early warning sign to a malfunction?? Thank in advance I know help is on the way:D..

[bergerud]

The wrong size message just means the machine measured the board front to be a little different size than the back. This can happen, for example, if the edges of the board are not square. Sometimes it can happen just because the board sensor is a bit inconsistent. It is a little worrisome if you want a perfect line up but I do not think it is a real problem.

[ktjwilliams]

I've been running my machine for some time now without a spring in the flex .... Just sayin ... One less part to worry about ...

[ekimnamyr]

Thanks Bergerud.. Takes the mystery out of that one.
The wrong size message just means the machine measured the board front to be a little different size than the back. This can happen, for example, if the edges of the board are not square. Sometimes it can happen just because the board sensor is a bit inconsistent. It is a little worrisome if you want a perfect line up but I do not think it is a real problem.

[CarverJerry]

In reference to Liquid Wrench changing their lube, I found a can of chain and rope lube but it says it has synthic moly, does anyone know if this will work?

[bergerud]

No. It is the synthetic stuff that was no good. The original had organic moly. (The can says "Improved formula" and that is bad.)

[robboz4]

I had my relatively new flex shaft get hot and separate from the cut motor coupling. I asked LHR if this was a defect but they said not. However, the sheath of the flex shaft was not cut straight and the amour wiring was a sticking out. I trimmed it and used some epoxy and reassembled it. I did two carves successfully, although the were simple 1/8" channels out of plywood. The shaft gets warm but not as hot as it did on the meltdown. When I tried a new carve of a more complicated design, I'm getting all sorts of random stall errors. I sometimes have to power cycle the machine to get it back to working. I haven't had a good chance to talk to support yet. They recommended calling over my email request. I plan on doing a quick maintenance before the call. Just haven't got to it yet. But a question for you guys: Do you think my flex shaft repair may be the problem?

Merry Christmas!


Dave

[rmock]

I just had a brand new flex shaft do the same thing about 2 weeks ago. It had maybe 8 hrs on it. I replaced the old one because the inner core actually snapped in the middle but the casing was still good. I put the new core in the old casing and have been running for two weeks without any issues. Makes me wonder if there was a problem with some flex shaft casings that were sent out.

[bergerud]

I had my relatively new flex shaft get hot and separate from the cut motor coupling. I asked LHR if this was a defect but they said not. However, the sheath of the flex shaft was not cut straight and the amour wiring was a sticking out. I trimmed it and used some epoxy and reassembled it. I did two carves successfully, although the were simple 1/8" channels out of plywood. The shaft gets warm but not as hot as it did on the meltdown. When I tried a new carve of a more complicated design, I'm getting all sorts of random stall errors. I sometimes have to power cycle the machine to get it back to working. I haven't had a good chance to talk to support yet. They recommended calling over my email request. I plan on doing a quick maintenance before the call. Just haven't got to it yet. But a question for you guys: Do you think my flex shaft repair may be the problem?

Merry Christmas!


Dave

I do not think the random stall errors are to do with your flex repair. More likely due to something that got changed during the repair. Did you abuse the flat ribbon wire that connects to the carriage? Different random errors occur when that ribbon gets damaged. Is the top of the flex clearing the top cover of the machine?

[robboz4]

I replaced the ribbon cable a while back along with a new Z chuck. The new one looks fine, but I'll double check it when I do the maintenance checks.

Thanks

[robboz4]

I suggested that to LHR support when I saw the state of the flex shaft. It looked like a badly cut sheath and very little glue on the holder. Need more QA perhaps? Or something changed in the manufacturing process. I've seen things like this happen in my previous jobs. A small insignificant change is made without really doing a full analysis and all of a sudden you have 1000+ defective parts out and need a recall. But if there is only two of us, it just might be a hiccup :-)

Thanks
Dave

[gapdev]

But if there is only two of us

I think if you took a poll of ALL users, not just the ones that read these Forums, you would find that quite a few of us have had this happen.

I've had a brand new machine blow a Flex Shaft on its first use and I've had brand new Flex Shafts blow up. I'm not happy about the Zero Day warranty on these (not even sure if that is legal), but that's the way it is and nothing I can do to change it, so I have a stock of Flex Shafts to draw from when needed.

Also, I always clean and lube brand new shafts. I even clean the sheaths out with a Rifle Cleaner and you wouldn't believe the crud that comes out of new sheaths.

Kenny

[CarverJerry]

Thanks Bergerud, thought I'd be safe rather than sorry.