STL bits?

[interloper]

Sorry, I'm more than sure this has been asked. I just purchased the STL importer. And just when I thought I could now do it all, it seems that anything imported will be saved as a pattern and therefor cut strictly with the carving bit? Straight bits can't be used?? Tell me it isn't so :X

[lawrence]

I'm not sure why you would want to use straight bits? STL is the standard file type for 3d models which are carved using raster bits on the Carvewright.

There are faster and more efficient means of doing pockets/etc with straight bits and if that is what you are trying to accomplish then please let us know and we can show you how to do so.

V/r
Lawrence

[interloper]

Well, I was wanting to make some gears. I guess I'll just have to work with the seven degree taper ?
Also, slightly off topic: when you slice 3d objects are you able to carve both sides by turning each board over?
Thanks for the help. Getting STL import makes things seem much more limitless

[lawrence]

for gears you don't want to use the STL importer, you want to use the DXF importer... DXF files are vector files.

Programs such as "gear generator" even export DXF files... they then become dead easy to import and cut with straight bits as
vectors instead of raster files.

Like this..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ll5wveQiXA

Lawrence

[lawrence]

when you slice 3d objects are you able to carve both sides by turning each board over?
Thanks for the help. Getting STL import makes things seem much more limitless

Yes, by "slicing" the piece in half and then placing each half onto its side of the board....

Lawrence

[interloper]

Funny I was just watching a youtube from Matthias when I opened your response email (May have to try his router tilt table)
Ugh.. Guess I need to buy the DXF now too. No way around that I suppose? Hopefully that ones not $200. This set of gears is getting expensive -welcome to woodshop right?
Well, I can say I am learning about the different formats I suppose.. I have solid works but haven't learned how to use it yet. I think I can do gears on it.
I have 10 hours on my carvewright and owned it since it's release. Like 7 years? Don't hit me.

Anyone looking to buy STL import? lol. I thought I was done with software. This is pushing my rock chuck further back.
Nice vid. Thanks Lawrence. Looks like I have no choice

[interloper]

Yes, by "slicing" the piece in half and then placing each half onto its side of the board....

Lawrence
I thought so, but now confirmed. Thank you

[lawrence]

you have a choice if you just need a couple... just post the gear files and someone here (like me) can turn the DXF files into vectors for you which you can then carve out with the straight bits... it's a work around, but a workable one for now if you'd like.

And yes... the DXF importer is the same cost as the STL importer the last time I checked... but it's worth it!

One more thing... the STL importer license can't be transferred once you've used it... (sorry...) but it's a GREAT piece of kit

Lawrence

[fwharris]

Well, I was wanting to make some gears. I guess I'll just have to work with the seven degree taper ?
Also, slightly off topic: when you slice 3d objects are you able to carve both sides by turning each board over?
Thanks for the help. Getting STL import makes things seem much more limitless

Just in case you have not seen the tutorials... http://www.carvewright.com/support-page/getting-started/tutorials/software-tutorials/

[626Pilot]

This offends me. I spent $200 to buy the STL importer so that I could cut wood from designs I made in Sketchup. Like the original poster, my design needs a straight bit and only a straight bit. The thought of having to abandon the STL importer and spend another $200 for the DXF importer makes me feel left out in the cold.

Is there some way to get Designer to trace around the edges of the .stl file? I don't want to pay CW another $200 when the $200 I already paid them was an outrage.

[liquidguitars]

Yes you can trace it after the fact. import the STL and choose "outline" select the mill bit assign it to the paths.

[bergerud]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry you bought the wrong software for what you want to do. If you do not want to buy the DXF importer there is an option others have used. Search ai2mpc.

[aokweld101]

I have the dxf program and haven't used it yet. its been a little more than a year haven't had something to use it for I have all the programs except the 2.004 that's is next.. Santa didn't have it in his sled this year guess I'll have to get it on my own....

[626Pilot]

Thanks for the help, all of you. I think I can get it figured out now.

(I still think CW made a bad design decision)

[interloper]

I was still subscribed to this.
Back when I bought the wrong software, I was told somewhere to wait for a software sale during the month of September? Nothing. Then I emailed someone, and they told me October. I then waited for November.
Unfortunately, I've since abandoned my projects (paid for plans), using the CW, the above wrongly purchased software -pretty much my whole garage since.
You know how sensitive project workers can be, particularly when thrown off-guard. This thread might have been my last correspondence since.

I'm sure I'll return one day... After a nice, long regimen of Zoloft

I'm not blaming anyone but myself... It happens.

Edited: Some wording

[fwharris]

To make sure you get the latest sales updates sign up for the newsletter (bottom right side of this page)
http://www.carvewright.com/support-page/contact-us/

Also when on the CarveWright site look for the "special offers"...

[626Pilot]

I'm not blaming anyone but myself... It happens.
The pricing structure is set up to be tolerable for business, but to a hobbyist or someone who hasn't yet been able to make any revenue with their machine it can seem extortionate. CW could do a lot for customer goodwill by shipping the machine with the new Designer instead of making you pay $200 for that, and for charging a less crazy price to unlock features. ($200 per file format you want to import? What the...)

[lynnfrwd]

The pricing structure is set up to be tolerable for business, but to a hobbyist or someone who hasn't yet been able to make any revenue with their machine it can seem extortionate. CW could do a lot for customer goodwill by shipping the machine with the new Designer instead of making you pay $200 for that, and for charging a less crazy price to unlock features. ($200 per file format you want to import? What the...)

The pricing structure is set up, so that you can buy only what you need rather than forcing customers to buy the whole kit and caboodle, that they may never need or use. It allows for you to grow your system as your skills increase, as your projects demand and/or as your pocket book allows. Sales are almost monthly, so knowledgeable customer take advantage of these.

As for a per file format, the basic Designer allow .jpg, bitmap, .png, .mng, .gif & .xpm file formats at no additional costs. It is only STL & DXF that are an additional cost.

If you are trying to make revenue with your machine, then you are more than just a hobbyist...small business maybe. There are plenty of projects that can be done to generate revenue with just the basic software.

Everyone else has to pay $200 for Designer 2.0, as well, whether it is a direct purchase or part of a package deal, the price reflects the $200.

[interloper]

The pricing structure is set up to be tolerable for business, but to a hobbyist or someone who hasn't yet been able to make any revenue with their machine it can seem extortionate. CW could do a lot for customer goodwill by shipping the machine with the new Designer instead of making you pay $200 for that, and for charging a less crazy price to unlock features. ($200 per file format you want to import? What the...)


I guess to extend what you said^ the option to transfer or swap licenses for the intended software version would help (give a day at least??). That part I'll accept fault, as most people don't allow software returns anyway. But why not transfer?? They have licensing customer database down pretty good don't they? As for the cost, yes, it might be nice for someone who very rarely uses the machine to have a pay per-use function, or similar -at the very least?

Then again, it seems that if these were 30 bucks each, many would simply buy most, if not all versions. With that, the software designers would have the community and the feedback for their work. There are more people out there like me that would prefer to have full capabilities from the start (buying all software) and not have to deal with bumps in the road later. And with that, some software may never actually see any use. If prices aren't unreasonable, why not? Buying everything is fine for making me feel prepared for whatever it is I'm thinking of doing (if anything at all). Heck, allow me one project a month, but don't limit the software. That should very well separate the hobbyist from the business doer.

Nevertheless, by the time you invest in all these software version costs, you could realize that a G-code compatible machine can be had. With that de facto, so much existing and established software, designs, templates, etc. are readily available in the community. Some of which I probably already own and are compatible for all formats.
Those projects that were going to take me a year to finish anyway are being bumped further. I have to contemplate this. I've closed up my garage for 6 months as it is. I don't see spending another 200 bucks (totaling 400) to make a few gears for fun fun anymore. I simply won't get that much use out of it.

[interloper]

rather than forcing customers to buy the whole kit and caboodle, that they may never need or use. It allows for you to grow your system as your skills increase, as your projects demand and/or as your pocket book allows. Sales are almost monthly, so knowledgeable customer take advantage of these.

That's just the thing though. The different software suites aren't necessarily a linear learning path. Many are basically just different functions that people come across to need from time to time (in my situation anyway). This is a hobby machine for me, so in this case my pocket book allows what fun I'm going to get out of it. If I don't have the functionality to complete a simple task and these policies are stretched this much, there's not much else to contemplate. It's simply not worth it. It's unfortunate this is about the smallest hobby-sized CNC in the market, but the software has a highly business-oriented campaign going for it.

As for the sales, I checked daily for 3 months and eventually faded that behavior out

Edit: Suggestion if I may. Just C&P from above post:

As for the cost, yes, it might be nice for someone who very rarely uses the machine to have a pay per-use function, or similar -at the very least?

Heck, allow me one project a month, but don't limit the software. That should very well separate the hobbyist from the business doer

[626Pilot]

I guess to extend what you said^ the option to transfer or swap licenses for the intended software version would help (give a day at least??). That part I'll accept fault, as most people don't allow software returns anyway. But why not transfer?? They have licensing customer database down pretty good don't they? As for the cost, yes, it might be nice for someone who very rarely uses the machine to have a pay per-use function, or similar -at the very least?
Good example of CW's business ethics: if you sell the machine you can't sell the software, the new owner has to buy it. If you no longer have the machine, it isn't much use. They want to extract as much money out of each customer as possible, again with little regard for how they are perceived as a result of this practice.


Nevertheless, by the time you invest in all these software version costs, you could realize that a G-code compatible machine can be had.
The only reason I bought this instead of something else was the tractor feed. The locked-down software, G-code incompatibility, etc. make me not want to deal with this machine at all, but that one feature is why I bought it anyway. Once someone figures out how to do a kit machine with tractor feed, dollars to donuts you'll see CW either drop prices on the software or try to sue them out of existence. The CW software is pretty good for designing stuff (except for the crippleware aspect) but plenty of people are grinding out clocks and lithophanes on CNC routers with LinuxCNC.

[626Pilot]

I figured out a way to do it without buying the DXF importer.

This is the table I'm working on. The piece I need to figure out is the top apron rail, which has some grooves in it:
66776

I exported the piece as a .stl file and imported it into Designer. I then used the Outline Pattern(s) option as suggested by liquidguitars. It didn't outline the grooves, but it did outline the footprint, so the piece could be cut out properly. After I had the outline, I deleted the imported .stl from the board and told the outline which bit and depth to use.

This leaves the details on the face. I tried a number of things, unsure if any would work, but there was one thing that did, and that was to isolate just the surface features (the grooves) from the rest of the board. You can see them here:

66777

I had to close the top surfaces of the grooves, turning them into solid objects, so that the .stl would be valid. That's why they don't appear to be recessed as they are above. (In other words, I made a "negative" of the grooves.)

I then exported that as a .stl and imported it into Designer. Running Outline Pattern(s) worked on the newer .stl because it looks for outside edges, and the grooves matched what it was looking for. The caveat would be that if I wanted to cut things with inside edges (like gears) I would have to create "negatives" of each successive space to be cut. So, if I had a gear with a central hub and some spokes and the outside ring with the teeth (see screenshot from Lawrence's post), I would have to make a negative of the area around the outside of the gear up to and including the teeth, and then another negative containing all the "pie slices" created by the spokes. The principle is to chop up the work so that the software never has to find more than one set of outside edges for each object. You can have one or a dozen objects, but it will not find any "nested" edges.

At that point I could tell it what bit and depth to use and it would cut around the grooves. I'm not sure how to get it to mill out the centers of the grooves with the straight bit so I just let it carve them with the V-bit. The objective was to avoid letting it carve around the whole piece since the edges need to be square, so it worked. However, if anyone knows how to get it to mill out all the stuff in the grooves without having to switch to the V-bit, it would be appreciated. I don't mind, but it takes exponentially longer to carve than it does to cut.

I'm also having a registration problem. The stock is 1" thick and obviously has to be cut from both sides, but I've cut it twice so far and both times the front is up to 1/3" off from the back in both x and y dimensions. I think I need to rig up some kind of infeed/outfeed supports, but if there is some other trick to making it work I'm all ears.

[blhutchens]

You should be able to outline the inside cut outs and cut path.
Use tape on the top and bottom of the piece to help the tracking roller grab.
Also center and make sure it is at 0,0 on both sides
Supports are a must I too have had trouble with this, usually on longer pieces with double cut outs
I cut out an entire clock several times using the method you described before purchasing DFX importer. It works but its very time consuming.

[626Pilot]

I discovered that there are some inaccuracies that have to be fixed by hand during the STL import process. The board is 49.5" x 5", but after import it shows as 49.523" x 5.023". The same exact STL dragged to the back of the board measures the same. When I change the length to 49.5, it changes the width to 5.021. I guess 21 thou is an okay margin for error, but if I was cutting gears it would really bother me!

Thanks for the advice about the tape. I will definitely try that next time. I guess I have to go build some outfeed supports now.

[fwharris]

When trying to resize click on the red padlock so you can size the width and length independently.

[626Pilot]

On the row where the Size boxes are, the controls are Pierced, Depth, Inset, Angle, Size, and [DEMO] Conform. I don't see a padlock. Is this something I have to pay another $200 for?

I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to get it to cut rather than carve the grooves. I think the only solution is to draw connected line segments back and forth by hand. There is an Extrude tool but it's demo only and doesn't seem to actually do anything. Extruding is precisely what I need. :(

[bergerud]

The padlock is a new feature in 2.0. I believe the reason your patterns are increasing in size is due to a feature which "floors" the edge of your pattern. It has not to do with the STL importer. A perimeter of pixels is added to the pattern to make the edge floor to the pattern depth. If you have the pattern editor, you can trim it edge and get back the original pattern. If you have 2.0, you can turn it off.

Show us what you want and we can probably make it for you.

[fwharris]

On the row where the Size boxes are, the controls are Pierced, Depth, Inset, Angle, Size, and [DEMO] Conform. I don't see a padlock. Is this something I have to pay another $200 for?

I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to get it to cut rather than carve the grooves. I think the only solution is to draw connected line segments back and forth by hand. There is an Extrude tool but it's demo only and doesn't seem to actually do anything. Extruding is precisely what I need. :(

Well I tried! Like Dan said, post what your trying to do and we can maybe help set it up for you..

[626Pilot]

Well, if you take a look at the first screenshot uploaded you can see an apron rail with some grooves recessed into the face. To carve these with the V-bit makes the project take six hours. With the straight bit it's more like an hour and ten minutes! Once I had the outlines of the grooves, I cut around them with the 1/8" bit. That cut out the profile of the grooves but not the centers. I then drew some line segments across the grooves, again with the 1/8" straight bit, so that it would mill out the centers by going back and forth from top to bottom. That's the pattern I've seen CNC machines use to remove material before (or to deposit it, as with 3D printers.) The lines are spaced .1" apart so each time the cutting bit passes it removes about half of its width of material.

Looks like this:
>----->----->----->----->-----v
v-----<-----<-----<-----<-----<
>----->----->----->----->-----v
<-----<-----<-----<-----<-----<

BTW thanks again for the help. I like this community.