Clean Y rails

[bil381]

My carvewright gets almost done with a carving and then it just tries carving a line through the board that is not part of the carving. It stops and then tells me to clean the Y rail after my carving is ruined. I have called customer support and they had me replace the Y motor but that did nothing. I am about ready to choke my carvewright out. Has anybody ran into this problem and know how to fix it?

[bergerud]

You need to post the mpc. There are many reasons for such behavior. If a new y motor did not fix it, it could still be anything from bad mpc to a dull bit to a loose y belt to ??

[Digitalwoodshop]

The line through the carving is key here... That tells me that the Z head did not RAISE.... And the Result Y Error was because the machine felt the resistance to movement in the Y as the Z head was down cutting when it should NOT have... So we are to look at the Z...

A Bad FSC Cable can cause this as in the big flat cable that gives power to the Z and return signals from the encoder.

Is this a model "A", "B", or "C"? The early "A" 2007 machines if you have a USED machine did this when the old 18 pin FSC Cable went bad..

The Newer 14 pin FSC Cable is a Consumable in my opinion... It can only flex so many times... So having a replacement on hand is good.

IF you did not have the Line carved because the Z did not lift, I would say Y Motor or Gearbox... But the KEY here is paying attention to the small details... The Z did not go UP....

SO more things that can cause the Z to NOT go up or Get LOST and loose Home on the way down is a DIRTY Encoder Disk in the Z Motor. OR even a bad Z Encoder.... Broken Solder Joint was common years ago... And a Clear Encoder Disk SLIPPING on the Z Shaft.... A drop of glue fixes that common failure.

Now there is the Mechanical of the Z... The Roller Rail Bearings... Usually the lower LEFT bearing catches dust that gets inside the bearing and causes it to freeze up and this can Hinder the Lifting of the head.... Sometimes the Computer does not catch that the head did not retract properly and the next down will be too deep and the return too shallow... Leaving the head too low and then be DRAGGED thought the wood... Like you Said...

A Dirty Z Belt can cause this.... And Lastly.... The 2 Screws holding the Z BELT to the back of the Z TRUCK have been known to be LOOSE on a repair part from LHR, hence the Truck slips on the Belt.

Let us know....

AL

[bil381]

62215Here is a photo. I didn't relized it had done it the first time so I cleaned the y rails and told it to continue so it did it twice.

[bil381]

I have a C series. I have had it for a year now. It has worked great until January. I replaced the Y motor and I had not used it since yesterday when I made the carving and it no workie.62216

[Digitalwoodshop]

OK... This was a TRICK QUESTION.... IGNORE my previous post... I was following the wrong info...

What "Really" happened is the board lost contact with the BRASS ROLLER and TOOK OFF in the X Direction while the Z was down in a PROPER Position but the X Direction move ERRATIC searching for the proper BRASS ROLLER or X Position.... The machine saw a resistance in the Y motion due to the board moving in the X while cutting funny lines.... Hence the clean the Y Rails error.... "in error" The Clean the Rails was the Symptom not the real error... This picture is worth a 1000 words... as to what really happened..

Most likely the board lifted while only under 1 roller.....

The Brass Roller tracks the board position and when the board looses contact the servo motor moves the board...

OR a Warped Board

OR a bad spot on the bottom board edge where the brass roller rides....

OK..... Off to Tips and Tricks to read about the 7 inch rule of wood, Using Sleds, Carrier Boards, and things that make the X go nuts like it did....

Your machine is FINE... It was likely Pilot error... Keeping the board under 2 rollers flat to the table...

So likely NO Problem with the machine.... Pilot error... The Airplane Crashed... The Masking Tape on the bottom of the board trick might have helped at the brass roller....

What was the ACTUAL board length you used? Didn't look at the mpc. Did the board come out from the roller?

AL

[bil381]

It was 22 inches long. Hickory. Thanks for the help. Is it seven inches on both sides or total?

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[bergerud]

I would like to understand what is happening here. It maybe that lostparts has the same problem. In my experiments, the machine, while carving, will not move the x belts without the bit up. The bit always goes up before tracking to agree with the brass roller. It looks to me like the board slid on the belts as it was being driven by the wandering bit.

bil381: If you stay under the rollers as Al suggests, I doubt it would happen. I would check the head pressure. The board should not slip so easily even under only one roller.

[chief2007]

It was 22 inches long. Hickory. Thanks for the help. Is it seven inches on both sides or total?

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

3.5 inches on each end, Total of 7 extra inches. So if your project calls for a 24 inch board. Keep the project 24 inches and use a 31 inch board to stay under the rollers.

[CarverJerry]

As Al said, using a sled, it also saves you costly material as the sled will have the built in 7", I make mine 4" on each end just to be on the safe side. There are many threads here on how to make a sled or jig (same thing).

[thorssoli]

I've been having this exact problem. In my case, I'm carving some cast acrylic sheet and after about 20 minutes, the machine carves a straight line that has no place in the design, then tells me to clean the Y rails. So I pull everything apart, blow it all out, vacuum everything, and re-assemble it to find the same behavior.

So far I've replaced all of the bearings on the Y-axis, replaced the Y motor, replaced the ribbon cable, and scoured every bit of the machine picking out dust and debris.

The Z motor is fairly new. Tomorrow I'll take a look at the roller bearings on the Z-axis, but they seem to move pretty smoothly when I push the truck up and down by hand. I suppose I'll open up the housing on the back end of the Z-motor and put a drop of glue on the encoder disc for good measure.

Is there anything else I should check? The machine has very high mileage (somewhere in excess of 1,000 hours cut time) and by now I've replaced almost every component at least twice. If it's not the Z-axis bearings or a bad encoder, I'm stumped.

Suggestions?


The line through the carving is key here... That tells me that the Z head did not RAISE.... And the Result Y Error was because the machine felt the resistance to movement in the Y as the Z head was down cutting when it should NOT have... So we are to look at the Z...

A Bad FSC Cable can cause this as in the big flat cable that gives power to the Z and return signals from the encoder.

Is this a model "A", "B", or "C"? The early "A" 2007 machines if you have a USED machine did this when the old 18 pin FSC Cable went bad..

The Newer 14 pin FSC Cable is a Consumable in my opinion... It can only flex so many times... So having a replacement on hand is good.

IF you did not have the Line carved because the Z did not lift, I would say Y Motor or Gearbox... But the KEY here is paying attention to the small details... The Z did not go UP....

SO more things that can cause the Z to NOT go up or Get LOST and loose Home on the way down is a DIRTY Encoder Disk in the Z Motor. OR even a bad Z Encoder.... Broken Solder Joint was common years ago... And a Clear Encoder Disk SLIPPING on the Z Shaft.... A drop of glue fixes that common failure.

Now there is the Mechanical of the Z... The Roller Rail Bearings... Usually the lower LEFT bearing catches dust that gets inside the bearing and causes it to freeze up and this can Hinder the Lifting of the head.... Sometimes the Computer does not catch that the head did not retract properly and the next down will be too deep and the return too shallow... Leaving the head too low and then be DRAGGED thought the wood... Like you Said...

A Dirty Z Belt can cause this.... And Lastly.... The 2 Screws holding the Z BELT to the back of the Z TRUCK have been known to be LOOSE on a repair part from LHR, hence the Truck slips on the Belt.

Let us know....

AL

[fwharris]

If you have been doing lots of carving in acrylic I would suggest you also check the Y an Z belts and pulleys for any build up of chips. Are you using any dust collection or just pausing and blowing out? With out dust collection you can not carve for very long before the chips will build up on the bearings and rails and cause the Y and or Z movements to get off track.

[bergerud]

A picture of what happened and some more information would help.

[thorssoli]

I do have a dust collection system installed. Usually I'm carving in MDF. Acrylic is rare for me. So far there's no chips in any of the moving parts each time I get the "clean Y rails" message.

[fwharris]

I do have a dust collection system installed. Usually I'm carving in MDF. Acrylic is rare for me. So far there's no chips in any of the moving parts each time I get the "clean Y rails" message.

How many hours on the carving bit?

[thorssoli]

The bit's fairly new. Less than 30 hours anyway.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I believe FW hit the nail right on the head.... Bits.....

You are asking the machine to do something that is was NOT designed to do.... Carve Acrylic.... Acrylic is harder than wood and the FEED RATE of the bit is designed for WOOD... when you cut acrylic the plastic is harder than wood and the machine does not care and will try to bull through it... The machine is getting position feedback telling it that the Y is LAGGING in position from where it wants to be... So the "Default" message is "Dirty Rails"... Like a Child... "I don't feel good".... Very Generic....


It is going to be expensive... BUT every Acrylic Project should be run with a New or close to new BIT... 30 hours is too old... The "Edge" is rounded over... You need the SHARP Edge to keep up with the feed rate.... And the machine is failing at a point where the carving is overwhelming the ability of the bit to cut FAST ENOUGH....


And the 2 little Y Gear Box Bearings should be replaced every 100 hours if you are doing Acrylic... 685ZZ x2

AL

[thorssoli]

Problem solved. After all of the time wasted on troubleshooting, it looks like it was just a (slightly) dull bit after all.

Here's a picture of the failed carving:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/9786909866_83ae3b6f53_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8050182@N06/9786909866/)

The vertical lines outside the lettering (along the machine's Y-axis) happened just before the "clean Y rails" message each time. I installed a brand new bit and it came out perfectly:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3726/9786689261_da115bae13_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8050182@N06/9786689261/)

In the end, these pieces will be framed and edge-lit with LEDs to make interior signage for the local hobby store like so:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5346/9444944838_f5c2af75c4_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8050182@N06/9444944838/)

Thank you all for your help.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Impressive !!!!

Good Job !!!

AL

[fwharris]

Thanks for the update! Great lighting concept, you should share your technique as I get others might jump on the band wagon..

[First Sergeant]

I've ran two projects where I ran into a "clear Y rail" error. I cleared the rail and put WB 40 on it. I don't know what else I should try. I have pictures on here what my project looked like. 76452

[bergerud]

Here is my take on it. The board did not stay under the rollers (evidenced by the depth change at 3.5"), then the board slipped on the belts as the board pushed up the front roller. Then the x drive rolled to catch up the brass roller. The bit then had to plunge into fresh wood and then there was a y slip. (Your bit may also be dull.) Does that all make sense?

How is the head pressure? It may be low.

[First Sergeant]

A little bit. I should change my bit?

[bergerud]

Change the bit if it is dull. Most important is stay under the rollers and check the head pressure. Some tape on the underside of the board to increase grip on the belts may also help.

What I think happened is a cascade of failures started from the board slipping.

[First Sergeant]

Ok i will try that. Thanks

[henry1]

Sorry to intervene burgerud I am doing your jig can't wait to try it the 24 " one and save on lumber

[bergerud]

Cool Henry. (You could post in the UCB thread to keep it all in one place.)

[henry1]

Cool Henry. (You could post in the UCB thread to keep it all in one place.)

Will do next time thx