What's not wrong?

[Orator98]

OK, I'll attempt to be a good boy here. Right now I'm very torqued at the whole carvewright LHR experience. My machine is an early A model machine. I bought it in 2007 from Sears as a compucarve. I finally got tired of trying to keep it going and sent it into LHR for the full upgrade to carve tight and the heavy duty belts.

First project out of the box and I broke a bit. I was cutting 1/2 aspen with it. Snapped the bit off... dug it's little self into the shiny new belts and broke the teeth on the small X-Drive gear. So, I ordered a new X drive gear train as you can't just buy the gear anymore. Got that in... cleaned the machine thoroughly put everything back together and I had all kinds of problems... board sensor problems... tracking sensor problems... board error problems, etc... I did all the sensor checks and all was well. Compression rollers showed released when no pressure and compressed with pressure... board sensor shows 152 on a nice piece of red oak... tracking sensor shows movement when using an old straight edge wooden level and sliding it across. So, I threw another board in that was a 2X4... seems to work... the problem was that evidently you can't have anything even close to 1/2 inch (It measured .515 inches on my micrometer). So, off to the store... get a piece of .75 oak... square it up nicely... run the first project.... Check tracking rollers... checked no problems.... clear board sensor... blew low pressure air on the glass... check with the sensor check menu and it reads 153 with my red oak... doesn't seem to be any problem... press enter and I get simply "board"... then nothing... press enter... "Board problem" So, I'm at my wits end with this one. Finally, I got an error code of 03-400

This machine has 89 hours on the cut motor... 97 hours "servoing"... very low hour machine with chronic problems... Anybody need a really nice boat anchor? If there was anything such as a lemon of carvewright machines, I've got it! Unfortunately LHR is not real good at answering e-mails and I work a day job that prevents me from calling with the machine in front of me to get help.

[mtylerfl]

Hi,

Very sorry to hear about your bad experience. With all due respect, considering the reecent upgrades you have had done, it's difficult to imagine the machine is totally at fault here, but we'll try to help you determine what's going on. Would you please post the MPC here? Wanting to confirm there is nothing amiss with the design layout before starting to troubleshoot the machine and/or the pilot. :)

[fwharris]

Well maybe not a boat anchor but sure sounds like a can of worms!

Have you done a head pressure check since getting it back from CarveWright?

Make sure the FSC cable is inserted fully into the back of the Z truck. Also check to see that there are no breaks in it.

Are you upgraded to the latest designer version?

[lawrence]

We're here to help... and listen to you vent a bit too if necessary...

I describe the machine to folks as being like an airplane... it is not unreasonable for an inexperienced person to crack up an airplane the first time they use it if they have not properly prepared/understand exactly what is going on with the machine and why it acts the way it does. It's pretty reasonable to then assume that an airplane that has been through this trauma would never again be the same. This isn't necessairally the airplane's fault... but it might be... problem is no one can really know. It sounds like your machine has been through a lot of trauma.

Lots of folks here will assist you in learning how to fly... some of it is trial and error but a much better way is through simple progression of projects from basic to advanced until one learns their machine backwards and forwards and can hear/smell/see that something unexpected is happening so that a crisis can be averted.

I hope someone else can step in to assist with your actual current problem- in the meantime we've all been there and sometimes just stepping away, unplugging the machine and giving it a good clean and then ensuring all the cables are secure and then formatting an reloading the project can make a world of difference.

I also have a simple carve that I do (a "C" ironically enough) when my machine gives me problems... when I am frustrated and a sensor isn't reading a piece of wood or I'm getting a tracking error I load up (the same each time!) a 12 inch long piece of MDF that is 4 inches wide and is taped on the bottom. When the machine (begins to) carve the "c" successfully I know that the problem lies elsewhere whether it is a knot or inclusion on an edge or too thin a board (you really need a bit more than .5 as the rollers seem to compress things a bit... a couple of strips of tape can sometimes help) or a dark piece of walnut, 99% of the time my problems have been operator error. (the other 1% have been a rolled under belt or a dirty sensor)

At any rate... we're here... if you keep up your rate of posting I'm sure none of us mind listening to you once every 2 years... but I encourage you to become a more prolific member of our little online society and I'm sure we can help you through this challenge and we will also be here to help you celebrate your successes.
V/r
Lawrence

[Proctorw]

We're here to help... and listen to you vent a bit too if necessary...

I describe the machine to folks as being like an airplane... it is not unreasonable for an inexperienced person to crack up an airplane the first time they use it if they have not properly prepared/understand exactly what is going on with the machine and why it acts the way it does.

Lawrence, Great analogy. I have had my machine since March 9th. I have learned a great deal about the machine and designer. I am an IT professional which has helped on the designing part and a part time woodworker/fixer of almost anything. My brother has asked me about buying one of these. I told him before he does, he needs to come up to my house for a weekend so he can understand what he would be getting into (he is not very good a troubleshooting). This machine is not magic. It requires a good amount of Preventive Maintenance and troubleshooting, a little more than I expected, but I understand why. When there is a problem, it can be a number of things, be it the machine/the software/the wood. I had an issue with the machine Air Carving and LHR helped me resolve it. Bottom Line, I am telling my friends it is a great machine, but requires a bit of "tinkering" with it every now and then.

[Orator98]

OK... I get the airplane analogy a little bit.... problem is I worked on airplanes for over 21 years. &nbsp;Airplanes are great... the technical data is great. &nbsp;If the Technical Manual says it'll handle anything over half an inch, I can put anything over half an inch... even if it's only .515 (15 thousandths over 1/2 inch). &nbsp;I was an avionics technician. &nbsp;If the program bit (built in test) said there was a problem with the board sensor, well by golly, there was problem with the board sensor. &nbsp;I'm honestly at a loss. &nbsp;I too have a cheater pattern I use. &nbsp;It's 4" x 16" very simple pattern. &nbsp;I generally put a 4" X 24" board in so that the project stays under the rollers. &nbsp;I've taken it apart again... cleaned everything with both vacuum and compressed air. &nbsp;This thing is almost as clean as the day I got it. So, my dilemma... if it says check board sensor and the board sensor is OK (still reads in the 150-154 range on my red oak) what's next? &nbsp;If it says check the board tracking sensor and the board tracking sensor is OK... what's next? &nbsp;I even made sure the "spring" (little rubber tube) is putting up-pressure on the board roller sensor so it is firmly against the project board... &nbsp;If it says there's a board problem and I know the board is square, flat and precisely measured to the properties set in the designer software... what do you check next? &nbsp;Prior to going in the military I was working in a machine shop. &nbsp;I know how to use appropriate tools to check thickness, length and width. &nbsp;My practice board is honestly within a few thousandths of the board properties in the designer software. &nbsp;The designer software is up-to-date. &nbsp;The program automatically checks all that good stuff when you upload a project to the flash card, at least if you have an active internet connection. &nbsp;At this point my experience with the carvewright and LHR is not condusive to me wanting to spend another $3k for a Version C.<br><br>So, other than a little C-4 or a few 5.56 mm or 6.5 mm rounds any other suggestions? &nbsp;Anybody have a clue what error code 03-400 is? &nbsp;I can't find it anywhere...

[ladjr]

The biggest problem with a airplane is the Pilot. (I'm a pilot)

[bergerud]

Search "E03-0400" and you will find some stuff. I do not think it will help however. The code just means board sensor error.

If the board sensor is reading 150, it is good. Maybe you should check the FFC (Flat ribbon) wire for problems and end connections.

[fwharris]

Now how did Lawrence know you are an airplane buy? :)

On your 03-400 error code what was the machine doing when this code came up? That might help to point to a possible problem area.

On the board sensor issue, when you do the reading test is that from just one spot on the board or have you done the test by moving the truck from O point (off of the board on the key board side) to across the board and off of it on the other side? For this method did the reading stay constant as it traveled across the board or do they jump around or even got to 0? If so this could be a bad/broken FSC cable. As the truck moves the cable flexes. You can also flex the cable by hand to see if the readings change.

At what point do you get the board tracking error? During the measurement or carving steps?

[Orator98]

Well,as a maintenance person, we blamed the pilots a LOT! :D My brother works for Southwest Airlines as a mechanic. He started out with Value Jet about two weeks before the "Crash". My father (Republic Airlines mechanic at that time), myself (U.S. Air Force aircraft maintenance) nad my brother were in the car talking about the crash while my nephew was in the vehicle with us. He piped up and said, Well, I know one thing, I know it's not a maintenance problem"

I was measuring the board when I got the error. 03-400 error. I got the error after the following errors in succession Check Tracking Roller, Board (literally, nothing else, just Board), then Board Problem. When I pressed abort, I got the 03-400 error. I did an advanced search for "03-400" and got "No Matches" So, I must not even know how to search if there's tons of stuff on it.

I'm gonna check everything one more time including the ribbon cables, etc. If that doesn't fix it, it's off to the rifle range we go! :-?

[chief2007]

Is the board warped or cupped? Sounds like it is not making contact at some point with the brass roller.

Try putting a couple of strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board, brass roller side.

[lynnfrwd]

Just board is not a normal message. Check cables and connections.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Orator98]

Is the board warped or cupped? Sounds like it is not making contact at some point with the brass roller.

Try putting a couple of strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board, brass roller side.

OK, the masking tape seems to work. The board was flat, I ran it through a planer to get the thickness I wanted. I'm honestly struggling with the concept that you have to fool the machine at every turn. I realize this is a precision machine. I get that... as I mentioned in previous posts, I worked in a machine shop prior to my military career. I fail to understand why the machine won't do what it's supposed to do without all kinds of tips & tricks. It's like you just have to know stuff about the machine to make it work according to the supposed specifications. If the brass roller is against the wood why doesn't it just work? If the specifications on a bit say it will handle up to one inch of wood, why does the bit break with 1/2 inch wood? If the specifications say that the wood must be at least 1/2 inch thick, why won't it carve wood that is .515 in thickness? This just seems like a terrible way to do business.

Tom

[badbert]

All CNC machines have a learning curve. The machine is not without it's oddities and quirks. But this software and machine are by far the easiest to learn. We don't even have to learn toolpaths, the machine does that for you. The important thing is not to get discouraged. Keep learning and soon enough, the things that seem strange will become second nature. Things like masking tape and sleds will be part of the process and the results will be worth your time! It won't be long, you will be teaching others.

[lawrence]

OK, the masking tape seems to work. The board was flat, I ran it through a planer to get the thickness I wanted. I'm honestly struggling with the concept that you have to fool the machine at every turn. I realize this is a precision machine. I get that... as I mentioned in previous posts, I worked in a machine shop prior to my military career. I fail to understand why the machine won't do what it's supposed to do without all kinds of tips & tricks. It's like you just have to know stuff about the machine to make it work according to the supposed specifications. If the brass roller is against the wood why doesn't it just work? If the specifications on a bit say it will handle up to one inch of wood, why does the bit break with 1/2 inch wood? If the specifications say that the wood must be at least 1/2 inch thick, why won't it carve wood that is .515 in thickness? This just seems like a terrible way to do business.

Tom

The biggest difference (IMHO) on this is that this machine is built (and priced) to be a hobby-level CNC. It is VERY capable of precision work, but the truth is that it does take a pretty fair understanding of the machine to successfully accomplish carves that are to the far left and right limits of the machine's capabilities.

For example, the machine will handle 14.5 inch wide material up to 12 feet long, but if you try to carve a piece this size (and I haven't) you're REALLY pushing the limits of the machine and will likely encounter problems - even though this board is within the limits of the machine.

The machine absolutely can carve .5 material (I've done it) but it has to be dialed in perfectly- an easier solution is to just add an extra piece of tape to the bottom of your board to give you the thickness you require.

Simply put, you do have to know a lot about the machine to get it to work properly- especially on the far left and right limits of the machine's thicknesses, weight limits, width limits, or length limits... but from my discussions with owners of other CNCs, this is not uncommon.

To you, it may feel like a terrible way to do business, but I believe it is a pretty small price to pay to have such a capable machine at such a low price- nothing out there can touch the carvewright's capabilities for the monetary and footprint cost.

Lawrence

[Digitalwoodshop]

Tom,

To address your question as to why a bit would snap in 1/2 inch wood when it is designed to cut 1 inch wood... Actually .8....

It is not about the depth, it is about the machine loosing contact with the brass roller due to being lightly held to the sand paper belts and brass roller due to the board thickness. IF using a close to minimum thickness and the brass roller slips or looses contact with the tracking of the bottom of the board the high torque X drive has the ability to snap the 1/8 inch cutting bit as it is cutting.

Yes, it is good you have a Machine Shop and Military Background and with that knowledge it should be easy for you to understand the concepts of what the machine is expecting to see and why... I see you joined in 2007. Over the years we have written Tips and Tricks to help people with Pilot Errors that cause the machine to Crash. Your Intrinsic Knowledge is a great baseline to understanding the machine. Learning the fine points of proper operation is the key to eliminating your frustration that has you blaming the machine.

Once you understand the machine you will be much happier.

The simple act of putting strips of masking tape on the bottom of the board, one at the brass roller track to act as a soft material that lets the Brass Roller bite in and become a Rack and Pinion helps greatly to lock the X in the proper position. And if you are using a hard smooth wood like Oak or Maple, extra strips of tape on the underside of the hard board will also give the sand paper belts something to bit into. I have seen Oak and Maple SLIP on the sand paper belts ESPECIALLY when close to the Minimum board thickness...


Then we have the 7 inch rule of wood, where the board should be held down FLAT to the sand paper belts and brass roller by 2 ROLLERS. When you design a project where the board is only being held by ONE ROLLER, it can TIP UP loosing contact with the Brass Roller hence Snapping a Bit... This is again, Pilot Error... You must design projects to minimize potential problems so it is up to you to not design into the project a potential failure. Under Normal Circumstances you CAN cut a project that at times IS only being held by ONE ROLLER... Just as you CAN ride a bicycle using only ONE HAND.... We all know that riding a bike with one hand "CAN" result in a Crash... Or as we call it... "Pilot Error...." IF a Bike Manufacturer advertised that the bike can be operated with ONE hand leaving your other hand to TEXT MESSAGE and you crashed... Would you fault the Manufacture? I think NOT. Pilot Error...

Next up on the 7 inch rule of wood and one roller projects... The IN FEED and OUT FEED table.... IF either are adjusted TOO HIGH or TOO LOW as the board hits the Roller on the end of the table it can RAISE OR LOWER off a High Roller and THIS will tilt the Other End of the board... And if Said Board is being held by 1 roller and looses contact with the Brass Roller and SNAPS the bit.... The Rush to Judgment is... "The machine is at FAULT!!!!".... No we call it Pilot Error.....


So your homework... Take some time to read Tips and Tricks about using Sleds and Carrier Boards to cut your .515 thick board without snapping a bit and for more FrugAL use of wood. I use 4 inches rather than 3.5 inches as the board won't be on the peek of the Rubber Roller when changing directions. So I use 8 inches not 7 for staying under the rollers... Tips and Tricks will explain this.

And we are not fooling the machine at every turn... We are understanding what the machine expects and how to properly use it.

Nothing to do with a terrible way to do business but understanding how to use a machine. It's not the machine... It's the operator... sorry.


Good Luck,

AL

Retired Navy Chief.
Operating and Repairing High Tech Electronics since 1976.... Including Sony Factory Automation.

[Digitalwoodshop]

OK... Another post.... I looked over your previous posts to see if I missed anything...

The Early machines including your 2007 machine had a Board Sensor Weakness as in the Circuit Board was not glued to the black plastic holder. IF you used the QC Chuck after it was WORN OUT and causing high frequency vibration, this would cause the LED's in the board sensor to SNAP OFF.... The non glued Circuit Boards also let DUST get inside the Board Sensor Window. A Standard Test for the Board Sensor it to place a sheet of White Copy Paper on the board and crank down the head. Then using Options, Sensor Data, and Board Sensor you can read the Reflective Energy of the 2 IR LED's shining on the paper and seen by the Photo Detector between the LED's. Hence, the Reflective Energy.... With White Paper the reading should be about 156. A 90 could simply be a DIRTY WINDOW... IF the Board Detection Process has LESS Power when it goes off the edge of the board the change is reflective energy could be about the same. With a 156 then ZERO the machine is seeing the edge.... Like shining a flashlight down a dark road and seeing a REFLECTOR a mile away... You are seeing the reflective energy.... The White Paper gives you a STANDARD... My paper is the same as your paper... My Brown Board is different than your brown board...


Next... The 18 pin and 14 pin FSC Cable... The A907 upgrade gave US thicker Conductors for the Wires of the FSC Cable... The Thick cable that gives power to the Z Head AND is the return path for Encoder Data AND Board Sensor Readings.... The thinner 18 pin FSC Cables have a High Failure Rate.... HENCE.... You should upgrade to the 14 pin cable if you have not.... And just a warning... You must buy the A907 KIT... It has the Cable and 2 Circuit Boards... The New Boards are required as the new cable is 14 pin... IF you plug the new 14 pin cable into the OLD Circuit Boards with the 18 pin socket... The WIDER 14 pin cable will Short Out the thinner 18 pin socket... The Result.... The COMPUTER WILL FRY.... and it won't be the machine's fault...

And when you go to replace the board sensor if you pull the cable down you can cause it to slide along the cable slot and pinch on the sharp metal edge like 3 of my 4 machines did... Again... My Pilot Error... This caused a Short Circuit and many other problems. To fix a dirty window, I cut down the back of the sensor and then clean the window and tape the area closed.

Good Luck,

AL
PS: I push the use of Masking Tape as I have Stock in a Masking Tape Company.... LOL..