Is there a way to engrave (centerline) vectors?

[Underdog]

Is there a way to engrave (what CW calls "centerline") other vectors besides lettering?

I'm dismayed that it seems centerline can only be applied to lettering...

[DickB]

http://www.carvewright.com/assets/tips/CarveWrightTips_and_Tricks_May09.pdf

[lawrence]

You can also create vectors with the 2d tools or outside software such as Coreldraw and export/import the vectors as DXFs and treat them that way.

One last method is that you can use the "outline" function from the basic software to get general (outline) vectors which can then be manipulated.

Hope this helps,
Lawrence

[Underdog]

I'm not sure I understand....

Method one (create a new font) I think I understand.

Method's two and three (from Lawrence) I don't follow you.

I can only normally centerline DXFs? So if I don't have DXF Importer, I'm out of luck?

And how do I find the "outline" function?

[Underdog]

Here's a basic challenge. Can I take a 1/4" wide rectangle and centerline it? If you can explain how to do this, I can manage...

As an aside, I think "centerline" is a misnomer. In most CAM software terminology centerline is used for running the bit down the centerline of a path or geometry- it doesn't ramp up in the corners of a closed geometry, it just runs down the centerline of that geometry, whether it's open or closed.

More correctly "engrave" is the term that is mostly used for the chiseled lettering look - and it's only used on closed geometry.

[bergerud]

I'm not sure I understand....

Method one (create a new font) I think I understand.

Method's two and three (from Lawrence) I don't follow you.

I can only normally centerline DXFs? So if I don't have DXF Importer, I'm out of luck?

And how do I find the "outline" function?

Centerline only works with fonts. The bit follows the font and changes depth according to the font width.

The only other option is to follow vector paths with a bit. The depth, however, stays the same along the path. These paths can be drawn in Designer, imported into Designer (DXF importer), or created from carve regions using the outline tool in Designer.

The outlinetool is in the Tools menu (Outline Pattern(s)). Select a pattern and this tool will create a vector path which outlines the pattern.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Can you explain in a little more detail what you are trying to accomplish?

IF you wanted to cut a 1/4 inch square pocket, you could do it by making a rectangle and then select the bit and then set the depth and do a multi pass cut and set the depth per pass... I did this project with a 1/2 inch Plunge Bit with a cutter on the bottom.

I made the spacing to overlap the bit. I use it for a Quick No Brainier Actual Board to design a project with a slot. I use the Physical Board and pick the proper hole then look at the numbers in Designer. This gets me close the first time without much thought of 1/2 the diameter of the bit........ And the Board expands and contracts in size with Humidity... so it is only CLOSE....

So along the same lines, I use a 1/16th bit to cut plastic tags. I made the first rectangle with rounded corners. Then I made it a Carve Region and outlined it. I deleted the carve region and assigned the 1/16th bit. I do this step is that it makes less nodes especially with the line segments and 4 rounded corners that when you go to change the size of the rectangle can sometimes turn into Micky Mouse Ears. The outline of the Carve Region eliminates Micky Mouse Ears... I do a placement then change the bit to the 1/4 inch bull nose. I am actually going to cut this with the 1/16th inch bit but by selecting the 1/4 inch ball nose, the machine will vector cut in what I call first gear feed rate. If I left the bit 1/16th in Designer then the machine will cut in 2 different feed rates SOMETIMES faster than the bit can clear the chips for a small bit.

I use double stick tape to hold the tags since I don't have TABS with this method.

And the 3rd method is to cut wood letters in Vector mode like above by outlining each letter and making it a vector cut. The Trick is to leave a skin on the bottom of the wood to hold all the parts in place to prevent jamming and snapping the bit. Sand off the bottom skin to release the letters. This works great with the Key Chain Font.

AL

[mtylerfl]

Is there a way to engrave (what CW calls "centerline") other vectors besides lettering?

I'm dismayed that it seems centerline can only be applied to lettering...

Hi,

In the current version of Designer, you cannot perform "centerline" on anything other than fonts or drawn vectors and manually assigning a v-bit to follow the vector itself. (Only fonts will carve "centerline" inside a closed vector in Designer.)

The Paradise Box Project (http://www.vectric.com/cool-stuff/projects.html)I created for Vectric is just one example of the "centerline" technique I believe you are referring to (you can see from the link, I have designed about a dozen other projects that include the "chip-carved" style...i.e., what we are loosely describing as "centerline" here). Aspire, ArtCAM and other CAM software products do allow for "centerlining" the interior of closed vectors, and are not limited to fonts only.

A future, more advanced version of Designer will add that same capability, I'm sure. For the moment, we'll need to wait.

[Underdog]

I want to do the same thing with closed vectors of any shape that you can do with fonts. This is standard practice with the other CAD/CAM programs. This is called engraving by vectric, artcam, and alphacam software companies. I was expecting this same feature w the centerline software.

[cestout]

Centerline was designed to do lettering, any font on your computer. Otherwise you only have raster and outline for fonts. Without centerline you always could draw any lines, curves, or any shape on your piece and assign a bit to it. If you want to do fancy designs with centerline use dingbats/wingdings and the like. Centerline is designed to fill one need, to vector carve lettering, just like the new keyhole function is designed to fill one need. Conforming Vectors will work with center one vectors and any other vectors you draw. I don't have it, but I believe DXF Importer was designed to fit the need you have.

[mtylerfl]

I want to do the same thing with closed vectors of any shape that you can do with fonts. This is standard practice with the other CAD/CAM programs. This is called engraving by vectric, artcam, and alphacam software companies. I was expecting this same feature w the centerline software.

Actually, engraving is probably not what you want to use, unless you are using a diamond drag bit for actual engraving on metal plaques and such. For wood, the V-Carve option for generating toolpaths for a v-bit (or even a ballnose) is more the norm, and is exactly what I used for all those projects I showed you in the link...no engraving function was used.

You are right that enclosed vector carving (inside a shape) is pretty standard in other CAM software. But, as I mentioned, the current Designer doesn't have that feature yet. If/when it does become available, it will be a very nice addition.

In the meantime, it hasn't hindered me too much...there are PLENTY of creative design possibilities within the current Designer software and the corresponding add-ons. My "ta-do" project list is miles long and have lots of projects to keep me busy, even without the v-carving capability inside closed vectors. Any projects that may require that feature the CW are just "on-hold" for now.

I recall you have ArtCAM. You can do a "simulated" v-carve by generating the design in ArtCAM, saving the toolpath preview as an STL, then import that into the CarveWright software (via the CW STL Importer). Of course, this will be a raster carve (not a true v-carving) but the results can be very nice indeed. This is pretty much what I did for the free box project that is now included with every newly purchased CW machine.

[lawrence]

You don't need centerline to do this- just right click on the vector and "select bit" then choose your depth and bit type. No additional software (not even centerline) is required to do this as long as it is not inside a raster carve.

If it is, you need the conforming vectors software to create a vector "engraving" on top of a raster carve.

Again, if on top of the board, no additional software is required

Maybe a quick video slideshow will help? It's easier to make one to show you than to explain it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8qEu22IZLM&list=UU3tNEUF8NxlRATN8plvTCmw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8qEu22IZLM&list=UU3tNEUF8NxlRATN8plvTCmw&index=1
I hope this helps,
Lawrence

[mtylerfl]

Hi Lawrence,

Thank you for the input and video. However, we're not talking about the manual assignment of a v-bit to a vector which I think we've covered already...what we mean is "pocketing" to the "sharp" centers of the interior of a closed vector (other than a font). This function is what makes chip-carving styles possible to run with a v-bit as a vector carve. Check out the link I provided earlier for many examples of this technique.

[liquidguitars]

Hi Lawrence,

Thank you for the input and video. However, we're not talking about the manual assignment of a v-bit to a vector which I think we've covered already...what we mean is "pocketing" to the "sharp" centers of the interior of a closed vector (other than a font). This function is what makes chip-carving styles possible to run with a v-bit as a vector carve. Check out the link I provided earlier for many examples of this technique.

I did notice that LHR is programing a new pocket option until it done you can make your own using manual paths..

[Ton80]

This sounds like what I and over 90% of those that voted in the poll I made a few months ago are looking for. Hopefully it will come sooner than later because I think it's a feature that would benefit an awful lot of carvewright users. Certainly more than are benefited by a keyhole add-on ;)

I looked at the projects you developed for the vectric software, Michael. I recently did something similar through the centerline text add-on. Obviously I had to go though the steps of making the vector image and then import it into a font glyph and then into a font file so my CW could deal with it as a centerline text object. The chip carve effect worked. I would be more interested in projects like this one http://www.vectric.com/cool-stuff/projects/2011/bonus/mothers-day-keepsake.htm that you made. It's what I call engraving, whether that is the correct terminology or not I am not sure. This is also the type of project that I was referencing in my poll asking how many people would like to import SVG files as a vcarve. That thread got side tracked discussing file formats but I think the message was clear that a major majority of users want the feature.

You and a few others on the forum seem like you have access to the inner circle at LHR so hopefully this stuff does get read by them. I would like to think they understand its a wanted feature that many wonder why it's not there when its obviously something the machine is fully capable of doing.

[mtylerfl]

Hi,

By coverting a design of a closed vector, or entire group of enclosed vectors to become a "font", the CW Centerline feature will work similarly to a true v-carve (what folks here are calling 'engraving'...somewhat of a misnomer in the context we are speaking of now). Many have had great success with this workaround. Some vector groups are so numerous that the file size becomes unmanagable and the conversion can fail, but it does work sometimes.

I think most folks realize that research and development of the software is an ongoing and time-consuming process. Many features are experimented with, tested, tweaked and so on. It is often a laborious task, but that comes with the territory of software development.

The release of the 3D Tools last year was a particularly HUGE achievement! The 2D Tools, along with the ability to import a digital image to use as a tracing/drawing guide, was also a milestone for creative and practical use. Kudos to the Development Team for all their hard work making these available to us.

We will all continue to see additions of very useful and requested features. Takes time, though, to work through a substantial list of goodies to come!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Here Here... Where is that LIKE Button.... And... NOW I understand what was being asked....

AL

[lawrence]

that's good because I don't :)

UD- come back and explain things so that a simple (and slightly drunk after wine) guy like me can see what you mean... I thought you just wanted to engrave a shape such as a rectangle... but it seems there may be more to it?

Thanks to all for the enlightenment... I'll have to wait till tomorrow to try and understand methinks! (perhaps you mean take a picture and make a "centerline" type pic from it where the heavier the line makes a deeper carve?) to do this I use dingbats and a program called "fontcreator"

Lawrence

[bjbethke]

You can carve vector images with the centerline program, you will need a FontCreator program. With my program I can enter Vector or Raster images, the program changes the image to a vector. I think this is what you are trying to do.

You need to load the font to your computer to make it work.

[Dan-Woodman]

How does a novice transform zip into something usable into carvewright ready.

[Underdog]

Dan,
Right click and select "extract all". Then make sure you know where you unzipped it too.

[Underdog]

There are several ways to get from A to Z, but I've found that using 2D paths (squares, triangles, circles, lines) is the fastest way to get there. You can outline cut, inside cut, centerline cut, or pocket those 2D paths. This kind of program runs the fastest on any CNC router.

The absolute slowest way to get from A to Z is to create a 3D bas relief and carve it with a raster cut, IE 1/16" tapered ballnose bit with a small stepover- usually about 10% of the bit diameter. Using the CarveWright software, you don't have much user control over that except to set the carving quality to normal, best, optimal...

In between those two methods is what I've been calling the engraving method. It looks like chip carving. You use a V-bit, and the software factors in the angle of the bit and the width of the closed vector to create a chiseled like path where the angle of the bit runs from the inside perimeter of that closed vector all the way to the bottom of the cut, as in the examples shown in bjbethke (http://forum.carvewright.com/member.php?4109-bjbethke)'s post above. This is the quickest way to create a semi-3D look.

I gather that the only way this method is available to us is to use a font creator and bring our vectors into it, and output a font which we then place into windows for use as a font in Project Designer. And then we can use the "centerline" software to create that chiseled or chip-carved look.

[Underdog]

While searching for font creation tools, I found this article over on mashable.com.

7 free tools for creating your own fonts

http://mashable.com/2011/11/17/free-font-creation-tools/

I can't give any recommendation either way, but it's worth looking at. If I find something that works well, I'll let you know.

[mtylerfl]

...
I gather that the only way this method is available to us is to use a font creator and bring our vectors into it, and output a font which we then place into windows for use as a font in Project Designer. And then we can use the "centerline" software to create that chiseled or chip-carved look.

Yes, that is correct, for the time being. It's a topic that has been discussed a few times times before (previous to this thread)... the "font" conversion technique is a workaround.

Our friend and master artist, Doug Haffner, wrote a very nice and informative article that covers this technique and more. Please read the following:

ISSUE 20 May 2009 – The Power of Carving With Dingbats (http://www.carvewright.com/assets/tips/CarveWrightTips_and_Tricks_May09.pdf)

FYI: the title doesn't have anything to do with Archie Bunker's wife, Edith.

[liquidguitars]

Here's a basic challenge. Can I take a 1/4" wide rectangle and centerline it? If you can explain how to do this, I can manage...

For simple pockets you just assign a cutter to a manual path! Here is a small video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxovV5GQYPk

[Underdog]

The question has been answered. V-carve, engrave, centerline, whatever you want to call it, can only be done on fonts.

[lawrence]

I think it's because we are all using different vocabulary.... it made it tough to understand exactly what the question was and we're all trying to help.

Raster carve - different depths "true 3d"

Vector carve - 2 different types...
1. simple vector - one depth per vector line... can be programmed to create a multitude of things from an outline to a pocket depending on depth and bit used.
2. complex vector - different depths per vector line... can only be done with the centerline function on a font. If the vector desired is not already a font, one must be created.

Just clearing things up for anyone that reads this post... long story short is that this is a good example of how different vocabulary can cause confusion and frustration to both those
asking the question and those trying to help/answer it.

Your original "take a rectangle and centerline it" is a simple v-carve and doesn't require a font if you are happy with a consistant depth. It is only if you require the engraving to have
varying depths that you need to use centerline. "v-carve, engrave, centerline etc" require very different methods depending on whether you demand variable depth along the path
or not.

V/r
Lawrence

[Ton80]

I think it's because we are all using different vocabulary.... it made it tough to understand exactly what the question was and we're all trying to help.

Raster carve - different depths "true 3d"

Vector carve - 2 different types...
1. simple vector - one depth per vector line... can be programmed to create a multitude of things from an outline to a pocket depending on depth and bit used.
2. complex vector - different depths per vector line... can only be done with the centerline function on a font. If the vector desired is not already a font, one must be created.

Just clearing things up for anyone that reads this post... long story short is that this is a good example of how different vocabulary can cause confusion and frustration to both those
asking the question and those trying to help/answer it.

Your original "take a rectangle and centerline it" is a simple v-carve and doesn't require a font if you are happy with a consistant depth. It is only if you require the engraving to have
varying depths that you need to use centerline. "v-carve, engrave, centerline etc" require very different methods depending on whether you demand variable depth along the path
or not.

V/r
Lawrence

This response should be placed under the OP's question! It was a bit confusing to me after the second post about centerlining the rectangle because it no longer sounded like Underdog was trying to vcarve a complex vector as you call it.

The language on the forum can become confusing because you've got the technical crowd that is very familiar with CNC machines and the proper use of terminology and then you have the crowd that only knows the CW and might not used the proper "technical" terms when describing a subject. I'm in that latter crowd for sure. It would be nice if both crowds find a way to meet in the middle. The techies learn to not take things so literal when term is used in a way that might not be technically correct and those like myself can try to learn the proper way to describe what we are talking about...

[DickB]

I guess I should have been a little more verbose in post #2, but I was in a hurry.



different depths per vector line... can only be done with the centerline function on a font.
Lawrence

You're forgetting about the Select Depth Profile tool - limited, but I've used it a few times.

[lawrence]

I guess I should have been a little more verbose in post #2, but I was in a hurry.




You're forgetting about the Select Depth Profile tool - limited, but I've used it a few times.

Absolutely... (and oops!) thanks for the reminder of another tool available to us!

Lawrence

[bergerud]

I was just mentioning that to aokweld101 yesterday. You cannot select any bit you would like. It really is restricted to only the 90 degree or the 1/2 round bit.