Board Removal

[lostparts]

This mourning I set up the machine loaded a project and it started cutting. About 10 min into the carve the machine pushed the board out of its self and them posted a possible board removal error? What have I done wrong? Sorry to keep posting can't seem to get a lot happening with this machine.

[bergerud]

That is a strange one. Was the project set up to be under the rollers at all times?

[lostparts]

Yes sir. I am way to new to the machine to change that setting. It drug the cutter through the wood has it removed its self.

[bergerud]

That seems to me like a software glitch. I would reformat the card and try again. You should post the mpc on the off chance that a forum member might see something in it.

[lynnfrwd]

Taking a crack at it...usually when you are setting up your project and it pushes it out the back, it is a stuck compression roller. Not sure how often it happens during a carve. Worth a try.

Possible Board Removal Message

Description of IssueThe “Possible Board Removal” message occurs when the head is cranked up unexpectedly. Both compression roller switches would have to be showing released during the project which the machine interprets as no board being present.
Possible Causes
Possible causes are: the head is cranked up in the middle of the project, here is a fault in one or both compression roller switches, or one of the rollers falls when the board is only under it.
Troubleshooting Steps
Verify that the head was not cranked up during the project.
Check that there are no features going all the way across the board that would cause one roller to drop and go “Released”.
Check the roller state in the sensor check menu. Remove the workpiece, turn the machine ON, and navigate to the Configurations Menu from the CarveWright Main Menu by using the up/down arrows or pressing the “0” (Options) key on the keypad. Navigate to, or select key “7”, Sensor Check. Use the up/down arrows to find menu items titled Front Roller and Back Roller. With no board inserted they should both read Released.
If none of the above steps solves the issue consult a senior engineer.


See video: http://www.carvewright.com/support-page/maintenance/#compression_rollers

[mtylerfl]

This mourning I set up the machine loaded a project and it started cutting. About 10 min into the carve the machine pushed the board out of its self and them posted a possible board removal error? What have I done wrong? Sorry to keep posting can't seem to get a lot happening with this machine.

Can you upload the MPC here for us to take a look at?

[bergerud]

I think the "possible board removal" is an after the fact message caused by the malfunction. If the project was under the rollers at all times, why all of a sudden would the board be ejected with the bit still down? I cannot think of any mechanical reason.

[lostparts]

MPC attached I think

[liquidguitars]

Also it could be it just had to little roller/table pressure before starting... A good trick if the compression washers are not working well is to crank down the table and then lift up on the wood to make sure its snug with a little spring in it. then run the project...

[bergerud]

Ok, how about a picture of the board? (The mpc seems ok to me. Some text off of the board but that should not cause a problem.)

[bergerud]

I did some experiments to test the effect of uncompressing one or both rollers during a carve. All I could get was "possible board removal" with the truck raising. Never did the board move.

Interestingly though, I could press continue with the head up and it would continue to carve!

If I stopped the board from moving (belts slipping), the machine rolled the belts without lifting the truck.

So, the conclusion is: If the brass roller stops rolling during a carve, the machine will do as described. It will slowly roll the board out of the machine while the bit is still carving. The bit will carve a trough and when the board is out, the "possible board removal" error pops up.

So, Lostparts, you must find out why the brass roller was failing to roll.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I started a reply earlier in the day but got side tracked... It is all about the brass roller.... Sweet and Simple....

The brass roller tracks the board in X or Length. IF the Board looses contact with the brass roller then the computer is going to keep moving the X Servo Motor until the Brass Roller reads peoperly.... And if the Board NEVER touches the Brass Roller after loosing contact then the board will drive right out the end of the machine and the Rollers will drop and HENCE.... Possible Board Removal.... Like posted above... After the Fact Fault Code....

So lets look at the MANY ways this can happen...

1. If you design the project so that at some point it comes out from under one of the 2 rollers holding it flat to the sand paper belts AND to the Brass Roller... Tipping UP or just the release in pressure letting the brass roller loose contact.

2. The Board was installed in the machine at a slight angle where the board was facing slightly toward the Cut Motor and in the process of Carving 10 minutes the board walked so far away from the brass roller that it lost contact and the board drove out of the machine...

3. The board has a Defect on the Underside of the Board where the Brass Roller is riding. And the Brass Roller is not touching the board and it drives out.

4. Using a board close to 1/2 inch in thickness or LESS.... The machine will Spit out a board that is too thin....

5. A infeed or out feed table is adjusted too high causing a problem of the board being cranked down while on top of a high table and when the board is carving 10 min comes off the high roller and then there is not enough pressure holding the board down and it looses contact with the brass roller and drives out of the machine.

6. Like 5 but on the Out feed table and 10 min into the carve the board is forced UP onto the High Out feed Roller, TIPPING the board UP so it looses contact with the Brass Roller....

7. The LINE I am guessing is in the X Direction of board length.... I am betting it is at a angle.... As the Bit was cutting and expecting to index a fraction of an inch that turned into FEET.... Lucky it was not the Cutting Bit.... That would have been that high pitched "Snap" followed by "$40.00 Please" for a new bit....

I did not open the mpc, a picture of the top and bottom of the board would be nice to see what happened.

I dismiss a software problem and I dismiss a machine problem... For me all are related to Pilot Error in setting up the project and the loading of the board and understanding the machine.

I would review all the Tips and Tricks about project layout, Sleds, Carrier Boards, the 7 inch rule of wood as they relate to the machine... All "Could" have contributed to this problem. l am taking a bunch of big WAG's... as in "Wild AL Guess".z


Good Luck,


AL

[mtylerfl]

I just had a chance to look at your MPC. It is just fine (and looks good, too!). Wanted the MPC posted so onlookers could eliminate the possibility of any issues with the layout. Other than the curious item of having the text off the board as Bergerud mentioned, there is no layout issue and nothing that would cause any problem.

Both AL and Bergerud hit the nail on the head I believe with the Brass Roller loss of contact. AL has a great list of things to check. I'll mention one more item to check for...uneven head which leads to uneven pressure on the board. Is your shop above 50-degrees F? Cold shops will play havoc with head pressure.

Hopefully, you'll find the problem quickly and be able to carry on!

[liquidguitars]

It drug the cutter through the wood has it removed its self.

After looking at the MPC you posted I think some work is needed for one I would hide the text and move it into location before you upload to the card. Designer could of had a bad compile as the tool paths where calculated then confused. The error is not unlike a v carve error when the board does not calculate the tool path in zed and drags the cutter. I think if we had a "tool path "wire frame" we could see wuts up. Could be a good idea to send it to the programmers for testing.

BTW wondering when the cut drug through the wood if it was pointing to the text.

The room temp effecting the table pressure I not seen that much, it more likely the posts get dirty then sticky if it is the cold air temp, checking the board clamping pressure by lifting it up by hand before you measure is key for a reliable carve and don't be afraid to offset the wood in the machine.

[DickB]

I'm not convinced that the off-board text is benign. I'd remove it. On my first attempt at a 22" wide, two-board project, I had left text for the 2nd board off the project. The machine air carved off to the side in a strange way. Since the text is not doing anything for this project, why not be safe and remove it?

[lostparts]

Hey Guys I still haven't got this sorted out yet. The brass roller is not obstructed in any way that I can see. Sadly until the Monday after Easter I am tied up! (BBQ Fest!! I compete!) Thread is not yet dead just have another commitments. Thanks for the advise so far hope to better trouble shoot Monday.

Bless you all and I hope you and yours have a great Easter! Hug a Child or Grand Child, and fire up your wood smoker spring has sprung!

[Digitalwoodshop]

To Add to the list, a Rolled under Sand Paper Belt at the Brass Roller can lift the board off the brass roller too.. A very hard to see problem... You must look at the far side and measure the belt gap on the bit plate side... If they are different... Then you have a roller under belt. Usually the one on the Cut Motor Side. I have had 2 on the other for 100 of the Cut Motor Side.

Have Fun at the BBQ Fest.

AL

[bergerud]

It drug the cutter through the wood has it removed its self.

I have done further tests and, contrary to what I posted before, I cannot get the board to eject while the bit keeps cutting. (In my earlier tests, I took out the bit and so did not realize the truck had lifted slightly before the board rolled out.)

I now believe that under normal carving operations, the board will not advance while the carving bit is down. Therefore, having the carving bit cutting as the board moves in the x direction must be the result of a software malfunction.

I am back to the software glitch theory.

[lostparts]

So my next course of action would be?

[bergerud]

I would reformat the card and give it another try. Use some scrap wood and watch very closely for any new clues. If it was a software glitch, it might carve just fine.

[Digitalwoodshop]

And.... Check for a Rolled Under sand paper belt.

And.... Check Head Level.

And.... Check the 2 Screws on the UNDER side of the machine that go into the vertical Smooth Rails that the main head rides up and down on for tightness.

And.... How about a picture of the bottom of the board and the top of the board.

I still believe that while cutting, a shift in the X that is part of the carving or cutting that finds the X not reading the proper number it would continue to move the X Servo until it got the number or spit the board out even with the bit down.

And what bit was cutting when it spit out?

AL

[lostparts]

Still working through your list but carving bit was in.

[lostparts]

Tried again today. doing the same thing. Email CS hopefully they will let me send it back, this thing is way to much trouble.

[lynnfrwd]

I replied to your email.

Your machine is under warranty. I don't understand why you aren't calling us to troubleshoot it with you.

[lostparts]

Called, waiting to be called back. ( just now he said it could take a couple of MIN 5-10 checking the mcp file for a mistake on my part, It wouldn't surprise me. My machine hasn't ran enough to hardly learn to use it) I don't like calling in because of how much run around I got the first time I had an issue! ( a couple of emails 4-6 call's you know that sort of thing give's me a headache, and I start to loss my sweet disposition.)

On a side note, I bought the wife a new Honda, If there is a problem with it while it is under warranty, it go's back to were it came. I am not an auto tech, nor am I a machine tech.

[lynnfrwd]

Tried calling twice and got recording. No opportunity to leave a message.

Call us in the morning when you are able to troubleshoot.

[lostparts]

ok, we were just flooded in phone and power has been hit and miss

[lynnfrwd]

Your project looks fine.

You checked encoders and they were fine.

Without seeing the actual board that this happened on, it is hard to determine. It sounds to me like this is a similar problem to the other thread. Looking at that photo, was it similar?

What is your head pressure and have you run a check on your compression rollers?

Most likely it is an issue with the tracking being lost: board out from under one roller or cupped board that lost tracking on that side.