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PCent
02-25-2013, 08:07 AM
Hello everyone -

I purchased an old compucarve this week with less than 1 hour on it (lucky!) I have an application where i have several small blocks made from cheap stud wood that I had hoped to carve lettering into, some being very small (1/2"). Some of the blocks are painted, and I hoped to carve directly into the painted blocks.

I was very unhappy with the look that the 1/16" bit gave me (attached). This example was done using the "draft" setting...but the "normal" and "optimal" were no better. The word "TAKE" is about 1/2" tall, and as you can see, there is no definition in the lettering. It looks nothing like it is rendered in the designer software.

I have been reading about the 60/90 bits and centerline, but I have a few questions.

I hoped to create my artwork in Adobe Illustrator and bring it in. Can centerline be used with imported art?
If not, is there control of specific letters? I'm a design/type nerd, and some letter spacing needs to be manually adjusted. This will happen regularly (why i had hoped to typeset and lay everything out in illustrator)
In addition, I will be putting many of these in a jig at one time. I had hoped to create one large illustrator file that i could import into the designer software and do it all at once.
Any additional tips on how i can get the best small type carved given my scenario?

THANK YOU! This seems like a great community.




60333

edzbaker
02-25-2013, 08:22 AM
I once purchased a used machine from a guy on e-bay, that was not satisfied with the carving results. His problem was the same as yours. The 1/8 "Cutting" bit is not made for carving and will give POOR results. Raster carvings always need the 1/16 Ballnose bit.

I hope this helps.

PCent
02-25-2013, 08:25 AM
Another thing to note: illustrator creates vector art. Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

rcdages
02-25-2013, 08:50 AM
PCent,

On raster make sure to use the 1/16" carving bit.

The 1/8" cutting bit was not designed to carve with. As you know how that turns out.

PCent
02-25-2013, 08:58 AM
Sorry guys, typo. used 1/16th. that's what the example is carved from.

rcdages
02-25-2013, 09:19 AM
Would be good if we had an MPC to view.

mtylerfl
02-25-2013, 09:33 AM
Yes, please post the MPC. One thing to keep in mind about lettering done as a raster carve...you have to be "reasonable" in your expectations. If lettering is too small, too high, too thin, too tall, it will chip and/or just not look good. Over time (not long), you will gain an understanding of what works well when machining wood and what won't. Looking at the photo, it appears the lettering layout needs help. Your MPC will reveal possible actions to take for improvement.

I use CorelDRAW a lot for creating vector designs. Then I'll import those vectors using CarveWright's DXF Importer add-on. Of course, you can do the same thing with Illustrator (I own that as well, but prefer CorelDRAW because I'm faster with it).

So, let's see an MPC or two and we will try to offer some helpful suggestions.

EDIT: for small lettering, Centerline is going to give you the best quality appearance

PCent
02-25-2013, 09:34 AM
Hi -

So the mpc is over at my father's house, but I attached a very similar one (the one my fathers was based on). Here were the settings:

Serff font, similar to cambria
.025 depth
1/16th bit
invert pattern
best optimization
60340

TerryT
02-25-2013, 09:42 AM
It looks to me that the patterns you used were low resolution and a little jagged. Also the wood you use will play a role in the quality of the carve. The best results in small text would come from a harder wood like walnut or cherry. Softer woods usually are more fuzzy.

rcdages
02-25-2013, 09:57 AM
PCent,

You have two of the best helping you Michael T and Terry T.

I can not view your mpc, do to me being at work, I will view it tonight just so I can learn something.
By this evening you will have an answer from the great help you will receive from the forum family.

mtylerfl
02-25-2013, 10:06 AM
It looks to me that the patterns you used were low resolution and a little jagged. Also the wood you use will play a role in the quality of the carve. The best results in small text would come from a harder wood like walnut or cherry. Softer woods usually are more fuzzy.

I don't see any patterns on that...it's just text.

I made a slight modification (simply changed Bit Optimization from "Best" to High"). Also deleted a stray vector that was throwing an error upon file opening. The preview is normally very accurate. However, it is not always going to give you a true preview of the actual outcome on text. You will need to actually carve this to see what it will really look like. (for example, Centerline Text preview seems to always look very "jagged" but will come out nice despite the preview.)

Depending upon the wood, you will likely get a little chipping at locations of the rastered lettering where there is a sharp point. It depends whether the bit is traveling in a conventional or climb direction and how the grain is in the wood itself. So, run a test carve and see if this modified version comes out any better and please let us know the result.

PCent
02-25-2013, 10:10 AM
Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I simply used the text tool in this case. Understand about the wood...still would like to try to get a bit better accuracy. Thanks.

PCent
02-25-2013, 10:15 AM
I will try this tonight, mtylerfl.

In the meantime, I have been very interested in learning more about centerline and the 60degree bit. It seems this will give me the speed and accuracy i'm looking for.

Before i purchase the bit, I have some questions for you pros. If i used this same bit with vector art i import, is it possible to get the same speed/quality results as centerline?

Digitalwoodshop
02-25-2013, 12:01 PM
PC,

Like posted above, the choice of your wood is very important... Pine is a very stringy large grain wood as in 2 x 4 pine. This lets the wood Tear easily.... A harder wood like Maple will result in better resolution. I use a Clear Hard Pine that I get at my local lumber yard that comes from New Zealand of all places.... Long Leaf Hard Pine. It cuts nice....


Next, small text is best done in Centerline Text Mode and that is a Add On Software package. Well worth it... You will need a V60 and V90 bit to do this.


Next, is Homework... You have many questions and we are here to help. But taking the time to read the Tips and Tricks on the LHR site is going to give you a big boost of info you will need to know. Many of the Pilot Errors that will happen are all addressed in the Tips and Tricks. Scaling and the 7 inch rule of wood is 2 things you will need to understand before moving forward.

Another Add on is Conform and that will let you put Centerline Text in a Recess Area. For example this carved Maltese Cross has a plate to add text. Normally Centerline will be too light as the bit won't reach the carved area as it it slightly lower than the board surface. In the past we would do 2 projects, the first to carve the cross then the 2nd to put the text into or on the recess area by letting the bit touch the plate area. Contour will let you put that text in place all in one project.

And there will be a limit to how SMALL you can make the text and it still look good... It's called Resolution... To do smaller text you are better off with something like a Rotary Engraver designed to do small text like name tags.

And for the small text, you may want to look a Single Stroke Fonts like "Modern" Font.

That taped on board is another trick from Tips and Tricks... Use a 4 inch block of wood taped to the end of the board and using place on END or Corner to cut the board. Putting a 4 inch blank area on the right side of Designer to STAY UNDER the ROLLERS without selecting stay under rollers. And leaving the board long and cutting the project off the long board when done like the 2nd one. Better FrugAL use of wood... And when a board comes out from under 1 roller the board can TIP UP and loose contact with the brass roller OR leave a Carved Line in the Wood 3.5 inches from the end of the physical board. LOTS to LEARN... But you are off to a GREAT START.... WE were all new once.... WELCOME !!!!

Good Luck,

AL

TerryT
02-25-2013, 02:09 PM
Sorry, thats what I get for just skipping throught, I saw the comment about importing from Adobe Illustrator and just assumed.

mtylerfl
02-25-2013, 06:07 PM
...
Another Add on is Contour and that will let you put Centerline Text in a Recess Area.... ...Contour will let you put that text in place all in one project.
AL

Just a slight correction in case he goes looking for a "Contour" add-on. It's actually called Conform

dcalvin4
02-25-2013, 08:29 PM
Michael T
Just curious why would you change bit Optimization from "Best" to High").
just wondering
denny

mtylerfl
02-25-2013, 09:11 PM
Michael T
Just curious why would you change bit Optimization from "Best" to High").
just wondering
denny

Hi Denny,

Download that MPC and select "Best". You will see that the lettering becomes thinner...too thin, I think. By choosing a lower optimization, it changes the amount of material "protected" and allowed to be "taken away" by the carving bit. This is a rare case where "Best" may not be the 'best' choice.

badbert
02-25-2013, 09:25 PM
I agree with Michael T. Best is not always the best choice. especially when using text. Some fonts will make an outline around each letter when using best.

Digitalwoodshop
02-26-2013, 02:01 PM
Just a slight correction in case he goes looking for a "Contour" add-on. It's actually called Conform

Thanks MT, another "Senior Moment... CRS..." Can't Remember Stuff....

AL

dcalvin4
02-26-2013, 03:18 PM
Michael
sorry i just dont see the difference
I do not understand Optimise function at all
I allways use best thinking it must be the best
Basically I dont have the foggiest notion what it does
I wonder if Ask Bud has a vidio on this
if not i will prob. be calling u
denny

DickB
02-26-2013, 05:40 PM
I posted on bit optimization not long ago: http://forum.carvewright.com/showthr...177#post194177
(http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?22299-Trouble-with-text&p=194177#post194177)
In the following drawing, the black line represents the side view of a carve region with a raised letter I in it. With no optimization, the tip of the bit will follow the deepest part of the carve region, like this:


603656036660367
The taper of the bit, and the 1/16" tip, will distort the cut from the ideal (black) and actually cut the top of the letter I quite narrow. Probably not desirable.

With bit optimization best, the software compensates for the taper of the bit and the round tip:
6036360364
This produces a thicker letter I. However, Best also can leave some funky undesirable artifacts at the sharp edges (take a close look at the images in my other post).

So there is no one answer. Which optimization to choose depends upon the pattern, if you are carving raised letters or recessed letters, what parts you want or need to emphasize, and just what looks best.