Major problems

[Shacky]

I have been trying to do a carving for a few days and am totally frustrated. The original setting was for a wide board and I kept having problems like tracking errors and y axis errors. I chalked it up to that the wide board was a bit warped and I just couldn't find a board the machine "liked." Last night I started it fresh and the picture below is what I found this morning. I completely redesigned the project, downsized the board width, eliminated the carve region and even simplified the carve elements so that it would be easier.

I actually caught the error on video (handy iPhone) and as you can see, the motor speed slowed, there was some clicks, and then it went to a y axis error. The carve was only a couple minutes into it and it did the same thing just before this video, but the motor sped up again and it continued on.

Anyway, I am guessing that someone will be able to look at this video and tell me exactly what my problem is. I sure would appreciate it as I am a bit frustrated.

Here is the link to the video on YouTube (its about 30 seconds). http://youtu.be/O-XoCorbz2s

[fwharris]

I would check the Y bearings in the Y gear box to start with. With power off move the truck back and forth and listen for the clicking sound. Also watch the white gear on the Y motor to see if it moves while moving the truck.

You can also do the user tests on the Y axis. options (0,8 ) on the keyboard..

[Shacky]

Will do and will report back soon. Thanks!

[b.sumner47]

You also might want to check the belt tension in both belts for thr truck, vert.& horz. That being the x & y belts. Good luck .


Capt Barry

[mtylerfl]

Some guesses and things to check...

The video doesn't really give us much to go on. I think I heard the clicks, though. Your photo looks like there is a board feed problem in the X-axis. The clicking could be from the X-gears (possibly breaking teeth?). Clicking could also be from the Y-belt/drive gears too, I suppose. (I did see the Y-axis error appear on the LCD.)

Check that your board is not "wedging" between the stationary plate and the sliding plate. The sliding plate should not be pressed too tightly to the board...leave a couple business card thickness between the board edge and the sliding plate to reduce/eliminate x-axis feed problems.

What is the shop temperature? Too cold of an environment can and will lead to board feed and other misc. issues.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have gone through about 4 different causes looking at this but I think I found the real reason....

The clue is in the Video... I watched it a dozen times.... Finally captured it in a screen shot....

There are 2 problems posted here....

The posted picture threw a detractor in the puzzle... THAT is the original problem with the project where the board lost contact with the brass roller and indexed in the X or Board Length all the way through the blank area. So Warped board is a valid possibility.... OR the board is missing some WOOD under the board at the Brass Roller Track, OR Sawdust built up under the board and top roller, OR the Head is loose as in the screw going into the bottom of the smooth rails at the keyboard side.... OR the board was loose in tension as in the head cranked down on the board too loose... OR the board cranked down on the WARPED PART and when the LEVEL part got to the cutting area the board was NOT cranked down hard enough and hence the board moved in the X Direction DUE to too loose of head pressure and LOSS OF CONTACT with the Brass Roller.... Project 1 Photo of board.

NOW for problem 2... The VIDEO.... As seen in the screen shot, the project was re designed and the machine is cutting THROUGH the board on the KEYPAD SIDE and the RUBBER ROLLER DROPPED INTO THE HOLE or the Carved Out area and the board lost contact with the BRASS ROLLER and the NOISE is the X Servo Motor RACING AT HIGH SPEED to move the Sand Paper belts to put the board into position.... I bet a picture of failed project would show the side rail or what Normally Supports the LEFT or Keyboard Side of the board MISSING..... Hence the Big HOLE that the Rubber Roller fell into....

So the question is 2 part... 1. Did the project get designed that way with cutting of the Carve Region off the side of the board by design?

or 2. Did the Y Gear Box Fail and the Y lost it's home position and continued to cut the board BUT now cutting away the Keypad side of the board for at LEAST 3.5 INCHES..... Enough to get under the Roller on the left side..... You can see better in picture 2 where the carve region has cut away the RAIL... or Support side of the Carve Region.... Project 2 the Video.

Need to see a picture of the board from project 2.... Bet the Stall part is 3.5 inches from where the carve region was cutting away the rail on the keyboard side.

Very Confusing....

AL

I have revised this post about 10 times.....

[b.sumner47]

Nice work, Al. Goes to show that nothing is as simple as it sounds.


Capt Barry

[mtylerfl]

Nice work, Al. Goes to show that nothing is as simple as it sounds.


Capt Barry

I was thinking the opposite...most problems can be traced to simple pilot error! Don't use warped boards, keep the machine clean, run in temps higher than 50 degrees, don't have voids where the rollers and /or the brass roller can go awry, etc. etc.. ;)

[Shacky]

As always, I am so grateful for the great help here on the forum. After reading the first post, I headed right out to my shop (nice and warm by the way) and proceeded to look up maintenance and y axis. I came across the Carvewright maintenance page with instructional videos that you fellows are probably quite familiar with. But, for anyone who isn't, this page gives some great easy to follow information and video instruction on lots of different areas. Here is the link:http://www.carvewright.com/support-page/maintenance/#check_boardsensor Although I take pride in keeping my machine clean and lubricated, I am embarrassed to admit that I was not familiar or have ever performed cleaning of the axis bearings or removed the wing guards. I cleaned and oiled the x and y bearings, cleaned and oiled the rail and idle pulleys and reset the tension on the y belt. I am now running the second (smaller) project and it appears to be working great. It will be another hour of so on the carve. I will report back and if all is well maybe try a big board again.

BTW, special thanks to Al for taking so much time looking over the video and thinking over the problem. I'll post back soon.

[mtylerfl]

That's great news, Shacky! Sounds like you're good to go! Let us know the outcome.

[Capt Bruce]

Inquiring minds want to know . . . . . How did the carve turn out Shacky?

I too learn something new every time one of us runs into a problem, and the experts kick in and diagnose the reported symptoms. Now we're depending upon you to help us all move to the next stage and see if it worked and we can declare VICTORY and go home smarter, or move ahead with the troubleshooting.
Thanks

[Shacky]

The small one came out without a hitch. I am trying out the big one now. It seems to be going well and has a couple hours left. I think (hope) that my main problem was that I had never removed the wing guards and cleaned the bearings. I keep my machine clean, but I missed out on that one. I'll post pictures when my project is done.

[Shacky]

Well, bad news. My problem is back. As I said, after I cleaned the bearings and rails the machine sailed through the first small carve no problem. I started the second larger job and it got about half way through when problems started again. The machine stopped and the message was clean the y rails. So, I put a bit of WD40 on my finger and rubbed along the top and bottom of the x and y rails and they felt smooth and clean. I hit the button to continue and the motor spun up, the head moved all the way to the left and went down and stopped and I got the same message. I did the same thing and then video recorded the result. (Link is below.) The motor spun up, the head went down and made contact with the wood and the machine stopped. This time the error was y axis stall. So, I guess I'm back to square 1. What next?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuBSrnOYI_o

[fwharris]

I am still stuck on the Y bearings in the gear box. Is this your original machine from 2009?

Was the depth of carve on the big project deeper than your small carve?

[Shacky]

This is my original machine. I can check the hours on it, but I don't use it in the summer as I have a seasonal job, so it's not used continually. I don't think the carve was necessarily deeper. The sun in the middle of the project could go upto a half inch deep, but the circles on the small project are that deep on the outside ring. I posted the big carve. I'll put up the small one.

[mtylerfl]

I agree with Floyd that there may be something amiss with the Y "somewhere". I know you said you reset the tension on the y belt. Normally, you simply loosen the screw/bracket, let the built-in spring do its thing, then just retighten the screw. However, if the shaft of the big white gear is worn, or if any teeth on that gear have broken, or if a bearing is bad inside, the tensioning won't fix it. Closely inspect the Y belt itself for any wear or rubber teeth missing. I replaced a Y belt a few months ago because it had stretched (the tension adjustment was not able to tension the belt properly) and started to show signs of deterioration (worn teeth in a couple spots) after years of use.

The puzzling thing is why did your smaller project work alright? We don't know. Lucky, I guess?

I doubt the problem has much to do with your MPC, but perhaps you can post it for us to take a peek, just "in case".

EDIT: oh, I see you posted the MPC while I was writing this post!

[mtylerfl]

Well...that's odd...when I try to open your MPC, Designer immediately crashes.

Anyone else having this problem?

(I'm using 1.186 Build 10507)

[RogerB]

yes i can't open i crashes here to.

[mtylerfl]

Hmmm...very strange indeed.

Shacky - could you please upload the MPC again - maybe the file got corrupted during upload (very rare, but possible).

[chief2007]

This has happen before in a couple other post. The card needs to be reformatted then upload the project again.

Y axis stall happen to me on a project, I switched machines and the same thing happened at the same spot.

I reformatted the card, double checked the project, saved it again under a different name, reloaded it and the project ran without a glitch.

Can't say this is your problem, but worth a try.

[Shacky]

I'll re-save the mpc and repost it and see if that makes any difference. Is it both of them that won't open? I just went out and inspected the belts. The both look really good to me. No broken teeth and I can't even really detect any wear on them. Both belts are taunt and as I said I loosened up the screw and let the y belt adjust it's tension. The gears look good too. The idle gear on the right does not seem to have any wobble in it.

[Shacky]

That would be an easy fix!


This has happen before in a couple other post. The card needs to be reformatted then upload the project again.

Y axis stall happen to me on a project, I switched machines and the same thing happened at the same spot.

I reformatted the card, double checked the project, saved it again under a different name, reloaded it and the project ran without a glitch.

Can't say this is your problem, but worth a try.

[mtylerfl]

Certainly worth trying - nothing to lose and everything to gain!

[Shacky]

Here are the two carve projects saved under new names. I am using the same software version.

[Shacky]

Oh, one thing I noticed. When I moved the head back and forth on the y rail, it all seemed smooth and, as I said, the belt looked fine. When I moved it up and down, it moves easily and the belt looks good, but I do hear a click or two right about in the middle of the travel.

[mtylerfl]

Here are the two carve projects saved under new names. I am using the same software version.

Shacky,

Both open fine now. Thanks.

Another question...Can you tell us exactly what size the boards were that you put into your machine for EACH project (and whether you are using a sled or not...if using sleds, please provide their exact dimensions)?

[Shacky]

Is this something I can test?


I am still stuck on the Y bearings in the gear box. Is this your original machine from 2009?

Was the depth of carve on the big project deeper than your small carve?

[mtylerfl]

You can do a sensor check )page 55 of your hardware manual), but that will only tell you there is a problem...it won't tell you exactly where the problem is. Usually have to take apart the motor and peek inside for that.

Got those board dimensions for us yet? I bet there are a couple folks thinking along the same lines I am right now...but we can't explore further without knowing the board sizes...

[fwharris]

Probably the easiest way to test is to view the white gear end while moving the truck in the Y direction and see if there is any play/movement. You can also grad the end of the gear and try to move it back and forth.

Another thought is a possible broken fsc cable.

[Shacky]

Board for the big carve- 11 1/8 x 38 15/16
Board for the small carve- 5 6/16 x 38 15/16 (I used a micrometer and measured 5.44" on the width, which I calculate at about 5 6/16"-you said "exact")

EDIT- No sleds

[chief2007]

[QUOTE=Shacky;198117]Here are the two carve projects saved under new names. I am using the same software version.[/QUOTE

Try changing the bit optimization to best on your patterns, it will give then a smoother carve. Also carve on best or optimal setting as you have a couple of deep carves of patterns in you projects, Draft or Normal will make carving the project harder on the machine with a .5 depth.

[Shacky]

I always carve on "best".


[QUOTE=Shacky;198117]Here are the two carve projects saved under new names. I am using the same software version.[/QUOTE

Try changing the bit optimization to best on your patterns, it will give then a smoother carve. Also carve on best or optimal setting as you have a couple of deep carves of patterns in you projects, Draft or Normal will make carving the project harder on the machine with a .5 depth.

[chief2007]

Well maybe luck is changing with being able to open the files.

Hopefully you will be able to have a successful carve.

Would be nice is it works out to be a file name change and card re-format.

[Shacky]

Without taking anything apart, both the drive gear on the left and the idle gear on the right appear to be OK. Teeth seem to be intact and there doesn't seem to be any wobble. Obviously, I can only tell so much with opening up the gear box. It does appear some dust has worked it's way in there, you can see it on the side of the gear.

[Shacky]

One more bit of information. I saw reference of this on another thread so I thought I would mention it. I am using a Rock Chuck. I don't have O rings but I have always installed them by hand to the first flute starting right at the chuck and have never had a problem. I only mention it because there was speculation that a recent software upgrade could be unfriendly to the RC.

[Shacky]

Wow, I must have burned people out. :p

[roughcut]

My machine is pretty smart but I don't think it is smart enough to tell the difference between a Rock and a CW chuck.

[Digitalwoodshop]

Just after midnight... I don't normally work this late...

The Video where the Y head starts to carve and crashes into the keypad side is simply because the head thinks HOME is about 10 inches further to the LEFT... When you first turn the machine on and select a project the machine moves the Z up and crashes into the upper mechanical pin. THAT is Z Home 0000. Then it moves left and Crashes into the Keypad Side and THAT is Y Home 0000. IF something in the Y Crashes as in the Axis Stall or Clean Rails then it IS possible that the machine will LOOSE HOME... And then it will crash into the keypad side.

IF you had turned OFF the Machine and started it back up then it would have re established HOME but you would have LOST the Project and would need to start over... But it is already messed up....


My recommendations:

1. Run a little TEST First.... Turn machine off and move the head all the way to the keypad side. Then turn it back on then Options or 0, 7, then Sensor Data. Then Arrow Down to Y Data. It should read 0000 and it should read 0000 touching up against the keypad side.

Move it slowly all the way to the bit plate. WATCHING the LCD and since the Encoder is just a clear disk with black lines in it, as the Shaft Rotates the encoder will count 0001, 0002, 0003..... WATCH to see if while you are moving it, the numbers change in relation to your movement of the Y.... The big thing is does it STOP Counting while you are moving it...? It should be reactive to movement...

Go all the way to the bit plate then all the way back to the left keyboard side. When you return, the Encoder on the LCD should read 0000 or close to it.... not 0246 for example... ONLY if the Encoder or Gear Box Slipped would you get a reading different than 0000.

That was just a test.... Now the real work comes.... First UN PLUG the machine.

You must remove the Right Side of the machine and the TOP COVER. PROTECT the Clear Plastic Cover from CRUSHING the 2 Cover Switches as the clear cover does not have a mechanical stop when the top cover is removed and can DAMAGE the Switches.

Remove the Spring loaded screw from the Y Idle Bracket.

Remove the Screw on TOP of the Y bracket at the Cut Motor.

At the Y Motor. UN PLUG the power for the Y Motor. Remove the Y Motor.

Now lets focus on the Y TRUCK First.... With the Belt loose now, MOVE the head left and right looking for a FROZEN BEARING.... Bet you find one.... I did and my Y worked... More of bearing replacement if you find one frozen... but simply... WD-40 to clean and then light oil to lube... OR REPLACE with NEW.... And with the OIL... Keep it from the BELTS and mixing with Sawdust to make a FIRE HAZARD... Clean any excess....


NEXT.... Y Motor... Remove the back plastic cap on the Encoder.... Find any DUST... Like my Picture?.... Gently Blow the dust out careful to NOT damage the clear disk. Check if the DISK can SPIN FREE of the Shaft.... This has been reported... A Drop of Glue fixes it... Put cover back on.

NEXT... Move the big plastic gear.... Does it WOBBLE? Bet it does.... Next Remove the C Clip on the back of the Gearbox on the Shaft of the big gear. Slide the Gear and Shaft out.... Recommend you replace the 2 bearings... To get them out.... use a small Allen wrench through one bearing hole to tap the far bearing out... There is a Shoulder in the middle so the bearings come out the same side.


Put it all back together and give it a try...

Let us know what you find out....

I see in the other bearing pictures that the inner gearbox bearings have spacers now....


AL

[Shacky]

Thanks, Al. I will follow your instructions to a T. First I have to go run the snowblower. It's a snow day here.

[Shacky]

My machine is pretty smart but I don't think it is smart enough to tell the difference between a Rock and a CW chuck. I think the issue being discussed is that the new firmware may have less tolerance for bit length and expects bits to be the exact length as bits in the carve tight chuck. Bits placed in the Rock, may be a bit different from that. I see in another thread that some folks suspect this to be the case as they are getting faults they never had before.

[Shacky]

OK, first I tested the y truck. When I turned the machine on with it all the way to the keypad it showed 00, as I slid it across the rail it counted up the numbers regularly all the way across and back and showed 00 again at the keypad. So, that was good.

I removed the Y motor pack. I inspected the belt, rail and the idle pulley and they look good. I was able to slide the plastic dust shield around and clean the little bit of dust inside. There really wasn't much and the gear seems to be good and tight with no play in it. Teeth are all accounted for too. I removed the black cap on the back of the motor and it was really quite pristine. I noticed that if I held the clear disk, I could turn the gear but not easily. I put a drop of super glue on the axle and cleaned my finger prints off the clear disk. The disk is not touching either the top or the bottom of the sensor area. I assume that it is an optical thing going on there, so I made sure the disk was clean and spinning in the space without touching anything. I have uploaded two pictures which may give you a bit of an idea what I found. I have been cleaning the inside of the machine and will put it all back together.

The good news everything looks good. The bad news is, I'm not finding a problem. Did I miss anything?

[bergerud]

I do not know if these things have been suggested before but here goes: Does the truck roll smoothly on the rails? (With the motor out, it should glide.) Is the bit sharp? Is the y belt clamped tightly in the back of the truck?

[Shacky]

Yes, the truck rolls smoothly. The bit is not new, but I think it's fine. I will closely inspect the clamped belt on the back of the truck, but I think it's fine. I'm thinking I'll check all that out, reformat the memory card, resave the project and see what happens unless someone has something else for me to check.

[bergerud]

I think it is pretty clear that the y is slipping. The clicking sounds are the belt or the gears slipping. To me, it sounds like the belt. Maybe you could mark it with a felt pen and test whether it really does slip. As a test, you could also over tighten it. Help the spring a little as you tighten the screw.

[henry1]

I do not know if these things have been suggested before but here goes: Does the truck roll smoothly on the rails? (With the motor out, it should glide.) Is the bit sharp? Is the y belt clamped tightly in the back of the truck?
bergerud sory to highjack but need the pic of the power supply you connecte to for the light can't seem to find it here,,,, never mind I did find it thx for all the help

[Digitalwoodshop]

I would remove the clip on the back of the big gear shaft and pull it out and measure the diameter of the shaft especially at the area right next to the plastic gear.

Before you do that, I would get back into the clear plastic cover of the gearbox and use your fingers to lock the servo motor and pull the big plastic gear AWAY from the servo motor and try to turn the big plastic gear. You are looking to see if the gear can be pulled away enough to let the big plastic gear skip teeth of the motor shaft... IF you can, that is what is happening with it looses home...

Something else I did not mention before is the Encoder Solder Joints. Where the Plug SOCKET is pushed into the Circuit Board than soldered on the bottom to some really small Donut like solder pads. Sometimes the Solder Joint Snaps between the Donut and the lead going into or out of the pad. It will make and break where it could test just fine like you did the 00 test BUT when cutting the Vibration will make it loose pulses.... This was a problem in 2007....


And you confirmed that all the Y Roller Rail Bearings move smooth and not clunky...?

See the picture of the gear, note the thin area to measure and see the rub marks... IF the Y Motor is installed in the U Frame not centered it can RUB between the gear and the belt area. You can mark the gear with a marker to see if it rubs off as it touches.

Just started snowing here... Expect 1 inch...

AL

[mtylerfl]

Yes, the truck rolls smoothly. The bit is not new, but I think it's fine. I will closely inspect the clamped belt on the back of the truck, but I think it's fine. I'm thinking I'll check all that out, reformat the memory card, resave the project and see what happens unless someone has something else for me to check.

One thing occurs to me...have you called CarveWright Tech Support yet? Perhaps they can do some "real-time" checks with you over the phone and help you get over this problem quicker.

[Shacky]

OK, I tested the gear by prying with finger between the brass gear and the big white gear and trying to get it to slip and I couldn't. I also inspected the teeth with a magnifying glass and don't see any sign of wear like if it slipped. I took it apart and there was very little dust behind the gear and I measured the shaft. There is a small indentation right next to the gear that measured 4.8mm. Up the shaft just a touch, but out of the indentation, it measures 4.9mm and at the top it measures 4.95mm. I attached a picture to show the indentation I am speaking of.

Regarding the truck moving across the rail. It moves with very little effort, but there is a little bit of resistance, I'm not sure how to judge if it's OK.

[ktjwilliams]

The last time I heard those kind-a clicks and clacks, even though then came and went,,, It turned out to be bearings... The 1st time it was the top spindle bearing.... The 2nd time it was the 2 bearings behind the plastic gear... Just my 2 cents...

[CNC Carver]

That shaft should be replaced. Also replace the bearings.

[Shacky]

OK, would it be asking too much to have you help me identify the parts to order?

[henry1]

OK, would it be asking too much to have you help me identify the parts to order?
Its to bad we don't have a chat room were we can talk live to help , I am in canada ont send me your ph# in a private message I will call you and try to help you I repair the machine here up to you

[CNC Carver]

MWM-A2073 at about $6.00 a pop from LHR. Pad your order with brushes and other wear parts as shipping is $25 for any order
Inner Bearings 685ZZ lots of places check ebay.
http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/170/5x11x5-Metal-685ZZ-bearings.html

[henry1]

MWM-A2073 at about $6.00 a pop from LHR. Pad your order with brushes and other wear parts as shipping is $25 for any order
Inner Bearings 685ZZ lots of places check ebay.
http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/170/5x11x5-Metal-685ZZ-bearings.html
Is that what they charge now it was 12.50 when did they raise there price

[CNC Carver]

I thought I read that on some resent posts. I could be wrong on the shipping.

[CNC Carver]

I was wrong here is a quote from Connie on shipping costs from last week. Minimum is $12 to continental US, I guess $25 to Hawaii, $45 to Canada? And not sure about Alaska.

[bergerud]

OK, I tested the gear by prying with finger between the brass gear and the big white gear and trying to get it to slip and I couldn't. I also inspected the teeth with a magnifying glass and don't see any sign of wear like if it slipped. I took it apart and there was very little dust behind the gear and I measured the shaft. There is a small indentation right next to the gear that measured 4.8mm. Up the shaft just a touch, but out of the indentation, it measures 4.9mm and at the top it measures 4.95mm. I attached a picture to show the indentation I am speaking of.

Regarding the truck moving across the rail. It moves with very little effort, but there is a little bit of resistance, I'm not sure how to judge if it's OK.

It looks like the shaft has been slipping in the bearing and that is not good. If the bearing seems alright, I would put it back together, adjust the motor gear closer to the white gear and give it a try. You need to replace these parts soon, but, more important is to know if this is the source of your problem. I think it is either the belt or the gears which is slipping. If it is the gears, tightening them up will temporarily solve the problem and keep you running until parts come.

[Shacky]

I'm working on putting together an order now. Having a hard time finding MWM A 2073 on their web site. I may have to call, I guess. I can order the cheaper bearings from anywhere and the outer ring that rides the rail changes out?

[CNC Carver]

A quick call and I'm sure they will be happy to send one out to you. Hope it works when you get it back together.

[Shacky]

OK, I ordered the shaft and bearings. Hopefully, they will be here in a few days. The fellow at Carvewright told me they do not sell the bearing in the motorpack seperately.

[ktjwilliams]

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-Radial-Ball-Bearings-cln-6200-Series/Categories

http://www.gizmoszone.com/shopping/agora.cgi?product=Spur_gear;ppinc=1a

[unitedcases]

Can you elaborate on those links. When you click on them they show a ton of different part numbers.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Shacky]

I order these:http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bear...-bearings.html (http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/170/5x11x5-Metal-685ZZ-bearings.html) Ok, I hope.

I assumed the gear and shaft come as together, right?



http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/

http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-Radial-Ball-Bearings-cln-6200-Series/Categories

http://www.gizmoszone.com/shopping/agora.cgi?product=Spur_gear;ppinc=1a

[badbert]

Ok I am going to poke my nose in here. Having an Automotive background. When ever I was stumped on a problem. Some one would walk up and ask, "did you check the air pressure in the spare tire?!"
SO I am going to ask, "How many hours does the cut motor have on it? And when was the last time you checked the brushes?" My concern is EMI. If one of the brushes is about to fail, it could be creating an Arc. Having worn out a few dozen brushes in the last couple of months... (long story) As the brushes started failing, I would get strange errors. In your second video, the Truck jumps and crashes at almost the instant the cut motor became loaded. The sudden movement does not look like a normal movement. Ok, carry on! Just remember we're all pulling for you here!

[badbert]

I order these:http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bear...-bearings.html (http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/170/5x11x5-Metal-685ZZ-bearings.html) Ok, I hope.

I assumed the gear and shaft come as together, right?

Yep those are the right bearings. And yes the gear/shaft comes as one piece.

[Shacky]

Thanks. I sure have been getting to know my machine better these last few days.


Yep those are the right bearings. And yes the gear/shaft comes as one piece.

[unitedcases]

The first link I get, that's the y bearings. But the other two links for the spur gear and the radial bearing is what I was talking about.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[ktjwilliams]

The top 2 links are bearings.. Since I have made several of my own spindles using ER11 and 20's I keep bearings on hand cause once I put em on a spindle I leave em on,, except for the top which must be removed in order to swap out spindles but that bearing will stay with that spindle... As far as part numbers,, The top Bearing is a 6000,, I've used 6000 ZZ and 6000 RRS, the bottom bearing is 6002,, I've also used the 6002 ZZ and the RRS,, these all seem to work fine... The smaller bearings for the gear spindle is 5x11x5, I've also used the 5x11x4 and used a washer to make it 5.. These small bearings are available at most hobby shops as they are a popular size in the RC world.. That last link with the plastic gears... I have not tried any of them yet so I can offer no help there.. Once I do I will post the results.. with this item it would be a matter of size and number of teeth... I have thought of using a brass gear but decided not to.. I would prefer that I break a plastic gear then cause damage to the servo.. The plastic seems to be a sacrificial piece to save the servo.. It's early so I hope this make sense.. After I finish my coffee and read this im sure I'll read this and say WHAT !!!!


Can you elaborate on those links. When you click on them they show a ton of different part numbers.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[unitedcases]

That last link is very beneficial. I wonder too about the size and how to make those work but the price is nice and you could easily keep a few on hand with not much invested. Thanks for the clarification.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Digitalwoodshop]

The question about the Video and the head jumping... You must know that the Y lost it's home and normally the cut would have started on the BIT PLATE side of the BOARD.... BUT if you look, it starts CUTTING 1/4 of the way from the Keyboard side of the board and the machine THINKS it is starting on the right side of the board... So when it CRASHES into the Keypad Side of the machine.... It's not pretty... Like US walking into a CLOSED Sliding Glass Door...

And a SUGGESTION to LHR.... YOU did GREAT selling US the Flex LUBE... NOW we need a 250 Hour BEARING KIT... Roller Rail Bearings and inner Gear Box Bearings..... OR at least start selling the inner Gear Box Bearings..... WE NEED THEM... WHY not make it simple for the guys that don't want to buy on line....

AL

[Shacky]

Al, I ordered the bearings for the truck and figured while I was at it, I would replace all 8 on the truck. I ordered the shaft with the big white gear. Is there another part you would recommend I acquire?


The question about the Video and the head jumping... You must know that the Y lost it's home and normally the cut would have started on the BIT PLATE side of the BOARD.... BUT if you look, it starts CUTTING 1/4 of the way from the Keyboard side of the board and the machine THINKS it is starting on the right side of the board... So when it CRASHES into the Keypad Side of the machine.... It's not pretty... Like US walking into a CLOSED Sliding Glass Door...

And a SUGGESTION to LHR.... YOU did GREAT selling US the Flex LUBE... NOW we need a 250 Hour BEARING KIT... Roller Rail Bearings and inner Gear Box Bearings..... OR at least start selling the inner Gear Box Bearings..... WE NEED THEM... WHY not make it simple for the guys that don't want to buy on line....

AL

[Digitalwoodshop]

Everyone should have a extra FSC Cable or the big flat cable for the Z. I consider it a Consumable as the thin copper coated with plastic on both sides bends and bends... Eventually the copper wire snaps like bending a copper wire in your hand over and over. So having 2 added to the order would be good to save on Shipping... Next is to have a extra Board Sensor and a X Plastic Gear for when you get a JAM. The amount and TIME you save on Shipping is worth it...


Where the FLEX is moving it is important to not have any SHARP Bends, that is where it will fail... Flat Gentle Bends last longer...:twisted:

Good Luck,


AL

[badbert]

That last link is very beneficial. I wonder too about the size and how to make those work but the price is nice and you could easily keep a few on hand with not much invested. Thanks for the clarification.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2 I thought this was a good a place as any to post this. The shaft and gear separate very easily. deep socket, pin punch. Not that I think LHR's price of $6, is anything less than a bargain. But in my case, I had two bad gears. One with a bad gear. One with a bad shaft. This is convenient because because the Z usually chips a gear. And the Y usually wears out the shaft. SO when you do your 250 hour maintenance, and replace the gears and bearings. Combine the two old gears, and you will have a good backup!!

Notice the black circle on the clear gasket? That's what everything inside the machine looks like, when you go through a set of brushes in an hour!! On the plus side it is carbon-graphite. Which is an excellent dry lubricant! When life gives you lemons, make lemonade!

[bergerud]

Great post. Others have said they broke the gear trying to get the shaft out. I have not yet tried, but, now I will.

I have an idea to put bigger bearings in the gear itself and have a larger shaft fixed to the casing. I was held back thinking that the plastic gear could be molded onto the shaft and be too hard to remove. After your post I will take another look at it. Good one.

[henry1]

Have to agree with bergerud a good one I didn't think it could be done , got me thinking also being a millwright and teaching it I am definitly going to look in to it

[Digitalwoodshop]

That is Interesting... With that thought in mind, a LONGER shaft could be made as well as a longer Roller Bearing Y Gear Box Bearing that would be a long term fix... Imagine a 1 inch long roller bearing rather than 10 mm of bearing surface.... Calling RON....

A ROCK Y Gear Box.... :) The next big thing from folks at Rjustice dot com... :) We put the IN in Innovation....

AL

[bergerud]

With my idea, you could even use the same bearings. The important thing is to get a bearing near that belt. The design as is has the belt pulling on one the end of the shaft while the bearings are on the other end. It is this torque is that kills the bearings. The design also makes it difficult to adjust the gear clearance. As the bearings wear out, the big gear is pulled by the belt into the motor gear. Not so good for the front motor bearing either.

I would simply bore out the plastic gear to hold a bearing in each end and make a shaft which fits in where the old bearings were. I am going to get on it.

Thanks again for the tip badbert!

[badbert]

Yes, I agree the cantilevered load on those bearings is a design failure. Bearings in the gear would be the way to go!

[Digitalwoodshop]

Since the Shaft is able to be removed... IT could be removed and machined to accept a Threaded Insert Stud that a additional bearings could be placed along with a Support Arm to support the open end....

AL

[bergerud]

I was thinking the same but there may not be much if any room for it when the carriage comes in front.

[Shacky]

My parts came today and I installed the new big white gear and shaft in the y motor pack. It was quite easy. I removed the y-truck and inspected the bearings. I cleaned and lubricated them and they all seemed to spin easily and not have any play in them so I let them be. I reinstalled everything and the only thing I wasnt sure on was how tight to adjust the bearings on the rail. I was concerned that too tight would create unnecessary resistance and too loose, well, would be too loose. So, I tightend them until there was just the smallest amount of play on the track but not so tight as to bind. I ran user tests to see how it looks and I am concerned about the noise when the y truck nears the keypad. I have uploaded a video to demonstrate. Please check it out and give me some feedback. Thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuxlImSrySk

[bergerud]

Mine make noises like that too. It comes from the motor and sounds like some kind of feed back control thing. The motor wants to go fast but the computer makes it go slow. The noise will change if you pull or push the truck.

As for the roller tightness, I tighten mine so that I can just barely make them slip when I turn them by hand (with my finger and thumb).

[dcalvin4]

Shacky saw the vidio and noticed the speed and it just seemed soo slow moving,, Mine goes in the Y direction really fast if this can help solve the mystery
denny
never mind as i saw the vidio again an noticed you are in ''TEST'' mode

[Shacky]

Ok, I guess I'll tighten up the bearings a bit, per bergerud, and try a test carve tomorrow

[Shacky]

Still having problems. I moved on to a new carve. I am trying a simple address sign that I have done before. Partly, because I need a new one and partly as a test. I am still having the machine stop on a regular basis and get the message to clean the y rail. I move the truck a bit and hit enter and it works again for a while. I might be able to get through the whole carve this way. In any case, I replaced the big white gear in the y motor pack, I completely cleaned and oiled the entire machine. I removed the truck and cleaned and oiled the bearings, they seem to spin free and have no play in them. I inspected and adjusted the belts. Not sure what to do next.

[henry1]

You could have dust in the motor in the back were the incoder is running that would give you a problem

[Shacky]

You could have dust in the motor in the back were the incoder is running that would give you a problem

I cleaned that out too. It was immaculate when I opened it. (I think there is a picture earlier in the thread of it.) But, I cleaned the disk with a alcohol wipe I use on my glasses. So, I don't really think that's it. I thought the truck roller bearings were fine, but maybe I should figure out how to do that and just replace them all?

[badbert]

Did you replace the bearings for the Y gear? That is what usually fails. I always replace the gear (shaft wears) and the bearings as a set. And did you ever reply to how many hours are on the cut motor. And have you changed the brushes.

[bergerud]

You have to look for something that is restricting the y movement. It may be something you adjusted too tight. The rollers or the y gears. The roller bearings might be "lumpy" with dust or rust in them. The belt idler may have a bad bushing. Keep looking!

[Shacky]

I guess I could change the bearings on the truck. I may be a bit slow, but I really did not get how they were to be swapped out. Can someone help me out?

[bergerud]

I guess I could change the bearings on the truck. I may be a bit slow, but I really did not get how they were to be swapped out. Can someone help me out?

You may not really need to replace them all. First you have to check them out. Here is the CW tech document you should read:


http://www.carvewright.com/assets/service/Service_instructions/CarveWright_service_replace_y-truck.pdf

[badbert]

The Y truck is very easy to diagnose. But I do not want to confuse the issue here. You are talking about the roller bearings for the truck. I was talking about the tiny little bearings for the gear you replaced. The gear has a shaft. The hole that shaft inserts in, is actually two tiny bearings.

Here is the diagnostic procedure for the Y mechanism.
1. With the machine unplugged, try and move the Y truck all the way from side to side. It should require a small amount of effort, to move. It should also move smoothly without any grinding or rough spots.

2. If you can't move the truck, or if it is hard to move, then you need to start the process of elimination. Remove the Y-motor. But leave the y-truck and belt in place. Does the truck move smoothly and alot easier now. If it does, then the problem is in the Y drive mechanism. Check the idler pulley first it should spin freely, but not wobble. If it does then the problem is in the Y motor and gearbox. The gear should spin smoothly and you should not be able to Wobble the gear. It should spin freely and not move. If it does move then you need to change those little bearings, behind that gear.

3. If after removing the Y motor. The truck is still hard to move, then the problem is in the truck roller bearings, or rails.

Now, why do I keep asking you if you changed the brushes and how many hours are on the cut motor. The brushes contact the rotor to energize the magnetic field that makes it spin. They are made from a soft material with great lubrication qualities, graphite. But the leads that attach the brushes are made from copper. And the spring that holds the brushes against the rotor are made of steel. If either the copper or the steel contact the rotor, it will damage it. So to prevent this from happening. The copper wires are designed short. This way the brushes contact the rotor, but when they wear to the limit of the wires, a gap is created. This means that the electricity, necessary to make the motor spin, has to jump a gap, creating a spark. Very similar to a spark plug. This does two things. In order to jump the gap, amperage increases. This draws amperage away from the other components. The second thing it does, is create a collapsing magnetic field. Which becomes an erroneous signal, know as EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference). EMI is the enemy to computers and computer controls.
My theory is that some errors are just plain false. Instead of the low voltage signal being sent to the computer, it receives EMI and throws up an error.

I hope this helps in some way. And please understand that we all feel your frustration. We have all been there. And we really do want to help you get up and running.

[Shacky]

Thanks, I have always appreciated the fine folks on this forum. I have never seen another where people are so willing to help. Regarding the bearings in the y truck that the gear/shaft go into. When I ordered the gear from CW I was told they do not sell those separately. Was I misinformed? Or is there another source? Regarding the movement of the truck on the rail. It really does seem ok to me. It's smooth and consistent. But, I am ready to change the bearings out with some direction. I have never replaced the brushes in the motor and I have 265 hours on the cut motor.

[badbert]

That would be the exact scenario I mentioned. Those brushes seldom last 300 hours. And the bearings aren't serviced by LHR. But you can buy them here. This link is the bearings you need.

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/170/5x11x5-Metal-685ZZ-bearings.html

There are two in the Y and two in the Z. At $1 a piece I ordered a dozen. But you definitely need to change your brushes.

[Shacky]

I already have those bearings in my possession. Is there a tutorial or something around on replacing them? I haven't found anything. Also, I thought you were also recommending that I replace the small bearings that the shaft and gear in the y motor pack go into. Did I mis-understand? Finally ,I suppose I should replace the brushes in both the y motor and the z motor. That's a new one on me too. Is there a tutorial? Thanks again.

[badbert]

Now I am confused. We are talking about the same thing. The hole you stuck the gear shaft in, is actually two little bearings. There are two bearings for the Y gear and two bearings for the Z gear. There are no brushes in the Z and Y motor. Changing the cut motor brushes is recommended at 250 hour maintenance.

The bearings are very easy to remove. Just remove the gear and shaft. I insert just the tip of the shaft in each bearing and wiggle them out.

[Shacky]

Ahhhh, ok. I'm an idiot. I thought those bearing were for the truck rollers and somehow I had to disassemble them to put these in. So, I'm clear on where these go and how to do it. But, how do you replace the bearings on the truck that actually ride along the rail?

EDIT, Ok I read the post below from Bergerud and read the PDF from CW that he linked to. I'm thinking my next step is to replace the brushes and the bearing in the y motor pack and see how that pans out. Do the Y-Truck roller bearing often go bad?

[badbert]

I changed mine out at 300 hours. Only because I had brand new ones. But the originals were still fine. I guess like everything else, there are many factors that could effect their lifespan. Humidity, temperature, material carved, maintenance, dust collection.

[Shacky]

Brushes are ordered along with new roller bearings to have on hand in case I need them. This whole thing started when I was working on this project. I have finally finished it and thought I would post a before and after picture of the door to our gazebo.60585

[unitedcases]

Most people stick to the 250hr rule. Change brushes and y motor bearings. I personally shoot for 200 that way I have them done by 250. That's just me. My machine runs pretty hard and I always find that at 200 I am swamped and just don't want to do it. Kind of like setting your alarm for 630 when you really want to be up at 7. I also lube really well and just generally overhaul the machine. About every week I oil the carriage bearings and always clean the bit after every carve. No matter how long it is. I also use dry lube on the rails and when the bit plate gets fussy I shoot with just a bit of bicycle chain wax. So in other words calendar time wise I seem to do a light oiling on Sundays and about every 7 weeks I do my 200 hr. You will find that many people have different times and methods but once you get your personal timeline down your machine will run better than your car.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[badbert]

With my idea, you could even use the same bearings. The important thing is to get a bearing near that belt. The design as is has the belt pulling on one the end of the shaft while the bearings are on the other end. It is this torque is that kills the bearings. The design also makes it difficult to adjust the gear clearance. As the bearings wear out, the big gear is pulled by the belt into the motor gear. Not so good for the front motor bearing either.

I would simply bore out the plastic gear to hold a bearing in each end and make a shaft which fits in where the old bearings were. I am going to get on it.

Thanks again for the tip badbert! bergerud I had another thought on this subject. I am going to order some 5 x 11 x 4 bearings. And see if I can modify the housing to accept 3 of the 5 x 11 x 4 bearings in place of the 2 5 x 11 x 5. I think the addition of the third bearing. Would also be a way to prolong the life of the bearings. What are your thoughts?

[bergerud]

More bearings can only help. I have ordered a few sets of metric bearings to try and put the bearings in the gear. (I wish I had an old gear to experiment with.) I am going to put two small bearings side by side right in the belt sprocket and a bigger bearing in the center of the big gear. The shaft will be made to bolt in where the old bearings were.

Have you thought of needle bearings? They are what should have been used to handle the load in the first place.

[badbert]

I think I have a chipped tooth, worn shaft gear around here somewhere... PM me an address and I'll snail mail it to you!

[ktjwilliams]

some interesting ideas guyz... But Bert I don't think there would be a way to modify to accept 3 bearings and be able to keep things in place... I used those smaller bearings and used some exact sized home made washers to make up the difference... I thought the washers would give more hold and less wear on shaft.. So far So good.. been almost a year ...

[Digitalwoodshop]

After giving this some thought.... Simply replacing the bearings at about 250 will work for me... Replace them before they fail... Re Engineering the Gearbox is a fun bunch of posts but if it really works as designed but needs a preventive maintenance to keep it in top shape... That's the best way for now.


But... IF someone comes out with a Re Engineered Version that when purchased will just slap in as a standard replacement part... I would invest in 4....


AL

[Shacky]

UPDATE-PROBLEM PERSISTS
I replaced the bearings in the y motor housing. (I had previously replaced the gear.) Then I replaced the cut motor brushes and loaded up a project. I am posting a photo and the .mpc's. First off, the machine made a carve pass and I heard a couple clicks and it stopped and said "clean the rails." I went out and bought a mechanics stethoscope so that when I restarted it, I would be able to pinpoint where that clicking was coming from. I moved the truck a bit and thought I could feel and hear one more click. Well, it didn't fault, it just proceeded to do the carving but the rectangle it was carving was smaller than the first carved line, but was the right size. It completed the carving bit part of the job, the next bit was to be the round over for the edge. Note that I messed up and put in the 90 degree bit (honestly have never done that before). As I started the machine with the router bit in, the truck went all the way to the keypad side and stopped and said "y axis error-press stop". So, I created a fix pattern to just do the edge and the text. I let it start off on the edge and it was obvious the rectangle outline was off. I let it go around one and a half times and halted the job.

I did notice that when I use the sensor test and pull the truck ALL the way to the keypad side, I am getting -.119. I wasn't sure how big a deal that would be. Again, I confirmed that the belt looks good and I had adjusted it when I reassembled it. The truck seems to travel the rail smoothly and I do not know for sure what the clicking was as it didn't do it again. Not sure what to do next.

[Digitalwoodshop]

When you first turn the machine on and select a project, the Z will go up and bump into the top mechanical stop and that will be 0000 home position. Then it moves to the left to the keypad and bumps into the keypad. That is 0000 home position for the Y.

Know that when you first heard the clicking in the Y "ALL WAS LOST AT THAT MOMENT" and the Y was now off in some direction from Y HOME... Even if the machine faults and gives you the Clean Rails, after the CLICK your project is toast... UNLESS you turn the power OFF and Back ON the machine will NOT Home Again and get a correct Home. So by not turning off the machine the picture shows the results as a offset carve.

So you have replaced the Big Gear, Bearings, in the Y Motor and you are still getting the clicking. It could be the actual rubber belt slipping but I doubt it.... IF it were me..... I would remove the Y Motor and Gearbox again. Remove the clear plastic cover, the C Clip on the big gear and remove it. I would then loosen the 2 screws that hold the Gear Box Frame to the motor and adjust it SLIGHTLY close to the Shaft to let the big plastic gear MESH tighter. You can get it TOO TIGHT so careful... It is a balance between Binding and TOO LOOSE.... MY Guess is that it is TOO LOOSE...... This lets the SERVO MOTOR Splined Shaft SLIP in the mesh to the plastic gear.

See OVAL HOLES to allow for Adjustment.

AL

[bergerud]

It is either the gear as Al says or the belt. One of the two. When the gear slips it is a small change in y whereas when the belt slips it is a bigger change in y. I would tend to go with the belt judging from the amount of the offset in y. Why not do a test. Mark the y pulley and belt with a felt pen. Then do a test carve which starts with a harsh vertical plunge. (1/2" deep pocket for example.) If this gets it to click again, you can check the marks. If the marks still line up, it must be the gear, if the marks have moved it is the belt. (I doubt whether you will be able to tell with the stethoscope since the source of the sounds are so close together.)

(Also mark the belt somewhere else when the carriage is all the way to one side in case the belt is slipping where it is clamped to the carriage.)

[badbert]

One other thing to check. Make sure the Y Drive mounting screws are seated in the slots all the way.

[Shacky]

Wow, thanks for all the great suggestions. I will get on it tomorrow. I don't think I paid that much attention to the 2 screws that hold the Gear Box Frame to the motor, so an adjustment there makes sense. I think I'll mark the belt and the gear with a white marker, too.

I'll be back with results!! Thanks, again!

[Shacky]

I disassembled the y motor pack but mine seems different. I do not see the ability to make an adjustment between the two gears. (Pictures below) Do you think I should drill out the holes to be a bit oblong so I can made an adjustment?

[bergerud]

That is strange. How well do the gears mesh? They should mesh so that there is a very small clearance.

Edit: did you eliminate the belt as the problem?

[Shacky]

My plan was to make the adjustment, put it back together and mark the gear and belt. Then run a test project. So, no, I didn't yet eliminate the belt possibility. The gears mesh well but could perhaps be a little tighter? I just went and took a picture and , actually, even if I opened up the holes a little bit, the metal gear and bearing are stationary in the housing, but I suppose the gear would get a bit closer if I opened both holes on opposite sides and pivoted it down a smidge.

EDIT: After looking at the pictures, I don't see how opening the holes will allow for any adjustment at all. The center metal gear is not going to allow for any movement.



That is strange. How well do the gears mesh? They should mesh so that there is a very small clearance.

Edit: did you eliminate the belt as the problem?

[bergerud]

If there is little play between the teeth, it does not look like the gears could be slipping. (If there is some play, check the motor bushing behind the brass gear. Any play in the motor shaft?) The x gear drive is like this. No room for adjustment. Just for fun, why not mark the gears. A little scratch on a brass tooth and a mark on the plastic gear. Then if all else fails and it is not the belt, you will be able to see if the gears really are slipping.

[Shacky]

Good idea. I'll mark them before I reassemble it. I checked the motor shaft and I'm not feeling any play in it. I think the gears mesh well but they could probably go a smidge closer. Any thoughts on if they are snug enough based on the photos?


If there is little play between the teeth, it does not look like the gears could be slipping. (If there is some play, check the motor bushing behind the brass gear. Any play in the motor shaft?) The x gear drive is like this. No room for adjustment. Just for fun, why not mark the gears. A little scratch on a brass tooth and a mark on the plastic gear. Then if all else fails and it is not the belt, you will be able to see if the gears really are slipping.

[bergerud]

I really cannot tell from the photos how well they mesh. I would just tweak the big gear back and forth to feel the backlash. I suspect that if the bearings in the motor and casing are good then the gears can not slip. I would say it's back to the belt.

[Shacky]

I really cannot tell from the photos how well they mesh. I would just tweak the big gear back and forth to feel the backlash. I suspect that if the bearings in the motor and casing are good then the gears can not slip. I would say it's back to the belt.

I marked the gears in the y motor pack and the belt/gear. Tommorow I will run a project and see what happens. Should at least be able to narrow it down to one or the other IF I get a click. In the past, I often just got the message that the rails need to be cleaned.

Also, I turned on the machine, loaded a project and a board and let it hone until it asked for a bit. I then cancelled the project and checked the Y sensor. It still says -119 when it is all the way to the keypad. I thought it would reset at 0 every time you turned it on a loaded a new project?

[bergerud]

I tried one of my machines and the y 0 is not against the wall. It is a little way away from the left side. So that seems normal (-121 for mine).
I hope this is a stupid question, but, you did tighten that little screw that locks the position of the belt tightener on the right - right?

[Shacky]

I tried one of my machines and the y 0 is not against the wall. It is a little way away from the left side. So that seems normal (-121 for mine).
I hope this is a stupid question, but, you did tighten that little screw that locks the position of the belt tightener on the right - right?

I am reassured on the y truck position, thanks. When I removed the y motor pack, I loosened the belt adjustment screw, after I put the motor pack back in place, I tightened the screw. So, yes I did tighten it up. Thanks for checking, though. I am quite capable of missing things.

[liquidguitars]

Wow, thanks for all the great suggestions. I will get on it tomorrow. I don't think I paid that much attention to the 2 screws that hold the Gear Box Frame to the motor, so an adjustment there makes sense. I think I'll mark the belt and the gear with a white marker, too.

I'll be back with results!! Thanks, again!

A loose y gearbox will make the clicking sound and also check the z gearbox, a loose conection will give you the void in z as to the photo.

[Digitalwoodshop]

WOW.... Great Update... My pictures are of a "A" 2007 Gearbox. Looks like that has been a upgrade made by LHR over time that looks GOOD. One last thing I would do is replace the inner gearbox bearings with a different lot or different vendor... I remember someone posted on eBay about getting undersized bearings... THAT could be the problem undersize NEW bearings....:shock:
AL

[liquidguitars]

I would just tweak the big gear back and forth to feel the backlash

The two small screws let you move the gear meshing a tad before you tighten the box.



I suspect that if the bearings in the motor and casing are good then the gears can not slip. I would say it's back to the belt.

I think if the black small screws are loose the gear can slip and rattle.

[bergerud]

The two small screws let you move the gear meshing a tad before you tighten the box.



I think if the black small screws are loose the gear can slip and rattle.

Look at the pictures LG. The gearbox has changed. The meshing is not adjustable.

[liquidguitars]

Look at the pictures LG. The gearbox has changed. The meshing is not adjustable.

I replace a few, you can adjust it 1/32 or so to mesh the gears.

[liquidguitars]

Ohh, I see it now, I guess the holes where to big overall in the old casting. I think you don't need a lot of adjustment as normaly the gears fit well...

[Shacky]

Good news. I ran my first project without an error in a long time. No Y axis or clean rails messages at all. Hopefully, it's not a fluke. Bad news. If you look at the project file, the carve region is suppose to be 16.25", but it is actually just under 16" completed. Whats that about? I checked the back and you can see the tracking roller trail all along the tape and there were no other errors. Even the height of the carve region is correct. Good news is that since the carve region is for tera cota tiles, I was able to sand the edges and make them fit. But, it could be a problem on future projects.

I did not and never "scale" the project. Also, looking at the pictures, I'm thinking it sort of compressed the whole project lenghthwise. I need to go back a do some more measuring. One other thing, when I loaded up the project, the machine gave me a message that the 1/4" roundover would have trouble. I continued and it seemed to work just fine. Doubt that would be a factor, but just in case.

Regarding the adjustment in the y truck housing. There is none. Forget about the two screws, the gear comes through the metal plate snugly, so there is no possibility of adjusting the distance between the two gears.

[bergerud]

Simply measure a board and see if the machine gets the x length right. Were you under the rollers for the whole operation?

[badbert]

I had this problem, after I replaced the O-ring on the brass roller. The machine was calibrated for no O-ring. Do what bergerud said. And if the measurement is off. Remove the O-ring and try again.

[Shacky]

Will do. And, yes, the project was under the rollers the whole time. Thanks! Be back tomorrow with results.

[Shacky]

Ok, I measured this board at 18 1/4. The machine measured it as 18 3/4. I notice now that the O ring is missing. (It's been one thing after another...) I don't have a spare but I saw on a post that I can just go to my Ace Hardware and get a 7/16" replacement?

[bergerud]

I do not believe that the missing O ring is why the x measures too long. The O ring compresses to the same radius as the brass and does not change the measurement. (If the O ring is too thick it can change the radius and measure too short so make sure you buy the right size.)

I would say that you need to do an x calibration but I think 1/2" over 18" is too far off.

According to my formula: new x number = old x number*(1+(measured x - actual x)/actual ), you would need to change the ~890 number by about 24. I believe this will give you an out of range error. Give it a try and see what happens.

I think there is something wrong with the board tracking sensor.

[CNC Carver]

Looking at the picture it looks like the roller is wedged into the sandpaper belt. Should only contact the board to turn it. Could just be the angle of the photo.

[Shacky]

I adjusted the x offset from 889 to 901 and it is now measuring boards correctly. I'm going to try another carve.

[bergerud]

Strange that such a small tweak made up for 1/2" but if it works, that is great.

[Shacky]

Ran my second project and it worked just fine. Even the length seems correct now. I'd like to think it's fixed but I don't want to jinx myself.

[Shacky]

Looking at the picture it looks like the roller is wedged into the sandpaper belt. Should only contact the board to turn it. Could just be the angle of the photo.

It was just the picture angle. The brass roller is not touching the sandpaper belt. But, thanks for mentioning it.