POLL to see how many users would like to see direct import of SVG for Line-Art

[Ton80]

I am wondering how many users are interested in CW developing a plug-in to import vector art so it carves with all the flourishes and embellishments of the original art.. At the moment, the only way to make this happen is to spend around $200 on font editing software so you can bring the artwork into designer via the CenterLine Plug-in ($100).

I think I was told that the new software, while it will allow you to trace artwork inside of Designer, it limits you to using the depth profiles of designer. That doesn't cut it if you want to replicate real artwork.

The DXF importer limits you in the same way.

Just about 90% of the work I do with my machine is engraving line-art images and I have to bring everything in via the Centerline Plug-in after creating a font glyph of the image. Aren't there any other users that would like to urge CW to *finally* give us a plug-in to import vector art so it can be cut as a V-carve with all depth and profiles determined by the artwork and not the limited set of profiles provided?

I can't be alone in this desire :roll: ???



As far as the actual format used, that is not the important issue. I originally used SVG because I thought that was the up and coming standard that would be adopted. The only thing that is important here is that it is a vector format that is brought into Designer as closed vectors that can drive a Vcarve without the need for Fonts or assigning profiles that limit artistic expression. If you don't have a pro-level software package you might not be able to work with proprietary file formats so I hope that is considered if this gains steam and becomes something CW considers. As Mike Tyler put it, "Artistic" vector files is what I think this poll is addressing.

[mikemi]

Ton80,

I would be very interested in such a plug-in. I have a lot of line art that I would like to be able to convert to such a form. So count me in.

Mike

[brdad]

I would go for this as well. I'd even pay a few bucks for it (but preferably not $199). I trace and convert many of my images to fonts, the latter of which does not always work with my software, generally in the case of detailed images.

[mtylerfl]

Howdy,

I don't have an opinion one way or another whether Designer supported the SVG format...but I often wish it supported EPS (in addition to DXF). EPS is a graphic artist "standard"...DXF is a CAD design "standard". I suppose SVG could be useful for some folks, though.

But, I don't think that's the core issue. V-Carving is driven by vectors, regardless what format they were in prior to importing into Designer. So, at the moment the CW cannot use plain vectors for more or less "automated" V-carving tasks. As you mentioned, creating a "font" from a set of closed vectors will allow the CW to do V-Carving for now, but that's not always practical nor do many folks understand how to do that. Besides that, there is currently no way to set a "flat" depth within a wider set of closed vectors for V-Carving when it is required.

I fully expect in a future, next-generation/more advanced version of Designer, that we will have V-Carving capability and much more. We will just have to wait and see!

[Ton80]

Howdy,

I don't have an opinion one way or another whether Designer supported the SVG format...but I often wish it supported EPS (in addition to DXF). EPS is a graphic artist "standard"...DXF is a CAD design "standard". I suppose SVG could be useful for some folks, though.

But, I don't think that's the core issue. V-Carving is driven by vectors, regardless what format they were in prior to importing into Designer. So, at the moment the CW cannot use plain vectors for more or less "automated" V-carving tasks. As you mentioned, creating a "font" from a set of closed vectors will allow the CW to do V-Carving for now, but that's not always practical nor do many folks understand how to do that. Besides that, there is currently no way to set a "flat" depth within a wider set of closed vectors for V-Carving when it is required.

I fully expect in a future, next-generation/more advanced version of Designer, that we will have V-Carving capability and much more. We will just have to wait and see!

I hope you are right about having the ability to perform V-carving without using the Font loop-hole ;)

As long as the file import is something that is not proprietary to one software package but is an openly supported format ( which is why I chose SVG ) it really doesn't matter to me. I just want the ability to import my vector based line-art into designer without having to jump through hoops so I can make a font glyph with the image. This obviously is not an ideal way to bring in large complicated images which are primarily the type I work with.

[lynnfrwd]

Poll feature in software. Thought this might help...

[Ton80]

Awesome!! Thanks for setting up the poll feature ;)

[eelamb]

I would say all the vector formats, not just one, such as eps, svg, ai.

[mtylerfl]

I would say all the vector formats, not just one, such as eps, svg, ai.

That would be nice, but EPS being the standard that it is, is one that any capable vector drawing program can export (CorelDraw, Adobe Illustrator, InkScape, Aspire, ArtCAM, VCarve Pro, etc., etc.) I'm not sure that all CAD programs can export to EPS, but pretty much all "artistic" vector drawing programs can!

I found that exporting to DXF from CorelDRAW works best for Designer if I choose AutoCAD2004 DXF format. I also find that exporting as DXF from Aspire is the R12 format which doesn't always "play nice" for Designer. In that case, I export to EPS from Aspire, then import that into CorelDRAW, then export from Corel as the 2004 DXF. Designer doesn't have any issues then. Would be wonderful to just be able to import EPS directly into Designer. The EPS format produces much cleaner vectors than DXF...less nodes on curvy stuff, keeps true circles, and so on.

[andes]

I would also like to be able to import all vector formats.

[Ton80]

*bump for peeps that might have missed this over the weekend. ;)

[eastcutty]

I'm not gonna pretend to understand the necessities of all the file-conversions, etc explained in the previous posts, but I have a tip that may be of some value: I use GIMP 2.8 (formerly 2.0, which I was more used to) for all of my graphix needs, many of which replace (sorry, LHR) CW's proprietary software. It's free, and has a tremendous range of capabilities! One of which, to get back on point, is that if file conversion is a major portion of the problem, GIMP can both 'import' and 'export as' all kinds of less-than-usual file types. It's worth a look, even if it doesn't address the issue here. I find it handy as all get-out. Hope this helps.

[Ton80]

eastcutty,

It's not so much about file conversions. I made a statement about using .SVG format but really, it's just direct import of vector files that many of us would like to see. What that file format is doesn't really matter as long as it is a standard that the majority of both commercial and FREE software can access and work with.

I'm like you, I use GIMP and I also use INKSCAPE which is to Illustrator what GIMP is to Photoshop. The only thing that your suggestions won't help with is the lack of ability to bring in a vector based drawing and running a Vcarve on the CW machine.

The purpose of my original post was not looking for file conversion methods but a way to work with a vector file format that, at the moment, is not supported by CW's Designer regardless of how many ways you convert a file using something like GIMP.

The mentioning of different file formats maybe started to confuse what the poll is actually about ;)

[PCent]

Ton80 - i also would like to import vector art from illustrator. I want to typeset everything exactly how i want it in a program that i use regularly then export it to the carvewright for percise v-cutting. I (incorrectly) assumed before buying the machine this would be simple.

In the meantime, ton80 - what tools do you use to turn vector art into a font glyph? do you have one of those expensive font programs or is there an easier way?

[200k]

I'll put in my two cents here. I have for several projects, had the need to convert a raster file of a line drawing into a usable format that will vector carve on the CW. My method is to clean up everything in Photoshop (because I have a loooong history using PS and I am most comfortable with it), move it into Illustrator and convert it into a vector file using the Live Trace feature. From that I can export the file as a .dxf which can be imported into Designer. It is an involved process and takes a great deal of time when the original raster file is ill defined, the lines don't connect nicely, or has 128 line gradient levels in black and white. Depending upon what you start with it can take a few minutes to many hours of work to get an acceptable file worthy of cutting. But it does work. I am pretty sure you can do the same with GIMP and INKSCAPE.

I would like to hear from Jason Alexander of the Little Red Woodshop. A couple of years ago I watched him tweak the hell out of a graphic using a couple of free/cheap ($30) pieces of software, the names of which I cannot recall. I know he does this stuff but as I said I don't remember what he uses. I do know he's pretty good at it.

200k

[mtylerfl]

I didn't vote, 'cause I would like to see EPS import way more than I would want SVG at this time. However, it would be nice to have an assortment of common vector filetypes (including SVG). On a side note, I would like to see EXPORT capability as well. In other words...I want the moon!

[eelamb]

I agree with Michael if it can only be one import let it be EPS.

[Ton80]

Ton80 - i also would like to import vector art from illustrator. I want to typeset everything exactly how i want it in a program that i use regularly then export it to the carvewright for percise v-cutting. I (incorrectly) assumed before buying the machine this would be simple.

In the meantime, ton80 - what tools do you use to turn vector art into a font glyph? do you have one of those expensive font programs or is there an easier way?

I use TypeTool 3 and ScanFont 5, both from Fontlabs.com You need TT so you can open font files ( or create blanks ) and place your new font glyphs into the file. You can also edit the image with TT or even create a new glyph using the drawing tools. ScanFont is the real workhorse for me though as that is the program that will take the image I want to use and trace it into format that TypeTool imports as a glyph. It works great and is one of the best tools I have to overcome the lack of support for this type of Vcarve in Designer. Some of the images I have scanned have been fairly complicated and it has nailed it just about everytime, with little or no input from me on how it deals with the image details. You need to start with a clean, non jagged image for good results so most of the manual work required by you would be in the initial development or cleaning up of the image you want to use. If you are already starting out as vector then you should have very good results. I import into SF as .png and I am actually not sure if it will import a vector image but you can always export your vector images as a .png and it will still be very clean and provide excellent results.

The two packages together are $198.00 ( $99 each ). They make another image scanner called Sigmaker but don't bother as it is not meant to work with detailed images as I found out when I first started working with the process of placing images into fonts.

I will make a screencast of my process as soon as I find the time because it really is very simple.

[bjbethke]

I use TypeTool 3 and ScanFont 5, both from Fontlabs.com You need TT so you can open font files ( or create blanks ) and place your new font glyphs into the file. You can also edit the image with TT or even create a new glyph using the drawing tools. ScanFont is the real workhorse for me though as that is the program that will take the image I want to use and trace it into format that TypeTool imports as a glyph. It works great and is one of the best tools I have to overcome the lack of support for this type of Vcarve in Designer. Some of the images I have scanned have been fairly complicated and it has nailed it just about everytime, with little or no input from me on how it deals with the image details. You need to start with a clean, non jagged image for good results so most of the manual work required by you would be in the initial development or cleaning up of the image you want to use. If you are already starting out as vector then you should have very good results. I import into SF as .png and I am actually not sure if it will import a vector image but you can always export your vector images as a .png and it will still be very clean and provide excellent results.

The two packages together are $198.00 ( $99 each ). They make another image scanner called Sigmaker but don't bother as it is not meant to work with detailed images as I found out when I first started working with the process of placing images into fonts.

I will make a screencast of my process as soon as I find the time because it really is very simple.

Hi, I use a program called High-Logic Font Creator. It uses a Trace function to make the image a Vector with the background removed. You need to load the font folder on your computer to see the images. You can carve with CenterLine and Raster.

[Ton80]

That is a nice looking package and you can't beat the price of $80 with the trace function built in! I use a Mac and it's windows only but if someone doesn't want to spend $198 this looks like a great way to make images work with the centerline function.

[dbfletcher]

I agree with Michael if it can only be one import let it be EPS.

EPS seems to be an odd chioce "if there can be only one" to me. Since most eps files also contain raster data, which probably will just be discarded, I'd rather see just a true vector format.

[mtylerfl]

EPS seems to be an odd chioce "if there can be only one" to me. Since most eps files also contain raster data, which probably will just be discarded, I'd rather see just a true vector format.

EPS is the industry standard for professional vector drawings. EPS does not contain raster data, so I'm a little confused by that statement, to say the least. :!:

[dbfletcher]

EPS is the industry standard for professional vector drawings. EPS does not contain raster data, so I'm a little confused by that statement, to say the least. :!:

Unfortunately, that just isnt true. EPS files typically have contained raster data since the formats inception. This is exactly how it got its name "Encapsulated postscript"... it encapsulated both vector and raster data in one container file. Typically, EPS files would contain PICT raster data if created on a Macintosh and Windows EPS files contain TIFF raster data. The point of the Encapsulation was so computers could provide an adequate on screen rendering, with out processing all of the postscript data. Most EPS files I see today still contain the raster data. Just open any eps file in a text editor and you will typically find large hexidecimal blocks that are the rasterdata at the end of the postscript code.

Here is a link to one of the better definitions of EPS that I found. It does say that the raster data is optional.... but at least in my experience 90% or better of the EPS files I have worked with have always contained the raster data.

http://www-h.eng.cam.ac.uk/help/tpl/graphics/postscript.html

[mtylerfl]

Ok, you're confusing the display data with the actual EPS data - there is no correlation between the two as far as vectors are concerned. A little history...

In the early days of PostScript, there was no way to render an on-screen display of the data. For example, CorelDraw 1.0 had the feature of creating PostScript background fills, but it would simply display "PS, PS, PS..." in the background container. The only way you could actually see the PostScript was to print it out with a PostScript printer. This was in the 1980's when I first started using PostScript. My first PostScript printer cost more than my computer did. I had to have it though, because I was using music printing software that used PostScript for printed output as well as my CorelDraw which had just been released on the market.

It wasn't long before some clever programmers developed a method to display the "PostScript" data on-screen. It took the form of a psuedo-rendering of the data and conversion to pixel (raster) soley for the purpose of us humans to see it. I forget the name of the first third-party software that did that, but I owned it and used it for years. With that software, I could see my PostScript backgrounds on-screen in CorelDraw before printing out. Again, this display data has nothing to do with the actual vector data contained in a PostScript file, then or now.

Moving along a few more years, it gradually became unneccesary to use third-party programs to display PostScript data on-screen for most PostScript-based software packages.

Just to keep things simple...EPS is pure vector data...the display of that data on-screen is a "pixel/raster/placeholder" for positioning, editing and viewing by the human. That's all. The EPS vector data is not subject to the limitations of raster data...it can be resized without loss of resolution. To this day, EPS is still the preferred format for universal exchange of artistic drawings for high-end printing/printshops. This could actually change to SVG in the future, but so far SVG lags behind EPS in its popularity among most professional artists and graphic designers. Time will tell.

[mtylerfl]

Ha! It just occurs to me that probably very few people really care about (or understand) PostScript, raster rendering, and so on!

This poll began with the question whether we want to import the SVG vector format in addition to the DXF format we have now. Clearly, the answer is yes. I/we morphed the discussion into wanting other formats, as well. (During testing of the DXF Importer before it went on the market, I did express my personal strong interest in being able to import the EPS format.)

[dbfletcher]

We can let this die. I am not confused at all. All I have said is that most EPS files contain both raster and vector data. This is an absolutely true statement. And actually it is possible to have an EPS file that contains NO Vector data... just raster. (ie. if you bring a photo in to Photoshop, you can then export it as a legal EPS file, however there will be no vector data at all) I am fully aware the vector data can be resized with out loss of resolution. I never made a claim that the raster data gets used for anything other than display purposed... but that doesn't meant it isn't there either! My original post was just to say I would prefer to see a pure vector format chosen if there can be only one... we dont need or really care about the raster data included in most EPS files... it is just bloat in the file as far as im concerned.

Although I do agree that EPS is the most widely use "vector" format in use, I also believe like you that SVG will someday be top dog.

[mtylerfl]

Yes, you can convert a raster photo to an EPS...but of course, this is not what we're talking about. It's vectors, man! Pure vectors...EPS...no raster. Drawings only.

[Ton80]

So if one thing can be taken from this so far, it's definitely that a way to have designer directly work with closed vectors is an option that well over 90% of responders would like to see so we can stop importing these images via Centerline and fonts.

LHR is hopefully considering this as a lucrative feature for them and a useful one for us.

;)