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geezerwoodworker
12-28-2012, 03:55 PM
When I bought my CarveWright many years ago the Forum had page after page of members original
Patterns and Projects that they were kind enough to share with others free. It was helpful and time saving. I don,t find that now that the Forum has changed. Are members less willing to share now or is the Forum not saving them for us to quickly find them and download them?
I have saved the ones that I downloaded during that time of generous sharing. Is there a way to share
some with interested members now?

a really old geezerwoodworker

eelamb
12-28-2012, 04:25 PM
The original are still here, you were part of the way there. Under patterns, pattern sharing, scroll down to all the stars, see pattern sharing depot. Do not click it, click on the paper clip to see all the old patterns. With the new forum, notice the categories, new patterns are separated by categories. Now not all post their patterns there, would be nice if they did, but any thread that has a paperclip has images and patterns in it. Just click the paper clip.
As to the last question, about not sharing, you are right. Some members decided to take the great patterns other share and sell them on eBay, thus the lack of sharing like before, and the lack of pattern makers as in the past. They have left the forum, only a few remain. I guess as the new members become better at making patterns a new crop of pattern makers will begin sharing their patterns.

ladjr
12-28-2012, 04:31 PM
I agree with Eddie. there is still a lot of sharing here and the members are always helpful

fwharris
12-28-2012, 04:54 PM
The number one reason for the reductions of posting patterns and projects is because of a few forum members who are taking our free post sharing and selling them on ebay.

These members still exist here even though we have made many requests to have them banned. We do know who they are.............................. look up ebay seller sfsales....

bergerud
12-28-2012, 05:03 PM
I do not know if anyone else has noticed but access to the attachments and pictures on the forum is now restricted to members. We had discussions about this in the past and now it seems to have come to pass. Maybe this knowledge will help us return to the old sharing attitude.

geezerwoodworker
12-28-2012, 05:05 PM
Thanks Eddie, And Leo,
Your fast and informative responses are a breath of fresh air. I also hope the sharing will improve
as members gain more experience. Also if I can I would like to use your statement at the end of your reply. It is my feeling about shared patterns and Projects exactly.
I have some projects I would like to share and some patterns also. They may not be great but they will be given freely.

geezerwoodworker
Bill Rood

fwharris
12-28-2012, 05:08 PM
I do not know if anyone else has noticed but access to the attachments and pictures on the forum is now restricted to members. We had discussions about this in the past and now it seems to have come to pass. Maybe this knowledge will help us return to the old sharing attitude.

Correct you do have to be an active member and logged in now to view/read.

eelamb
12-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Bill you are welcome to use my statement. It is my way of telling the seller I am not happy with his actions and patterns I share are not to be sold by him or anyone else. It has done no good to date, but at least I have made my feeling known. I actually love sharing my patterns, just not here like in the past. On my signature are two site you may want to visit.

Bergerud yes you have to be a member to download the files, and the seller IS a member.

bergerud
12-28-2012, 05:55 PM
Bergerud yes you have to be a member to download the files, and the seller IS a member.

Well then I think the "forum code of conduct" should apply. If it does not, it should be revised so it covers this type of abuse.

Digitalwoodshop
12-28-2012, 06:17 PM
Sad that a member is here only to take for free or Harvest ptn's to SELL.... eBay is making money off the sales so they are no help.... Like a Corner Store selling Tobacco or BEER to a Guy who was asked out front by a minor.... The Store is making money and looks the other way.... Until they get caught....

eelamb
12-29-2012, 06:38 AM
Al it is sad, his actions has hurt everyone here, because no one wants the work they shared sold. Some are scumbags, only one they care about is them-self.

brdad
12-29-2012, 07:11 AM
I miss the way the forums used to be as well, and I have mentioned before and still can't help but feel that this could be remedied with changes to the software.

Items sold in the pattern depot are already protected from being used in a carve unless they are purchased and registered. Our patterns are already tagged with our user names so no one else can edit them. One remedy would be to set up the system so the items we post would have to be registered. One easier way would be for LHR to incorporate password protection into pattern and project files. this way, If we create a file, if we opted to password protect it, a person would have to contact the owner of the file in order to obtain the password to carve the pattern (But would be able to download and play with the file in designer just like we can with files in the pattern depot). If we did not opt to protect the file, it would be free to use as they are now.

lynnfrwd
12-29-2012, 08:26 AM
Become a pattern vendor and post them in the patterndepot.


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eelamb
12-29-2012, 08:58 AM
So Connie your solution is, do not share any patterns, sell them in the pattern depot so LHR gets 50% of the profit.

brdad
12-29-2012, 09:15 AM
That's exactly my thought. If you could post free patterns there for free or real cheap, it might help, but it is an added step that many people would not trouble themselves with. The few things I have posted, I was not interested in making a profit, I was trying to help others and/or give them inspiration with my 'profit' being the ideas and inspiration I have received from other forum members. Unlike many other products, I really think the success of this machine can in large part be attributed to the forum members and their generosity. I also understand LHR wants and has to make a profit, but investing in it's users would likely help.

PCW
12-29-2012, 09:48 AM
So Connie your solution is, do not share any patterns, sell them in the pattern depot so LHR gets 50% of the profit.

LOL... It's always boils down to $$$ just like ebay turning their head instead of making a wrong right as mentioned in a previous post. LHR has all the control and all of the resources to correct the problem but it's really not in their best interest to do so.

Proprietary hardware and software is a profitable combination.

fwharris
12-29-2012, 10:32 AM
Become a pattern vendor and post them in the patterndepot.


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Connie,

It is not about are patterns that WE are selling it is about the patterns we have posted for others to use to carve and learn how to set up carving projects. Look back through the system and see how many were posted on a daily basis from 2007 to 2010 and what the numbers have been since. Back then I would make a guess it was close to 50-100 per day, now maybe 1-10 if lucky..... The reason why? Well all know......

lynnfrwd
12-29-2012, 02:48 PM
I know, all. It was being asked for a way to protect them. I (LHR) can't do it for free as it requires too much personnel and systems resources. Yes, it is sometimes about the money. That's the nature of business.


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lynnfrwd
12-29-2012, 02:50 PM
There was also a lot of bad vibes on here back then too. Lots of people getting banned. Not near as bad now.


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Alan Malmstrom
12-29-2012, 04:32 PM
I think I'm going to sign up as a pattern vendor and see if I can sell a few patterns. To tell the truth I like creating patterns more than anything else.

fwharris
12-29-2012, 04:42 PM
I know, all. It was being asked for a way to protect them. I (LHR) can't do it for free as it requires too much personnel and systems resources. Yes, it is sometimes about the money. That's the nature of business.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not much resources needed to ban the member from the forum so he can not take our free shared patterns and projects and sell them.... You did it for the STARTU membership so why not here????

lynnfrwd
12-29-2012, 07:53 PM
The answer is not something I'm going to post. I wish I could.


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PCW
12-29-2012, 08:38 PM
Connie, your work here is very appreciated... and I never want to see the forum go back to the days of the past (QC days) however the rules need to change when new problems evolve.

The correct thing to do in my opinion is to modify the code of conduct rules as Dan suggested. Perhaps a statement that the free patterns on the forum are NOT TO BE RESOLD EVER as Ed would say. It wouldn't be fair to ban someone without a proper warning or even a rule to back it up with. Be kind of like a cop trying to give you a ticket for a unwritten law. I bet if this was a poll the votes would be 99 to 1 in favor of a statement of this nature.

LOL why do machines breakdown and topics of this nature always happen on weekends. Keep up the excellent job gal!

jpaluck
12-29-2012, 09:15 PM
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php/56348-IP-Banning you are correct floyd

fwharris
12-29-2012, 09:22 PM
https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php/56348-IP-Banning you are correct floyd

Oh I know the procedures for forums, been doing on Jason's sites for several years now..

CNC Carver
12-29-2012, 10:00 PM
It would be nice to have the EBAY STEAL(seller) ban from this form like he is on others. LHR know has the ablility as they have forced log in for download or viewing of files. LHR needs to support those that are supporting LHR and it's customers by sharing knowledge making the Carvewright a better machine to own.

I would like to thank all of the people who share there knowledge and talents for all of us forum members to learn from.

ladjr
12-29-2012, 10:03 PM
I would like to think we could stop them, but after 40 years in the business world I have learned that if they want to cheat you can't stop them.

jpaluck
12-30-2012, 12:25 AM
agree Leo...but it not so hard with Vbulliten to ban an email or ip...he did have 2 user names here...not sure if they banned now?

EDIT: yep Gsalano still a member here

badbert
12-30-2012, 02:23 AM
It would be nice to have the EBAY STEAL(seller) ban from this form like he is on others. LHR know has the ablility as they have forced log in for download or viewing of files. LHR needs to support those that are supporting LHR and it's customers by sharing knowledge making the Carvewright a better machine to own.

I would like to thank all of the people who share there knowledge and talents for all of us forum members to learn from.

Here, Here!! LHR does have a vested interest in Free Patterns as well! They are a great selling feature. "Log onto our forum and browse through hundreds of free patterns, created by other users!"

brdad
12-30-2012, 05:22 AM
Banning by email or IP would not stop anyone determined. If they made a new account and used a proxy server there would be no way to connect that user to an ebay account.

That's why I suggested built in password protection, which would put the owner of the file in charge. It's not foolproof either, but I'd think it would be more effective. Since the owner's name is in the file, it would even be possible to require unique passwords for each user. This puts more load on the file owner and less on LHR.

We can actually encrypt our files now using external software, but if it was incorporated into the pattern files it would have the benefit of trying before using.

lynnfrwd
12-30-2012, 08:44 AM
He was temporarily banned for multiple logins and those deactivated. Plus, warned not to create new login or face permanently banned. I check often. I'm sure he is enjoying all of this attention.


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Smoken D
12-30-2012, 09:08 AM
I also want to thank ever so much those that provide these wonderful free patterns! I support you so much. I also am not puter literate and designing things is still way over my head. Someday I am coming to one of you guys in person for help. I learn so much easier in person than reading. I just don't understand the words. Sorry, but I easily admitt I ain't so smart, not gifted that way but excell in another from years ago. I have several free patterns and have never sold a one. I enjoy making things for folks and just give them away. Right now am making 5 flag display boxes that I will just give away to widows of service men that have passed away. The free patterns that I have I make and give away for charity donations although I guess that you could streach it and say they are being paid for but I guarantee for a very good cause. I make no money off them and will continue to make things for folks free of charge as long as I am blessed to do so. Sorry again for rambling on, but I guarantee that there are probably many others that just love making things and giving them away, or at least I hope so. Again, thank you ever so much for such wonderful free patterns. Please don't let the very few that cause distress and cheat have the many pay for their unforgiving behavior. There are so many of us, like me, that appriciate you tallented guys so much. But, I do understand the problem those few guys have caused and the need to do what necessary. I was just so luck to be here a few years ago when patterns showed up every day for us. It was so much fun to get on this site to see what someone created each day, I know you guys were trying to out do each other every day. It was fun and still is!!!:D

TerryT
12-30-2012, 09:35 AM
Banning by email or IP would not stop anyone determined. If they made a new account and used a proxy server there would be no way to connect that user to an ebay account.

That's why I suggested built in password protection, which would put the owner of the file in charge. It's not foolproof either, but I'd think it would be more effective. Since the owner's name is in the file, it would even be possible to require unique passwords for each user. This puts more load on the file owner and less on LHR.

We can actually encrypt our files now using external software, but if it was incorporated into the pattern files it would have the benefit of trying before using.

Generally, the mechanics of banning someone amounts to clicking a button. Not hard to do. Keeping him out is also easy. There are at least two folks on the forum that check every new ip address that is associated with new members signing up. Its not likely he would last long before being banned again. His supply of IP addresses is limited and they already have two of them. Not that many available to most people. Besides if everyone here knows who he is, he isn't that smart (obviously).
It is my understanding that LHR is hesitant to ban someone based on accusations. As much as it bothers me, I have to agree. There is little evidence that would stand up in court (if it came to that). Even though you can't hire a very good attorney on an income based on sales of stolen carvewright patterns. Also, he is not the only one. There is one in Florida, if I remember correctly. I think his Tshirt business folded (LOL no pun intended).

My suggestion would be to post pictures and exchange patterns and projects via email so you know who you are dealing with. Alternativly, use one of the other forums that may already have this person banned.

badbert
12-30-2012, 12:35 PM
What if we changed the rules, a little bit. Maybe in order to be part of the forum, you have to use a valid machine serial number. You could give the pattern section, elevated membership. Registered owners only.

lynnfrwd
12-30-2012, 02:12 PM
He has a valid machine serial number.


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badbert
12-30-2012, 02:51 PM
But he only has one! Banning would be permanent, unless he wanted to buy another machine.

lawrence
12-30-2012, 04:32 PM
Guys, I'm going to go ahead and chime in here- please bear with me as I don't mean any offense.

It's not LHR's responsibility to keep anyone from reselling patterns on ebay.

If theft/resale of intellectual or copyrighted property is taking place on Ebay,
it is the creator's responsibility to press ebay to stop the seller.

My suspicion is that the person selling patterns on ebay knows that the majority of folks will not go to the trouble to do this and is taking their chances.

I spoke to an intellectual property (copyright) attorney about this situation (granted, it was at a party) some time ago and his initial take (other than, call me at the office and I'll bill you!) was

"if folks are using already created artwork (drawings) to create these 3d models, then the work is not their own anyway, it is a derivative of the original artist's work" It is the same thing as if someone creates a sculpture from a drawing... just because they make it into a 3d object does NOT make it theirs." He hesitated to go into more detail and I didn't try... we were at a social function and I didn't want to be "that guy".

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

Now, as for the artwork that is completely original.... (and I know that there are lots out there that create their own work)

If the patterns are completely original then it is a different story and the creator can certainly try to stop this seller from selling their work on ebay, but it is still not LHR's legal or moral responsibility to do so- that function belongs to the creator of the original work.

All this being said,
Dangit... it's a holiday weekend... lets try to give Connie a break here and start this discussion up again next week if y'all feel it is necessary to do so.

V/r
Lawrence

Jeff_Birt
12-30-2012, 04:40 PM
I think this subject has been rung through the wringer by now. Let's on to more constructive conversations please.