Another weird problem

[djarboe]

I was using my "new" carving bit today, and started hearing a strange carving sound about half way through the carving. I lifted the cover, and as the bit slowed down, I noticed the bit was spinning off center, as if the adapter was cocked. Since I could wiggle the bit/adapter in the chuck, I thought maybe the bit had come loose again. Took me forever to get it out of the chuck. When I finally got it out, I checked, and the bit screws were still tight.

A closer look revealed three indents in the top edge of the adapter, which had raised metal around them. There are three of these indendations, equally spaced around the circumference. Also, down by the set screws the adapter was shiny in the shape of the jaws of the chuck, as if it was being rubbed by the chuck.

When I put this in to begin with, I made sure it was "locked" in, and that the bit was tight. Am attaching two photos showing what I found.

I tried my old bit again (thank heavens I did not pitch it), and it worked perfectly. Of course, since it wasn't set at precisely the same length as the "new" one, it left a noticeable step in the carving. So I had to scrap the work piece, and am starting all over again. This is frustrating, since I was 58% through a 5-1/2 hour carving.

Any thoughts on what may have caused this?

Dave

5776657767

[badbert]

Yep! Your Quick-Change failed! You will need to replace the chuck and the adapter. Might want to look into the CarveTight upgrade.

[fwharris]

Dave,

To late now but one thing you could of done when using your old bit was to re set the bit length in the adapter to the same length as the one with the BB indents.

Inspect the inside of the QC real good to see how much wearing has occurred there as well. When I was still using the QC I used a small inspection mirror to insure the red lines on the bottom of the chuck were always matched up showing the the outer sleeve was locked all of the way down. Also insure you are getting all of the dust build up out of all of the areas in the QC. The build up prevents the adapter from inserting all of the way, outer sleeve not lowering completely and the 3 BBs from locking in properly.

Your cause is probably that the QC is finally wearing out and needs to be replaced. Based on mine and others, once you start getting the indents the QC is going.

[djarboe]

Yep! Your Quick-Change failed! You will need to replace the chuck and the adapter. Might want to look into the CarveTight upgrade.

Will that really be necessary? Like I said, the "old" bit worked perfectly. Changing the chuck sounds like a daunting task. Also, what is so unique about the CarveTight?

Thanks,
Dave

[djarboe]

Dave,

To late now but one thing you could of done when using your old bit was to re set the bit length in the adapter to the same length as the one with the BB indents.

Inspect the inside of the QC real good to see how much wearing has occurred there as well. When I was still using the QC I used a small inspection mirror to insure the red lines on the bottom of the chuck were always matched up showing the the outer sleeve was locked all of the way down. Also insure you are getting all of the dust build up out of all of the areas in the QC. The build up prevents the adapter from inserting all of the way, outer sleeve not lowering completely and the 3 BBs from locking in properly.

Your cause is probably that the QC is finally wearing out and needs to be replaced. Based on mine and others, once you start getting the indents the QC is going.

Like I said, the "old" bit still worked perfectly. I am a novice, but it seems like there is something about the new bit adapter. Badbert recommended moving to the CarveTight. My problem is that I have to have this carving done in time for Christmas. Whatever am I to do?

Dave

[fwharris]

If your old bit worked and did/does not have the indents the go for it and recarve your project. Give the QC a very good cleaning and blow out with air before starting.

On your question about the CarveTight, It is a more robust chuck, better balanced and a lot easier to maintain than the QC. Less areas to keep the dust out. A fairly easy change over to do as well.

[djarboe]

If your old bit worked and did/does not have the indents the go for it and recarve your project. Give the QC a very good cleaning and blow out with air before starting.

On your question about the CarveTight, It is a more robust chuck, better balanced and a lot easier to maintain than the QC. Less areas to keep the dust out. A fairly easy change over to do as well.

At this point, with Christmas fast approaching, I don't have much choice. Before carving, I usually put a pan on the sandpaper filled with paper towels, and then spray out the inside of the chuck with WD40. Then, I wipe it dry, and try, with my little finger, to coat the inside with 3-in-1 oil. Is there a better technique?

I starting to wonder about the quality control on the new bit/adapter I purchased. I have had nothing but problems with it since I got it.

Dave

[badbert]

If you still old bit/adapter. Give it a try. But make sure you clean and lube the QC. If you know how to remove the Z-drive. Pull it and make sure that chuck is clean. Always **** and snap the chuck a few times to help clean it. And make sure to use a mirror to insure that the bit is locked in tight (red line is aligned). Also make sure the set screws on the bit adapter are tight and loc-tited. Sometimes a bit is not dull only dirty. Try some oven cleaner on the carbide part, although I do not know if I would get it on the adapter. Random parts show up on Ebay. Keep your eye open for a Carvetight Chuck. That is where I got mine!

[badbert]

Also WD-40 can actually Clog the chuck if you are not blowing out the sawdust with compressed air!

[fwharris]

As Bert stated, after your wd-40 spray I would follow up with a good blow out of several good blasts of air to help get out any residual wd-40 and gunk left behind. Snap the QC several times...

Your light application of 3-1 oil is good.

[dehrlich]

Yes I had the same thing happen when my QC chuck wore out. The person that owned the machine before me didn't lube the chuck or adapter and it was gone after only 15 hours. I changed the chuck and it wasn't that bad. If you have a soldering iron or (what I used) a wood burning tool put up inside the chuck and let it get hot. Should pop right off. Since I changed mine no problems (knock on cyber wood). Going to get a rock chuck when funds allow. I use nail gun oil on my adapters, re-oil before every project!

[Digitalwoodshop]

What I have learned is that once a QC gets worn as in the pedestals that hold the Bit Holder with 3 ball bearings this lets the bit FLOP around inside the QC. When running at full RPM the flopping acts like a mini jackhammer and makes deeper holes or BB marks in the bit holders.

The only correct answer here is to replace the QC and all bit holders. IF you place a new bit in a bad QC it will make BB Marks in as little as 1 project. IF you replace the QC and use a Bit Holder with BB Marks, the Flopping Bit will destroy the new QC in as little as one project.

The CarveTite is a Improved Z Truck Assembly with a one piece from Square Drive to the Bit Holder or CarveTite Head. The UP side, it is smooth as silk and will give you a excellent carve. The slight down side is that the bits must be 1/2 inch only. LHR sells 1/4 inch shank bits with pressed on sleeves that work great.

OR do like I did... Ron Justice a member here makes a ROCK Chuck that you remove the QC from your Z Truck and install a ROCK that comes in 3 flavors. 1/8, 1/4. and 1/2. A 2 piece where a adapter screws on the Z Truck and then you can use either bottom part. I work in 1/4 all the time.

With the QC, if a bit gets stuck.... Use the Sling Shot Method.... Place a rag on the board to catch the bit.... Pull the outer skin of the QC up with 2 hands and let it snap back down.... Sling Shot... And the Bit SHOOTS out into the RAG...


And since we are talking Bit Holders.. IT is highly recommended that you remove the set screws on the bit holder with a little heat like a Crack Torch then re install with blue lock tite. MANY Bit Holders would let the screws loosen and the bit would fall out or even cut deeper destroying the project... One COLD night the metal shrunk and next morning the bit was laying on the board without the bit holder...

Good Luck,

AL

[dehrlich]

No heater in the workshop Al? I put an old wall gas heater in my shop a few years ago. Keeps it nice and toasty for about $20 worth of gas a month. Got tired of frozen glue and finishes.

[Digitalwoodshop]

I have a Direct Vent LP Gas heater in the Wood Shop and Laser Shop. I only heat the Wood Shop when I am working in the shop. I keep all the stuff that can freeze in the Laser Shop. When Sandy hit, I lost power for 6 days. I had to pull the Fire Tag Printer to the House to keep it from freezing. The ink is $166.00 per bag x 8... I plan to get another direct vent that does not need power and install it too for the power out days.... Was not too worried about paint it was not that cold...


AL

[djarboe]

What I have learned is that once a QC gets worn as in the pedestals that hold the Bit Holder with 3 ball bearings this lets the bit FLOP around inside the QC. When running at full RPM the flopping acts like a mini jackhammer and makes deeper holes or BB marks in the bit holders.

The only correct answer here is to replace the QC and all bit holders. IF you place a new bit in a bad QC it will make BB Marks in as little as 1 project. IF you replace the QC and use a Bit Holder with BB Marks, the Flopping Bit will destroy the new QC in as little as one project.

The CarveTite is a Improved Z Truck Assembly with a one piece from Square Drive to the Bit Holder or CarveTite Head. The UP side, it is smooth as silk and will give you a excellent carve. The slight down side is that the bits must be 1/2 inch only. LHR sells 1/4 inch shank bits with pressed on sleeves that work great.

OR do like I did... Ron Justice a member here makes a ROCK Chuck that you remove the QC from your Z Truck and install a ROCK that comes in 3 flavors. 1/8, 1/4. and 1/2. A 2 piece where a adapter screws on the Z Truck and then you can use either bottom part. I work in 1/4 all the time.

With the QC, if a bit gets stuck.... Use the Sling Shot Method.... Place a rag on the board to catch the bit.... Pull the outer skin of the QC up with 2 hands and let it snap back down.... Sling Shot... And the Bit SHOOTS out into the RAG...


And since we are talking Bit Holders.. IT is highly recommended that you remove the set screws on the bit holder with a little heat like a Crack Torch then re install with blue lock tite. MANY Bit Holders would let the screws loosen and the bit would fall out or even cut deeper destroying the project... One COLD night the metal shrunk and next morning the bit was laying on the board without the bit holder...

Good Luck,

AL

Well, I learned that lesson with the loose bit. I now use the blue loctite.

[djarboe]

How do I look up the Rock chuck? Will I need new adapters for all my bits? The LHR version seems a bit pricy.

[djarboe]

What I have learned is that once a QC gets worn as in the pedestals that hold the Bit Holder with 3 ball bearings this lets the bit FLOP around inside the QC. When running at full RPM the flopping acts like a mini jackhammer and makes deeper holes or BB marks in the bit holders.

The only correct answer here is to replace the QC and all bit holders. IF you place a new bit in a bad QC it will make BB Marks in as little as 1 project. IF you replace the QC and use a Bit Holder with BB Marks, the Flopping Bit will destroy the new QC in as little as one project.

The CarveTite is a Improved Z Truck Assembly with a one piece from Square Drive to the Bit Holder or CarveTite Head. The UP side, it is smooth as silk and will give you a excellent carve. The slight down side is that the bits must be 1/2 inch only. LHR sells 1/4 inch shank bits with pressed on sleeves that work great.

OR do like I did... Ron Justice a member here makes a ROCK Chuck that you remove the QC from your Z Truck and install a ROCK that comes in 3 flavors. 1/8, 1/4. and 1/2. A 2 piece where a adapter screws on the Z Truck and then you can use either bottom part. I work in 1/4 all the time.

With the QC, if a bit gets stuck.... Use the Sling Shot Method.... Place a rag on the board to catch the bit.... Pull the outer skin of the QC up with 2 hands and let it snap back down.... Sling Shot... And the Bit SHOOTS out into the RAG...


And since we are talking Bit Holders.. IT is highly recommended that you remove the set screws on the bit holder with a little heat like a Crack Torch then re install with blue lock tite. MANY Bit Holders would let the screws loosen and the bit would fall out or even cut deeper destroying the project... One COLD night the metal shrunk and next morning the bit was laying on the board without the bit holder...

Good Luck,

AL

Seems strange that all my problems started when I got the new carving bit from LHR. Like I said, the old bit that came with the system still seems to work just fine. Hmm...

[djarboe]

Yes I had the same thing happen when my QC chuck wore out. The person that owned the machine before me didn't lube the chuck or adapter and it was gone after only 15 hours. I changed the chuck and it wasn't that bad. If you have a soldering iron or (what I used) a wood burning tool put up inside the chuck and let it get hot. Should pop right off. Since I changed mine no problems (knock on cyber wood). Going to get a rock chuck when funds allow. I use nail gun oil on my adapters, re-oil before every project!

I just checked, and I only have 137 of motor running time. One would think the chuck should last longer than that.

[djarboe]

As Bert stated, after your wd-40 spray I would follow up with a good blow out of several good blasts of air to help get out any residual wd-40 and gunk left behind. Snap the QC several times...

Your light application of 3-1 oil is good.

Just cleaned it again with WD-40, and used air to clean it out. Then, right or wrong, I gave the inside a good coat of white lithium grease spray.

[fwharris]

Just cleaned it again with WD-40, and used air to clean it out. Then, right or wrong, I gave the inside a good coat of white lithium grease spray.

The grease will be like a magnet for the saw dust.. not recommended...

For the CarveTight you do get a $40.00 credit back for returning the old Z truck.....

[dehrlich]

I just checked, and I only have 137 of motor running time. One would think the chuck should last longer than that.

Like I said, mine only had 15 hours when I changed my chuck. It's all about care and maintenance with these machines. They are like a high maintenance woman, always want you to pay attention to them LOL.

[djarboe]

Just cleaned it again with WD-40, and used air to clean it out. Then, right or wrong, I gave the inside a good coat of white lithium grease spray.

OOPs, so much for the best intentions. But I only sprayed the inside. Should I clean it with WD-40 and spray it out again? what do I lube it with?

[djarboe]

Like I said, mine only had 15 hours when I changed my chuck. It's all about care and maintenance with these machines. They are like a high maintenance woman, always want you to pay attention to them LOL.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head... or the chuck... :)

[fwharris]

OOPs, so much for the best intentions. Should I clean it with WD-40 and spray it out again? what do I lube it with?

If you talking about to get the white grease out??? YES>>> and lightly oil with 3-1 Just on the inner part. You can also lightly oil the adapter..