I'm almost Ready to Buy: Questions

[bquicksilver]

After lurking for quite some time I think the CW fits my needs of just being a hobbyist woodworker wanting greater flexibility. No production use for me.

I don't mind doing a little repair work/maint so I'm weighing a new C vs older unit. The used units seem to be going pretty high lately, and I can't find much in the sub-$700 range. I will fo U start if new, but frankly advise and warranty are best covered on this excellent forum, so those aren't big factors.

That said, I still have some remaining questions:
1) What are the major differences from A to B to C? I know the CT spindle is a big one, but wasn't sure when that came in and what other changes were made over time.
2) Can you upgrade an A version to all features of a C? I assume that may be prohibitive financially, but would really love to see the changes between models and the cost to bring an older unit up to a new C spec.
3) Software: In short what would it take to have a simple image dropped into a 3d carving? Think some odd shape like a lake carved at the same depth just for illustration. What software would be best for that?
4) Bits: What does a CT spindle bit look like vs the quick change ones? I seem to only see quick change ones on eBay.

Thanks In Adavance!

[badbert]

1: I would like the answer to this as well.
2: The carvewright used to be much more expensive. People who paid that much have a hard time letting go... $700+ upgrades versus $1200 new is really a good deal.
3: Download the designer software and play with it. http://www.carvewright.com/support-page/getting-started/update/?major=1&minor=186&os=win
4: http://store.carvewright.com/home.php?cat=291

(http://store.carvewright.com/home.php?cat=291) Welcome, come on and join the party!

[fwharris]

After lurking for quite some time I think the CW fits my needs of just being a hobbyist woodworker wanting greater flexibility. No production use for me.

I don't mind doing a little repair work/maint so I'm weighing a new C vs older unit. The used units seem to be going pretty high lately, and I can't find much in the sub-$700 range. I will fo U start if new, but frankly advise and warranty are best covered on this excellent forum, so those aren't big factors.

That said, I still have some remaining questions:
1) What are the major differences from A to B to C? I know the CT spindle is a big one, but wasn't sure when that came in and what other changes were made over time.
2) Can you upgrade an A version to all features of a C? I assume that may be prohibitive financially, but would really love to see the changes between models and the cost to bring an older unit up to a new C spec.
3) Software: In short what would it take to have a simple image dropped into a 3d carving? Think some odd shape like a lake carved at the same depth just for illustration. What software would be best for that?
4) Bits: What does a CT spindle bit look like vs the quick change ones? I seem to only see quick change ones on eBay.

Thanks In Adavance!

A to B, changes was mainly the A907 Z truck upgrade that did away with the plug on the Z truck for the scanning probe. Change was made on some late A models.
B to C, better machine build with upgraded frame, reinforcement to the electrical components, board tracking and the CarveTight chuck.
You can upgrade the A/B units to the new chuck and A907 package.

Pictures show the original bits with the QC adapter and the new CT bits and chuck.

My choice for a first machine would be to go with the new C version. By the time you put $$$ into an A or B you are close to the same price for a new one.

[lynnfrwd]

Don't know how many of you caught it in the newsletter but machine prices are going up around Christmas / new year time frame. Don't know how much.


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[fwharris]

Don't know how many of you caught it in the newsletter but machine prices are going up around Christmas / new year time frame. Don't know how much.


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Guess I missed that, but re looking at it again it does indicated that... hmmm

[bquicksilver]

Looks like #4 is answered - thanks badbert.

#1: Thanks for the reply fwharris! Can you explain exactly what that A907 change improves? I don't quite speak shop that well here.
#2: Since the frame/electric was upgraded from A/B to C, would it be safe to assume an A/B could never quite work as well as a C? I know the CT spindle is the big upgrade and you can change that. Also price to upgrade to CT chuck or the A907 board?
#3: I guess I should clarify. Say you have a simple *.jpg file you want carved on a board. How much work and what software is needed to achieve that. I'm just feeling out how much you depend on others patterns bc it's potentially too involved to do your own.

Bummer on the new price increase, I'm on the fence between new/used. Really at this point the biggest holdback for me buying is the software pricing structure with no ability to transfer licenses.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The A907 is just changing the 18 pin FSC Cable to a 14 pin Cable with Thicker Wires. A 14 pin cable and the circuit board for both ends. It was mostly because they removed 3 functions from the Z Truck. A Homing Sensor replaced with just bumping up into the upper mechanical stop. A 1/8 inch audio jack to accept the Probe Data and that was changed to the Side cover 4th Axis Jack... (Ok... That got your attention... Not really designated the 4th Axis Jack... more a Axillary Jack as it has multi wires.... And last... At one time the Z Truck had a Magnetic Speed Sensor inside.... All Gone... not needed... SO that let them use a 14 pin cable for a little more Current Capability to the Z Motor... At least that is My reasoning... The 18 pin thinner wires appeared to break over time.... Causing problems...

As far as the Frame.. Never saw a B or C.... But the Z Trucks have the holes plugged from the removed sensors and a slightly heavier casting especially near the lower right Roller Rail Bearing that was known to crack. A black washer fixed the wedge problem of the countersunk screw forcing the casting to crack.


Making a pattern from a.jpg file is an ART.... LHR has some new add on Pattern Software that will help... A look through the pattern depot will show you the many cheap patterns you can buy. Because of the License Software, most new patterns have a License that will let it carve only on YOUR machine. It will show up in RED until you download the License. Patterns created without the License will work. Watch out for eBay and the Pattern Disks... Most are Stolen from HERE and sold for a proffit... Look here first....


Everything will go up.... And I see you understand the Software License...


Good Luck,


AL

[bquicksilver]

Thanks Al! That is great info.

Just trying to see what sort of price would make an A/B okay for me...
1) Any idea what the parts for the carvetight upgrade would run?
2) Any idea what the A907 upgrade would run? (2 boards+cable)

Re: software, the "art" was a big concern for me. I understand you're looking to take a 2d jpg and make a 3d carving, therefore adding data to that file of course. I was just curious what software that action would require and how automated/easy it is. I guess the question is if the software somehow speeds the jpg to carve process or if you're manipulating every single pixel to get there?

[lynnfrwd]

Pricing for both are on the store.

It depends on the jpg and what u are carving into. Making lithos or taking 2 or 3 color logos into carvable pattern are easiest. Taking a complex photo and making it near 3d is much more difficult. See tutorial for 3d pattern modeling software. It also uses the 2d vector drawing suite. All at www.carvewright.com



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[fwharris]

CarveTight upgrade $159.99 http://store.carvewright.com/product.php?productid=20563&cat=255 There is a rebate for returning the old Z truck..

A907 upgrade not sure on this one. Guessing around $100 but not really sure. Thought it was in the store but not able to find it. On a used machine you can verify if it already has it by seeing where the wire harness from the keyboard side cover switch plugs in to the circuit board. If on top it is the upgrade. If on bottom the old style.

As for the image to carve software most use a regular photo editing software and/or a few others like shadermap to convert/edit the image before taking it into designer.

[seathis]

As for patterns, I always design my own. I purchased a few at the beginning to get carving, but Now I use only my own designs because I want no copywrite issues when I sell them. A lot of Autocad, Photoshop, Designer 3d goes into them with many hours, but I get the exact Design I'm looking for. This is no easy step and there is no breezing through. But you can do it too with practice.

[lynnfrwd]

Z Motor Bundle isn't on store. Sorry. It is currently $125 and has a rebate.

[Digitalwoodshop]

There are very few machines still out in the CW world with the original 18 pin FSC system. Only a "A" would have one and I post the pictures at least twice a month when someone is talking about a old machine just to give them a quick reference to what to look for.... Like the Wings on the Connector... Wings = new 14 pin. I post it more as a Caution because I have seen posted more than once in the EARLY switch over where someone purchased a new 14 pin cable and installed it in a 18 pin jack and the wider pins of the 14 pin shorted some of the 18 pin thinner contacts together and KILLED the machine... That is a $300.00 Plus Mistake.... Usually it smokes the Computer... LHR has a policy that when they sell someone a 14 pin cable they check the User Data on the Machines Registered to that user to "BE SURE" they don't have a 18 pin system... It is the 2nd and 3rd machine owner I am more worried about... Finding a "NEW" "A" machine that was purchased in 2007 and a Frustrated Owner set it aside for a few years and it eventually finds it's way back into use... LHR could easily send them a 14 pin cable for that NEW machine that is not yet "Registered" and it "Could" have a 18 pin Board and Hence.... Another Machine KILLED....

Note the pictures of the Cooling Fins on the Z Motor. In the EARLY days of the 14 pin change LHR sold you a NEW Z Motor TOO with the Kit. The Advantage is the Protected Wire sleeve as seen in the pictures AND the Shorter Cooling Fins that did not get caught in the Right Side Cut Motor Switch WIRES as EASILY... Now they just send the 14 pin cable and the Circuit Boards that go on each end.

As I mentioned, I have 4 "A" machines and with a 14 pin FSC Cable System, a Glued Board Sensor, a Glued L2 Coil on the Power Supply I have a very RELIABLE machine....

I expect to change the Cut Motor Brushes every 250 Cut Hours, Change the Y Gear Box 2 Bearings every 250 Cut Hours, and EXPECT the FSC Cable to FAIL as it is a CONSUMABLE and with every Flex, ESPECIALLY if it has ANY SHARP BENDS will FAIL.... Just like taking a piece of solid copper wire like house wiring in your hand and bending it over and over... IT will eventually FAIL....

I use Sand Paper Belts and I know with 6 inch wide stock the belts DRIFT toward the Brass Roller and need to be watched.... I even cut off a 3/4 inch strip to keep a GAP between the belt edge and the Brass Roller.... IF the belt rolls under it is not easy to see and caused the board to lift off the Brass Roller OR Binds the Belts.... Rubber Belts are better.... But I like the Sand Paper Belts....

And Finally... The QC has it's share of problems.... MOSTLY due to Users "Like ME" that used them LONG past WORN OUT and the resulting Vibration shakes the machine apart... So a CT or ROCK is the Answer....


This has been a Public Service Announcement from the Matag CW Repairman "AL Who".... KNOW the Signs of a 18 PIN System....


:)

[DickB]

Re: software, the "art" was a big concern for me. I understand you're looking to take a 2d jpg and make a 3d carving, therefore adding data to that file of course. I was just curious what software that action would require and how automated/easy it is. I guess the question is if the software somehow speeds the jpg to carve process or if you're manipulating every single pixel to get there?
This is a common question. Take a look here http://forum.carvewright.com/showthread.php?21868-software&p=189977#post189977 at the difference between a 2D .jpg and a 3D (some would say 2.5D) heightmap that the machine can use. Making the transformation is not automated and is "easy" only with (as with many other things) learning and practice. For comparison, is making a bookcase "easy" for an experienced woodworker with a well-equipped shop who has already built several? Probably. Is it easy for a novice woodworker to do so with only a hand saw and a hammer? Probably not. With the CarveWright, the tools that you may be adding to your shop could include software (Pattern Editor, Centerline Text, DFX Importer, 3rd party software) that, once learned, will make it easier to do things. Actually, there is a lot to learn and master in the basic Designer software itself. But just like a table saw can't build a bookcase on its own, these software tools can't make patterns or projects for you by themselves either.

There are many ways to transform 2D .jpg images for CarverWright, some producing better results than others. There are a number of tutorials on the site for these various techniques. Maybe someone should compile an index, as this is a common new or prospective owner question.

[papawbummie]

Al you"r right, got my attention 4th axis that would plug in to the machine as a stand alone rotary capable of long project with the easy to use Desinger Software and all the patterns would be awesome Just wordering if any thing is in the near future Thanks Bert

[fwharris]

Don't know how many of you caught it in the newsletter but machine prices are going up around Christmas / new year time frame. Don't know how much.


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The LAYAWAY option might be a great choice to lock in the current price on the machine now if you know you might be holding off for the big purchase at a later time....

[Digitalwoodshop]

I don't know for sure but I believe a 4 Axis "was" considered by LHR at some point... I half expected it to show up some Pre Christmas to raise the interest in the CW. If you search back, a User has developed a Rotary Jig with LHR support that uses a Carrier Board in the machine and a Jig to hold a blank of wood in the machine sideways. The Motion of the board through the machine rotates the fixed blank. Yes, it is limited to the Width of the machine, some Cain Makers just glue the carved part to the end with a Dowel and blend it in.... Works Great....

Another User "Hinted" that He removed the jacking screws to lift the head and replaced them with 4 Air Cylinders letting the Center of the Machine or where the Jacking Screws "Were" for a Pass Through... Moving the Keypad to the side, a longer blank could be fit to a hollow type jig. It is only your imagination that limits what a resourceful person could do with the machine....

AL

[bquicksilver]

I'm humbled by all the good advice here. This has become somewhat of a buyer's guide. Thanks all, especially to Al!!

More Questions:
1) Al, so you feel the fsc cable upgrade is more important than the HD belts or CT spindle? Seems you have the former but not the latter in your machines.
2) The "slightly heavier casting" - was that an A to B change or B to C? Is it a notable upgrade?
3) The black washer fixing the wedge issue, was that A to B or B to C, or is that an easy fix for anyone?
4) "Glued board sensor" - can you elborate on the issue?
5) "Glued L2 coil" - can you elborate on the issue?

I'll try to save the software questions, but I am curious what software you feel is necessary to create your own patterns effectively?

[keninar]

Bquick. Check your notifications (at the top right of the forum pages) Question for your question regarding software.