Stuck Bit Holder

[Northwoods Woodcrafter]

Okay... I'm done with the stuck bit problem. This time my bit fell out and the holder is stuck in the chuck. The chuck is frozen and won't release.

If I order a newfangeled chuck, can I remove the old one and install the new one without getting this bit holder out?

Thanks!

Pete

[lynnfrwd]

The new CarveTight Spindle (although I really like the word "newfangled"!) replaces the whole z-truck and uses bits with different adapters. Replace it with the new CT and you can even send the old Z-Truck with QC and adapter still stuck inside for your rebate. ;)

[badbert]

The Carvetight is different, not as easy as snapping a bit in place. But the extra effort of tightening the bit, is more than worth the benefits! Smoother, quieter operation. Much more secure bit holding. Much, Much, lower maintenance. The only way to keep the Quick-change running, is to keep constantly cleaning and lubing it. Just blow the Carvetight out every now and then. And wipe down with WD-40 every now and then.

[Northwoods Woodcrafter]

Thanks guys! I'll be ordering a Carvetight very soon! I don't need speed, I need reliability from this newfangled thang!

Pete

[CNC Carver]

I think you will find it a great improvement. I purchased my unit with the carvetight and I'm glad I did. I haven't had many troubles with my unit other than normal wear and tear. And the I knew I should have done that moments.

[ladjr]

I don't see "New Fangled Thang" on the parts list. What does it do. Sounds interesting

[edzbaker]

That sounds like a description of a Vampire that just grew his long teeth..... I like it too...

[cestout]

The adaptor is probably stuck in the QC for the same reason the bit fell out - the screws backed out and are jammed against the inside of the QC. Good move to replace withe the new fangled thing.
Clint

[b.sumner47]

Pete, You will not be disappointed with the up grade to the Carvetight. Talk to you later.


Capt Barry

[Digitalwoodshop]

Something to get you carving tonight is to try the "Sling Shot" Bit Holder Removal Method..... It is as simple and first apply some 3 in 1 oil to the top of the QC Chuck so the oil flows down the inside of the outer shell. Place some rags on the Sand Paper Belts to keep the Oil from splattering on the belts. The with 2 hands push up the otter ring or housing of the QC to as high as you can then let it "SNAP" down... Within 1 or 2 Snaps the Bit Holder Usually Snaps out... Called the Sling Shot...

Look for BB Marks on the Bit Holder. IF you see BB Marks then the QC and Bit Holders are BAD... IF you replace just the Bit Holders OR Just the QC then the old part will wear out the new part in as little as one project. As the BB Marks are from worn QC and the high speed spinning JACK HAMMERS BB Marks into the Bit Holders...

Another Option just worth mentioning is the ROCK Chuck made by User Ron Justice. I have the ROCK on all 4 of my machines. There are 2 Advantages for the Rock as "I" see it... 1. You can twist off the OLD QC and the ROCK will Screw on to the Old Z Truck. It has 2 parts, the Adapter that goes on the Z Truck then the Bit Holder part. This screws on the Adapter and comes in 3 Flavors... 1/4 inch, 1/2 inch and 1/8 inch. I work in 1/4 inch almost all the time so this ROCK works great for me. I have a 1/2 inch Bit Holder that I could Screw on if I need the 1/2 inch capability. I have yet to order a 1/8 inch holder but will eventually.

The CT sold by LHR has the advantage that is replaces the whole Z Truck and is a one piece from the bit holder to the top where the flex plugs into it. This gives a better or lower Run Out or Wobble Reading is measured at the bit holder.

Since the Rock Screws on to the end of the Z Truck then a second piece screws onto the end, that is 2 Threaded Joints that in "Theory" could give you some run out or wobble. It has been MY experience that the Expert Quality of the Rock eliminates this runabout as an issue. I am very pleased with my ROCKS....

A slight down side to the CT is that since it is only 1/2 inch that it is HIGHLY recommended that users buy the Bits from LHR that have the 1/2 inch sleeve professionally pressed onto the 1/4 inch bits. So your only source of bits will be through LHR and Sears Parts. Yes, they make the 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch Collete's to use a 1/4 inch bit in a hand router, but due to the way the CT Holds the bit, it is possible that a 1/4 inch Solid Carbide Bit being held by a 1/2 inch Collet in a CarveTite "MAY" not be held tight enough and the Bit Could SLIP or Fall OUT. That is why the recommendation to only use the LHR Bits. Some HAVE used the Collet's with good luck but there is always the possibility of a problem.


IF you decide to go with the ROCK, Ron sells a KIT with the 2 Wrenches and the Square Drive Bit to remove the old QC and install the ROCK. I DO recommend ordering 1 or 2 MORE Square Drive Bits at the time you place the order.

The Old QC is installed with Red Forever Lock Tite and the only thing that will let you remove the QC is HEAT.... I have been down this road a few times... I have used a Hair Dryer with POOR LUCK... I have used a small Torch with better luck... But the BEST in MY opinion is a CHEAP Soldering IRON from Radio Shack.... Remove the Tip and slide a 1/2 inch Bit Holder over the heating element and insert the Soldering iron into the old QC. Or just shove the Soldering Iron up inside the QC. This gets the HEAT to the place where it is NEEDED.... the Inside Threads of the QC... The Torch Method heating the OUTSIDE of the QC creates SMOKE and can HEAT the Lower Bearing of the Z Truck to the point that it is damaged... With THAT said... If you Don't apply Enough Heat and try really HARD to un screw the QC you can SNAP the little Case Hardened Square Drive Bit OR like I did once, STRIP the inside of the Square Drive ROUND.... I once snapped 3 Square Drive Bits before giving up and replacing the whole Z Truck....


So this is a VERY LONG post.... Since we see less and less QC's this "Must Know" info is not posted very often as it was in the past years with so many Rocks and CT's in use.


There is a 3rd and 4th version of the Bit Holders too... I won't talk about them, as I have never seen them and they are not very common.

GOOD LUCK !!!!

I see you joined in 2007, so a quick check to see if you have the OLD 18 Pin FSC Cable System is in order.... IF you have the older 18 pin then a upgrade to the KIT with the 2 circuit boards and a new 14 pin cable is recommended. The 18 pin has thinner wires and have been know to give you a Z Stall. The 14 pin has heavier wires. It's like the 18 pin is a "AA" Battery and a 14 pin is a "D" Cell Battery. Both work, but "D" is better as it has more "Push" as in Current to push the Z Motor. Caution... A Replacement 14 pin FSC Cable plugged into the 18 pin Circuit Boards with cause a SHORT Circuit with the WIDER Pins of the 14 pin and KILL your computer.... $300.00 + Please.... to fix... So KNOW.... 14 pin or 18 pin..

SO... With THIS information you can make an informed choice.

AL

So for the Pictures...

See the 14 and 18 pin FSC Cable, note the Wings on the new 14 pin connector.

The Z Truck that I snapped off 3 square drive bits not heating the QC enough... I even resorted to drilling a hole in the truck to lock the shaft with a Pin... Didn't work... Broke the Thin Z Truck Casting more at the Hole and was a FAIL... Gave up on this Forever Locktite.

Pictures of Bit Holders with some BB Marks... Note the Dates... I even blamed the BLACKENED Bit on a new version of Designer and it was REALLY a BAD QC and the WOBBLING bit in the DEEP Cut Path was making the SMOKE from heat.... It had nothing to do with the new Designer you can EVEN SEE the BB MARKS in the 1-130 PICTURE...... It was all about using a QC LONG past WORN OUT.... The ROCK Solved that for me...

Picture 3 shows the Damper Ring that fell out of the Z Truck, it is around the lower Z Truck Bearing and is a Damper. It can FALL OUT.... Watch for this... It can be stuffed back up and a drop of glue or a punch and indent the metal to keep it in.

[CarverJerry]

I also have the Rock chuck, never had a problem with it and it sure made such a difference in the preformance of my machine. I hated that old QC chuck. I also have a dust collector from Ringneck Blues, it works great and keeps my machine very clean.....I would highly recommend using a good vacuum system, make sure it has the proper grounding system hooked to it to prevent static electricity buildup. My machine is a "B" model and I have almost 400 cutting hours on it. Just my 2¢ worth.

[Digitalwoodshop]

That's a Great 2 Cents worth... 400 hours, Have you replaced the Y inner Gear box Bearings yet?

AL

[CarverJerry]

Nope, not yet, so far the only thing I've replaced is the cut motor brushes......knock on WOOD.... I know its just a matter of time...

[Northwoods Woodcrafter]

Thanks for the help... I now own one of those newfangled CarveTight chucks. So far it seems like a MUCH better chuck system. I'm looking forward to doing some Kewl stuff before the next problem stops me.

[eastcutty]

I found that a worn QC would ruin bit holders quickly, and also that using the BB'd holders in a new replacement QC would ruin that, too.
I liked the idea of the CT's simplicity but didn't like the Z-truck changeover.
So I went with Option C- kept the QC truck/spindle and welded a bit holder into the inner core of a disassembled QC and press-fit (heat-swaged) a machined-down Dremel shaft into that. Works like a charm, and the detail capability increase is incredible! Runs smooth and solid- looks like it's standing still when spinning. Bits are cheap, easy to replace, and easy to compensate for within the range of Designer settings. I can remove the whole setup whenever I like. The classic Dremel nut/collet set-up doesn't hold up, however, since the aluminum collets are too frail to handle the tight compression force necessary to keep the non-keyed/indexed bits from spinning. Their mini Jacobs-style chuck works great though!
I'll post a few pics when I get a chance.

[CNC Carver]

I'd worry about the chuck comming loose and bit flying. Just my opion from reading review of the Dremel 4486 MultiPro Keyless Chuck (http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-4486-MultiPro-Keyless-Chuck/dp/B0000302ZV/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) . Found here http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-4486-MultiPro-Keyless-Chuck/dp/B0000302ZV