my improved sled

[lawrence]

After quite a bit of reading and comments lately on the subject of sleds, I thought I'd show y'all mine. I've made some recent improvements. A couple of you will be happy to hear that my sled requires no masking tape for the sensors now! I know I've been promising I'd post pics about this for a while now but I wanted to get my improvements done before I showed it. I do plan to make another that is less "robust" as I over-engineered this one a bit. With the new "four-inch" stretchers on the ends, I shoudn't have to worry about racking and could make the whole assembly much lighter without comprimising strength.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/ldr_klr/Carvewright/sled/P11208511024x768.jpg

The sled is basically a long "U" shape that has an inner "floor" that can be raised and lowered to accommodate different thicknesses of materials. The "floor" rides on 4 bolts which can all be loosened and then tightened to the correct material thickness. To do so, I loosen all four and then hold the material up to each corner and tighten the bolt appropriately.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/ldr_klr/Carvewright/sled/P11208471024x768.jpg

This pic shows the grooves for the bolts.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/ldr_klr/Carvewright/sled/P11208531024x768.jpg

This shows the inside- the lower "square" holds the nut that the carriage bolt tightens into. I'll use threaded taps on my next version but I will say that the extra thickness does keep the piece from racking too much.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/ldr_klr/Carvewright/sled/P11208521024x768.jpg

To use the sled I put the piece to be carved into the center with double stick tape (It hasn't failed me yet... very tough stuff as I use the kind woodturners use) I carved marks showing the center of the sled with my CW-- this makes lining up the piece in the center very easy. I then put the sled all the way to the right with the left side "four-inch rail" under the sensor. I then just use the sled as normal, ensuring I use "center" for everything. Perhaps there is a better way to do all this, but it works for me and there is no loss of material.

Let me know if you have questions,
Lawrence

[ladjr]

As usual Lawrence you have hit a home run. Great sled.

[SharonB]

Lawrence... that is a nice looking sled and practical too. That would certainly eliminate having to have so many sleds. I'll have to keep your sled in mind when I do my next one.

[fwharris]

Lawrence,

Thanks for getting this posted for us! ;) Great job!

[badbert]

It looks like it all can be built by the carvewright. I am so disappointed that there are no carvings on it! Carvewright Logo on the side or something! A masterpiece like that needs to be dressed up. With a sacrificial board that sled could be the last sled we have to build. Drop a new piece of luan in, carve the ruler, and ready to go! That is an awesome project.

[tierman]

Lawrence,
Thanks so much for posting with pics and explanations! Gives me a couple of ideas to use with my"slabs" as sometimes they are not perfectly uniform in thickness. With your adjustability in the "z"axis I may be able to not worry about thicknes as long as they are mounted "flat on the cutting surface. Thanks again.
Roger

[Chay]

Thats a great looking sled. I hope you don't mine me making one like it.
I guess I coulds use a frame on the bottom instead of solid plywood.
Whay size did you make it?
Best regards.
Chay

[Smoken D]

Here is mine. I use 3/4" and 1/2" MDF for the end 4". The top sled was my first and the bottom the second. On that second just have the end's fixed so they slide off the tracks and able to switch thickness depending on the project.
You made me think and wonder if using a strip of sticky 220 grit sandpaper instead of masking tape might work well? Just don't let Al hear that:)

[mtylerfl]

The adjustable floor/thickness idea is ingenious! Very cool, Lawrence. Thank you for posting this.

[SteveEJ]

Question: So to use the sled(s) that are measured the same lengths, you place the part to be carved in the proper position in Designer relative to X=0 and Y=0? So based on what I am seeing then the start of the carved part is X=4 (or there abouts) and y=0.5 (or there abouts) correct?

Thanks,

[Digitalwoodshop]

Very nice !!!!

Al

[TerryT]

The adjustable floor/thickness idea is ingenious! Very cool, Lawrence. Thank you for posting this.

It is!! I'm building one of those as soon as I can. I just made several preset sleds for some cribbage boards but this one sled will replace them all! Great job Lawrence and thanks for sharing.

[andes]

Thank you for sharing, it a really great adjustable sled...

[cestout]

Amazing and eliminates having to plane 25/32 boards to 3/4 to match my sleds. Only shortcoming I see is that cutouts could be a problem, but that needs investigation. It's been a while since I did a cutout on a wide board, but I think the actual measuring is bypassed and your are just asked for the thickness. If that is correct, then cutouts will work, but may scar the surface - or use sacrificial 1/8" mdf under the piece. Where do you get your 2 sided tape? I am having trouble finding it.
Thanks
Clint

[eelamb]

Lowes has 2 sided carpet tape that works great. I use the one with the fiber, not the plain 2 sided like scotts tape.

[Sallen1215]

I have a sled similar to this and i plan to rebuild some of it, The "u" box seems like it can be made from 1/2" Baltic birch as opposed to 3/4. This will significantly reduce the weight and if you use the jog to touch then you dont have to worry about the bit missing the rails on the side when measuring.

[lawrence]

Thanks guys- Hope I can answer a couple of questions / clear things up here

1. There isn't really a "plan" for this... sorry... I really winged it as I went along and have added/adjusted it. I do hope to make a sled in the future that will be made of thinner, lighter materials and that will not be so over-engineered. If I can make it so that this sled can fit *broken down into a flat rate "game" box, I *may put it up for sale after I test it.

2. Cut outs work- and yes it scars up the face like here. I just filled it with wall paste and painted over it... worked just fine :) A replicable face would be preferable though.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/ldr_klr/Carvewright/sled%20and%20tote/DSCF00251024x768-1.jpg

I used this sled in my "ornament" video last year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81QWZn-8A&list=UU3tNEUF8NxlRATN8plvTCmw&index=7&feature=plcp
this was before I put on the end plates, and some tape was required... I know better now :)

I REALLY recommend turners tape- I get mine here. Yes, it is pricy... but it lasts a VERY long time as you only need to use a little bit (a very little bit) as it is a pressure sensitive adhesive. It goes on strong and holds even stronger after going under the CW rollers.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2000390/3903/doublefaced-tape-1-x-36-yds.aspx

Steve, I'm not sure how to answer your question... I just use "center" and it works. For design, I just program the piece onto a board the actual size of the board I put on the sled... sometimes I get a *hair off on my centering, but I clean this up afterwards. I think there would be a way to put it on the corner, but I haven't sussed that out yet... I'm pretty dumb (and stubborn) sometimes.

Chay- it is 14x26ishx4ish.. but I think this is actually too big. My next one will be smaller.

Thanks again all, and please (of course) feel free to copy and improve on (as long as you share your experiences!), this idea.

Lawrence

[Kmbzak]

Lawrence, That is a nice sled, I have been looking it over and I have decided to make one like yours if you don't mind on my next day off. You had mention that you would make it a different size? Before I start building it do you have any other suggestions on the size. I made a few sleds any They really don't match your skill. The wood scraps that I have left are all d56589ifferent thickness. I have been cutting Junipher logs to about 3/4 inch but they are never trun. Here is a pic of one

[Scott31]

very nice... I am new to this so have a lot to learn.

[aokweld101]

I'm a little mixed up on making a sled, I'm not lazy... as usual I don't understand the tolerences that we are allowed, the height, width and length, and the thicknes on the top board, and when doing a .25 broard do you have to use another .25 to make up for the .5 height tolerance... would it be posible to get these measurements for the sled...Iv'e had this machine going on 8 months and thought I would be farther along on learning the buttons than I am, I met someone last weekend that pograms 3-d models for CNC machines they said they could teach me the programs, I so need the hands on.... my light isn't to bright if you know what I mean.

[CNC Carver]

Check this tips and tricks out for help. http://www.carvewright.com/assets/tips/CarveWrightTips_and_Tricks_Apr08.pdf


I'm a little mixed up on making a sled, I'm not lazy... as usual I don't understand the tolerences that we are allowed, the height, width and length, and the thicknes on the top board, and when doing a .25 broard do you have to use another .25 to make up for the .5 height tolerance... would it be posible to get these measurements for the sled...Iv'e had this machine going on 8 months and thought I would be farther along on learning the buttons than I am, I met someone last weekend that pograms 3-d models for CNC machines they said they could teach me the programs, I so need the hands on.... my light isn't to bright if you know what I mean.

[Proctorw]

Lawrence if you are going to the conference, any chance of you "showing off" your sled? This will be my 1st conference and it would be really cool if folks would display not only some of their projects, but also some of their "home grown" tools such as the sled. I have now had my CW almost 3 months and have learned a great deal from these forums. I am looking forward toward learning more in person.

[lawrence]

I REALLY wish I were going but my work schedule just isn't allowing me to attend (I'm retiring in November from the Air Force)

I'm happy to answer any questions I can- the concept is really pretty simple and it actually works well.

Lawrence

[chebytrk]

Hellloooooo. I guess if would have gone to the beginning of this thread....... Sorry... my bad. :rolleyes:

Not sure if anyone has asked, but do you have a pdf on your sled that's in that youtube video? Looks pretty simple, but just thinking of those that like pics & instructions. It's really Michael Tyler's fault since his POM pdfs are right on the money! LOL :D


I REALLY wish I were going but my work schedule just isn't allowing me to attend (I'm retiring in November from the Air Force)

I'm happy to answer any questions I can- the concept is really pretty simple and it actually works well.

Lawrence

[lawrence]

no pdf or even build pics. I really did make this one by the seat of my pants. I didn't even know if it would work when I was making it (it does, quite well)

I do plan, however, to make another (lighter) one in the future and will try to document this one better.

Lawrence

[bergerud]

Check out these T-slot bits and T-slot inserts. I think these could be quite useful in the sled design. One can use the keyhole feature to cut rows of slots in the adjustable floor. The floor could be like the tables of all of those other CNC machines.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=51233&cat=1,46168,69435,46176&ap=1

I bought one of these bits and a bag of inserts.

[lawrence]

We are both thinking in the same line. My next iteration (I hope) will include something similar to those-- I've also been considering how to "clamp" the pieces and I believe that the CW could create ramped cam locks which could then be used on the sled... My brain is certainly going in circles on the best way to accomplish it.

Another method I've considered is a "self centering" type of mechanism under the floor that would work similar to one of this
http://www.amazon.com/PanaVise-376-Self-Centering-Extra-Opening/dp/B0000WUHWE
to self center left and right and front to back...

thanks for the tip though- your work is definitely an inspiration to me to think out of the box a bit.

Lawrence

[bergerud]

The T-slots would not be that useful for clamping down the board alone. The T-slots would be better used to hold more elaborate clamps that clamp the board. The fun would be experimenting with different types of clamps. That is a good idea, a self centering clamp. Or a clamp which allows for the board to be inserted and removed from the sled without having to release the sled. Or clamps to hold odd shapes and so on...

[Dan-Woodman]

Lee Valley also has Handscrew kits. These are threaded rods with half right hand and the other half lefthand threads, which when turned one direction would tighten and turned the other direction would loosen while centering your board in the middle.http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=69826&cat=1,43838,47843

[dcalvin4]

how bout this http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31162&cat=1,43293,31162
(http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31162&cat=1,43293,31162)denny

[Dan-Woodman]

You would always have a threaded rod sticking out of all sides , plus you would still have to center it in your sled. With the handscrews added to your sled, you could take a scrap 1x4 , drill a hole in the bottom for the handscrew dowel, and if you cut out a V-notch in each side of the 1x4's you could clamp square or even round pieces of wood in your sled. The right and left handed thread on each handscrew makes it really easy to center your wood block. You would only need one threaded rod down the middle of your sled, then attach a 1x4 to each dowel coming off the threaded rod.

[karossii]

I'm just commenting here to bookmark this thread for ideas. I'm about to start making an adjstable sled for myself, and the more ideas I get, the better!

[lawrence]

Thanks! If you have any questions please feel free to post them or PM me (I still lurk here and read the forum quite often as I am still learning a lot from you guys)

Glad you found the idea interesting enough to bookmark the thread,

Lawrence

[karossii]

My only two concerns would be that (1) I always (at least so far) select center on board when I carve. I have never yet set on corner, so I wouldn't know which corner it references, and I don't really want to try to jog to position. So how easy is it to reliably get the board in the center of the sled? And (2), I don't know if this is just *MY* machine, or if it is just *ME*, but it seems like to me whenever I have too heavy and/or long of a board in the machine, I fairly consistently get errors - tracking roller, board sensor, etc. SO I want to make sure that the sled is not too hefty.

As of now, I have no jointer or planer, so I only buy S4S (rarely S2S) wood; and while there is some variation, it is pretty consistently .51", .632", and .747" - I know that it should be other thicknesses than that, but that is what I have had for the majority of the boards I've gotten. I prefer 12" width (11.23"), but also get 10" (9.33"), 8" (7.48"), and sometimes 4" (3.5"). And I have a bunch of scarps of 2x4s laying around, and have thought of trying some double sided carves on them, especially now that I have a long 1/16" carving bit. Most of the projects I carve are 12" long or less, but I have had a few upwards of 36" long, and one at 54" long (not counting the extra 7"). So I have put a great variety of board sizes through my machine, and assume I will continue to do so. I haven't yet found a niche product to carve.

I have done a few lithos, I have some 8x10 1/4" corian, and for that I simply carved a 1/4" deep rectangle into a 15" long 1x12... I wouldn't call it a sled as much as a carrier board. So far that is the closest I have come to using a sled though.

But I am now starting to use less scrap wood and cheap off the shelf big box store wood, and I have been buying some nicer boards from a local lumber supply company. So with the added expense for the wood, I think I really need to get a sled of some sort built.

Sorry for the rambling, just getting some thoughts out. And who knows, maybe it will help you to give me some good advice, lol!

[CNC Carver]

Glad you are still lurking around. I for one have missed your knowledge.


Thanks! If you have any questions please feel free to post them or PM me (I still lurk here and read the forum quite often as I am still learning a lot from you guys)

Glad you found the idea interesting enough to bookmark the thread,

Lawrence

[mikemi]

Glad you are still lurking around. I for one have missed your knowledge.

You can add me to that list.

Mike

[sunmiztres]

I used this sled in my "ornament" video last year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s81QWZn-8A&list=UU3tNEUF8NxlRATN8plvTCmw&index=7&feature=plcp
this was before I put on the end plates, and some tape was required... I know better now :smile:

Thanks again all, and please (of course) feel free to copy and improve on (as long as you share your experiences!), this idea.

Lawrence

I am just a tad confused on what is written above about using tape before you added the end plates. Do you have to now that you have end plates? I saw the ornament video with the tape but now wonder if you have to? Thanks for sharing your Sled. I also looked at your Wood working portfolio. Beautiful Work.

[lawrence]

nope, the tape is no longer required as long as you use board "ends" which both act as a visual cue to the sensor and also prevent racking of the sled. At the time I made the video, I didn't have the complete concept wrapped around my noggin.

Sorry for the confusion, but in the end, the sled as shown at the beginning of this post was pretty effective and did not require tape to be used other than the double stick tape I would use to mount the workpiece. (and of course masking tape on the bottom of the sled for the roller!)

Lawrence

[sunmiztres]

nope, the tape is no longer required as long as you use board "ends" which both act as a visual cue to the sensor and also prevent racking of the sled. At the time I made the video, I didn't have the complete concept wrapped around my noggin.

Sorry for the confusion, but in the end, the sled as shown at the beginning of this post was pretty effective and did not require tape to be used other than the double stick tape I would use to mount the workpiece. (and of course masking tape on the bottom of the sled for the roller!)

Lawrence

I just got through making a nice sled like yours but as soon as I went to use it the CW read the width and got caught reading the railings at 1 1/4 inches. I had to use tape from the railing to the center piece to get it to read the entire width. Where did I go wrong? Is the railings suppose to be no wider then a certain measurement? That is the only thing I can think of. I am right now trying to wrap my head around how the CW measures so I don't have to use tape other then the double sided tape. Any help would be appreciated on why the CW is seeing my width of the railing.

It sounds like you might have made a different sled then the one you are talking about above as the way you worded "the sled as shown at the beginning of this post was pretty effective." Did you? Would love to hear about it.
Thank You.

[bergerud]

You could put some black tape or black paint on your railing to make it appear narrower to the optic sensor.

[karossii]

I haven't made one yet, so I could be wrong... But from what I've seen, the rails should be no more than 1", and 3/4" is usually better.

[sunmiztres]

I haven't made one yet, so I could be wrong... But from what I've seen, the rails should be no more than 1", and 3/4" is usually better.

This is what I was thinking but never read how wide they should be to keep the CW from picking them up. I will cut them down and see if it works. Thanks

[sunmiztres]

You could put some black tape or black paint on your railing to make it appear narrower to the optic sensor.

Hmmm interesting. Will give this a shot also.

[unitedcases]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/18/4ad707f7dff72e95667bb5dec9985e69.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/18/1f5f2955f85fb644729880be95df2030.jpg

Here is how I do it. I made mine 14.5 wide do that way I can max it out with the widest boards possible. I used a t track cutter to make some slots and bought some special rectangular nuts. Works great. Any size wood. I am about to make some longer ones.

[ladjr]

Does the CNC have any problem with the sled wider than your board

[lawrence]

for me, I got around the initial measurement by having the board measure width with the sled just inside the machine (the 4 inch rails give enough space to do so)

I'm not using them anymore as I no longer use my carvewright, so I have no clue if things have changed to make this still feasible.

Hope this helps,
Lawrence

[karossii]

I have a question - if I use 3/4" thick MDF for my sled rails, which is pretty near exactly 0.75" thick, and then put one-by lumber in it, which varies from 0.64 to -.725" thick in my experience, is there an issue with measuring the project boards? As long as I use jog to position to measure the depth, will it work alright?

Also, will a melamine base (white side down) alleviate the need for masking tape on the bottom of the sled?

[lynnfrwd]

Melamine may be slicker and make the tape more necessary.

[karossii]

I suppose that makes sense.

I am too used to using tape on the tops of boards to fool the photosensor, I was assuming that is why we also use it on the bottom. But of course I know there isn't a photosensor down there, lol... just one of those stupid things that made sense at the time, but not sure why or how in hindsight.

Although, while it is generally slicker, I do have the rubber belts, and it might actually provide good grip on those. But I don't know how it would interact with the tracking roller itself.

[fwharris]

I would stay away from having the white (slick) side down. If you do tape will be a must have for the brass roller edge.

When you state "jog to position to measure depth" are you talking about the board thickness measuring step? If so it should be no problem. You might get a message asking about "project or board" if you are doing any cut paths.

Depending on how you have the sled made up, how you place the board in the sled and how you tell the machine how you want the carving placed it will more than likely try to measure the board plus the sled for both the length and width.

[unitedcases]

My first few sleds were of Melamine. Had to use tape and eventually the tape gums up and just makes a mess, plus they are heavy. I use the 15 inch wide aspen boards from lowes. I rip a 1/2 off and have the machine do all the holes and the grooves in the top. I then go back with a T track bit and cut the slot for the rectangular nut. Works like a champ for me. Then the measuring tape, (width wise), helps when I want to do a more narrow project. When I load the project I put the actual project piece under the sensor. For my design I dont use the sled. Just the actual carving and then close as necessary digital board.

[karossii]

Floyd (et al), if the rails of my sled are slightly higher than the project board, from 0.025" to 0.11" higher (based on my experiences with bix-box dimensional lumber thickness variances), will that cause issues when I carve/cut? I know the base of the sled would cause the machine to think the whole thing is thicker than it is, and I will have to do any cutouts to project (designer) thickness rather than board (with sled) thickness.

Just concerned about the tops of the rails not matching the top of the project board.

[unitedcases]

I know your asking Floyd but the answer is your fine as long as you jog to touch the actual board itself.

[karossii]

I was just replying to Floyd's reply to me - the question(s) are open to being answered by all who know! Thanks!

[unitedcases]

For some reason my lumber yard could never give me 3/4 material. So I put 7/8 rails on my sled. Of course after I made that mod they started getting it right.

[fwharris]

I know your asking Floyd but the answer is your fine as long as you jog to touch the actual board itself.

Correct! :)

[bergerud]

I do remember that there is a limit to how much lower than the side rails one can go to touch the board. Not much more than 1/4" if I recall. The machine knows about how much lower the board surface should be below the bit plate. If the bit dives too low before touching the board, you get a reload bit (or some other such) error.

Remember the problem of trying to touch in an already carved region?

[carrothers]

I built the 3/4 inch MDF with the two T tracks with 3.5" boards on either end. I have two "sets of 3.5 boards"...one is half inch thick and the other is 1/4 and they are designed so that I can stack them in case my carve board is .75 thick. I have a question on how the CW finds the depth when I'm using the sled...if the z drive comes over to the key pad side it will not find my carve board. I see some comments about jogging to position to find the depth...when do you jog, how do you jog. thanks.

[unitedcases]

When I load mine I put the back tail under the sensor. So it always measures 14.5 as all my sleds are max width. I just center the board and tell the machine to center.

[carrothers]

74377Here is a picture of the sled I just finished...it's 48 inches long and 14 inches wide. I built the 3.5 ends in two thicknesses...one is 1/4 inch thick and the other is 1/2 inch thick. I designed it so I could put the two together in case I have a 3/4 inch carving board. I used quarter 20 threaded with a phillips flush head to hold down the end pieces into the embedded tracks. Making another one that will be 36 inches long and 10 wide for smaller carves.

[bergerud]

I have a question on how the CW finds the depth when I'm using the sled...if the z drive comes over to the key pad side it will not find my carve board. I see some comments about jogging to position to find the depth...when do you jog, how do you jog. thanks.

You can set the default so that it always asks to jog to touch position or you can just press stop as it goes for the touch. You will then get the option to jog to touch. You can the press the arrow keys to touch where ever you want.

[carrothers]

You can set the default so that it always asks to jog to touch position or you can just press stop as it goes for the touch. You will then get the option to jog to touch. You can the press the arrow keys to touch where ever you want.

can you help with a real beginners question: Where and how do you set the default? I would rather do that than hit the stop button...in the past when I hit the stop button I had to start everything all over...measurements, bit checks, etc.

[bergerud]

0 - 5 on the keypad. The stop button is good. Just try it.

[chebytrk]

74377Here is a picture of the sled I just finished...it's 48 inches long and 14 inches wide. I built the 3.5 ends in two thicknesses...one is 1/4 inch thick and the other is 1/2 inch thick. I designed it so I could put the two together in case I have a 3/4 inch carving board. I used quarter 20 threaded with a phillips flush head to hold down the end pieces into the embedded tracks. Making another one that will be 36 inches long and 10 wide for smaller carves.

Where did you get the embedded tracks and rough cost on them please............ Tnx

[chebytrk]

can you help with a real beginners question: Where and how do you set the default? I would rather do that than hit the stop button...in the past when I hit the stop button I had to start everything all over...measurements, bit checks, etc.

If you hit the STOP button only once, that should work fine. If you hit it two times, then you'll have to start everything over again. Just think of the STOP button as a Pause button, ONLY if you hit it one (1) time. To start everything back again, you'll need to hit the START button (2) two times.

[carrothers]

I got the tracks from Woodcrafters...I think the 48 inch was $13 each...if I make another one it will be with 36 inch tracks. Woodcrafters also sell the little slot pieces; but I had to go to Home Depot to get the 1 inch quarter twenty bolts with phillips head that I used.