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View Full Version : broke my 1/8 cutting bit...thinking about my replacement options



dltccf
09-05-2012, 09:38 AM
I broke my 1/8 inch cutting bit. I was looking at my replacement options and was leaning toward getting the 3/16 cutting bit instead and possibly adding the 1/16 to go with it for times when the 3/16 is too big. Could someone who has the different bit types please comment on the pros and cons? If you have two or all three, which one is your "go to" bit that you wouldn't do without?

I also looked at some other options like cw-parts.com. How well do his bits work in a version c machine?

dave

easybuilt
09-05-2012, 09:55 AM
The 3/16 is a good option with the CarveTight but carbide bits do break.
Consider cutting less deep with each the max. pass depth. Maybe .125 for each cut should save your bits. cw-parts has great bits but they still break under pressure.

DickB
09-05-2012, 10:56 AM
I definitely recommend the 3/16" cutting bit and that is my go-to bit for cutouts unless I need the precision. But I still will make three passes (1/4" max cut) in hard maple and oak. I do use the 1/8" bit to cut gears, but generally they are cut from 1/4" Baltic Birch, so I'm not concerned with cutting in one pass and suffered no broken bits. You might find that you need both bits. The 1/16" can only cut thin stock and I don't have a need for that bit.

Bits break for a lot of reasons. If there is an x- or y-axis issue with your machine even a 3/16" bit can break. You should try to determine the cause of the breakage before replacing bits.

dltccf
09-05-2012, 11:02 AM
The 3/16 is a good option with the CarveTight but carbide bits do break.
Consider cutting less deep with each the max. pass depth. Maybe .125 for each cut should save your bits. cw-parts has great bits but they still break under pressure.

I already do set max depth, It broke because the right door sensor said closed and the left didn't so it started moving across the wood without the cut motor running and broke off.

So if you were only going to order one cutting bit would it be the 1/8 or 3/16? Does the 3/16 cut at the same speed as the 1/8?

edzbaker
09-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Dave, A few weeks back, Sears was practically giving the 1/8 cutting bits away. When you could find them in the stores they were $1.87 ea . (Our local sears had NONE) Now the cheapest I find the 1/8 bit for is on ebay, at $18.00 + $2.75 shipping. That is a Bare Bit.

dltccf
09-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Dave, A few weeks back, Sears was practically giving the 1/8 cutting bits away. When you could find them in the stores they were $1.87 ea . (Our local sears had NONE) Now the cheapest I find the 1/8 bit for is on ebay, at $18.00 + $2.75 shipping. That is a Bare Bit.

I know, timing is everything. I did get the other bit set that sears was closing out a couple of months ago though.

cestout
09-05-2012, 03:07 PM
In my opinion, you need the 1/8 in bit fore more accurate cutouts. The 3/16 bit would would be good to have for non detail cuts like rounds or rectangles etc. If you save the broken CT bit and press the bit out of the collar, you can press a bare bit or old QC bit into it.
Clint

mtylerfl
09-11-2012, 01:50 PM
... If you save the broken CT bit and press the bit out of the collar, you can press a bare bit or old QC bit into it.
Clint

Hi Clint,

How do we press the old bit out and the new bit into the collar? Do we need to purchase a special tool for that?

dltccf
09-11-2012, 03:30 PM
In my opinion, you need the 1/8 in bit fore more accurate cutouts. The 3/16 bit would would be good to have for non detail cuts like rounds or rectangles etc. If you save the broken CT bit and press the bit out of the collar, you can press a bare bit or old QC bit into it.
Clint

Is there a speed difference in cutting with the 3/16 vs. the 1/8th? I was thinking there was and it would therefore be better to have the 3/16 for speed and the 1/16 for detail?

And I did save the broken bit, how do you go about pressing it in and out?

dave

chief2007
09-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Really not too much difference in cutting speeds, I would still recommend cutting using multi passes as you would do with the 1/8 bit.

I have an arbor press I use to press bits into the carvetight adapter. I use permanent loctite on the adapter and then press the bit in. Let them set for a day and your ready to carve. I just did 4 bits today.

I knock out the broken bits with a punch and hammer after heating the adapter first.

mtylerfl
09-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Is there a speed difference in cutting with the 3/16 vs. the 1/8th? I was thinking there was and it would therefore be better to have the 3/16 for speed and the 1/16 for detail?

And I did save the broken bit, how do you go about pressing it in and out?

dave

Hi Dave,

The 1/16" CUTTING bit is only suitable for cutting out thin material (.25" or less in thickness).

You need the 1/8" CUTTING bit for cutting through material up to 1" thick. Ditto for the 3/16" CUTTING bit. Only you can decide whether the 3/16" CUTTING bit would be suitable for a particular project...it all depends on what it is you are cutting out and whether or not it would "chew away" material you wish to keep! I honestly don't know for sure if the feed rate is faster for the larger bit or not. Someone from CarveWright can answer that question.

I keep both the 1/8" CUTTING bits and the 3/16" CUTTING bits on hand. However, I have not used the 3/16" CUTTING bit so far, because most of my projects are not suited for the larger diameter/kerf.

lynnfrwd
09-11-2012, 04:16 PM
Is there a speed difference in cutting with the 3/16 vs. the 1/8th? I was thinking there was and it would therefore be better to have the 3/16 for speed and the 1/16 for detail?

Let's don't confuse the 3/16" carving and the 3/16" cutting.

3/16" carving is faster that 1/16" carving, but less detail.
3/16" cutting is a little bit faster than the 1/8" cutting bit when doing full cut with one pass. If doing multi-pass cuts with 1/8", than the 3/16" in one pass is definitely faster.



And I did save the broken bit, how do you go about pressing it in and out?


Needless to say.....WE DON'T ADVISE THIS!!

mtylerfl
09-11-2012, 04:38 PM
Let's don't confuse the 3/16" carving and the 3/16" cutting.



Ha! That's why I did ALL CAPS for CUTTING in post #11 above. I wasn't sure if he was getting his wires crossed on the cutting/carving bits or not.:)

dltccf
09-12-2012, 10:16 AM
So I went into Lowes last night since they list the carving bit on their website for $28 along with other stuff at decent prices to see what they would do about getting the cutting bit. The guy actually let me take over his employee computer and search through their database to find what they had available. We found a code for ordering special orders of carvewright stuff but not the 1/8 cutting bit. They wrote everything down and promised me they would call LHR today about getting the bit. It would be nice to see Lowes getting the newer bits into their inventory. Does LHR have an agreement with Lowes for all your products or just some?

dave

lynnfrwd
09-12-2012, 11:51 AM
Machine, 1/16" carving, 1/8" cutting (don't know why it wasn't there), memory card, programmer, probe & decorative bit set. All are special order products and not carried in-stock. Would be nice for us too, if every Lowes had inventory!!

lynnfrwd
09-12-2012, 02:51 PM
Hey Dave:

Got the call from Lowes, but he kept telling me you wanted the 1/8" carving bit, which isn't sold through Lowes (only LHR).

dltccf
09-12-2012, 03:49 PM
Machine, 1/16" carving, 1/8" cutting (don't know why it wasn't there), memory card, programmer, probe & decorative bit set. All are special order products and not carried in-stock. Would be nice for us too, if every Lowes had inventory!!

Well, that is part of the reason I decided to ask them, better for LHR if Lowes carries your stuff or at least has more of your line available for order and better for me as a customer because it is easier access to the product. Maybe if enough of us ask our local store it will percolate up the chain?

I did notice that the carving bit they list has the picture of the old type, If I order one from them which version do I get?

dave

cestout
09-14-2012, 01:10 PM
MT, My son works runs the body shop for the KC135s and C17s at March ARB. He took them the their machine shop. If you know some one in a home town type auto parts place, they should have a press. If you have other uses beyond pressing a few bits, Harbor Freight has them for no too much. I did the first one with a hammer, punch, and vise set open enough so the bit would fit thru and the collar rested on the top.
Clint

mtylerfl
09-14-2012, 04:16 PM
Thanks, Clint. I think I'll let LHR do mine (i.e., order bits with the collars already pressed on)...nervous about hitting a carbide bit with a hammer. :)

BlueRocco
10-14-2012, 11:38 AM
Why doesn't the 1/4" Collet work for these? Is it not tight enough?

Digitalwoodshop
10-14-2012, 12:15 PM
Something to do with the hardness and the Collet inability to crimp tight enought.....


AL

Jeff_Birt
10-14-2012, 01:02 PM
Pressing the adapter sleeves off and re-using them is not a good idea. You will introduce a LOT of run out (wobble) in the bit. When adapter bushing like this are pressed on at the factory a special fixture is used to hold the bushings squarely in place and to guide the bit as it is pressed into the bushing. This is the only way to do an accurate job.

Digitalwoodshop
10-14-2012, 01:31 PM
Pressing the adapter sleeves off and re-using them is not a good idea. You will introduce a LOT of run out (wobble) in the bit. When adapter bushing like this are pressed on at the factory a special fixture is used to hold the bushings squarely in place and to guide the bit as it is pressed into the bushing. This is the only way to do an accurate job.

Plus 1 on that too... Tapping one on could introduce runout...

AL

PCW
10-14-2012, 02:34 PM
Something that may work for reassembly is... freezing the bit in the freezer then warm the bushing up in pan of oil. When assembled back together the bit should drop right in bushing then let cool. We use to do this in the shop with bearings and bushings.

bergerud
10-14-2012, 02:35 PM
Pressing the adapter sleeves off and re-using them is not a good idea. You will introduce a LOT of run out (wobble) in the bit. When adapter bushing like this are pressed on at the factory a special fixture is used to hold the bushings squarely in place and to guide the bit as it is pressed into the bushing. This is the only way to do an accurate job.

I disagree that pressing the adapters on and off will cause any significant run out. There is a run out from the loose fit of the adapter into the CT which dwarfs any bit to adapter run out. A friend of mine has a CT and I do not know if they are all like his but, I can see the bit wobble. Remember how nicely the carving bits fit into the QC adapters? It was a nice close fit. Does your CT adapter fit as snugly into your CT? I believe this loose fit along with the clamping from the side is the real source of run out.

Sorry to rant but the whole run out thing is a sore point with me. I changed a long time ago to the ER collet system.

(My advice to CT users would be to rotate your bit once in a while so the bit wears evenly.)

henry1
10-14-2012, 05:35 PM
I have to agree with PCW that will work and trust me I have been there, way ago pcw

Jeff_Birt
10-15-2012, 09:50 AM
I disagree that pressing the adapters on and off will cause any significant run out.

Everyone is free to do what you want with your own machine but I am quite certain that what I said is correct. I don't want to make a big deal out of it but saving a few $ by trying to reuse the bushings way wind up cost more money in the long run as the bits will wear out faster and the wear on your spindle will be increased. Again, everyone is free to do what pleases them I just want to make sure that the pros and cons of trying to reuse the bushings are known so everyone can make an informed decision.

I talked with a tool manufacturer who spent several thousand dollars developing the fixture that let them press the bits into the bushings with minimal run-out. They had to do this to keep the run-out low enough to have a usable bit. I am also very confident in this manufacturers ability to measure run out very accurately as I built part of the laser micrometer system they use.

mtylerfl
10-15-2012, 11:42 AM
I disagree that pressing the adapters on and off will cause any significant run out. There is a run out from the loose fit of the adapter into the CT which dwarfs any bit to adapter run out. A friend of mine has a CT and I do not know if they are all like his but, I can see the bit wobble. Remember how nicely the carving bits fit into the QC adapters? It was a nice close fit. Does your CT adapter fit as snugly into your CT? I believe this loose fit along with the clamping from the side is the real source of run out.

Sorry to rant but the whole run out thing is a sore point with me. I changed a long time ago to the ER collet system.

(My advice to CT users would be to rotate your bit once in a while so the bit wears evenly.)

Now you have me very curious...I have never noticed any wobble using the CT...and, there is no loose fit either. In fact, it is snug as all get out. So, I'm really not sure what's up with your friend's CT...doesn't sound right to me. (There should be no wobble or looseness of fit in the CT.)

I do enjoy the ER collet system on my ShopBot machine. I recall you had posted about the modification some time ago. Do you have a link to that info?

bergerud
10-15-2012, 01:18 PM
Now you have me very curious...I have never noticed any wobble using the CT...and, there is no loose fit either. In fact, it is snug as all get out. So, I'm really not sure what's up with your friend's CT...doesn't sound right to me. (There should be no wobble or looseness of fit in the CT.)


Interesting that your adapter fits snugly in your CT. Maybe there is a variation in CTs and/or adapter diameters. Now I am going have to go back to my friends machine and remeasure things. I do recall that the adapter diameter was slightly less than 1/2" whereas the bore of the CT , I think, was 1/2". Maybe you could measure your adapter diameter. Because of the side dog clamping design, any difference in diameter would result in a run out of the same magnitude. (Even if the fit were snug, the compression and distortion of the adapter and CT during tightening would cause run outs greater than any adapter to bit run out.)

CNC Carver
10-15-2012, 01:33 PM
I ordered from lowes and was able to specify carve tight chuck. LHR called to confirm before they shipped order for Lowes. Price was much better from Lowes shipped to store for free.


Well, that is part of the reason I decided to ask them, better for LHR if Lowes carries your stuff or at least has more of your line available for order and better for me as a customer because it is easier access to the product. Maybe if enough of us ask our local store it will percolate up the chain?

I did notice that the carving bit they list has the picture of the old type, If I order one from them which version do I get?

dave

nuchie
10-16-2012, 01:49 PM
What did you order? (Part #, Item) How much did it cost? I need 1/8 cutting bit. I have C machine with carve tight spindle. Does LHR have a web site?

lynnfrwd
10-16-2012, 02:04 PM
What did you order? (Part #, Item) How much did it cost? I need 1/8 cutting bit. I have C machine with carve tight spindle. Does LHR have a web site?


http://store.carvewright.com/home.php?cat=291

Ropdoc
11-04-2012, 08:38 AM
Hello Folks,

I broke my 3/16 bit and need to replace. I do not want to order and wait. I am going to call around and need all details. I have a 1/4" split collar.

What is the total required length of the bit? Carbide OK for the Split collar? Is 2 Flutes OK. Needs to be an Up Spiral. And of course a 1/4" shank. Did I forget anything?

I thank you for you advice.

Dave

lynnfrwd
11-04-2012, 09:29 AM
In the machine? Or you dropped it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ropdoc
11-04-2012, 10:14 AM
I did not set the depth and it was 70% thru cutting and thought I would like it go. I have been setting the depth to .325 for the 3/16 cutter and had no problem. But some reason I forgot and it bit me. Totally my fault. Now my wife is telling me that stuff should be under warranty. Can you tell she3 doesn't get it. But I am headed to Sears to buy hopefully several.