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View Full Version : A couple of finishing questions



Geophyrd
07-30-2012, 01:19 PM
So, working on a complex carving. It carved fine and looked fine. Then I went to finish it. I put on some wood stain (a dark oak gel stain) that almost instantly went to nearly black. I tried rubbing it off, but didn't do much. Used some Mineral Spirits which lighted it a little bit but trying to rub on carvings really doesn't work very well.

Once done, I put semi-gloss polyurethane down, two coats. i didn't like how the finish turned out and thought it looked too dark. The carving figures were sun and moon so I crumbled up some gold leaf and applied it with a third coat. Will post pictures later or tomm.

So far as I know, there's no great way to fix this..it feels a little rough to the touch. Here's my questions:

* If I decide to lay a gloss finish on top of the semi gloss finish, do I have to worry about peeling?
* Since I already polyed the surface (yep, not sure if that's a verb either), can I still paint on top of the carving if I lay down another coat?
* Does anyone have a working technique to make a piece larger than 15" wide? I saw one as a 'tip and technique' making a big sign, but I'm not sure if I followed how to do it.

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

Bigtyme
07-30-2012, 01:46 PM
Hi Geophyrd,
There are still some missing pieces needed to try to help answer your questions....What wood type were you carving? Soft wood soaks up stain a lot easier and a lot more than hardwood. Also was the gel stain water or oil based? If it were water based, it would explain the roughness in the wood as the water based stains will "raise the grain" unlike oil based... I try to use a piece of scrap as a test piece before committing to finishing the project....

Bigtyme
07-30-2012, 02:01 PM
Also, in regard to adding different finishes over the top of others, I would be careful to not mix oil based and water based finishes whether stains or paints, but I understand that technically as long as the underlying finish is fully cured, the next layer can be about any type of finish....

lawrence
07-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Also, in regard to adding different finishes over the top of others, I would be careful to not mix oil based and water based finishes whether stains or paints, but I understand that technically as long as the underlying finish is fully cured, the next layer can be about any type of finish....

...you're spot on as far as cure goes-- Marc Spag over at the woodwhisperer did some great "field grade" testing a while back and modern finishes adhere well.

If you'd like to be a bit more cautious though, (and I usually do) a thin layer of super-blonde shellac will adhere to basically anything and will allow basically anything to adhere to it. I mix my own and it is VERY easy to do.

The only exception that I can think of right off hand is heavy waxing, which can be removed with "wax wash" or a similar product from an auto parts store.

As for the poly, feel free to add/change sheens of poly, the only coat that matters is the final coat as it determines the sheen of the finish.

Lawrence

cestout
07-30-2012, 04:40 PM
End grain sucks up stain, especially soft wood like pine.,and pine has pockets of pitch that react with the stain, so use pre stain conditioner. As for the wide carving, that Tips & Tricks is the method I think everyone is using. The Idea is the project is designed larger than the board with part hanging off the bottom of the first board and off the top of the second board. You glue them together like if you were making a poster from several printed pages - lining up the design.
Clint

Geophyrd
07-31-2012, 05:46 AM
The board was oak. Wierdly, so were the legs and they came out more or less fine (I've posted already that some of the patterns got moved and/or stretched). The pictures below are from before the gold leaf. Will post pics with the gold leaf tomm if anyone is interested to see

I'm almost to the point where I'm nearly OK with this one. its a learning project. I'm going to put a coat of gloss poly on tonight after light sanding and see how it goes. If I don't like it for the bed, it can go on the wall as art. But the next one... btw, 'but the next one' has become my mantra.

Still have the question about how you rub off stain on complex carvings. Any thoughts?

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Bigtyme
07-31-2012, 07:02 AM
Thanks for posting the pictures. Those are really nice carvings. I think the carving operation opened up the pores in the wood (which is not unusual for oak as well as pine) and given it is a darker stain, the result is as you have shown. Even the intricate carvings on the legs have some of the darker characteristics of the larger carvings. Many times porous woods call for a sealer to be applied first to help even out the stain look. All the more reason to use a test piece to evaluate the stain before committing to the entire project. As far as how to rub out the stain on carvings, I would suggest once the stain is on for a period of time (this is up to your taste for the resultant color) I use a soft cloth to rub out the excess and blend in the stain over the carving. A somewhat bulky cloth can usually get into the nooks and crannies of the most intricate carving. I have also used q-tips for the really tough areas to reach to help make the stain uniform across the piece.
I would like to see pictures of the gold leaf, if you don't mind posting them. I bet it really adds to the carvings....

easybuilt
07-31-2012, 08:16 AM
That is looking really unique and I sue like your ideas. Looking forward to seeing the gold leaf.

Geophyrd
07-31-2012, 08:26 AM
That is looking really unique and I sue like your ideas. Looking forward to seeing the gold leaf.

I'll post pictures of the gold leaf....a little of that REALLY goes a LONG way. In one of the pictures, you can see the headboard I'm going to mount that insert to. Going to put a piece of wood in as a separator so it will appear to float. Around that wood will be LED lights, which will cause the sign to glow. The paint on the back of the headboard has reflective bits in it so I'm hoping the light will pop enough to make reading in bed a possibility.

Geophyrd
08-01-2012, 05:36 AM
Here it is...I put a coat of high gloss on it last night, but its still a little rough. Might sand and steel wool it before putting a last coat on.

55080

easybuilt
08-01-2012, 08:03 AM
That looks great! Nice job.

lawrence
08-01-2012, 08:16 AM
Those are some really nice looking carvings and I look forward to your final product.

As an aside, I see you had some head breaking when you put in your brass screws. It helps a LOT if you drill pilot holes, then drive a harder (steel, zinc etc) screw into the pilot hole with a little paraffin on it. Then remove the steel screw and drive the brass screw (with a hand screwdriver). The screw will hold better and you'll never have another breakage. The only big negative I've had is that if the screws are not threaded exactly the same it is difficult to "clock" the screws properly (make the heads all line up the same way) but with phillips drive screws I rarely clock anyway so this is not a deal breaker for me.

All in all though, those are some really nice carvings and I can't wait to see pics of the final table

Lawrence