power fluctuation

[rickyz]

in the five years i've owned my machine, i've never come across this problem. after about 50percent of the carve, the machine keeps stopping and saying a power fluctuation. I hit enter and it will keep carving for a little bit, maybe a couple minutes then the same thing again... I'm about 65% into the carve and it's driving me nuts. it's a recon that I bought a couple months ago... any help would be greatly appreciated... it is a second machine. never had this problem in five years....

[gwizpro]

Holy Cow, Mine did the exact same thing yesterday, I would hit enter , it would carve a lil bit then code out again I kept hitting enter and it finally finished the carve.

I think some software engineer is messing with us....

I checked L2, all solder connections on the power supply board and checked incoming power, all stable and good. This is a C machine....

I think this is part of the upcoming Zombie Apocalypse.

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Most Common reason for this is a Bad L2 Coil in the Power Supply. The L2 Coil is just some copper wire like 14 gage house wire wound around a ferrite core. It acts as a filter to AC Noise on the DC Power Output. The coil is glued to the board but over time if not glued well enough the heavy weight of it moving as the machine vibrates especially after a QC is worn out and the machine has more vibration. If you took 14 gage house wire and bent it in your hand over and over, it would change color to a lighter color and SNAP... This is what has happened to your machine. The Wire Snaps below the surface of the board where it is bent over on the back side of the board and soldered. In my pictures you can see where I push on the Coil with a pen and the broken wire comes out of the hole in the circuit board like a Carrot being pulled...


The L2 Coil is in the Final Output of the Power Supply and is much like the Ferrite you see on the End of a Laptop Power Supply wire. That is why the power goes out.... then comes back on....

A Electronic TV Repair Shop can fix it quick for you.... Print the Pictures for them. OR order a new one from LHR. IF you have 2 machines you can swap the Power Supply and see the symptom move.


Good Luck,


AL

Edit: Just saw the above post.... I type too slow... A Temp FIX for testing the L2 is to solder a Jumper Wire under the board between the 2 pins of L2 ONLY.... It is already a Short... Just a longer wire wound around the Ferrite core.... As the power loops through the turns, the AC Noise Expanding and Contracting Magnetic Fields interact with each other and cancel each other out... The result is Noise Free Power..... Back in the 70's you could buy a 12 volt Filter Coil at Radio Shack to fix the "Whine" of the Alternator in you New CAR RADIO.... Newer Transistor type Car Radios would pick up the NOISE on the 12 volt DC Car Power and as you stepped on the Gas the "Whine" of the Alternator would be picked up by the Radio and you hear it on the Speakers with the Music.... Same Theory..... The Noise Filter eliminated the Noise....

DO this TEMPORARY TEST to Prove that the Wire is BROKEN between the underside Solder Pad and the COIL. Usually as soon as you melt the solder on the underside of the board of the BROKEN LEAD, it will FALL OFF..... Showing you the Broken TIP of the Wire....

BUT.... Things change.... This could be a whole new issue.... That I am just learning about....

I have seen pictures of a different version of the Power Supply, one with a different configuration, and 3 metal bars... Your power supply may not look like this.... All my machines are 2007 "A" Versions....

Let us know....

AL

[chief2007]

I has a similar problem a while back, C version machine - power supply was bad. Luckily I had a spare, put in the new power supply and all is good.

[rickyz]

this one is a b machine that I got for the recon 999.00 price. originally had issues with the on off switch from the get go... thanks everyone for the tips. i'll have to check it out tomorrow. anyone know what a replacement power supply costs just in case I go that route?

[brdad]

I have this problem every so often, and for me it has always been one of the connectors on the power supply board. If I slide it repeatedly on and off several times, the issue disappears. I'm tempted to solder the wires directly onto the posts, or solder in a connector designed to be in the harsher environment the CW creates. Sometimes I wonder if some of these power supplies people are replacing have the same issue and changing the supply restores the connection and nothing was wrong with the supply in the first place. I also thought the power switch got a bad connection once, I took it apart and cleaned it and it worked fine, but looking back that could have moved the power connector enough to reestablish a connection at the connector.

Assuming there are no intermittent physical connection issues on the board itself (as in the case of a broken L1), if you're getting the correct voltage from the supply, I'd gamble the issue was elsewhere. It seems unlikely that the electronics of the supply would have an intermittent fault, more likely it's go or no-go. But anything is possible...

[rickyz]

can I put a power supply from an A machine into a B machine to verify that is the issue? or are they not compatible... would hate to get a new one if there is nothing wrong with this one.... I was first having issues with the actual on/off switch at first. the leads to the switch actually came off in shipping.... as usual, anyone's help is greatly appreciated...

[fwharris]

can I put a power supply from an A machine into a B machine to verify that is the issue? or are they not compatible... would hate to get a new one if there is nothing wrong with this one.... I was first having issues with the actual on/off switch at first. the leads to the switch actually came off in shipping.... as usual, anyone's help is greatly appreciated...

The power supply should work with any version machine.

[rickyz]

well, got around to changing out the power supply. I tested it out with the antique chair frame and got the same error message after it carved the back side and made it to 10 percent of the other side... anyone have any suggestions as to where I can go from here? figures I would have problems with a recon while my a series machine keeps on truckin....

[Digitalwoodshop]

The Connector Plugs to the Power Supply can have a weak Crimp from Wire to Plug.

The On Off Switch could be Intermittant.....

Any chance you got a bad power supply.... I would move the power supply from a Good Machine and see what happens....

AL

[rickyz]

already switched power supplies...thinking about the on/off switch... going to switch that out next... thanks for the info... hope i can get this figured out.....

[katec911]

Mine did the same on my last project. It took me forever to complete my project. I decided to try and replace my flat I think its called the fcc wire. I had to change it in the past when I had a z truck fail, so I used the old one and it worked! LRH will get a phone call tomorrow, I need to order a couple to have on hand. for all the newer folks .. Just don't give up on the machine and the great people on here... you will be very pleased when you iron out the kinks in the machine... but I think everyone had a problem at one time or another!

[rickyz]

well, switched out on/off switch. ran for a while with no problems. now, I've got no power at all... it cut out during carve and won't come back on.... looks like i'll have to ship it back to lhr to get it fixed... and of course since it's a recon, i'm screwed and will have to pay for the repairs....only twelve hours or so on the machine and I didn't get the warranty... I've been able to keep my A machine running for five years now, but this one is beyond me... bummer...

[ladjr]

Just a thought but are the wires to the switch still on, sound like maybe it vibrated lose.

[rickyz]

yep. wires still on. had to crimp them a little so they would stay put. don't know what the heck is going on... hope lhr can figure it out without it costing a fortune. I'll probably wind up paying more than if I just purchased a new one.... typical with my luck... just when I was getting ready to get the new software programs... oh well....

[rickyz]

yep, sending machine back to Lhr to see what's going on.... I guess this recon didn't get tested well enough before being sold. Very frustrated that it's going to wind up costing more than if I had just bought a new one...

[rickyz]

well, sent machine back to lhr. to have them figure it out... 170.00 for shipping. now they say my box and packaging is damaged. This was not the case when it was given to fed-ex. now i'm looking at about another 350.00 to fix. needless to say, i'm very frustrated with lhr. at this point in time. I would have been better off getting a new machine at this point... obviously the recons aren't checked out enough before being released..... very, very upset....

[lawrence]

just as a reminder to everyone-- if you purchased your machine with your credit card, your cc company may double (or in my case sometimes tripple) your factory warranty. It can't hurt anything to give em' a call.

Lawrence

[karossii]

well, sent machine back to lhr. to have them figure it out... 170.00 for shipping. now they say my box and packaging is damaged. This was not the case when it was given to fed-ex. now i'm looking at about another 350.00 to fix. needless to say, i'm very frustrated with lhr. at this point in time. I would have been better off getting a new machine at this point... obviously the recons aren't checked out enough before being released..... very, very upset....I would certainly hope you didn't ship it uninsured - file a claim with FedEx.

[lynnfrwd]

It was shipped UPS, but they will not allow you to claim box damage. Box & inside is not too expensive - less than $50. (Shipping an empty box costs more than buying the box.) Luckily, the machine was ok. I saw your box...it is bad. The whole end is ripped off. Might be a good idea to tape the corners to reinforce them next time.

Remember Rick, that was an ESTIMATE...won't know for sure until they've had a better look at it. They were not aware that you had tested a different power supply and gotten the same results. Wonder if your new power supply would have worked in your A machine. Might be a wire or connector that is bad.

We'll let you know.

Did you ever call in and troubleshoot with a hardware tech on this issue?

[rickyz]

The power supply worked fine with the A machine. that's whats weird, never had a power fluctuation problem before and it worked ok with small 15 minute carves. traded out on off switch too and made no difference. There were no thunderstorms or outlet problems so I am at a loss. Power went out when doing the antique chair picture frame project at about 30 percent into the job....weird....

[chief2007]

Did you put the power supply from the A machine into the one with the problem?

Just curious...

[Digitalwoodshop]

This is a Sad Story.... A Expensive Story too... Many lessons to be learned... I can totally understand getting to the point that you just send the machine in for repair... Since the Power Supply is most suspect here... If I had to do it over again, I would request a 2nd power supply... The L2 Coil on the Replacement could have popped the connection simply from shipping.... But since it worked in another machine then the crimp connectors to the power supply come into play...

So for future users in this same situation....

For "Testing Purposes Only".... ONLY do this IF working on POWER CIRCUITS is within your ABILITY.... PLEASE DON'T GET HURT.... THIS POWER CAN KILL YOU..... Have a 2nd person that can help if something goes wrong ready to un plug the machine quickly.

In review, The L2 Coil on the power supply is a weak link as since it can vibrate, the wire fatigue can cause the wire to snap below the surface of the board. The Power Output goes through the L2 on the way OUT of the Power Supply and that is why when the L2 Wire breaks, the power goes out like a blown fuse....

To TEST a Suspect BAD L2.... I would have someone solder a jumper between the 2 leads of the L2 Coil removing it from the Circuit by adding a Jumper. Since the L2 Coil on the Power Supply is already a Short Circuit in effect.. A Length of solid copper wire like 14 gage house wire wrapped around a ferrite or metal core. The Magic in what it does is that the expanding and collapsing Magnetic Fields of AC or Alternating Current "NOISE" riding on the DC or Direct Current of the power get eliminated when passing through the L2 Coil. By Temporally Shorting the two bottom contacts of the L2 Coil the Noise will not be removed. But during this test you may find the Power Supply is now fixed... As many remember from my posting the pictures many times... The L2 Coil Wires stick through the board from the top and are bent over then Soldered in a Wave Soldering tank. When the vibration causes the power supply L2 to snap, it usually does it where it is bent over inside the board. Seeing it is very difficult... If the process of soldering the bottom Jumper you may find that the snapped off wire from the L2 falls off..... Showing you the problem. Due to the Thickness of the L2 Wire and the thin Solder Pad, this soldering should be done by someone who has the ability. Ripping up the thin copper trace on the circuit board can easily happen, I have done it in my Sony Days...

That leads me to my 2nd thing I would recommend to the next person with this problem... INSPECT the Copper Pads that the L2 pass through and look for hair line cracks.... The pad is a Circle with a hole then a copper trace leading away from the contact moving the voltage to the next point.

The last thing would be to eliminate a bad switch... This was done by swapping the switch.... With no fix.... On another machine I would recommend re crimping the wires to the switch and trace the wires and crimp all the connections to the power supply too. And last but not least... In effect... Short the On Off Switch Wires... I would do this by un plugging them and finding a way to TEMPORALLY connect them.... Solder, another Slide on connector.... This Temp TEST will eliminate the switch.....

EVERY TEST I am suggesting is a TEMPORARY Troubleshooting TEST.... ALL JUMPERS will be removed after the TEST.... And when the On Off Switch is bypassed, un plugging the unit will be the primary method of turn it on and off....

And always UN PLUG the machine while working on the Power Systems.... YOU CAN GET KILLED doing this if you are not careful... So I warn YOU.... IF you are un familiar with working on Power Systems like this.... You are better off sending the machine in for repair....

Please don't get HURT or Burn Down you shop doing the tests....

Good Luck,

AL

[rickyz]

power supply from A machine worked for a while. it was in machine when the machine completely failed. The power supply from the B recon machine worked fine in the A machine so I think it's something other than the power supply. I also switched out the on/off switch from working machine and made no difference. is there something special in that switch? did a continuity test and switch tested ok. I crimped the connections just to be sure and even bypassed the switch to see if that was the problem... trading out parts is no problem for me, but i'm not that confident when it comes to the electronic side....

[chief2007]

Did you switch out the circuit board that is under the machine?

But the symptoms you describe point to the power supply.

A lot of times it just takes trading out parts until you find the bad one

[GrammaPam]

Thank you to all who have repsonded. I did not start this question but am having the same problem. This timely post has been very important to me.

Edit:
Should clarify, the power fluctuation part, not the shipping part. With two machine it seems there is always something (at least one something) wrong.

[mtylerfl]

The power supply worked fine with the A machine. that's whats weird, never had a power fluctuation problem before and it worked ok with small 15 minute carves. traded out on off switch too and made no difference. There were no thunderstorms or outlet problems so I am at a loss. Power went out when doing the antique chair picture frame project at about 30 percent into the job....weird....

I had an idea for something to try, but it probably has NOTHING to do with the problem. But, since you have nothing to lose, you may want to try this anyway...

1) Turn on the machine and Press "0" for "Options"
2) Press "5" for "User Options"
3) Press "2" for "Sleep After..."
4) Press the Green ENTER button until the Sleep After says <OFF>
5) Press the Red STOP button twice to exit out of the options menu
6) Do another test carve and see if the machine stays on through the entire project

If that works, it would surprise me, but if it were me I would at least try it.:)

[rickyz]

All I traded out was the power supply and the on/off switch... didn't feel confortable switching anything else out. I also didn't have any power fluctuation message with the A machine power supply... thought I had it fixed. It ran for about 30 percent of a project and just shut off. now power, no nothing. Very weird. I've had just about everything mechanical go bad at one time or another over the past five years. I'm interested to see what failed on this one. I do like the fact that this machine seems to run a lot quieter than the A machine even with the rock chuck which by the way I love. I just hope it doesn't cost a fortune to fix... I was hoping to buy the new software programs before this happened... oh well...hopefully my experience will help others when it gets figured out...

[rickyz]

I also didn't want to keep replacing parts because I needed at least one working machine since I have lots of orders right now that need to be filled...Hoping to have second one back so I can keep up with the demand for the holiday season...

[chief2007]

I hear ya on keeping a machine running, I got lucky and found a parts machine online.

Key components worked so I am lucky enough to have some spare parts I can use to troubleshoot with.

Hopefully all goes well with your orders and no other break downs until the backup machine is up and running

[mtylerfl]

... I also didn't have any power fluctuation message with the A machine power supply... thought I had it fixed...

So you are actually getting "Power Fluctuation" wording on the LCD display?

[chief2007]

Yes - The LCD will read "Power Fluctuation".

The machine it self sits in an idle mode until you restart it.

[mtylerfl]

Yes - The LCD will read "Power Fluctuation".

The machine it self sits in an idle mode until you restart it.

Al is probably on the right track...have you called LHR to troubleshoot with you over the phone, yet? They may be able to help you narrow it down.

[rickyz]

now that I've spent five hundred dollars to get my recon fixed, ups delivered it to the wrong location and now I don't have any idea what to do. ups is giving me the run around. another freaking headache that I really don't need right now... all I wanted was a second machine..guess that was too much to ask...

[ladjr]

now that I've spent five hundred dollars to get my recon fixed, ups delivered it to the wrong location and now I don't have any idea what to do. ups is giving me the run around. another freaking headache that I really don't need right now... all I wanted was a second machine..guess that was too much to ask...

Did you have LHR put a trace om it, are they the one that sent it.

[rickyz]

I need to call them tomorrow since I'm working today. Hopefully we can get this figured out..

[lynnfrwd]

UPS shows that it was delivered yesterday, but today shows that it is Out for Delivery.

[rickyz]

yep, very weird. but machine arrived yesterday. must have been a ups snafu. powered up just fine. haven't run a project yet so hopefully all is well...

[chief2007]

Maybe UPS got a call from the house the delivered your machine to, then ran back out and picked it up, then re delivered to you, lol

[chief2007]

Great news to hear! Looking forward to seeing many projects from the machine.